|
Stallion Cabana posted:These are like the same people who say that Joseph wasn't 'strong' or 'a good fighter'. Like every use of it he does is mediated through some sort of tool like his clackers or a hammer. Even when he uses it to punch Straits, it just blows out like his eye. Compared to Jonathan who exploded the gently caress out of Dio. And that's the whole point. Joseph isn't strong, he has little training and as such, relies on his head, tricks and tools to win fights and he's lot more interesting to watch because of that.
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2016 23:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 17:47 |
|
|
If this series were the kind to do power levels, Joseph would have a pretty low rating whereas Jonathan, Caesar and Lisa Lisa, just to name a few, would have a much higher rating. Joseph's mastery of Hamon is kind of piddly compared to most users, but his real strength is in his cleverness and pragmatism. I think Caesar even says as much before he takes him to Lisa Lisa for formal training.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2016 23:14
|
|
|
That's not how I saw it at all. Like with no training at all he was still pulling stuff like reflecting the Stingy Eyes or other Hamon tricks. I feel like that's an indication that, if anything, he's stronger then Johnathon, not weaker; even with only a little training, or no training, he was naturally doing the Ripple Breathing- even if not all the time, since Lisa Lisa put the mask on him, he was still able to summon the Ripple-, and he did beat Straights, even untrained. I had always assumed that we were supposed to take Joseph as being stronger then Johnathon but that the difference between Dio and the Pillarmen was on such a huge level that he needed his tricks and plans to bridge the gap. And yeah I realize there's no 'power levels' or anything dumb like that in the series and I'm not trying to like rank the Jojos Protagonists or Ripple Users in power, I was just viewing Joseph through a different lens.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
Joseph had more potential, but he wasn't the stronger Hamon user in part 2, exactly because he had no training or desire to train at all. But he was also the cleverest motherfucker, which made up for that throughout most of the series.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2016 23:20
|
|
|
Joseph started off on third thinking he hit a triple, appropriate for the grandson of a wealthy English family. Anyway, I don't know if "strong" would be my goto description of Joseph. Now the guy's obviously strong, he fights ancient evil with his fists and he's built like an ox. That isn't how he wins his fights, though, nor how he solves his problems. He always picks the clever solution, like crashing a plane to defeat hijackers, using magic tricks against opponents, or even asking his Egyptian fortune teller buddy for help instead of dragging his grandson out of a jail cell himself. So while you'd be nuts to call Joseph weak, calling him strong really doesn't get more than surface deep.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2016 23:31
|
|
|
RubberLuffy posted:
The entire reason he wins fights and survives is because he's a fuckin prick. That's what makes pt 2 fun? Watching him bluster his way through every loving thing and winning stuff he has absolutely no right to be winning.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2016 23:31
|
|
|
Stallion Cabana posted:That's not how I saw it at all. Like with no training at all he was still pulling stuff like reflecting the Stingy Eyes or other Hamon tricks. I feel like that's an indication that, if anything, he's stronger then Johnathon, not weaker; even with only a little training, or no training, he was naturally doing the Ripple Breathing- even if not all the time, since Lisa Lisa put the mask on him, he was still able to summon the Ripple-, and he did beat Straights, even untrained. I had always assumed that we were supposed to take Joseph as being stronger then Johnathon but that the difference between Dio and the Pillarmen was on such a huge level that he needed his tricks and plans to bridge the gap. I'm honestly not sure how Joseph got Hamon outside of being born with it, which still seems weird because it's a way of breathing you need to learn, but whatever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 00:04
|
|
|
Jonathan was incredibly strong and good with the Ripple after a week's training, without ever knowing the drat thing existed before. And he was crazy strong BEFORE it, too. Hell, he was still a threat with two holes blown in his neck and his energy draining. Jonathan's was clearly much stronger than Joseph, but was much more straightforward, while Joseph isn't as strong but compensated with being much more clever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 00:27
|
|
|
lisa lisa was so cool that her coolness rubbed off on him even though he never really knew her when growing up also joseph is fine as a character but literally his entire defining Thing is that opposed to jonathan who was really noble and honorable in everything and basically a living muscle saint who punched things with the power of sunlight he's kind of a weaselly rear end in a top hat who's smart and can more or less bullshit his way out of most situations. i don't really get the whole infatuation with him to the point where people act like araki is intentionally trying to ~sabotage~ him. he's being written as a vaguely believable character. out of all of them, joseph is basically the most likely to actually cheat on a spouse. jonathan would burst into flames if he ever entertained the thought, jotaro has already proven that he's more in love with the sea than other people, and josuke is already hooked up with his gay soulmate. like, it baffles me to no end that the people who say that joseph is their favorite want to actively make him worse by denying the actually interesting parts about him. part of the reason why he was a cool character back then was because he wasn't a clone of jonathan and he didn't just punch things to death.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 00:38
