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Log082 posted:We only need one more person to do early fleet battles, so get your botes out! We had 10 again, which was awesome. I was sucking for the two close battles, which was less awesome. Sorry, I made some bad positioning around some terrain and should've covered middle area rather than scouting their flank, as they doubled back and found our BB's after they came through the channel. I think I've got to setup a fleet battle commander set for DD, as during both close matches (or all 3) I was doing 1/4 speed and got spotted before I spotted them back, which I only notice when I see the BB fire start arcing up. I did finally get Kaspar Mass today though, only took 4+ months. I still don't have a commander with cunning (or it requires promotion to excellent, I can't recall), definitely not whichever is good (Lutjens?).
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Apr 2, 2016 21:19
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How many people suddenly finally got Kasper Mass this week because it seems like it's a lot.
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Apr 2, 2016 21:31
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Night10194 posted:It's especially easy to do against Germans. Lots of open deck real-estate on their fat piece of poo poo botes like the Tirpitz and Bismarck. It's funny you mention this because I've been surprised that the wehraboo ships get punked pretty hard if I manage to actually aim in well. But it's nice to improve my chances every opportunity.
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Apr 3, 2016 00:36
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Panfilo posted:Willys Lee looks really promising as a cruiser commander. Deadshot is sorta like the Cruiser equivalent of Naval Teuton and stacks nicely with MacMillan. I was looking over the various commander skills this morning. Willis Lee gives you a giant aim time boost which is the biggest thing about him. Put him on all your birds-eye boats. Log082 posted:Yeah. Japan isn't hard either. Americans are the toughest, because they're fast and relatively small targets. American BBs, small and fast?
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Apr 3, 2016 04:25
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I think it's more that American BBs' softspots are small and they have little open deck.
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Apr 3, 2016 04:28
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I think sometimes your shell hits a turret or something with extra armor, and bounces off a ship it'd normally have penetrated. I think this also happens when your shell goes over and hits a bit of superstructure. The US battleships mostly have their guns packed close together and the deck is full of superstructure so that would happen a lot. I don't know how the superstructure works, because you can hit it for full damage with a destroyer gun but battleship guns don't always do full damage on it.
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Apr 3, 2016 05:31
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Depends on how well they model fusing vs armor penetration. 5" AP shells would be far more likely to trigger their fuses when hitting superstructure compared to battleship AP rounds.
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Apr 3, 2016 08:34
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Apparently some people are getting butt hurt because they changed salvo mode on torpedoes to fire in a spread instead of a solid brick. I think it makes more sense and is actually more useful but according to some tryhards this takes away 'skill ' in the game  .
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Apr 3, 2016 14:47
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But it made salvo mode really useful now.
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Apr 3, 2016 14:49
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Night10194 posted:But it made salvo mode really useful now. I agree. If you're in a sub and there's an enemy DD turning past your bow you can quickly fire a spread likely to hit him so long as he's not in safety range.
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Apr 3, 2016 15:20
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Lol. I had an 18000 damage game in the Revenge where a pubby Northampton I dunked at the beginning and his Benson buddy (who came straight at me and didn't turn but insisted I couldn't have spotted him because he activated Mass after I already saw him) spent the whole match accusing me of cheating and yelling I'd lose my account and they screenshotted and reported it. They must be the kind who accuse dark judge of hacks instead of 
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Apr 3, 2016 15:57
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So I got my first carrier and am wondering what the must-have commanders are. Somebody also mentioned someone making DBs actually work well, would love to hear about that one.
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Apr 3, 2016 17:10
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Warbadger posted:So I got my first carrier and am wondering what the must-have commanders are. John Clarkson is a 4-star (he seems to be the first one anyone gets) who is really good at DB's. There are other commanders with those skills but require using qualification, so I assume they are talking about Clarkson. I use the 1/2 star commanders with decrease to fuel consumption, increase to dodge rate (2%?), and increase to speed of plane launch (the 10% one), and the 3-star commander that you get for level 5 CV. One of the 1/2 star commanders eventually gets an increase in plane scouting range, but requires using some qual. I'd still suggest using torp bombers, as they are vastly more useful against subs and BB's, and your limiting factor as a CV is how many planes/flights you can launch in a given time, and it's better to launch something that can hit most ships (and outright kill some with a couple hits). Purchase the torp bomber upgrade outright, and focus on subs at the lower tiers if BB's aren't readily visible. Subs move slowly underwater and are typically not near friendly ships, so they are much easier to hit and tend to die if you hit them even with 2 torpedoes.
