|
So let's talk about something industry-related that's not terrible. Both Monte Cook Games and Margaret Weis Productions recently announced that they're doing "Content Creator" programs that will function like the Dungeon Master's Guild. You can list your third-party Cypher System or Cortex products on DriveThru on special official DriveThru pages, and MTG/MWP will get a small cut in "royalties". Fred Hicks made an interesting post about how people are asking for something similar for Fate, and he discusses how Evil Hat isn't going to make that sort of storefront because "we already get those benefits (and have for years) because Fate is open licensed. We can support third party community created content without taking $ away from the creators." However, he also points out that not having a dedicated storefront like that makes it difficult to easily support third-party products. Rob Donahue did register http://drivethrufate.com/, but that's just a shortcut to DriveThru with "Fate" already put in the filter. I know we pointed out the potential issues with the DMG storefront (creators not getting as much of a payout, questions of ownership), but it's interesting to see other companies jumping on the bandwagon. Has the DMG actually been successful enough for other companies to copy?
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2016 18:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 21:25 |
|
|
Does D&D need to be successful for monty cook to copy it?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2016 19:09
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:I know we pointed out the potential issues with the DMG storefront (creators not getting as much of a payout, questions of ownership), but it's interesting to see other companies jumping on the bandwagon. Has the DMG actually been successful enough for other companies to copy? We'll probably never know, since companies don't share their financial details. I figure that for Monte Cook Games it's not a totally bad move: they have a lot of brand loyalty for the Cypher System, are putting together a package of extras (art, etc.) for people to use in their works, and their settings and system lend themselves to the 'bolt on new bits' approach where small-time creators can throw together a collection of character creation verbs or some monsters or a sub-dimension or something and get it up with minimal fuss. For MWP... not so sure. It reads like they're planning to release standalone Cortex Plus games soon, and want to use the storefront as a way to encourage third-party creators to get on board. And the precise details of the contracts haven't been released yet. MWP and MCG may not take as steep a cut as Wizards and they may do away with the terrible 'we now own all your stuff' clause. My money says they will and they won't, in that order, but I'd like to be proven wrong. Not least because I'm a big fan of Cortex Plus, and not a fan of the DMG-style contract. I'd prefer them to stay separate. Oh, and another factor I just thought of: Wizards has to deal with the OGL limiting their ability to restrict third-party creations. MWP don't, and I don't know what the deal is with MCG, so it might be that if you want to sell your third-party Cortex or Cypher stuff you have to go through the dedicated storefront.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
Yeah, that's something Fred does point out: Cypher and Cortex+ aren't "open" games in the way that Fate is, so you can't just make your own products and call it a day. There's no OGL/SRD situation like there is with Fate (or D&D, for that matter).
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2016 20:10
|
|
|
To be fair, Cortex+ does have a license you can publish your own Cortex+ games under. It's existed for three years, in fact. And I've never heard of anyone actually using it, because the details of the license scared everyone off who'd actually want to make something with it. I guess what I'm saying is, unless MWP changes the license or starts putting out a lot more stuff, their private storefront is going to flop really hard.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2016 21:54
|
|
|
Honestly, I don't think I've seen Cortex+ really discussed anywhere, let alone people wanting to make stuff for it. It's one of those systems I keep forgetting exists until someone brings it up. But there's enough demand for them to set up this program? I guess?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2016 21:59
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:Honestly, I don't think I've seen Cortex+ really discussed anywhere, let alone people wanting to make stuff for it. It's one of those systems I keep forgetting exists until someone brings it up. Setting up the program is also an attempt to create the demand, right? "I love the idea of having *~my unique campaign~* separated out from all the other crap people are making! Let me pick up the core book for this Cortex+, maybe see what else is out there"
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2016 22:01
|
|
|
I love Cortex Plus, but I use it for hacks and system replacements -- specifically I've hacked it for Exalted and Vampire, and I've got Rifts on the mental to-do list. But I couldn't sell any of those through their new storefront, so.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2016 22:02
|
|
|