|
|
|
Joseph is my favorite because he's a lecherous rear end in a top hat that cheats all the time. How can Joseph be your favorite if not because of that, it makes no sense.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 00:42
|
|
|
Yeah there were a lot of people who complained that Part 3 made Joseph "stupid", but he was an idiot in Part 2. Being clever and quick-thinking in a crisis doesn't mean he's not an idiot in general.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 00:44
|
|
|
Joseph cheats at everything - fighting, gambling, dying, his wife.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 00:46
|
|
|
Funky Valentine posted:Joseph cheats at everything - fighting, gambling, dying, his wife. Videogames too! What an amazing JiJi.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 00:48
|
|
|
Joseph Joestar came back to life after his teenage grandson fought an immortal vampire that could stop time and his first though was to prank his grandson into thinking HE was the immortal vampire now, of course he cheats on his wife. Joseph Joestar is a loving prick.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 01:10
|
|
|
Moltrey posted:Joseph Joestar came back to life after his teenage grandson fought an immortal vampire that could stop time and his first though was to prank his grandson into thinking HE was the immortal vampire now, of course he cheats on his wife. Joseph Joestar is a loving prick. Suzie Q finds it hot, however.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 01:18
|
|
|
i watched that reaction video with all the people from last page and it was great if only because i could mostly only pick out the lady in the bottom right corner's voice and she caught on to tomoko being josuke's mom unlike a few of the others, but she also thinks that angelo is the main villain. also everyone's reaction to the kira bit at the beginning is amazing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 01:20
|
|
|
RubberLuffy posted:Yeah there were a lot of people who complained that Part 3 made Joseph "stupid", but he was an idiot in Part 2. Being clever and quick-thinking in a crisis doesn't mean he's not an idiot in general. Part 3 Joseph is kind of bad even at quick-thinking in a crisis, though. I attribute it to brain damage from the Lovers fight.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 06:15
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:Part 3 Joseph is kind of bad even at quick-thinking in a crisis, though. I attribute it to brain damage from the Lovers fight. Think about it though, it's been FIFTY YEARS since Battle Tendency, and people change a lot in that time. It's something done rarely in fiction, having age realistically affect a character's personality, but Araki really nails it here. Part 3 Joseph is in a narrative sense almost a different character; by age 69, the old man has had to settle down into a routine life, and is maybe even a little washed up. I'm sure this whole journey to Egypt must feel like Joseph reliving the glory days of uppercutting vampires to space, and he wants to go on one more big, globetrotting adventure with the young'uns. I also think part of him really wants Jotaro to think he's cool, and doesn't realize how much of a goofball he's often being in reality. I find Old-seph really endearing for this reason, he's really trying to live up to his younger self, and sometimes comes up a bit short, but it's even sweeter for it when he does get there. And that makes him all the more human and loveable. hoobajoo fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Apr 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 06:34
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:Part 3 Joseph is kind of bad even at quick-thinking in a crisis, though. I attribute it to brain damage from the Lovers fight. Getting a little slower on the uptake with age along with "I'm Not The Main Joestar In This Arc Anymore"-itis. Also, I thought he did incredibly well with Jotaro in the fight with Terrence, and he did figure out what Kakyoin was trying to say about Dio's Stand, and not to mention the Empress fight. I guess you could say he dropped the ball with Death 13 but that was mainly one of Kakyoin's development episodes and second, he just really loves kids, so that probably got in the way of clearer thinking. I can't even be mad about that because it's so endearing to me how "Joseph loves kids" became a thing for him and was probably part of his character development from part 2 to part 3. What's more surprising to me is that Avdol seemed to know more about a lot of Dio's Stand users than Kakyoin and Polnareff (you know, the guys who also worked for Dio) did, but I guess not knowing who else could be working for Dio or what their Stands were was already an established thing, aside from the Super Special Egyptian Gods Club (feat. Vanilla Ice) so, ehhh. Makes you think what sort of information Avdol had on him, aside from being a fortune teller. hoobajoo posted:Think about it though, it's been FIFTY YEARS since Battle Tendency, and people change a lot in that time. It's something done rarely in fiction, having age realistically affect a character's personality, but Araki really nails it here. Part 3 Joseph is in a narrative sense almost a different character; by age 69, the old man has had to settle down into a routine life, and is maybe even a little washed up. I'm sure this whole journey to Egypt must feel like Joseph reliving the glory days of uppercutting vampires to space, and he wants to go on one more big, globetrotting adventure with the young'uns. I also think part of him really wants Jotaro to think he's cool, and doesn't realize how much of a goofball he's often being in reality. I find Old-seph really endearing for this reason, he's really trying to live up to his younger self, and sometimes comes up a bit short, but it's even sweeter for it when he does get there. And that makes him all the more human and loveable. Basically this, plus the whole "I totally know how to ride camels you guys" and "Joseph screams on an escalator and embarrasses himself in public" scenes are Peak Joseph. Peak Part 2 Joseph, even.