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steinrokkan posted:And even if it's a feature movie, it's still dubbed by the worst, cheapest actors possible. I suspect that recently TV stations started bringing drugged up hobos to the studio to do the work for free, because no other alternative makes sense. Movies in Poland are rarely dubbed - or at least were when I still watched TV. Usually a lector speaking over the original track is used.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:27
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steinrokkan posted:And even if it's a feature movie, it's still dubbed by the worst, cheapest actors possible. I suspect that recently TV stations started bringing drugged up hobos to the studio to do the work for free, because no other alternative makes sense. In Poland it's actually just one guy narrating the whole movie (it's called "juxtareading" I think?), at least on the freely available channels. Paid cable or satellite channels usually have subtitles for normal people. waitwhatno posted:Why do you think that they will stop with TV? DVD's, BR's and streaming services can be censored just as easily. They as in who? From what I understand, it was the station's dumb idea, not the movie publisher's or government policy?
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Apr 5, 2016 14:30
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Hey guise, in POland we have the trailer voiceover guy reading all the lines on tv, I don't know if you've heard.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:31
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grate deceiver posted:In Poland it's actually just one guy narrating the whole movie (it's called "juxtareading" I think?), at least on the freely available channels. Paid cable or satellite channels usually have subtitles for normal people. Actually, the station claims the movie has already been censored by Americans for their TV channels and they got it in such state.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:34
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Gantolandon posted:Actually, the station claims the movie has already been censored by Americans for their TV channels and they got it in such state. That's actually very probable and probably cheaper for Polsat to broadcast the cut version to boot.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:39
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grate deceiver posted:In Poland it's actually just one guy narrating the whole movie (it's called "juxtareading" I think?), at least on the freely available channels.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:41
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Gantolandon posted:Actually, the station claims the movie has already been censored by Americans for their TV channels and they got it in such state. Oh, so there's even less of a reason to care about this then. Probably just went with the cheaper/less effort option.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:41
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So how long was the censored cut of Wolf of Wallstreet, like 30 minutes? Gantolandon posted:Actually, the station claims the movie has already been censored by Americans for their TV channels and they got it in such state. 
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Apr 5, 2016 14:43
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Pierogi posted:There are no viable legal alternatives in Poland (Netflix is in its infancy, Polish VOD services are laughable). Buying/renting from places like iTunes or google play is too expensive. Piracy holds strong thanks to our comparatively lax piracy laws (only seeders can potentially be prosecuted). Eh, dirt cheap dvds are everywhere. And TVs are indeed adapting to that reality, right now they're 1/3 soap operas, 1/3 cooking shows and 1/3 weirdo semi-reality shows where you theoretically have a scripted plot like a police procedural or something, except starring (semi?-)amateurs who for some reason have to ad lib particulars of their dialogues. It's a really fascinating and bizarre genre of post-reality show budget television. Polsat is it's undisputed king, but pretty much everyone is churning is poo poo out in one form or another.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:45
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Pierogi posted:Thankfully in Poland we only have a clique of rather professional "lectors" who voice all characters in a given movie. None of the pseudo dubbing they have in Russia or dubbing done "right" (it's never right) as in Germany. I'd buy a TV for real if we switched to subtitles like in Scandinavia. If you have a decent TV (or decoder, I'm not sure, but I bet some of them can handle it) you can actually switch voice tracks and enable subtitles on at least some of the programming. I watched Lord of the Rings on TVN7 with subs this way. Also, not all dubbing is bad. There are some historical examples of tremendously good dubbing (like Polish versions of I, Claudius and Twelve Angry Men).
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Apr 5, 2016 14:51
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Tevery Best posted:Also, not all dubbing is bad. There are some historical examples of tremendously good dubbing (like Polish versions of I, Claudius and Twelve Angry Men). Dubbing was one of the few things that actually worked under Communism because the government run AV agencies could just point at actors from elite cadres and tell them to take this or this dubbing role. It wasn't for profit, and rewards / royalties were decided upon unilaterally be the authorities, and consequently some of the dubbed movies actually have better foley and voice overs than the originals. Today is the very opposite of that, though, the logical conclusion of a creative race to the bottom.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:58
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Lichtenstein posted:Eh, dirt cheap dvds are everywhere. And TVs are indeed adapting to that reality, right now they're 1/3 soap operas, 1/3 cooking shows and 1/3 weirdo semi-reality shows where you theoretically have a scripted plot like a police procedural or something, except starring (semi?-)amateurs who for some reason have to ad lib particulars of their dialogues. I wonder if this is a polish invention, I haven't heard of anything like this in other countries. They're getting weirdly specific as well, my mother religiously watches one about couples catching their nannies doing weird poo poo on hidden camera (again, it's semi-scripted starring complete amateurs doing their worst wooden 'acting' impressions).
