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e_angst posted:A $15 minimum wage is going to hurt more than it helps. It will increase unemployment in poor/rural areas How?? quote:and increase cost of living in urban areas How?? I mean I guess the rentier class could just put rents up but thats why rent controls are important too and the minimum wage increase isn't something you pass in a vacuum with no other policies
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Apr 6, 2016 00:48
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It's just not a good time at the moment.* Let's put a pin in it til after the election *not an actual true honest political opinion
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Apr 6, 2016 00:52
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No Mans Land posted:They hate themselves far more than they could hate anyone else. It's quite understandable how poor people in this country don't come off as very patriotic about it.
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Apr 6, 2016 01:17
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I'd sooner vote for Mickey mouse than a woman for the presidency.
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Apr 6, 2016 06:09
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I suppose my most honest and sincere opinion is that my support will go to whoever is most relaxed w/r/t copyright/'intellectual property' law.
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Apr 6, 2016 06:20
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Immortan posted:It's quite understandable how poor people in this country don't come off as very patriotic about it. I didn't really mean it
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Apr 6, 2016 06:22
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The Saurus posted:How?? The increase in labor costs is going to lead to businesses cutting hours, increasing automation, and hiring less people. This reduction in the amount of jobs out there will be especially harmful in areas that are already suffering higher unemployment. quote:How?? The other part of increasing labor costs and higher wages is inflation, which increases the cost of living. As I mentioned, there have been studies by economists that do show that the effects I've mentioned would be small-to-nill if the minimum wage was raised up to $12 (since it has been sitting so low for so long), but going to $15 (even delayed six years) is going to cause problems. The only question is just how severe the problems will be. quote:I mean I guess the rentier class could just put rents up but thats why rent controls are important too and the minimum wage increase isn't something you pass in a vacuum with no other policies And rent controls wouldn't help. Hell, they'd be adding gas to the fire. You end up creating a giant market distortion that would prevent developers/the dreaded "renter class" from building more housing supply, and an increasing population would have to all fit into a non-increasing number of dwellings. That's when you start to see black market/grey market poo poo like requests for huge amounts of key money to even be allowed to rent a place, or renters who pay the controlled rent but then sub-lease the unit for a non-controlled rent. And yea, that poo poo's illegal, but when housing is in short enough supply there will be enough people willing to pay the fees that it just means if you don't play along you aren't going to have a place to live. The fact that I'm having to even explain this fairly uncontroversial Econ 101-level stuff all of this ties back to my earlier post in this thread, about having to re-learn some tough lessons from the 60s/70s about when things can be socialized and when markets work best.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:50
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Lumpy the Cook posted:I suppose my most honest and sincere opinion is that my support will go to whoever is most relaxed w/r/t copyright/'intellectual property' law. No one is running on that platform, unfortunately.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:53
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e_angst posted:The increase in labor costs is going to lead to businesses cutting hours, increasing automation, and hiring less people. This reduction in the amount of jobs out there will be especially harmful in areas that are already suffering higher unemployment.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:55
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Powercrazy posted:Agreed. Let's just get rid of the minimum wage. After all the most important thing is "employment." I'm obviously not arguing for that. Hell, I'm not even arguing that the minimum wage shouldn't be raised. But policy has to strike a balance, and it is looking like $15 is going to be on the wrong side of the balance.