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 06:53
|
|
|
i really love ancient joseph in part 4 because you can kinda see how he's definitely being affected by age and chances are he feels kinda useless by that point, but the bit where he saves the baby is a+ because it's definitely in character for him
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 06:56
|
|
|
For all the poo poo I give Joseph for being a real fucker when he was 19, he is earnestly sorry for his situation with Josuke and Tomoko. He understands that seeing Tomoko after sixteen years would do more harm than good, and he has to live with that mistake and never seeing her again, but instead tries to establish some connection with his son and prove to his son that he's not some massive deadbeat. It's also easy to get the feeling before they meet that Josuke is has some kind of resentment towards Joseph about abandonimg them, but it reads to me as more of a "I've Gone My Entire Life Without Seeing My Dad And I'm Fine, Why Mess That Up Now, Why Any Of This" which is super realistic for anyone really, but also someone who's just lived a quiet life in the same town for ever. And once Josuke sees his dad is a pretty swell guy trying to do the best he can after his lovely mistakes, he gives him a chance and they pal around and take care of an invisible baby together.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 07:06
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:i really love ancient joseph in part 4 because you can kinda see how he's definitely being affected by age and chances are he feels kinda useless by that point, but the bit where he saves the baby is a+ because it's definitely in character for him You mean where he pretends to be affected by age.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 07:31
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:i really love ancient joseph in part 4 because you can kinda see how he's definitely being affected by age and chances are he feels kinda useless by that point, but the bit where he saves the baby is a+ because it's definitely in character for him One of the things I really like, and I know it's weird to say, "Wow, that's a very realistic reaction" about JoJo, of all things, but there really are a lot of realistic reactions to things, or just this very natural way for characters to grow and develop. I'm amazed at the level of character development that Joseph has gotten over time and with age. Even the retcons work on the characters because the retcons actually make sense for those characters. Of course Jotaro, consumed with the burden of having to rid the world of all traces of Dio, would leave behind a wife and daughter so they can't be traced to him. Joseph is exactly the type of guy to sleep around, and his guilt over that would shine a new light on him putting on a huge show about how awful Japan is and how he hates to be there. Of [i]course[//i] Dio would sleep around and leave a couple of women alive long enough to have kids. Hearing that Dio has a """"friend"""" seems strange, until you see how he interacts with him, and it was clearly meant to be a manipulative ploy until Dio started letting his guard down and becoming afraid because of that, proving once again that he's a completely broken person who's incapable of actual, healthy human interaction, no matter how much he would genuinely enjoy that sort of thing in any other context. Of course no one else seemed to know about Pucci; Dio would want to keep him safe and most of the Stand users working for him were pretty segmented anyway back in SDC. Plus, Pucci wasn't an "employee", but anyway, it was so surprising to me how JoJo's is actually very character-driven and everyone just feels so natural in their interactions with the world and each other. Even Joseph acting like a living cartoon character for a lot of part 2 felt like it was just him acting up or wanting attention, which comes from a very real place given his situation. Plus, 17-year-olds are completely different when they're in their sixties, and it's clear that Joseph dropped the whole "HAHA LOOK AT ME MOCKING YOU, LOL U MAD??" thing because he's a man in his sixties and it would be worrying if he didn't. Same with how Jotaro calmed down a lot when part 4 rolled around and tried to make more of an effort to let loved ones know that he actually cared about them. They both matured, even though Joseph is still a goofball at heart who collects comic books and listens to Weird Al and stuff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 08:10
|
|
|
Stairmaster posted:You mean where he pretends to be affected by age. I'm sure Joseph is really slowing down, but dude is definitely playing things up just because no one's going to call him on it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 17:15
|
|
|
If my unknown love child was discovered, I'd be senile too. "What? Glove wild??"
