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He means that 9/11 killed any support for Arabs and brown people in general.
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Mar 31, 2016 08:31
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hakimashou posted:Israel is our friend and the Palestinians aren't, especially post 9/11. I think we're all aware that Islamophobia and Israel being a "western-style democracy (not run by muslims)" are the reasons Israel gets to run an oppressive apartheid regime. You've made this post a billion times. Do you actually believe Islamophobia is a legitimate justification for gross human rights violations, or are you just dropping off some realpolitik hot takes?
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Mar 31, 2016 13:50
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The charges against the soldier who executed an already-incapacitated attacker have been dropped from "murder" to "manslaughter". Meanwhile, the person who filmed the shooting is now under investigation by the police; no reason has yet been given, but it's suspected to be due to right-wing allegations that he was in league with the terrorists and the whole thing was a set-up. Meanwhile, US Senator Patrick Leahy (D) and 10 Democratic House members have sent a letter to the State Department asking it to investigate Israel for extrajudicial killings and other human rights abuses that might trigger the "Leahy Law" which bars US aid to abusive regimes. Netanyahu's response, which basically amounted to "nuh-uh!", is unlikely to deter them, but I suspect the State Department is going to ignore it anyway. The letter was not a response to the killing, since it was written and dated to over a month ago, but the timing is certainly quite lucky.
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Mar 31, 2016 16:00
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Israeli law is as always quite pathetic and ambiguously phrased, I was looking for precedents demonstrating the distinction between murder and manslaughter here cause I figured it was really clear cut but turns out it's really pathetically stupid. Here's a case from 2006, the dude was convicted with Manslaughter after originally being indicted with murder:quote:Koresh passed next to Daslon and his friends when Daslon stared at him. Then Koresh asked Daslon "What are you looking at?" and punched his head, in response Daslon threw a beer bottle at Koresh which hit him in the forehead and wounded him. In the verdict the judge explained why the above merely constitutes manslaughter: "The defendant did not leave his house bearing a knife for the purpose of prowling for victims to murder, certainly not specifically for Daslon himself" This all sounds incredibly retarded to me.
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Mar 31, 2016 17:19
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I mean that case would probably be 2nd degree in the US; neither premeditated nor committed in the grips of an intense emotional state (said emotional state downgrade it to manslaughter). I'm not familiar at all with Israeli law, but if it doesn't differentiate based on the same criteria, that sounds like it makes sense.
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Mar 31, 2016 17:41
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So, apparently Manslaughter charges are also soon to be off the table, the military judge presiding the case Lt. Col Ronen Shor has decreed that the soldier may be released from custody and return to his unit in the decree he writes "The evidence is insufficient to determine whether the soldier genuinely feared that the terrorist was in possession of a bomb, it is possible that the soldier merely exceeded his own authority in his actions" ... "From the documentation it is apparent that there are certain elements in the vicinity who are warning the suspect that the terrorist might be wearing an explosive device". Some of you might recall the video I posted of the settler paramedics who stand next to the executioner and loudly proclaim that the alleged terrorist is wearing a bomb, they are obviously lying through their teeth as an IDF officer on the scene has been reported to have manually checked both alleged terrorists and confirmed that neither was carrying a bomb, in fact we know that only after he confirmed that there were no further threats he allowed the paramedics to move in on the scene and begin treating the wounded, so yeah, that's what the military judge is talking about, and apparently it's good enough for him.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:41
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fool_of_sound posted:I mean that case would probably be 2nd degree in the US; neither premeditated nor committed in the grips of an intense emotional state (said emotional state downgrade it to manslaughter). I'm not familiar at all with Israeli law, but if it doesn't differentiate based on the same criteria, that sounds like it makes sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_in_Israeli_law It would appear that you are correct, murder= US first degree murder(premeditated), manslaughter=US second degree (not-premeditated), and negligent killing would basically be the US manslaughter charge. The maximum sentences roughly line up as well. TROIKA CURES GREEK fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 23:38
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Main Paineframe posted:Meanwhile, US Senator Patrick Leahy (D) and 10 Democratic House members have sent a letter to the State Department asking it to investigate Israel for extrajudicial killings and other human rights abuses that might trigger the "Leahy Law" which bars US aid to abusive regimes. Netanyahu's response, which basically amounted to "nuh-uh!", is unlikely to deter them, but I suspect the State Department is going to ignore it anyway. The letter was not a response to the killing, since it was written and dated to over a month ago, but the timing is certainly quite lucky.