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Apr 6, 2016 18:14
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The Saurus posted:I'm a happy guy, you've gotta realise you're still one of the luckiest human beings who has ever lived. Yeah, their end goal is the destruction of the American middle class and the standard of living that we have attained here. That goal is in my mind inherently violent and hateful and is deserving of a proportional response. Also on the minimum wage and automation thing, I would think $12 instead of $15 would just delay things a bit. Fast food CEOs are already discussing moving to fully automated systems now and I'd imagine the tech is still pretty expensive and low volume. Once this really catches on it seems like the increased volumes and lower costs would result in a quick displacement of fast food workers whether they were being paid $12/hr or $15/hr. MaxxBot has issued a correction as of 18:48 on Apr 6, 2016 |
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Apr 6, 2016 18:40
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Honest question: what exactly is the right ideology if you're -against increasing wealth disparity -invested in preventing global climate change -invested in preserving biological habitats and biodiversity -against stricter copyright laws -against the ongoing war on human social interaction, the decimation of local community, and the increasing prevalence of antisocial attitudes and mindset (mostly because of the Internet, but there's a lot of different reasons) -for investing in renewable energy research -against 'free trade' policies, and economic/cultural globalism in general -against corporate stranglehold of creative outlets -in favor of preserving the sanctity of human creative endeavor and spirit -for establishing an environment of economic stability and social positivity Democrats and Republicans are both extremely out of the question. Conservatives too, though not quite as much. Liberals would have been a sensible option last decade but nowadays they're so bitter and embroiled in inconsequential culture war bullshit that they end up defending corporate interests and disregarding environmental and economic concerns. Does such an ideology even exist?
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Apr 6, 2016 18:49
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Lumpy the Cook posted:Honest question: what exactly is the right ideology if you're Do you know about the Situationists? http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/pub_contents/5 http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/pub_contents/4 Books by the two main guys, Raoul Vaneigem and Guy Debord
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Apr 6, 2016 18:57
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e_angst posted:I'm obviously not arguing for that. Hell, I'm not even arguing that the minimum wage shouldn't be raised. But policy has to strike a balance, and it is looking like $15 is going to be on the wrong side of the balance. Based on? The only industries that a higher minimum wage would affect the number of workers would be industries where labor was a significant part of the expenditure in lieu of capital. I can't really think of any industries where employment is the largest expenditure, and the existing employees are making minimum wage. Plus imo, any reduction in work-force would be insignificant, and there would be a higher net-gain to society by the people who stayed employed at a higher wage.
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Apr 6, 2016 19:11
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I will not vote for a Democratic Socialist for President because I do no live in the USA.
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Apr 7, 2016 18:28
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Lumpy the Cook posted:Honest question: what exactly is the right ideology if you're you should shop around for a leftist ideology which interests you because you aren't gonna get most of this from any currently established political actor in America
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Apr 7, 2016 18:45
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Lumpy the Cook posted:Honest question: what exactly is the right ideology if you're Be an anarchoprimitivist liek me and together we can spear ppl to death w/ our powerful cocks.
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Apr 7, 2016 22:56
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Lumpy the Cook posted:Honest question: what exactly is the right ideology if you're socialism. cheers
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Apr 7, 2016 23:19
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Homework Explainer posted:socialism. cheers but... socialism is a bad word, it scares me?
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Apr 8, 2016 00:46
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Lumpy the Cook posted:Honest question: what exactly is the right ideology if you're you are an anarcho-socialist. congrats on belonging of a small class of individuals who will never experience political victory
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Apr 8, 2016 16:46
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I'm all for Bernie Sanders, but I'll still vote for Hillary because any Republican candidate is going to be immeasurably worse for the country's future.
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Apr 8, 2016 17:26
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My honest opinion is that the democrats will only win simply due to the republicans having a brokered convention.