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Apr 3, 2016 17:32
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If anyone has Hawkeye (+200 m spotting range for planes) use them. It makes a big difference. I think Spruance is the only one that doesn't need promotion to get it though, and he's a four star. One of the two stars adds something like 8% torpedo bomber damage if you promote him to three stars, I guess you could use him if you don't have anything better to do with the qualification.
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Apr 3, 2016 17:44
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I heard rapidly clicking is more effective with AA guns than just holding the mouse button down. Any truth to this? My Baltimore has 12 AA guns and I wouldn't mind melting planes faster than I already do.
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Apr 3, 2016 17:57
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Playing it more, the damage potential of the Agincourt seems about on par with other T5 BBs, it just has a shitload of cannons to do it with. It remains fun as hell.
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Apr 3, 2016 18:16
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Panfilo posted:I heard rapidly clicking is more effective with AA guns than just holding the mouse button down. Any truth to this? My Baltimore has 12 AA guns and I wouldn't mind melting planes faster than I already do. There's a little delay between firing when you hold the mouse button. If you keep clicking it'll fire one gun each time you click. It's the same with torpedoes, you can fire them a lot faster if you click. I'm not sure it would make enough difference to matter.
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Apr 3, 2016 18:47
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Panfilo posted:I heard rapidly clicking is more effective with AA guns than just holding the mouse button down. Any truth to this? My Baltimore has 12 AA guns and I wouldn't mind melting planes faster than I already do. I didn't realize you could hold it down to fire, but yeah you can fire AA guns really, really quick by rapidly clicking. It's not much quicker than holding it down, but on a Wyoming it is noticeable. The matchmaker changes w/ battle power seems to be making a lot more even matches, especially if both sides have groups or neither does. My ships I use for the daily events (on workdays) are in the 400+ range and I seem to always end up with a really lovely team and fighting till the end, barely pulling out wins. If I drag out a same tier but rarely used ship it's not so bad, but ever since the patch if I get in a Porter, Wyoming, or Nevada the matches are really hard. Definitely an overall good change but I think groups still cause issues. I haven't gone in to t6 and higher matches often (gently caress the Laforey) but T5 has changed dramatically.
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Apr 3, 2016 19:04
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James Garfield posted:There's a little delay between firing when you hold the mouse button. If you keep clicking it'll fire one gun each time you click. It's the same with torpedoes, you can fire them a lot faster if you click. Fadeaway was saying that it makes a big difference in DPS which got me wondering about it. They were also whining about people using mouse and keyboard macros to do stuff like firing all your AA guns near simultaneously or directing multiple squadrons at the same time.
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Apr 3, 2016 19:07
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Applied to goon fleet (as Jack Forge), my old fleet with my buddy was small, annoying, and lame. I'm mostly at V with 1 VI (myoko)
Jack Forge fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Apr 4, 2016 |
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Apr 4, 2016 03:00
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Matchmaker prevails once again!
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Apr 4, 2016 05:21
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The Yubari is still amazing good fun times.
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Apr 4, 2016 06:05
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While I know it's not going to change, I really dislike the whole Destroyer meta. Many matches are distilled down to whoever has more and better destroyers. The big reason the Laforey is imbalanced is because scouting is so critical in this game, and it massively overshadows everything else. Destroyers are a lot of fun for night battles and ASW but outside this it tends to ask far too much from pubbies. Smaller high tier matches get unpleasant when we have a HMAS wombat skippering our only DD while Sattinicom goes on 25,000 damage rampages in his DD. I wished that CLs played a bigger role because good luck getting much done in a Brooklyn outside of large casual games. Sometimes I actually really enjoy matches that are just battleships and cruisers because they tend to be close fights compared to games where one team loses their DD two minutes into the game and ends up losing by a landslide.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:15
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This has been my feeling as well. There is just too many critical parts to a dd. I mean, we have a ship that has the components for anti submarine warfare, but also has the best radar for some reason. How different would the games play if radar was swapped between dd and cruiser. A small buff to scout plane visual range would be nice as well.