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Apr 1, 2016 01:31
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A couple dozen NY politicians have joined a push to have BDS supporting students at CUNY investigated and punished for racism
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Apr 1, 2016 03:03
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Real hurthling! posted:A couple dozen NY politicians have joined a push to have BDS supporting students at CUNY investigated and punished for racism Everything else about that aside, I didn't know you could be punished for racism. You can be judged, opposed, criticized, etc, for racism, but how is it a punishable offense, exactly?
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Apr 1, 2016 04:09
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Ultramega posted:The first sentence is not factual. While the US is in theory allied with both Israel and the PA, they're much closer to Israel, so it's an accurate reflection of the relationship between the three governments. US sentiment towards Palestinians has dropped dramatically in the past fifteen years per Pew and Gallup.
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Apr 1, 2016 04:27
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Ultramega posted:The first sentence is not factual. The second is but not in the sense you mean. In the same way the malaysian airliner that was destroyed, the tiananmen square massacre, and pretty much any other major news outbreak is bad for the palestinian's cause. It shifts the spotlight from gaza/the west bank and enables opportunistic decayed pieces of poo poo to give the OK on more and more expulsions and forced deportations. No, the second in exactly the sense I mean. It has nothing at all to do, even a little bit, with 'taking the spotlight off of it.' It's that pretty much the whole western world and all its friends, even its friends in the Arab world, are now very hostile to islamism of the kind espoused by the likes of HAMAS, islamic jihad, et al. Suicide bombers and "islamic resistance movements" and people wearing black masks shooting AK-47s in the air chanting Allahu Ackbar aren't going to garner much sympathy anymore, instead only hostility, even mortal hostility. Plus Israel has been able to say "see, this is what we've had to deal with, now you have to deal with it too, now you know where we are coming from."
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Apr 1, 2016 11:27
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emanresu tnuocca posted:So, apparently Manslaughter charges are also soon to be off the table, the military judge presiding the case Lt. Col Ronen Shor has decreed that the soldier may be released from custody and return to his unit in the decree he writes "The evidence is insufficient to determine whether the soldier genuinely feared that the terrorist was in possession of a bomb, it is possible that the soldier merely exceeded his own authority in his actions" ... "From the documentation it is apparent that there are certain elements in the vicinity who are warning the suspect that the terrorist might be wearing an explosive device". But seriously I'm a bit shocked that they think the video can be swept under the rug.