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Apr 5, 2016 14:58
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Palpek posted:Yeah, it was fun finding out that this is actually pretty bizarre and that only Eastern Block countries do it. Basically every movie and series in Polish is like a nature documentary narrated by David Attenborough. Wait. In cinemas you still get dubbed films, right? Can't they show those on TV? It's cheaper to buy this version from your local distributor than making your own translation, too. And I am pretty sure cartoons on non-Polish channels like Cartoon Network or Disney are dubbed, so why not films? It's really strange considering video games as far as I know have pretty good voice acting in Polish. In Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus, by the way, even when shows or films on TV are not properly dubbed (i.e. you still can hear original voices), they have at least two actors for male and female/child characters and more often than not they attempt different voices. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bZnRFwHcWo Fantastic.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:04
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grate deceiver posted:I wonder if this is a polish invention, I haven't heard of anything like this in other countries. They're getting weirdly specific as well, my mother religiously watches one about couples catching their nannies doing weird poo poo on hidden camera (again, it's semi-scripted starring complete amateurs doing their worst wooden 'acting' impressions). I think I've seen something like that on Russian TV. There's one that is ostensibly a legal drama, but main characters are played by actual prosecutors and judges, while everyone involved in the case are amateur actors. There is a certain charm to it, I've got to say.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:08
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Paladinus posted:Wait. In cinemas you still get dubbed films, right? Can't they show those on TV? It's cheaper to buy this version from your local distributor than making your own translation, too. And I am pretty sure cartoons on non-Polish channels like Cartoon Network or Disney are dubbed, so why not films? It's really strange considering video games as far as I know have pretty good voice acting in Polish. Kids' movies do get dubbed, but anything else essentially hasn't been dubbed since the early 1980s at least. Cartoons are dubbed, Harry Potter was dubbed, I can't recall any examples of anything aimed at older audiences. Cinemas prefer subtitles. Aside from the fact that until at least 1995 most Polish movies had such terrible audio recording they had to be later redubbed in post.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:19
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Paladinus posted:Wait. In cinemas you still get dubbed films, right? Can't they show those on TV? It's cheaper to buy this version from your local distributor than making your own translation, too. And I am pretty sure cartoons on non-Polish channels like Cartoon Network or Disney are dubbed, so why not films? It's really strange considering video games as far as I know have pretty good voice acting in Polish. The voice-over dubbing is also meant to be as neutral in tone as possible. It's basically subtitles in audio form so giving different voices to men and women or voice modulation sounds strange. Weirdly some reality shows in Poland sometimes have separate male and female narrators but it's considered not as 'serious' as a well-known voice-over. It all jus comes down to what people are used to hearing.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:24
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Paladinus posted:I think I've seen something like that on Russian TV. There's one that is ostensibly a legal drama, but main characters are played by actual prosecutors and judges, while everyone involved in the case are amateur actors. There is a certain charm to it, I've got to say. Oh, Judge Judy and its knock-offs are a great example, except imagine every possible genre of a tv show done in this style. [edit] This includes some shows trying to pretend there's a degree of reality to them and some who just can't be bother to hire real actors and have dialogues written out. They just gather this bunch of randos and tell them "ok, in this scene you confront her about sleeping with your husband. Eventually she slaps you and runs away crying. Ok, ready, set, go." Lichtenstein fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 15:28
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Voiceover in Poland is going to die out with the older generation, my dad refuses to watch anything with subtitles, but anyone below 40 is probably used to reading subtitles from downloading terabytes of pirated movies. e: Though I have to admit that watching hardcore porn with a voiceover had a certain charm to it szary fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 15:36
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Unless PiS outlaws subtitles.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:38
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Lichtenstein posted:Oh, Judge Judy and its knock-offs are a great example, except imagine every possible genre of a tv show done in this style. It wasn't exactly like Judge Judy. Most of the show took place outside the courtroom with flashbacks, cuts to the investigation team, etc. But I suspect it was more scripted than what you describe. Is there a way for me to watch one of these Polish shows somehow?