Lurks With Wolves posted:I guess what I'm saying is, unless MWP changes the license or starts putting out a lot more stuff, their private storefront is going to flop really hard. I wouldn't say it's "a lot more", but they've got the Cortex Plus Heroic and Cortex Plus Action rulebooks as forthcoming products. Also, the linked article states that they will be changing the Cortex license: Margaret Weis Productions posted:[The Cortex Plus Creator Studio] program will take the place of MWP’s existing Cortex Plus Fan Product and Cortex Plus Official Licensed Product once it launches.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2016 22:23
|
|
|
It's more video game than tabletop, but the Baldur's Gate fandom shares a large userbase of tabletop gamers. So some folks are mad about the latest Baldur's Gate expansion. One of these reasons being very stupid, about an NPC being transgender. Ed Greenwood swooped in to weigh in on the issue, notably his sadness at seeing the negative reaction.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 04:08
|
|
|
Libertad! posted:It's more video game than tabletop, but the Baldur's Gate fandom shares a large userbase of tabletop gamers. I think those people are being overshadowed by the ones complaining that the expansion is a buggy crash-prone mess.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 04:41
|
|
|
Slimnoid posted:I think those people are being overshadowed by the ones complaining that the expansion is a buggy crash-prone mess. Given that I've only heard of the people complaining about the trans character and how SJWs have ruined Baldur's Gate, I'm not sure about that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 04:49
|
|
|
senrath posted:Given that I've only heard of the people complaining about the trans character and how SJWs have ruined Baldur's Gate, I'm not sure about that. That's how I heard about the game, but upon checking the Steam page the first 4-5 reviews are just about how it crashes a lot and that the writing isn't up to Bioware's level (  ).Loading more reviews sure shows...something, that's for sure.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 05:00
|
|
|
Slimnoid posted:I think those people are being overshadowed by the ones complaining that the expansion is a buggy crash-prone mess. The Steam reviews are a mess because you have to have actually bought the game to leave a review for it, which means people end up vote-brigading certain reviews for their their usefulness, etc. The GOG and metacritic reviews, which don't need ownership, are a steaming shitpile. Personally I've never clicked with any of the Infinity Engine games save Icewind Dale, but I bought Dragonspear out of anti-spite.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 05:13
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:Personally I've never clicked with any of the Infinity Engine games save Icewind Dale, but I bought Dragonspear out of anti-spite. Most cRPGs never clicked for me. Fallout, BG, Planescape: Torment, etc.--that kind of isometric style of RPGs was something I never played as a kid, so none of it holds any sense of nostalgia or importance for me. I honestly find them to be slow, plodding, boring affairs, and mostly a slog to get through in order to get to the so-called "good" stuff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 05:39
|
|
|
I'm mostly interested because I wouldn't mind seeing some new games going forward with some of the more interesting settings and, personally, see this as testing the waters. I bet it was pushed by the success of kickstarters relating to isometric roleplaying games such as Tides of Numenera and Pillars of Eternity. What can I say? I'm still praying for that Spelljammer game that will be ridiculous in all the right ways.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 05:44
|
|
|
I dis-- no, I hated Baldur's Gate. The writing was tropes-by-numbers, there was code to punish attempts at hit point scumming and save 'abuse', and D&D combat gets weird when it goes real-time. In the end, there was a degree of system mastery (or maybe just competence) that it asked for, that I wasn't willing to exercise. Damned if I didn't pre-order the sequel though. The Firewine Bridge and that goddamn sylph encounter can still eat an entire auditorium full of dicks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 05:51
|
|
|
senrath posted:Given that I've only heard of the people complaining about the trans character and how SJWs have ruined Baldur's Gate, I'm not sure about that. Given the whole Edwin/Edwina thing, they're about 30 years too late in complaining.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 05:54
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:Given the whole Edwin/Edwina thing, they're about 30 years too late in complaining. No, see, that was well written and served a purpose, this new one is poorly written and exists solely to shove their SJW agenda in your face 
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 05:57
|
|
|
senrath posted:No, see, that was well written and served a purpose, this new one is poorly written and exists solely to shove their SJW agenda in your face Well they're right. The game should have had a recruitable trans party-member instead of a one off who tells you their life story.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 06:10
|
|
|
I think the licensing rights for D&D are also a bit of a mess right now, which is why they had to make Siege of Dragonspear into a mid-quel DLC.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 06:37
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:I think the licensing rights for D&D are also a bit of a mess right now What, again?