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Apr 1, 2016 13:04
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Chomskyan posted:The Leahy Law must be a real joke given all the money the US flagrantly sends to oppressive regimes When it comes to laws like this, someone (typically the State Department) has to make a determination that a situation violates that law. Typically, if the President doesn't want to cut aid, the State Department just sticks their fingers in their ears and pretends not to see any human rights abuses. It's just like what happened with al-Sisi's coup in Egypt - the US has a law barring aid to military coups that overthrow democracies, so the executive branch just refused to call it a "coup" in order to avoid triggering that restriction. emanresu tnuocca posted:So, apparently Manslaughter charges are also soon to be off the table, the military judge presiding the case Lt. Col Ronen Shor has decreed that the soldier may be released from custody and return to his unit in the decree he writes "The evidence is insufficient to determine whether the soldier genuinely feared that the terrorist was in possession of a bomb, it is possible that the soldier merely exceeded his own authority in his actions" ... "From the documentation it is apparent that there are certain elements in the vicinity who are warning the suspect that the terrorist might be wearing an explosive device". The paramedics are going to stick to that claim like glue, and not just for the soldier's sake - it's also an excuse for their own unethical conduct. If the attacker had been checked, then the medical personnel should have been actively treating him, not totally ignoring him while they attended to less-injured soldiers. Medical personnel on the scene are supposed to make decisions about who to treat first based on severity of injuries, chances of survival, and risk to medical personnel, without regards to the injured person's identity. If they were treating all soldiers before even beginning to look at the terrorists that would be unethical - and since that's exactly what the video shows, they have to insist that the terrorists hadn't been checked yet, because it's the only acceptable reason for helping walking wounded into the ambulance while an incapacitated man receives zero medical attention. quote:The video shows a multiple casualty incident. Arriving at the scene were at least two ambulances, one of which has the markings of an MDA ambulance stationed in the Jewish settlement inside Hebron. The second belongs to United Hatzalah. The medical personnel (who I’m assuming are the men with latex gloves on), are shown treating and putting into an ambulance a wounded soldier, who appears conscious, sitting up on his own on the stretcher, and who according to news reports was classified as moderately wounded at the scene, and later as lightly wounded at the hospital. There are two other wounded in the field, who according to the army were involved in stabbing the soldier. One of them, who is further away, is lying on the ground and appears to be bleeding from a gunshot wound to his head. In the video, we do not see the medical personnel approaching him in order to examine him or to declare him dead (was he even declared dead by somebody authorized to do so? Or did they simply assume he was dead?).
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Apr 1, 2016 14:09
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hakimashou posted:It has nothing at all to do, even a little bit, with 'taking the spotlight off of it.' http://mepeace.org/forum/topics/netanyahu-quote-from-1989 OK?
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Apr 1, 2016 14:38
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:Everything else about that aside, I didn't know you could be punished for racism. You can be judged, opposed, criticized, etc, for racism, but how is it a punishable offense, exactly? Students at colleges have a code of conduct
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Apr 1, 2016 19:52
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ariel my barren and dislocated hillsides are silvered by sweat. i'm a creature of droughts and thorns just like you; the tribe of judah has evolved into something only barely related my great-grandmother's species, all of us hardened by fear and anger into cornered animals and you in particular hardened into a monumental erection by the sight of my naked body. you crush whispering down on me. you cover me completely. you pound me into the sand where you were born. you grind me down so my particles can mingle with your grave dust. i slide your bare bones one by one into my cleft, which is red and slippery and tastes like roasted lamb fat. i am an anguished square. my oval office is so close to my rear end. inside my womb there's nothing but space and i beg you please, please arik, please fill me with your molten heirs, please pump into my hollows like a firehose, please fill me, please quench me. i want to brim with your cum like a cadbury creme egg. i want to reproduce you in flesh and blood, not just the sad quiet ghost children that you grant me in my dreams. ariel i want you to come with me into the twenty-first century, i want you holding my hand as we all spiral into that final endless drought that will scour our planet down to the bedrock. in one thousand years all our civilisations will have turned to dust, you and i and all of jerusalem will be dust together, and only then will our love bring the apocalyptic winds to life and sweep up all that dust into my, your, the jews', humanity's masterpiece: a velvety porous stone-coloured vagina that can be seen all the way from the moon. edited for grammar Avshalom fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 3, 2016 09:41
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Saw this on Mondoweiss: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/04/nyt-p...ic-stereotypes/ I'd like to quote it for the purpose of mild facebook trolling but the only source I can find it mondoweiss which unfortunately isn't conducive for my purposes, does anyone have access to the original article?
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Apr 3, 2016 12:52
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Saw this on Mondoweiss: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/04/nyt-p...ic-stereotypes/
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Apr 3, 2016 12:58
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Apr 3, 2016 13:05
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Why are you regularly reading a website that revels in anti-Semitic tropes?
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Apr 3, 2016 16:30
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I don't but I do follow their page on Facebook. Also I don't think they're antisemitic.