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Apr 5, 2016 01:29
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I just unlocked the Baltimore after getting MvP on a respawn match in my New Orleans wherein I ran out of ammo again and I don't have the four point two million credits to buy it because I spent it all on EXP books for new captains 
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Apr 5, 2016 01:41
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Panfilo posted:While I know it's not going to change, I really dislike the whole Destroyer meta. Many matches are distilled down to whoever has more and better destroyers. The big reason the Laforey is imbalanced is because scouting is so critical in this game, and it massively overshadows everything else. I play a shitload of DDs as I find them to be by far the easiest thing to carry teams with and I agree. DDs should be hardest to spot because it's kinda important for them if they actually want to use torps, but not with them also being by far the best spotters in the game. DDs rule the spotting game to such an absurd degree while also ruling the anti-spotter game as the best option to kill both other DDs and subs. Doesn't even make much sense to give them the huge spotting distance given the larger, taller ships should "see" further both with the Mk I eyeball and RADAR. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 02:14
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The thing you have to remember is that DDs already don't have the longest spotting ranges. Even at tier 6, all the cruisers and almost all the battleships see farther than a Laforey. The difference is, DDs are a lot harder to spot, and people don't usually focus on spotting on their cruiser or battleship commanders. Scouting being so important is partly a function of the small games, too. It's not as bad having no good destroyers in a 12v12 match as in a 3v3. Destroyers are in a bit of a weird spot. They're a lot more influential than other ships (much easier to work around bad/outtiered battleships, Westley in a destroyer loses you in the game while Westley in a sub doesn't matter) but it'd be fairly easy to make them irrelevant with small changes. Torpedoes aren't a reliable way to win games after all, and killing submarines with a destroyer is really dangerous unless the sub is bad or your team has already won.
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Apr 5, 2016 03:09
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Groggy nard posted:I just unlocked the Baltimore after getting MvP on a respawn match in my New Orleans wherein I ran out of ammo again and I don't have the four point two million credits to buy it because I spent it all on EXP books for new captains EXP books? Warbadger posted:I play a shitload of DDs as I find them to be by far the easiest thing to carry teams with and I agree. DDs should be hardest to spot because it's kinda important for them if they actually want to use torps, but not with them also being by far the best spotters in the game. DDs rule the spotting game to such an absurd degree while also ruling the anti-spotter game as the best option to kill both other DDs and subs. I was discussing on the Steam forums and Fadeaway was pointing out that CLs typically do have better vision than DDs, but DDs have such better disguise they will always outspot bigger ships with current values (with some exceptions, such as the Tone). The salty part of me wants to make them as relevant as subs; an ok ship that can do decent in the right situation, but doesn't play a huge factor in the overall outcome of the game. Make CLs the primary scout and then a bunch of cruisers are suddenly useful and relevant in competitive play.
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Apr 5, 2016 03:40
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James Garfield posted:The thing you have to remember is that DDs already don't have the longest spotting ranges. Even at tier 6, all the cruisers and almost all the battleships see farther than a Laforey. The difference is, DDs are a lot harder to spot, and people don't usually focus on spotting on their cruiser or battleship commanders. It is technically true that the spotting range value is lower in most cases, but not universally and the difference is pretty small between cruisers and destroyers. While subs eat a massive reduction in spotting radius, destroyers are still up there tagging along just behind (or just ahead of) the cruisers and BBs (aside from the outliers in the British tree). U-IXC - 3915 Brooklyn - 5041m New Orleans - 5097 Ca Class - 4757 Somers - 4862 Kagero - 4862 Anshan - 5093 Scharnhost - 5153 Running a spotting crew in a CL and CA (as I do) still won't leave you in a good spot with DDs, I've run my perfect spotting crew on the Hipper and still had some DDs able to fire without being spotted and actually even run into problems spotting BBs before ebing spotted back - because cruisers have pretty bad camo. As you already say, the massive difference in disguise negates the small spotting range difference when it comes to DDs and then leaves you easily capable of spotting anything before it spots you. Throw in the DDs with higher than average spotting ranges and it's not even close. The larger ships really need to be more independent when it comes to spotting and shooting so that the game does not entirely revolve around a destroyer lighting somebody up and 50 shells landing on the poor guy while he's completely blind - repeated until a team loses or they both run out of DDs. I also disagree about the difficulty in killing subs, that's a function of DD and Sub player skill and aside from carriers there isn't a ship in the game better at killing them than DDs, particularly considering that many ships have zero or near-zero capability to sink the things when submerged. Edit: And DD skill absolutely swings games in 12v12 as with smaller games. Spotting decides every level of this game, more dudes in a game means the poo poo (CL/CA/BB/CV) you spot tends to die faster. As in low player count games if you can cockblock the other DDs trying to spot your team while you spot anything on theirs, you're going to shut them out. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 05:30