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 06:51
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:Given the whole Edwin/Edwina thing, they're about 30 years too late in complaining. Well the first words out of Edwina's mouth are "This is bad!", I bet the reaction would have been a bit different if Edwin had liked his new body.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 06:52
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:What, again? Apparently they're trying to get in touch with Wizards (about Baldur's Gate III, potentially) and it just keeps falling through. At least, that's what BeamDog told Kotaku. It could be that there's something else going on to make things overly complicated. Slimnoid posted:I think those people are being overshadowed by the ones complaining that the expansion is a buggy crash-prone mess. I'm pretty leery of trusting that that's 100% true, though, just by going off user reviews, is the thing. Review brigaders have gotten a lot... more sophisticated in some ways, these past couple years. It's pretty common that, if they're pissed off that the new Star Wars novel has a gay character or whatever, they'll hash out a list of semi-reasonable-sounding complaints and just parrot those ad nauseam because they recognise there's a lot less public sympathy for "I had to read a novel where an ex Imperial officer mentioned liking men at one point." So, similarly, when a game gets targeted for this kind of thing and I see a bunch of reviews that are like "no, also it is soooo terrible for non-trans-character related reasons", it's... well, I'm not going to assume that it's all lies or whatever automatically. But it makes it hard to trust things like steam reviews when I know that there are groups out there specifically trying to tank this game's review score because there's a trans shopkeeper and someone who makes a stupid "actually it's about ethics in heroic adventuring" joke in it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 12:44
|
|
|
Gazetteer posted:Review brigaders have gotten a lot... more sophisticated in some ways, these past couple years. It's pretty common that, if they're pissed off that the new Star Wars novel has a gay character or whatever, they'll hash out a list of semi-reasonable-sounding complaints and just parrot those ad nauseam because they recognise there's a lot less public sympathy for "I had to read a novel where an ex Imperial officer mentioned liking men at one point." So, similarly, when a game gets targeted for this kind of thing and I see a bunch of reviews that are like "no, also it is soooo terrible for non-trans-character related reasons", it's... well, I'm not going to assume that it's all lies or whatever automatically. But it makes it hard to trust things like steam reviews when I know that there are groups out there specifically trying to tank this game's review score because there's a trans shopkeeper and someone who makes a stupid "actually it's about ethics in heroic adventuring" joke in it. Going through some of these reviews, the trick seems to be to just say the writing is generically bad without pointing out the transgendered character specifically, as cover for your score of 0 stars. VVVVVV I don't think the claims of the game being buggy are entirely illegitimate either, if only because one of the Beamdog devs, who posts in Games' Infinity Engine megathread, has posted about patch notes and confirmed bugs and whatnot. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Apr 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 12:50
|
|
|
I'm not convinced the issues are fabricated. Some people I trust have been saying ever since BG:EE and BG2:EE came out that all the content added by Beamdog was really bad and stood in stark contrast to the original content. I wouldn't be even remotely surprised if Beamdog making a full-length game would result in a complete mess. I mean I'd love to believe that there is an important battle to be fought here to save an innocent game from injustice, but it seems like just a bunch of vocal idiots giving free publicity to a bad game by virtue of their inability to say anything without screaming "EVIL SJWS ARE CRAMMING THEIR AGENDA INTO OUR BELOVED FANTASY NOSTALGIAFEST"
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 12:59
|
|
|
Bieeardo posted:I dis-- no, I hated Baldur's Gate. The writing was tropes-by-numbers, there was code to punish attempts at hit point scumming and save 'abuse', and D&D combat gets weird when it goes real-time. In the end, there was a degree of system mastery (or maybe just competence) that it asked for, that I wasn't willing to exercise. The new Enhanced Edition is much easier to abuse, and since the game is pre-d20 D&D it's actually pretty easy to steamroll everything as something other than a wizard, for once.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 13:22