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 17:21
|
|
|
It's a super minor change but for some reason, Jotaro meets Josuke before school in the anime, but they're on the way home from school in the manga.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
It sucks to not be able mention that of the 36 Kars on Mars, one of them comes back and convinces Killer Queen to abandon Kira Kira (who has a crush on Lisa Lisa) and become his own stand.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 17:58
|
|
|
Unless the wiki is a massive liar and god I hope it's not....In Jorge Joestar, alternate Bruno's Stand is Stepmom and is a female version of Sticky Fingers that uses a needle and thread instead of zippers and alternate Mista's Stand is the same as Sex Pistols and named The Iron Ladies but instead of bullet demons, it's transgendered volley players Jorge Joestar owns
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 18:00
|
|
|
Josuke Higashikata posted:It sucks to not be able mention that of the 36 Kars on Mars, one of them comes back and convinces Killer Queen to abandon Kira Kira (who has a crush on Lisa Lisa) and become his own stand. Aw poo poo, it was Mars, wasn't it? I always mix it up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 18:00
|
|
|
Josuke Higashikata posted:It's a super minor change but for some reason, Jotaro meets Josuke before school in the anime, but they're on the way home from school in the manga. Angelo's crimes are also modified somewhat (the crimes mentioned in the manga would likely inspire a bit more outrage, though they go to further show how absolutely vile Angelo is). I think that the timeframe for Josuke/Jotaro is changed to the morning so that it spreads everything out a bit more, which makes a lot of sense. It's a little weird in the manga to have him basically go "here's this sick fucker wandering around, welp, see ya tomorrow" so the thing about the ceremony/being late forces an end to the conversation plus allows for a quick Koichi/Josuke conversation later in the afternoon. Tomoko/Grandpa exchange is drawn out a tiny bit more and ends on a slightly different note as a result. Grandpa hears something happening at the store instead of just wondering aloud about Josuke's whereabouts. e: this is as good a place as any to mention that the various "kakyoin is in part 4" joke art pieces that were floating around were apparently taken as a serious deal by people and there's minor outrage now, which I sort of feel bad about (Aurain is forbidden to say anything about this) but Kakyoin was... extremely dead and obviously extremely dead so I don't know what people were thinking on that one. People are way more sensitive about spoilery stuff with this arc than they were with SDC, I think it's that it's becoming way more popular but it makes things really tricky. Totally get spoiling major plot points (I'm doing the same myself elsewhere) but people getting yelled at for talking about Rohan on tumblr or whatever, who is shown in art, is... that's frustrating, I guess. Okuyasu Nijimura fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Apr 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 19:14
|
|
|
Ideally, I'd want everyone to be totally spoiler free for Part 4, like the level of not knowing Kira is a character, but that's just not possible as JoJo gets increasingly more popular and that's fine. I still want people to be astonished when he kills a middle schooler tho Also apparently a David Production animator saw the first key art of Part 4 Kakyoin and thought it was funny so that's cool
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 20:07
|
|
|
It's people's own responsibility to avoid spoilers for a 20 year old piece of media and while I tag out of courtesy and largely aim to not spoil people, I have zero sympathy for anyone who does get spoiled. It's a risk you run when you choose to discuss something ancient with a small but fervent following. I aint tagging poo poo on tumblr or whatever though. If your fervour for JoJo is such that you feel a great need to discuss it, you can use that time to read a chapter or two. Okuyasu Nijimura posted:(Aurain is forbidden to say anything about this) didn't even mention Crazy D punching holes in suckers as Kakyoin'ing them, which is the accepted term. I am looking forward to Crazy D extending his lead next week. Kakyoin, however, as always, sucks. Sorry.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 20:13
|
|
|
