quote:

Oregon standoff defendant says he was just borrowing government truck to get groceries

Kenneth Medenbach, charged with federal conspiracy and theft of government property in the takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, waived his right to a lawyer Friday, citing his deeply held religious beliefs.

"I have a Holy Spirit that lives in me and will guide me through this. He's the creator of heaven and Earth. This is a small thing for him,'' Medenbach told the court. "This life is immaterial to a future life in heaven. It's small stuff.''

Medenbach, 62, signed off on the waiver, despite repeated efforts by U.S. District Judge Anna J. Brown to discourage him.

Brown said a lawyer is a defendant's advocate who helps a client understand the risks faced in court, the weight of evidence and legal ways to challenge the admission of evidence. A lawyer also would work on Medenbach's behalf in any negotiations with a prosecutor, she said.

"A lawyer is guaranteed through the Sixth Amendment for a very good reason,'' Brown said. "For the life of me I cannot understand why you would put yourself in the position of representing yourself in this very complicated case at this stage.''

In her 24 years handling criminal cases, Brown said she's "never once seen a person benefit'' from choosing to represent himself.

She even shared her experience of a jury trial she handled last week when a defendant represented himself and "innocently made mistakes'' during the trial that an experienced lawyer would have avoided.

But Medenbach wasn't swayed.

"As a pro se litigator, I'm not held to as strict standards as an attorney would be,'' Medenbach said.

The judge told him he was incorrect. She'd hold him to the same standards as the other lawyers in the case. "You can't expect to get a pass so to speak,'' Brown told him.

Medenbach said he had represented himself in the past in state court, but acknowledged he didn't win any of those cases. Yet, he added, "I was able to speak my mind.''

The judge made sure Medenbach recognized the potential maximum sentence on the charges he faced if convicted – six years for conspiring to impede federal officers at the wildlife refuge and 10 years for the theft of a government truck. She also asked if Medenbach had ever been diagnosed with a mental illness, and he replied that he hadn't.

Brown appointed attorney Matthew Schindler to be a "stand-by'' to help Medenbach if needed.

The judge denied Medenbach's motion to dismiss the indictment for lack of jurisdiction and ordered him to remain in custody pending trial.

"Why would we the people of the United States'' Medenbach asked, reading from prepared statements, "give the Judicial Department the power to tell We the People what the Constitution means?''

He argued that federal courts "continue to pervert'' the Constitution and that only states have the power to own public land. He contends the Malheur refuge is not federal land, and thus, the government couldn't prosecute him for having been there.

Schindler, granted permission by Medenbach to speak briefly on his behalf, urged the judge to allow Medenbach's release, arguing that the charges aren't that serious in the realm of cases that are heard in federal court.

"His point is not about armed conflict,'' Schindler said. "It's about our misinterpretations of the law.''

Medenbach was arrested Jan. 15 in the parking lot of a Safeway in Burns in a truck bearing federal government license plates. He's now charged with stealing a 2012 Ford pickup belonging to the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service from the refuge.

In court Friday, Medenbach explained: "The pickup truck was going to be brought right back. I drove to Burns to get groceries.''

Assistant U.S. Attorney Craig Gabriel noted that Medenbach was on pretrial release from a 2015 illegal camping case pending in federal court in Medford. He was ordered not to occupy federal land "and then he went to Malheur,'' Gabriel said.

When a pre-trial officer contacted Medenbach on Jan. 4, he lied about his location, claiming he was home, Gabriel said.

A group of militants led by Ammon Bundy, son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, led the refuge takeover Jan. 2. He said the group was protesting the return to prison of two local ranchers for burning federal land. He later demanded that the federal government put the refuge land in local control.

Bundy and other leaders of the 41-day occupation were arrested on a state highway north of Burns on Jan. 26. Occupation spokesman Robert "LaVoy" Finicum died in the confrontation when state police officers shot him as it appeared he was reaching for a loaded gun in his jacket pocket, according to state and federal law enforcement.

The judge agreed that Medenbach has shown he hasn't complied with the conditions of his release and ordered him to remain in custody.

CaptainSarcastic posted:

I want to get a nice American flag necktie but with a gold fringe all the way around it.

CaptainSarcastic posted:

One weird trick to keep morons away! SovCits hate it!

Jumpingmanjim posted:

https://twitter.com/maxoregonian/status/717067666301693956

Bombadilillo posted:

"Why would we the people of the United States'' Medenbach asked, reading from prepared statements, "give the Judicial Department the power to tell We the People what the Constitution means?''

I'm going to quote this forever.

loving gently caress, your Holy Constitution literally established the Judicial system to tell us what the constitution means.

Ape Has Killed Ape posted:

It's like someone standing in the railroad tracks holding up a yield sign and becoming increasingly confused when the train doesn't turn to avoid them.

Bombadilillo posted:

"Why would we the people of the United States'' Medenbach asked, reading from prepared statements, "give the Judicial Department the power to tell We the People what the Constitution means?''

I'm going to quote this forever.

loving gently caress, your Holy Constitution literally established the Judicial system to tell us what the constitution means.

It really is, "the constitution should mean, I get to do anything and get all the stuff, and your interpreting it wrong if you don't agree."