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:Going through some of these reviews, the trick seems to be to just say the writing is generically bad without pointing out the transgendered character specifically, as cover for your score of 0 stars.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 14:23
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:I think the really forced foreshadowing part 2's villain counts as bad writing no matter how you cut it. I mean I like Irenicus and enjoy having more scenes for him, but taking a guy whose introduction was supposed to be a surprise and making him show up in prequels is wrong. Having Minsc say "Actually it's about ethics in heroic adventuring" and letting the line be bugged so it plays WAY more often than intended is extremely good, cool, and not at all annoying.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 16:31
|
|
|
Bedlamdan posted:Having Minsc say "Actually it's about ethics in heroic adventuring" and letting the line be bugged so it plays WAY more often than intended is extremely good, cool, and not at all annoying. I can't tell if that's a joke or not.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 16:33
|
|
|
If it annoys the people it is intended to annoy, I say play it all the time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 16:34
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:I can't tell if that's a joke or not. I can't even determine the precise point of that line and why Minsc of all characters would be the one saying it, so welcome aboard. Serf posted:If it annoys the people it is intended to annoy, I say play it all the time. Sure but, why imply that the flagship character of your franchise is in fact one of those people???
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 16:35
|
|
|
Bedlamdan posted:I can't even determine the precise point of that line and why Minsc of all characters would be the one saying it, so welcome aboard. I was more "I can't tell if he's joking because there's no way they'd actually have Minsc say that", but this is the world I'm living in now. What the gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 16:53
|
|
|
Minsc is Int 8 and Wis 6 and the designated whacky antics and comic relief dude. If anyone's going to spout off a catchphrase without considering the implications....
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 16:56
|
|
|
Scyther posted:I'm not convinced the issues are fabricated. Some people I trust have been saying ever since BG:EE and BG2:EE came out that all the content added by Beamdog was really bad and stood in stark contrast to the original content. I wouldn't be even remotely surprised if Beamdog making a full-length game would result in a complete mess.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 16:56
|
|
|
Bedlamdan posted:Sure but, why imply that the flagship character of your franchise is in fact one of those people??? The line has been used ironically by people who aren't shitstains pretty much ever since the shitstain crowd first used it unironically.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 16:57
|
|
|
Yeah, it seems like the joke is that Minsc is dumb. Much like the people who inspired the joke.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 16:58
|
|
|
It's on the level of a Scary Movie / Meet the Spartans-type "here is a thing that we referenced!" kind of "joke", but it's pretty obvious that they're taking the piss.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 16:59
|
|
|
Lemon-Lime posted:The line has been used ironically by people who aren't shitstains pretty much ever since the shitstain crowd first used it unironically. The thing is, Minsc is probably not someone who is capable of irony. Or even anything remotely approaching sarcasm. Serf posted:Yeah, it seems like the joke is that Minsc is dumb. Much like the people who inspired the joke. Yeah, but he's also Chaotic Good, ultra-nice, and probably the most well-known character in a well-regarded franchise, so it's kind of giving me mixed messages here. I'm willing to accept that this is just an example of piss-poor writing rather than any sort of malice, if only because that same writing quality was maintained throughout most of the enhanced editions and probably the original Baldur's Gate as well, if I'm feeling uncharitable.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 17:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 21:25 |
|
|
My favorite thing about Infinity Engine games has always been the dank memes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 17:05
|
|