It's definitely more enjoyable to go into things blind for me, that's why I plan on avoiding JoJo threads on Fridays before I see things and obviously I know the manga.  . I really hope that stuff about, say, Okuyasu/Rohan at the end is kept well under wraps for newbies just like Kakyoin/Avdol/Iggy was last time for the most part. It's just extremely tricky with something where the actual manga is quite old comparatively and the fanbase keeps growing and growing. It's generally fine in confined spaces (me slipping up in the anime thread was just me being boneheaded on very little sleep, I obviously have no problem adhering to spoiler rules in there when I'm not being a dumbass) but in the wide open internet it's really hard to corral. It's weird to be in a position where I think "okay, I know I share art of every character and have shared tons of DIU stuff before without really using spoilers unless it's a major character death or major revelation, but do I now need to spoiler Fungami? Yukako? Kira?" Not to get too feel-goody here but there are fair reasons for people not reading the manga and still tons of folks who just plain don't even know how/where to read in spite of lots of PSAs (I see that in tags a lot, too, people saying 'okay where do you actually GO to read JoJo?'). So I want to be accommodating and welcoming to people because more people talking about a thing is infinitely better than a handful of us talking about the same subjects over and over and over. It's just tricky elsewhere when it's basically fair game with everything. Sorry Bad Seafood, hope none of that comes across as second guessing anything you're doing here because it's absolutely not, I think things are pretty carefully defined here so if you're actually thinking of tinkering with the rules I'm not quite sure how it'd work/if it's super worth it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 20:16
|
|
|
I mean we've all got spoiler avatars and so it's kind of hard to avoid any spoilers in that thread without just banning us all from it. Anyway, El Hefe posted:I'm glad there isn't any light side stuff filled with typical anime bullshit. I'm hoping this guy gets pissed during Part 4 and starts making GBS threads on it because I'd love for at least one person to melt down over the best thing Part 4 does Arsonist Daria fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Apr 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 20:20
|
|
|
I hate PSAs and people who tend to post them are insufferable. It's surprising that I don't. e: The existence of future JoJos/the fact they have stands isn't a spoiler IMO. I mean, hell, if you were watching the show as David intended on Friday, before the show even started it showed the splash image on the official site http://jojo-animation.com/ as the sponsor image and the commercial break showed Josuke, Yasuho, Joshuu and Soft and Wet. There's nothing in my avatar/gang tag that's really a spoiler by any real definition of the term. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Apr 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 20:20
|
|
|
Bonanza's kind of might be though. Not that I'm telling him to change it or ban it or anything because it's pretty disconnected over all. If there had actually been a Queen Song on the radio during the opening part of that first episode it would have been pretty sketchy though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
I love how much Yukako is the closes JoJo gets to Anime Romance and then swerves that fucker so hard, she starts torturing Koichi
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
Stallion Cabana posted:Bonanza's kind of might be though. Yeah, it's possibly the closest to spoilery, but it's also really goddamn good. Moltrey posted:I love how much Yukako is the closes JoJo gets to Anime Romance and then swerves that fucker so hard, she starts torturing Koichi  In the words of Araki, ero is inevitable. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Apr 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 20:28
|
|
|
Lumberjack Bonanza posted:
I'm hoping for the best. I think when people see that characters are fleshed out a lot more here so there's more depth and nuance it'll be more fun for people to see them doing weird poo poo. I mean, when you think about it, even in the midst of "that's filler!" discussions, with SDC people were still really entertained by the idea of everyone having stuff going on behind the scenes. Getting to actually see that this time around will most likely be a lot more enjoyable for people once they understand the rhythm of things. e: aurain do you have the link for that image elsewhere?
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 20:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 17:47 |
|
|
Oh my god 
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 20:31
|
|