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Apr 8, 2016 22:20
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Honest opinions: - I think women are generally better leaders than men unless that woman acts like Margaret Thatcher - most white Democrats are really racist but keep it to themselves because they know they need black votes - I do think PC culture is a problem, but it's barely an issue in comparison to systemic discrimination and prejudice, and the fact that so many white dudes spend all their time talking about SJWs and safe spaces and no time at all talking about systemic oppression is pretty telling. - "libertarian" is code for "racist" - "get government out of marriage business" is code for "gays are gross" - identity politics and economic leftism don't need to be at odds because both are to some extent correct, and the people promoting conflict between the two movements deserve painful leukemia, but will instead live long, comfortable upper/middle class lives. - supporters of x political candidate are the worst - it does not matter who that candidate is; decent, good people don't fall in love with a candidate and blindly defend them; decent, reasonable voters support their candidate with deep reservations and with clear-eyed acknowledgment of the candidate's flaws. - If there were two people drowning, one a fundamentalist Christian, and the other a socialist accelerationist, and I only had the ability to save one, I'd save the fundie, and have a clear conscience. - I am a feminist, sort of, but in actuality I support the complete erosion of all gender roles, until gender is universally acknowledged to be a continuum. this will become easier when we can all transition gender at will due to advances in medical science. Then, "man" and "woman" will be hopelessly outdated terms. I am also hopeful that in the long run interracial relationships will become so common that there won't be any more white or black people, and everyone is mixed. but this will take several centuries. man I read way too much science fiction.  - the ideal system of government is rule by an advanced AI - nobody should have to work if they don't want to - leaves jobs for the people who do want to work - the above will be made possible by automation - I oppose the death penalty in 99% of cases, but for the most heinous crimes, it's alright. but we have to bring back the guillotine
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Apr 9, 2016 01:34
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Honestly and Truly my opinion, which I will almost immediately be made to regret posting: I'm concerned by the brand of progressive politics being peddled by the Sanders Campaign, due to the stylistic and rhetorical similarities I see between it and Common Sense Conservatism. I understand why it works, because simple answers to immensely complex problems are seductive. I understand why he uses it, because that philosophy brought GOP control to statehouses and congressional districts nationwide... but it also brought us "The government should run its budget like your family runs yours!" and Ivy League diplomas as political liabilities. The answers given to the Wall Street questions in the NYDN interview would have been embarrassing in August but excusable-because I don't believe he or his advisers had expected him to be the clear AntiHillary at that point. In April, it's just another example of Bernie being about the idea more than the execution. I'll concede that there are potential interpretations for his answers on breaking up the banks and prosecutions are implausible rather than impossible.... but I haven't seen the evidence in other detailed policy proposals or complex and wellcrafted legislation that justify giving him the benefit of the doubt. "Break up Big Banks", "Prosecute Wall Street", "Muslim Boots on the Ground", "Medicare for All", "Label GMOs" and "Free College" are all great slogans and it's obvious why they're popular. But they aren't plans. And at debates and now in editorial board interviews, when pressed to go deeper-there is no there there. Certainly, you can still be president as an ideas man, Bush proved that. But it falls on your cabinet and staff to get the actual details in... and Bush also proved how catastrophically that can turn with the wrong people. Given the frothing anger his base has towards anyone with even a Baconesque connection to Finance, Corporate Healthcare, Energy, or The Establishment, it leaves him with a narrow pool to recruit from. And his staffing choices thus far do not inspire confidence. One of the great visceral joys of this primary has been watching the GOP grapple with the fact they've degraded the standards of the party so significantly that "4% Growth!" and "We'll build a wall and make Mexico pay for it" no longer raise eyebrows for impracticality. I'm with Delong and a host of others that it's disheartening to see this level of support for the shallow proposals of a Democratic candidate.
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Apr 9, 2016 01:42
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Spatula City posted:Honest opinions: Ugh
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Apr 9, 2016 01:43
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Spatula City posted:- identity politics and economic leftism don't need to be at odds because both are to some extent correct, and the people promoting conflict between the two movements deserve painful leukemia, but will instead live long, comfortable upper/middle class lives. These two will always be at odds, I promise you.
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Apr 9, 2016 02:36
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Immortan posted:These two will always be at odds, I promise you. enjoy your leukemia, cursed upon you by a totally good person who totally doesn't have mental health problems!