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Apr 3, 2016 16:50
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Not what I said. Weiss is both a fantastic writer and seriously mentally ill. He's obsessed with the notion of supposed Jewish power.
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Apr 3, 2016 17:33
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Kim Jong Il posted:Not what I said. Weiss is both a fantastic writer and seriously mentally ill. He's obsessed with the notion of supposed Jewish power. Very Soviet of you to treat an immoral belief like antisemitism as a mental illness.
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Apr 3, 2016 18:32
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No I really think Weiss is truly sick and not in a pejorative way, read his reporting about the Clintons from the 90s. What you're alleging though is the opposite of a Soviet belief. It's not about right and wrong. Stormfronters are sick and need help.
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Apr 3, 2016 19:01
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Can you provide some examples of what you mean re: Weiss? I am not saying you're wrong, I would just like to see the evidence.
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Apr 3, 2016 19:06
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http://mondoweiss.net/2011/07/my-response-to-dailykos-smear/ http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2014/03/16/is-anti-semitism-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-219278 http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2014/03/16/is-anti-semitism-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-218944 http://mondoweiss.net/2015/04/forgiving-anti-semites/ http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/response-washington-blogger/ http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-reminder-that-anti-semitism-has-no-place-in-debates-over-israel/259830/ Weiss is up there with Alison Weir, Gilad Atzmon, and Greta Berlin in being widely discredited by the anti-Zionist crowd.
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Apr 3, 2016 20:00
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I've never found Mondoweiss all that interesting, but they've done some good stuff, so this is a pretty disappointing article to read. Given how many non-Jews blanketly support Israel, this special attention on Jews in power just feels stupid. It's just a better written version of this poo poo:  It all seems to come down to encouraging this idea that it's okay to question someone who is Jewish on Israel, or at least to question than more than you would anyone else. edit: Like, what he is even trying to do with articles like this? http://mondoweiss.net/2008/02/hillarys-costly/ Xandu fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 3, 2016 21:35
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Kim Jong Il posted:No I really think Weiss is truly sick and not in a pejorative way, read his reporting about the Clintons from the 90s. Stormfronters are sick, it's BDS who are the real antisemites amirite
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Apr 3, 2016 21:47
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SyHopeful posted:Stormfronters are sick, it's BDS who are the real antisemites amirite At least he provided some significant examples? I think it was disingenuous to watch the immediate recoil from "nuhh oh uh no not THAT antisemitism it's just a suspect reaction to jews with power" but, the examples withstand.
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Apr 3, 2016 22:34
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Xandu posted:I've never found Mondoweiss all that interesting, but they've done some good stuff, so this is a pretty disappointing article to read. Given how many non-Jews blanketly support Israel, this special attention on Jews in power just feels stupid. It's just a better written version of this poo poo: What he's really arguing against there is something particular to his own upbringing. My experiences have been somewhat similar, though not the same. I was told many times throughout my childhood that we American Jews were widely oppressed and hated, that I would be badly discriminated against my whole life in every way because of my religion and last name, and that it was only a matter of time before all the Jews of America would be marched into concentration camps and only Israel (and the Second Amendment) would be able to protect me. And you know what? Now that I'm an adult, rather than a scared kid fearful of all non-Jews because of the persecution complex my parents force-fed me, it's still easy to get caught up in arguing against that belief, even though most people don't hold it. On top of that, the urge to generalize and assume many other American Jews had a similar experience is overwhelming, despite the lack of any data to back up the anecdote. That's why I normally don't bring it up (that, and the posters who try to portray everything as anti-semitic would haunt me forever). I mention it now because I see a lot of hallmarks of similar things in his writing - particularly the one you linked. He's putting a lot of emphasis on things like "hey, American Jews actually do have money, political power, and powerful corporate and government positions", but the way he's talking about it seems more like "we're not super oppressed like Dad told us we were, we actually do have the power to influence things" rather than the usual "Jews rule the world" horseshit.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:48
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I definitely get that vibe you're talking about and he makes that point clearly. But then he goes into stuff like this and he loses me.quote:reminder that you cannot honestly describethe formation of Middle East policy without acknowledging that Jews are principals in the establishment, and Jewish wealth is a significant factor in public life. and quote:He appointed two Jews to the Supreme Court, and his Middle East negotiating team was almost all Jewish. These sociocultural factors are of course significant in policymaking
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Apr 4, 2016 02:06
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That's extremely difficult to prove. The Israel lobby is so powerful that Bush I laughed at them, and they couldn't get support for Obama's Syria resolution. The fact is that they were never really that powerful, they just had two presidents in Clinton and Bush II who were very amenable to their position, and it looks like a third in Clinton II. Therefore, any claims like the ones from Mearsheimer or Weiss are so self-evidently false as to be laughable. And given the subject matter, that this is a gigantic trope that has existed throughout the ages, the subject is a loving third rail and should not be approached without the utmost care.