Dr. Phildo posted:

I've no idea if this has been addressed, but why would a guy named Robert go by the name lavoy? Does lavoy have some meaning in the states, like the duke or something? Ain't nothin wrong with going by Bobby if he were that way inclined and it sounds more Wild West than lavoy.

Bombadilillo posted:

"Why would we the people of the United States'' Medenbach asked, reading from prepared statements, "give the Judicial Department the power to tell We the People what the Constitution means?''

I'm going to quote this forever.

loving gently caress, your Holy Constitution literally established the Judicial system to tell us what the constitution means.

It really is, "the constitution should mean, I get to do anything and get all the stuff, and your interpreting it wrong if you don't agree."

fade5 posted:

Dude, this was a positive outcome. Your son very nearly ended up in a pine box in the middle of loving Nowhere, Oregon like Tarp Man did.

Seriously, be grateful your son is still alive, we were worried as gently caress he'd kill himself.

cumshitter posted:

Everything I've read about Fry's dad makes him seem like a reasonable guy in a bad situation. He was fully aware that his son was likely to commit suicide by cop and apparently really pissed off Fry with his common sense "Change things by voting and poo poo" attitude.

As someone who has/had crazy relatives I feel for the guy and good on him for being a cool dude willing to get actively involved in his kid's life to try and help him get back on his feet. The reporter tried to play it down but the fact that the judge adjourned while Fry Jr. still rambling on about his mystery illness is pretty lol.

Young Freud posted:

I would have love if the judge stopped the trial right then and there, grabbed a copy of the Constitution and ask Medenbach to recite Article 3 in it's entirety. poo poo, she could tell him to use his own stupid pocket Constitution.

Parallel Paraplegic posted:

Also just reading Article III again myself I forgot it said that the courts have power over maritime and admiralty cases, so much for being a boat :iamafag:

Mr. Nice! posted:

That's part of the jurisdictional argument of sovereigns. The federal courts only have jurisdiction over federal lands (of which only DC, territories, and military bases count) and in maritime cases. The way federal charges are brought against your average sovcit is because the federal courts are actually bringing an admiralty claim against them.

This is all bologna, though.

Parallel Paraplegic posted:

I mean even if you got him to actually read the parts of the constitution that aren't the first and second amendment he'd argue with you and not understand the words but be absolutely sure he had the right idea because the founding fathers were god-kings that understood him personally.

Like Article III says judges must have "good behavior" which clearly you do not have judge because you are ABANDONING YOUR DUTY TO WE THE PEOPLE.

Parallel Paraplegic posted:

Oh I thought they were saying they were a boat and the government acknowledged this because flag tassles but their boat is not in the US boat registry so they can't be tried or something, okay.

Gorilla Salad posted:

Or simply have told him in the strongest tone that he really needs to reconsider his desire to defend himself because he is an incredibly stupid and ignorant man and neither stupidity nor ignorance on his part constitutes any obligation on the court's part.


I know it's going to end up like:

Medenbach - well the constitution doesn't let you tell we the prople (sic) what the constitution means therefore I demand all charges be dropped.

Judge - actually it does, right here in Article 3. Request denied. Next item.

Medenbach - Uh, actually that's all I had. I didn't think I needed anything more.

Parallel Paraplegic posted:

Also just reading Article III again myself I forgot it said that the courts have power over maritime and admiralty cases, so much for being a boat :iamafag:

Young Freud posted:

Yeah, the Founding Fathers loving preempted that poo poo.

theflyingorc posted:

Does anyone have the paragraph that's the backbone of the weird boat thing? I know it involves the use of the word "vessel" and the fact that they have no idea how commas work.

Mr. Nice! posted:

The boat thing comes from the belief that the US government went bankrupt in 1933. Since then the US government was dissolved and is now just a swiss bank trust operating maritime contracts for all the foreign debtholders. There is no authorization in the US flag code for a flag with gold fringe and tassels on it. This means that any courtroom that has those is actually operating under admiralty law/military tribunal.

There are some, but not all, that have the fringe belief that your straw man is a surrogate for a vessel in these courts and any case against you is actually a case in rem against your strawman. Your birth (berth) certificate is the signing of your strawman into the maritime contract. You are delivered through the berth canal to the doc (dock) and that's enough to fall under vessel definition.


None of this makes sense because it's all nonsense, but this is what sovcits believe.

theflyingorc posted:

Nah, I'm familiar with the general ideas, but there's a very specific clause of a very specific document that is their "justification" for why they're boats, and it literally has to do with not understanding how commas function.

CaptainSarcastic posted:

Mr. Nice! posted:

Oh I'm not sure of that. I've only read it as an amalgamation of belief.

theflyingorc posted:

I've seen it from someone on this site before, but I'm having a really hard time finding it either in the constitution or the UCC. I'll keep digging.

Mr. Nice! posted:

I don't think it will be in the UCC.

theflyingorc posted:

They quote it all the time, because "REASONS". My favorite is that UK courts keep having people make arguments based on the UCC, a document written in the US.

It's really hard to decipher anything at all on sovereign websites, by the way:

http://www.dwmlc.com/

Mr. Nice! posted:

You are delivered through the berth canal to the doc (dock)