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Apr 5, 2016 15:41
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Paladinus posted:Is there a way for me to watch one of these Polish shows somehow? http://player.pl Might be region locked, though
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Apr 5, 2016 15:45
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Any Polish names come up in the Panama cache?
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Apr 5, 2016 15:47
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Friendly Humour posted:Any Polish names come up in the Panama cache? Pawel Piskorski, a small-time has-been politician and complete slimeball, exactly the kind of person whose name I would expect to pop up in connection with such cases, and Mariusz Walter, businessman and founder of the TVN TV channel, so nobody really important and no particularly juicy information has been disclosed.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:53
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Paladinus posted:It wasn't exactly like Judge Judy. Most of the show took place outside the courtroom with flashbacks, cuts to the investigation team, etc. But I suspect it was more scripted than what you describe. Is there a way for me to watch one of these Polish shows somehow? Not sure how to get non-Polish subtitles or whatever, but Miłość na Bogato (Opulent Love) is absolutely amazing. W-11 Wydział Śledczy (CSI: W-11) is the originator of the genre, it's a cop procedural with real cops/civilian amateurs. Trudne Sprawy (Difficult Matters) is like people acting out Jerry Springer stories and it is pretty bonkers.
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Apr 5, 2016 17:00
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Lichtenstein posted:Not sure how to get non-Polish subtitles or whatever, but Miłość na Bogato (Opulent Love) is absolutely amazing. W-11 Wydział Śledczy (CSI: W-11) is the originator of the genre, it's a cop procedural with real cops/civilian amateurs. Trudne Sprawy (Difficult Matters) is like people acting out Jerry Springer stories and it is pretty bonkers. My favourite is Czyja Wina (Whose Fault?), which is essentially Judge Judy turned up to 12. It even has a styrofoam cage for rowdy trial participants and has nothing to do whatsoever with Polish legal procedures.
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Apr 5, 2016 17:11
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Palpek posted:Movies in cinemas are subtitled with maybe a few exceptions. Movies for children are dubbed so when an adult movie is dubbed it sounds bizarre for a Polish ear as the concept is considered as something that kids need. Which is probably why video games are dubbed. In the case of video games, at least originally, I think they were dubbed in large part to discourage sales of localized games outside Poland (since they were sold here at a reduced price).
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Apr 5, 2016 17:52
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NYT did a video on a Romanian translator who dubbed a ton of films illegally under communism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAxZ08YGzL0
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Apr 5, 2016 18:00
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Lichtenstein posted:Not sure how to get non-Polish subtitles or whatever, but Miłość na Bogato (Opulent Love) is absolutely amazing. W-11 Wydział Śledczy (CSI: W-11) is the originator of the genre, it's a cop procedural with real cops/civilian amateurs. Trudne Sprawy (Difficult Matters) is like people acting out Jerry Springer stories and it is pretty bonkers. I know enough Polish to understand most of it and so far it's amazing. Thanks!
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Apr 5, 2016 18:33
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Polish original programming is an absolute wasteland of trash and drivel and Polonized rip offs of shows like Master Chef and Pop Idol. The only Polish show I can remember enjoying at all was Rodzinka.pl and even that got shouty and annoying at times. Its basically just news and sports at my house if anything but since the election I don't even watch much news anymore.
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Apr 5, 2016 20:31
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A Pale Horse posted:Polish original programming is an absolute wasteland of trash and drivel and Polonized rip offs of shows like Master Chef and Pop Idol. The only Polish show I can remember enjoying at all was Rodzinka.pl and even that got shouty and annoying at times. Its basically just news and sports at my house if anything but since the election I don't even watch much news anymore. Sorry to disappoint you, but even this show is based on a Canadian original series.
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Apr 5, 2016 21:38
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Thanks to all those of you who came to the event today, apologies I couldn't stick around to talk but I was being dragged from one place to the next, which has become a regular feature of my life.
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Apr 5, 2016 21:57
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Paladinus posted:Sorry to disappoint you, but even this show is based on a Canadian original series. This does not surprise me. A wasteland I say!