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Apr 9, 2016 02:52
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Spatula City posted:Honest opinions: 
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Apr 9, 2016 17:07
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My opinion is that I haven't earned the right to all these opinions I have. You people have read all these books and taken all these classes and you STILL can't goddamn agree on Clinton vs. Sanders. I didn't take any classes on economics or political science, I haven't read any politics books at all and in fact never learned to read, and to sum up, I'm too afraid to vote in the primaries because what the gently caress do I know? My vote isn't an informed judgment call so much as a barometer for whose propaganda was most effective on the demographics I belong to. Here are my opinions about economics: gently caress you, pay me the gays: cool black people: sorry about all that the GOP: gently caress refugees: I for one want them all ted cruz's face: an imperfect disguise, looks suspiciously like a rubber Halloween mask government surveillance: leave me alone digital piracy: eat the rich labor laws: make them international somehow drugs: ok abortions: compulsory, please
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Apr 10, 2016 16:40
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Ragnar34 posted:economics: gently caress you, pay me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi9iCOsD8Sg "America's not a country, it's just a business."
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Apr 10, 2016 17:39
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Trumps Baby Hands posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi9iCOsD8Sg I heard that movie was poo poo, but that clip was pretty good.
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Apr 10, 2016 17:44
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Immortan posted:I heard that movie was poo poo, but that clip was pretty good. It was 'poo poo' in that general audiences were expecting a Brad-Pitt-shoot-em'-up, and instead were treated to a bitter meditation on greed and distant American corporatism, set against the background of the 2008 Presidential Election. My true and honest opinion? Americans, and the globalized world, are for the most part dumb, reactionary animals, barely removed from our simian ancestors, which is why the highest grossing films are jingoists superhero flicks and soulless disneyfied rehashes of A New Hope. Any film that requires more than two brain cells does "okay" at best, and since all of us visit the same pop-culture sites/forums we are insulated from the culture at large, and suffer under the illusion that most people are at least somewhat like us, instead of being barely conscious violent monkeys. That's why the rise of Trumpism was so confounding to the elites: everyone assumed that it would be apparent that the man was a joke and that folks would see through his childish banter, rather than vigorously nod along when he blabbered about the dangers of the Saracens and vaccines, ecstatic that someone finally "spoke for them".
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Apr 10, 2016 18:31
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Trumps Baby Hands posted:It was 'poo poo' in that general audiences were expecting a Brad-Pitt-shoot-em'-up, and instead were treated to a bitter meditation on greed and distant American corporatism, set against the background of the 2008 Presidential Election. Your posts are condescending and juvenile.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:11
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Trumps Baby Hands posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi9iCOsD8Sg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q01re0USHQ
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Apr 10, 2016 19:25
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Toadvine posted:Your posts are condescending and juvenile. That's not what your mom said last night
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Apr 10, 2016 19:37
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Trumps Baby Hands posted:It was 'poo poo' in that general audiences were expecting a Brad-Pitt-shoot-em'-up, and instead were treated to a bitter meditation on greed and distant American corporatism, set against the background of the 2008 Presidential Election. I suspect most Trump supporters are in on the joke, but also understand the joke enough to keep kayfabe.
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Apr 10, 2016 20:00
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my avatar is a considerate signal to people that can't stand autistic liberals to put me on ignore.
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Apr 11, 2016 02:05
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Best Giraffe posted:I suspect most Trump supporters are in on the joke, but also understand the joke enough to keep kayfabe. The people at the rallies are all dumb as gently caress. I saw a picture of one with a note saying that she supports Trump because Bernie Sanders is a socialist and needs to be stopped or something. The point is that she was stupid enough to think that Bernie Sanders could possibly be president.
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Apr 11, 2016 03:13
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Spatula City posted:my avatar is a considerate signal to people that can't stand autistic liberals to put me on ignore. you use your (claimed) disability as a shield against criticism, but your posts and the ideas you share through them aren't stupid because you're autistic, it's because you're just stupid
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Apr 11, 2016 04:07
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Ork of Fiction posted:The people at the rallies are all dumb as gently caress. I saw a picture of one with a note saying that she supports Trump because Bernie Sanders is a socialist and needs to be stopped or something. CLEARLY being ironic, no one is that stupid, even college students can only keep it up while they're stoned
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Apr 11, 2016 17:54
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