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Panfilo posted:While I know it's not going to change, I really dislike the whole Destroyer meta. Many matches are distilled down to whoever has more and better destroyers. The big reason the Laforey is imbalanced is because scouting is so critical in this game, and it massively overshadows everything else. Warbadger posted:Running a spotting crew in a CL and CA (as I do) still won't leave you in a good spot with DDs, I've run my perfect spotting crew on the Hipper and still had some DDs able to fire without being spotted and actually even run into problems spotting BBs before ebing spotted back - because cruisers have pretty bad camo. As you already say, the massive difference in disguise negates the small spotting range difference when it comes to DDs and then leaves you easily capable of spotting anything before it spots you. Throw in the DDs with higher than average spotting ranges and it's not even close. The larger ships really need to be more independent when it comes to spotting and shooting so that the game does not entirely revolve around a destroyer lighting somebody up and 50 shells landing on the poor guy while he's completely blind - repeated until a team loses or they both run out of DDs. Try making friends with a better destroyer and platooning with them instead. Satt isn't as good as you think he is, he just brings along competent capital ships that hit what he spots. The deal with hand-wringing about DDs is that I play solo games all the time in various classes, and in my experience there literally there are like 6 dangerous DD players in the entire playerbase. Anybody outside of those six are nothing special and you can honestly just outright kill them in any given situation. That, or kill all the enemy capital ships so they aren't spotting for anybody anymore. Thing is, the RNG is going to gently caress you occasionally. But getting a matchup like althor vs westley in DDs is basically the same thing as azder vs. wombat in BBs. It might be less noticable to lose to a hyper-competent BB, but the fact doesn't change that you don't get control over when the MM is going to give you an unwinnable game. quote:I also disagree about the difficulty in killing subs, that's a function of DD and Sub player skill and aside from carriers there isn't a ship in the game better at killing them than DDs, particularly considering that many ships have zero or near-zero capability to sink the things when submerged. That isn't what he's saying. Subs are a menace at high tiers because they can spot for their battleships. Going on a DC run puts you on a predictable path, and any live BB will ruin you. Groggy nard posted:I just unlocked the Baltimore after getting MvP on a respawn match in my New Orleans wherein I ran out of ammo again and I don't have the four point two million credits to buy it because I spent it all on EXP books for new captains Most captains are garbage so idk what you are doing with those books. Nobody needs 5% more depth charge damage BRUCE BRAD
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Apr 5, 2016 09:43
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When we do fleet battles, I feel like most of our decisive wins or losses were through the spotting of the DDs . the team that loses all their destroyers early on is at a big disadvantage especially in competitive modes where people are communicating. Even the best BB player is only as good as the people spotting for him; we can't shoot what we can't see!
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Apr 5, 2016 13:11
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I kinda agree the spotting/sub game puts too much on DDs, but it's not really a ship problem as it is a player problem. Like Werner said, if it wasn't always 3v3-5v5 at 7+, especially since over half of those games are a tryhard platoon on one side, it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it seems. You kinda come to the conclusion that high tiers isn't very fun outside of a platoon right now, especially in the Euro hours, because you are more often than not going to be fighting a group of competent people. Most of DIIN isn't remarkable, but 3 of them is better than 1 of you. It doesn't really matter what boat your in for that kinda game. Idk I find it a lot more rare to get owned in 4s and 5s by spotting than you do at 6+, and I think that's almost entirely on the players and not the boats. Mazz fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 14:01
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Eh, I don't need to bring a destroyer friend because I mostly play a DD. The Anshan can out spot the other DDs at T7 and I've been able to clown basically any fleet group out there. So long as I can kill the other DD(s) my retarded pubbies can almost always flatten the rest from a safe distance because (excepting carriers) it doesn't really matter how good they are, they'll never see me after the DD battle is over and they'll never see my team unless it intentionally plows into them. Edit: It's not even necessarily about losing DDs first, it's them being bullied far enough back that one side spots BBs/CAs and the other doesn't. Drop a DD to half health and he'll pull back to avoid getting sunk, giving you the opportunity to spot/sink a couple ships while keeping your own safe to kick off the cascade effect. Edit2: it's not about depth charging a sub. If he strays too far that does guarantee the kill, but normally it's about torping him. Get good with those and you can keep him under water dodging torps (or eating them) for as long as you need to. He won't be spotting much, can't pursue anything, and will eventually need to come up for you to murder. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 14:17
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Warbadger posted:Eh, I don't need to bring a destroyer friend because I mostly play a DD. The Anshan can out spot the other DDs at T7 and I've been able to clown basically any fleet group out there. So long as I can kill the other DD(s) my retarded pubbies can almost always flatten the rest from a safe distance because (excepting carriers) it doesn't really matter how good they are, they'll never see me after the DD battle is over and they'll never see my team unless it intentionally plows into them. Yeah, this is what I've experienced too. It also means that CLs are really not that helpful later on. We encountered a Fargo last night and all he managed to do is hoover up all our BB and CA shells and die ingloriously. Mazz posted:I kinda agree the spotting/sub game puts too much on DDs, but it's not really a ship problem as it is a player problem. Like Werner said, if it wasn't always 3v3-5v5 at 7+, especially since over half of those games are a tryhard platoon on one side, it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it seems. But then I'll take out my fubuki and get 9 kills. So it's hard for me to gauge my own skill and how much my play habits are working against the meta .
