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Dusty Baker 2 posted:18 Armenian and 12 Azeri soldiers have been killed in the worst fighting in Nagorno-Karabakh in decades:
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Apr 2, 2016 23:08
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Dapper_Swindler posted:so they are playing both sides? Probably making sure Armenia plays along. Russia could always pull their troops out, or at least threaten Armenia with that happening. It sure looks like Armenia was strong-armed into joining their eurasian union too. I recall that the troubles in Ukraine started over signing the EU association treaty. e: and eurasian union hasn't been beneficial to them anyway. jonnypeh fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 23:09
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Gantolandon posted:It helped that until JPII died, no one really dared to stand against the bullshit of the Church. He was an immensely popular figure and both post-communists and liberals decided that trying to oppose the clergy is a foregone conclusion and tried to appease them instead. Absolutely. Every government post communism took a submissive position towards the church. They're all culpable.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:09
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steinrokkan posted:Not really, children are not full persons, but we understand them as both humans and potential persons. Thus they get the full protection afforded to a person. At what point does a mass of human cells make the transition from being a simple biological sample to being a child? Seman is a potential person. A fetus is a person when it is capable of being its own entity.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:10
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loving assholes ITT believing that women apparently get abortions for fun without having real, serious reasons.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:10
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Grouchio posted:And just a day after talking about a WW3-inducing crisis, damnit! Neither one of these countries is a major player, or connected to a major player through a NATO-style alliance.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:11
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sparatuvs posted:A fetus is a person when it is capable of being its own entity. What does it mean? Being able to live on its own?
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Apr 2, 2016 23:11
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Grouchio posted:And just a day after talking about a WW3-inducing crisis, damnit! I love your gimmick.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:12
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:loving assholes ITT believing that women apparently get abortions for fun without having real, serious reasons. Are you seriously suggesting that "not wanting to have children" is never, ever a reason for an abortion?
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Apr 2, 2016 23:12
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steinrokkan posted:Are you seriously suggesting that "not wanting to have children" is never, ever a reason for an abortion? Not wanting to have children because you can't support children and it would ruin your life is a good reason to have an abortion.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:14
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Lessons Learned From the Russo-Ukraine War  
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Apr 2, 2016 23:14
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steinrokkan posted:Are you seriously suggesting that "not wanting to have children" is never, ever a reason for an abortion? Holy poo poo.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:15
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steinrokkan posted:You are retarded and should have been aborted. Actually is, according to the laws in many countries, and by many people who claim to be against "abortion". steinrokkan posted:What does it mean? Being able to live on its own? That'd be a good cutoff, sure. steinrokkan posted:Are you seriously suggesting that "not wanting to have children" is never, ever a reason for an abortion? Are we supposed to find that to be a bad reason?
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Apr 2, 2016 23:15
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sparatuvs posted:Not wanting to have children because you can't support children and it would ruin your life is a good reason to have an abortion. Yes, that is one sub-category. But if we return to the original subject of abortion laws under Communism, the Leninist proposal of "women should not be slaves of reproduction" got overturned almost immediately when it turned out abortion rates basically annulated population growth even among population segments that were quite capable of keeping a child; so the new policy was to employ a commission that would decide on the medical and socio-economic impacts of the child being aborted. Now, this was obviously not optimal since the woman SHOULD be able to get an abortion for no reason other than not wanting to carry it to term with little consideration for economic or medical factors, but you need to recognize these cases do exist in order to assume an effective argumentative stance against the regressive conservatives. Pretending that these cases don't exist merely creates a discoursive vacuum for the conservatives to exploit by giving them free reign over the "frivolous abortions" argument.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:20
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Crowsbeak posted:There is adoption. I think it's wrong for a government to force you to go through 9 months of agony and an incredibly painful, potentially deadly procedure. ass struggle fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 23:20
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sparatuvs posted:Not wanting to have children because you can't support children and it would ruin your life is a good reason to have an abortion. There is adoption. Also while I am personally opposed to abortion I cannot support such a intrusive and untholaw like Polands also by corruption in the polish rcc I meant the land deals and their intolerance.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:21
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:18 Armenian and 12 Azeri soldiers have been killed in the worst fighting in Nagorno-Karabakh in decades: Wow. That's some vintage conflict right there, I was barely born the first time around! (Well the first time they weren't in USSR)
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Apr 2, 2016 23:26
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steinrokkan posted:Yes, that is one sub-category. But if we return to the original subject of abortion laws under Communism, the Leninist proposal of "women should not be slaves of reproduction" got overturned almost immediately when it turned out abortion rates basically annulated population growth even among population segments that were quite capable of keeping a child; so the new policy was to employ a commission that would decide on the medical and socio-economic impacts of the child being aborted. Now, this was obviously not optimal since the woman SHOULD be able to get an abortion for no reason other than not wanting to carry it to term with little consideration for economic or medical factors, but you need to recognize these cases do exist in order to assume an effective argumentative stance against the regressive conservatives. So there are underlying social problems that cause people to not want to bring children into the world. If you want your population to grow, fix these problems. High abortion rates are a symptom of societal decay, not a cause.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:28
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sparatuvs posted:So there are underlying social problems that cause people to not want to bring children into the world. If you want your population to grow, fix these problems. High abortion rates are a symptom of societal decay, not a cause. Tell that to Singapore.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:33
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sparatuvs posted:So there are underlying social problems that cause people to not want to bring children into the world. If you want your population to grow, fix these problems. High abortion rates are a symptom of societal decay, not a cause. I didn't say I want population to grow. I said you need to be able to defend your policy against the people who hold that view in order to prevail, or you'll be rolled back the way you currently see in AMerica.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:34
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steinrokkan posted:I didn't say I want population to grow. I said you need to be able to defend your policy against the people who hold that view in order to prevail, or you'll be rolled back the way you currently see in AMerica. If it's ""for the greater good" then the state should pay people to have children rather than force people to carry unwanted babies to term. Setting up a lottery where people will randomly be assigned community service because we prefer to not pay for the work to be done is arbitrary, unjust and lazy. edit: vvv I never claimed it was an argument against your position - I'm describing "the defense against the people who hold that view", to use your own words. Bates fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 23:49
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Anosmoman posted:If it's ""for the greater good" then the state should pay people to have children rather than force people to carry unwanted babies to term. Setting up a lottery where people will randomly be assigned community service because we prefer to not pay for the work to be done is arbitrary, unjust and lazy. I don't know how loud I need to shout out that I'm not in favour of a Foucalutesque greater good biopower population control. I guess it doesn't matter, people who can't be bothered to read full posts will react anyway.