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Apr 4, 2016 02:06
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Really it isn't the Israeli lobby that has power its the Theocrat and Neocon lobby.
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Apr 4, 2016 02:09
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Ultramega posted:At least he provided some significant examples? I think it was disingenuous to watch the immediate recoil from "nuhh oh uh no not THAT antisemitism it's just a suspect reaction to jews with power" but, the examples withstand. I'm not at fault for anyone's misreading. My intentions and definition never changed. Anti-Semitism is a spectrum just like Zionism is a spectrum. You don't have to be Adolf Hitler to be an anti-Semite, ranting about Jewish power structures and international bankers will suffice. I was clearly accusing Weiss of the latter and not actually wanting to murder anyone. Just like anyone who doesn't think Israel should be immediately destroyed is a Zionist. Chomsky and Finkelstein are Zionists. SyHopeful posted:Stormfronters are sick, it's BDS who are the real antisemites amirite Anyone who holds prejudiced beliefs is sick. Stormfronters are essentially a non-entity though.
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Apr 4, 2016 02:11
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Crowsbeak posted:Really it isn't the Israeli lobby that has power its the Theocrat and Neocon lobby. No, American Third Way/Clintonian/DLC liberalism is generally extremely supportive of Israel and Zionism. Look at publications like the Atlantic, the New Republic, the NYT editorial board. Just like two weeks ago Roger Cohen wrote a hilarious op-ed in the NYT about how he stands with Zionism and screaming about the evil BDS anti-Semites. Substantive anti-Zionism is still very much a fringe left-wing position. Obama is probably close to as far left as you get among the American liberal establishment, and that's just because he has to personally deal with Nutty Yahoo on a daily basis icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Apr 4, 2016 |
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Apr 4, 2016 02:12
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Kim Jong Il posted:That's extremely difficult to prove. The Israel lobby is so powerful that Bush I laughed at them, and they couldn't get support for Obama's Syria resolution. The fact is that they were never really that powerful, they just had two presidents in Clinton and Bush II who were very amenable to their position, and it looks like a third in Clinton II. Therefore, any claims like the ones from Mearsheimer or Weiss are so self-evidently false as to be laughable. And given the subject matter, that this is a gigantic trope that has existed throughout the ages, the subject is a loving third rail and should not be approached without the utmost care. Are you joking? Under Obama, Israel has had a hilariously easy ride, no matter how many times Netanyahu and his government have spat in his face. The lobby made the Iran deal incredibly difficult for Obama and he still crops up at AIPAC podiums. That you think George Bush 'laughed' at the lobby is fine but doesn't speak at all to the current power of the lobby. Acting as though it's so ineffectual "because Syria" doesn't explain why the current Democrat frontrunner desperately talking about what she'll do for Israel and how naughty Palestinians are.
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Apr 4, 2016 08:16
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Apr 4, 2016 10:09
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If I was going to lean my forehead against a wall to, um, pray I guess? I would want a large, soft, furry hat too.
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Apr 4, 2016 15:08
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drat, Daniel
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Apr 4, 2016 15:56
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