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Apr 5, 2016 15:42
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Panfilo posted:Yeah, this is what I've experienced too. It also means that CLs are really not that helpful later on. We encountered a Fargo last night and all he managed to do is hoover up all our BB and CA shells and die ingloriously. I have 100+ games at 7 now and I can pretty much guarantee that I am. If you platoon in those games with someone who can shoot reasonably the difficulty of winning drops significantly. If you are playing in Euro/CN hours like you are a lot you'll run into competent dj/DIIN/TaoG platoons that don't really need to play exceptionally to beat you alone. Example, me and Werner beat one of the better 4chan groups yesterday and there's no way in hell we could've without each other. I played close to 70 games in my Kagero with a grand total of 3 losses for awhile there, but in the last 20 to 90 I lost 12 to poo poo like Althor in a Akizuki or redbear/azder playing together all afternoon. I don't think giving CLs the spotting crown will solve anything though, they are too easy to hit when they do get spotted by planes and such. All it will do is make the game even more reliant on smoke and intelligent shooting, which is honestly just as bad outside of a platoon as dealing with a good DD. You can't count on some lovely Tirpitz any more than you can count on a lovely DD. Mazz fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 16:07
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Panfilo posted:When we do fleet battles, I feel like most of our decisive wins or losses were through the spotting of the DDs . the team that loses all their destroyers early on is at a big disadvantage especially in competitive modes where people are communicating. Even the best BB player is only as good as the people spotting for him; we can't shoot what we can't see! Competitive modes aren't the same as pubs. Even so, you have no idea how little spotting DDs can do when people use smoke intelligently. It is pretty much a fact at this point that goons have no idea how or when to use their smoke grenades. If anything unbalances gameplay, it's the fact that prem smoke is so much better and also comes in 5s. High-tier play consists almost entirely of a giant smoke cloud, whether you're in a DD or a BB, and frankly the DD isn't doing much in that environment. Warbadger posted:Eh, I don't need to bring a destroyer friend because I mostly play a DD. The Anshan can out spot the other DDs at T7 and I've been able to clown basically any fleet group out there. So long as I can kill the other DD(s) my retarded pubbies can almost always flatten the rest from a safe distance because (excepting carriers) it doesn't really matter how good they are, they'll never see me after the DD battle is over and they'll never see my team unless it intentionally plows into them. Again, you're mistaking bad play for some level of balance. The good sub players have something like 3 second dive times, and when they surface they use a ventilator and don't take very much damage before dropping back down again. Your blind torpedoes don't do poo poo to them.
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Apr 5, 2016 17:00
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I've started to feel like CAs are actually superior to BBs. It might just be a matter of personal preference, but it feels like their ability to accurately kill small craft that get lit up combined with their higher accuracy and reasonable ability to blast BBs through their decks makes them more flexible in just about the same role, plus if you do get spotted, the higher speed and better maneuverability will let you smoke and reset the engagement more easily than a BB.
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Apr 5, 2016 18:36
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Night10194 posted:I've started to feel like CAs are actually superior to BBs. It might just be a matter of personal preference, but it feels like their ability to accurately kill small craft that get lit up combined with their higher accuracy and reasonable ability to blast BBs through their decks makes them more flexible in just about the same role, plus if you do get spotted, the higher speed and better maneuverability will let you smoke and reset the engagement more easily than a BB. The boat I have the highest win rate in (with any decent number of games, anyway) is the Baltimore, for what it's worth. Then again, my lowest win rate by far is in the Surcouf, so that's not the most reliable metric.
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Apr 5, 2016 18:58
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Log082 posted:The boat I have the highest win rate in (with any decent number of games, anyway) is the Baltimore, for what it's worth. I really really like the Baltimore. I played a few 3v3s where each team had 1 DD and 2 CAs and they were much more fun. I found that I can pen a Tosa pretty reliably.
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Apr 5, 2016 22:40
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Here is a simple metric for 'is a bote good'. Does bote=American CA? If yes, bote is good. If no, uncertain.
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Apr 5, 2016 22:48
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