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Apr 2, 2016 23:54
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steinrokkan posted:children are not full persons I don't know if you meant what you wrote but... um...
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Apr 3, 2016 01:08
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fishmech posted:Actually is, according to the laws in many countries, and by many people who claim to be against "abortion". Aside from that I just wanted to give you guys kudos for making Lucy Heartfilia mad at something other than Putin. Death to babies!
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Apr 3, 2016 01:11
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Valiantman posted:I don't know if you meant what you wrote but... um... They do not posses full legal subjectivity (personality). They can't vote, they can't start a business, they can't take care of themselves without their custodians.
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Apr 3, 2016 01:12
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Is this the best place to have general abortion debate?
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Apr 3, 2016 03:53
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Grouchio posted:I just read an alternate timeline somewhere in which a Russian-Estonian bar-room brawl started WW3 between NATO and Russia and the majority of the urban western world went up in smoke. Next loving year. Please don't tell me that was alternativehistory.com
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Apr 3, 2016 03:57
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Grouchio posted:In the utmost of seriousness, do I need to prepare for WW3 or other paranoid-filled poo poo? Or am I taking such a scenario too seriously? I get that you are young, but please understand that worldwide tensions are a fraction of what they once were. Americans and Russians once just accepted that humanity would end itself within their lifetime. Russia invading Azerbaijan won't start ww3, it'll just be another nail in the coffin of the Putin regime.
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Apr 3, 2016 05:54
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steinrokkan posted:They do not posses full legal subjectivity (personality). They can't vote, they can't start a business, they can't take care of themselves without their custodians. And yes that was from AH.com.
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Apr 3, 2016 06:53
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Grouchio posted:Which is exactly how the Brits and French viewed their Arab subjects during the mandate period. How is that relevant at all?
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Apr 3, 2016 07:20
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sparatuvs posted:
I assumed with the Russian rhetoric the other day that they were already involved in this. Both Russia and turkey had been agitating over the Armenia/Azerbaijan dispute. And suddenly there's fighting. One or both of them pulled the proxy war trigger. They already deep in this.
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Apr 3, 2016 07:22
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sparatuvs posted:How is that relevant at all?
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Apr 3, 2016 07:29
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Grouchio posted:It was a convergent observation. I hope you've invested in gold for the apocalypse happening tomorrow.
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Apr 3, 2016 07:39
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sparatuvs posted:Russia invading Azerbaijan won't start ww3, it'll just be another nail in the coffin of the Putin regime. Wish I shared your views re: coffins, but it looks like Putin keeps getting out of it before the nailing is quite done.
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Apr 3, 2016 07:49
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Grouchio posted:Which is exactly how the Brits and French viewed their Arab subjects during the mandate period. Stay out of FH. It is a place of insanity, paranoia and bad wank tls.
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Apr 3, 2016 09:21
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Mr. Nemo posted:Is this the best place to have general abortion debate? It is the best place for that. I don't think babies have minds ergo it's ok if they're tunred into dog food. Discuss
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Apr 3, 2016 09:25
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The OCCRP is promising to release a massive story at 8pm CET about corruption, money laundering, and offshore funds links to lots of different governments in Eastern Europe and elsewhere, in many cases going all the way to the top in those countries. The top guy at the OCCRP has been saying Putin's spokeperson Peskov should plan for a late night, a journalist in Ukraine has been talking about asking Porshenko's office some difficult questions, the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists is involved, and other countries being covered also include Azerbaijan and Serbia plus more.
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Apr 3, 2016 09:54
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My money's on every single governmental figure in the EE being paid by the Kremlin.
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Apr 3, 2016 10:06
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anilEhilated posted:My money's on every single governmental figure in the EE being paid by the Kremlin. My guess is they've figured out they're all laundering money from their governments budgets and through dodging business deals, but they've all used the same network to do it, and network has been busted open.
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Apr 3, 2016 10:11
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My friends in Karabakh are saying that this is definitely more than the usual spring fling between the two countries. Every April / May there's some border skirmishes where Azerbaijan tests the waters and people on both sides get shot, but apparently they decided to hit way harder than they have since the ceasefire and people are pretty spooked. I can't get in touch with one guy and I'm really worried about him and his family right now, since the news said some villages got mortared but no western sources have them named.  jonnypeh posted:Probably making sure Armenia plays along. Russia could always pull their troops out, or at least threaten Armenia with that happening. Like 40%+ of Armenian males work in Russia seasonally, the whole country loving loves Russia, and most Armenians are of the opinion that if Russia could just get their poo poo together then they'd happily reform the USSR with them. Nowhere in the former Soviet Union is nostalgia for that era stronger than in the shattered remnants of the once-prosperous Armenian economy. This is why they really do not get along with Georgia. Rime fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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