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Apr 5, 2016 22:11
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szary posted:Pawel Piskorski, a small-time has-been politician and complete slimeball, exactly the kind of person whose name I would expect to pop up in connection with such cases, and Mariusz Walter, businessman and founder of the TVN TV channel, so nobody really important and no particularly juicy information has been disclosed. Walter is one of the top oligarchs in the country, I wouldn't say he's unimportant. Also partially responsible for the terrible state of TV we're discussing. As a side note, this discussion reminded me of something: I once heard an interesting lecture on how Polish soaps on all three major channels represent Polish society. I don't watch them, but as far as what I was told is true, it's a nice reflection of the divisions in how sections of society see themselves. TVN (largest private broadcaster, liberal-aligned) basically pretends we're a rich Western country. Soaps try and fail to imitate the trappings of American TV, and they mostly present educated, upper-middle-class people and tend to take place in major cities. Everything is shiny and chrome, people's cars, clothes and apartments are improbably nice, outdoor shots are done in wealthy districts. The stories are strictly personal and ardently avoid representing any social issues. It's basically the ideal vision of PO's sleek, modernized country where Things Work and people just live their lives in relative affluence. This wealthy Poland is completely unrecognizable to people outside of large cities. State TV, on the other hand, has a mission statement that makes their shows more grounded. The material conditions of the average Pole are represented much more faithfully, characters come from a variety of backgrounds, but it hews pretty close to conservative values. People are ultimately decent and authority figures like policemen and priests are presented in a positive way; there's lots of extended multigenerational families, traditional holidays and tight-knit communities. Social issues exist and can be solved by judicious application of traditional good morals. This quaint, provincial, patriotic Poland is completely unrecognizable to anyone born into the urban elites. Finally, there's Polsat. Ah, Polsat, the seedy underbelly of entertainment programming. They don't really make soaps, but mostly those trashy docudramas. Their viewership is mostly working-class people and they REALLY aim at the lowest common denominator. Most stories deal with exaggerated drama, crime and bald-faced exploitation. The appeal seems to be largely "welp at least my life isn't this lovely, let's look at some idiots and assholes". Their longest-running show, once extremely popular but thankfully no longer, is Swiat Wedlug Kiepskich: a crude sitcom in which everybody is poor, uneducated, stupid, degenerate, greedy and frequently drunk. This Poland is recognizable to everyone, but most of us would rather pretend it doesn't exist. And people wonder why our main cultural export is video games.
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Apr 5, 2016 23:01
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Brown Moses posted:Thanks to all those of you who came to the event today, apologies I couldn't stick around to talk but I was being dragged from one place to the next, which has become a regular feature of my life. I can imagine.
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Apr 5, 2016 23:05
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In the biggest scandal to surface in Romania this spring, it came out today that former Mossad spies were arrested for spying on anticorruption directorate chief Laura Kovesi http://www.romaniajournal.ro/dna-chief-laura-coruta-kovesi-spied-by-former-mossad-agents-two-of-them-arrested/ This could be connected with the recent indictment of a bunch of Israeli millionaires (and a billionaire) who, together with a Romanian prince and some politicians, were trying to illegally acquire for free in Romania a big piece of land worth hundreds of millions of euros
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Apr 6, 2016 09:21
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A Pale Horse posted:Polish original programming is an absolute wasteland of trash and drivel and Polonized rip offs of shows like Master Chef and Pop Idol. The only Polish show I can remember enjoying at all was Rodzinka.pl and even that got shouty and annoying at times. Its basically just news and sports at my house if anything but since the election I don't even watch much news anymore. my nigga have u tried Rolnik Szuka Żony?
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Apr 6, 2016 10:57
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grate deceiver posted:my nigga have u tried Rolnik Szuka Żony? Sadly also a licensed format 
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Apr 6, 2016 13:13
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Two years ago or so there was a TV show called "Dovolená v Protektorátu" (Holiday in The Protectorate) in which a picked family had to live in a house that was period-accurate for WWII, while they had to deal with actors pretending to be the Gestapo and poo poo re-enacting various events like raids and interrogations. Then they were supposed to introspectively reflect upon how it made them feel and share their newly acquired understanding of history with the world. It was as much of a shitshow farce as you would expect.
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Apr 6, 2016 13:20
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Guildencrantz posted:Sadly also a licensed format Oh, looks like it was released in pretty much every EU and english speaking country at some point. Welp, I'm dumb 
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Apr 6, 2016 13:32
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grate deceiver posted:my nigga have u tried Rolnik Szuka Żony?
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Apr 6, 2016 13:33
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