Auspol April - Long Live the Glorious State of North Queensland

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol April - Long Live the Glorious State of North Queensland

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Zenithe: Feb 25, 2013; _{Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.}

LibertyCat posted:

I was listening to a "please give blood" plea on the radio this morning, and a thought occurred to me - why not (as long as it is medically ok) make Centrelink conditional on being a blood donor?

You could set up donation centers inside Centrelink offices and make it part of the regular appointment. If you're unemployed you're not exactly short of time like most workers. The Red Cross would save money on advertisements and mobile vans. It could save a heap of lives with no real downside.

Have you given blood? If you have, surely you know how easy it would be to get out of it right, just say you had sex with a bisexual guy once.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:47

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# ? May 23, 2024 12:51

bowmore: Oct 6, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

LibertyCat posted:

I was listening to a "please give blood" plea on the radio this morning, and a thought occurred to me - why not (as long as it is medically ok) make Centrelink conditional on being a blood donor?

You could set up donation centers inside Centrelink offices and make it part of the regular appointment. If you're unemployed you're not exactly short of time like most workers. The Red Cross would save money on advertisements and mobile vans. It could save a heap of lives with no real downside.

haha

you serious?

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:50

turdbucket: Oct 30, 2011

thatbastardken posted:

That's right. At least in Queensland and I presume nationally the Greens don't take donations other than from individuals.

I loving wish, that kind of money could buy seconds of airtime on local radio. The price of coherent ethics.

Yeah it varies a little by state, Vic allow Union donations and the ETU there supports them. NSW only allows individuals afaik and there is a donation cap.

Centrelink have been harassing me all week over a couple hundred dollars they believe I owe them from 2013. They believe I lied about my income when I reported as when they took the lump sum I earned over a financial year then divided it equally by fortnight, apparently I earned more than I said at the time. Possibly because I worked as a casual and worked more hours after I had been working there for a few weeks? No, apparently I just lied to them and worked the same hours every week for a year in hospitality.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:51

Anarchist Mae: Nov 5, 2009; by Reene; Lipstick Apathy

Anidav posted:

Nearly 300,000 dole payments suspended
https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/31288221/nearly-300-000-dole-payments-suspended/?cmp=st#page1
That video.
THAT VIDEO.

Requires flash. I guess I was spared the horror?

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:03

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Zenithe posted:

Have you given blood? If you have, surely you know how easy it would be to get out of it right, just say you had sex with a bisexual guy once.

Reasons I have been disallowed for giving blood include getting bitten by insects while in the garden, having blisters from running and having a small cut from something.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:04

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Measly Twerp posted:

Requires flash. I guess I was spared the horror?

They made a whole news segment about how dole bludgers are skipping job interviews to play golf.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:06

KennyTheFish: Jan 13, 2004

LibertyCat posted:

I was listening to a "please give blood" plea on the radio this morning, and a thought occurred to me - why not (as long as it is medically ok) make Centrelink conditional on being a blood donor?

You could set up donation centers inside Centrelink offices and make it part of the regular appointment. If you're unemployed you're not exactly short of time like most workers. The Red Cross would save money on advertisements and mobile vans. It could save a heap of lives with no real downside.

I am uncomfortable with coercion of any sort being applied to medical procedures.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:07

bowmore: Oct 6, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

LibertyCat is a vampire

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:09

asio: Nov 29, 2008; "Also Sprach Arnold Jacobs: A Developmental Guide for Brass Wind Musicians" refers to the mullet as an important tool for professional cornet playing and box smashing black and blood

EvilElmo posted:

Greens don't take donations?

Like many predictions put from the Greens, the idea that QLD tourism will completely die due to one mine is pretty laughable.

edit: But as always, since this mine is horrible and unpopular and everyone is against it and 90% of QLD will be out of work because of it. I look forward to the Greens romping it in at the next election in the QLD.

Or, they won't, because it won't have a major impact on the tourism industry or wider QLD employment. And further proof that QLD is a poo poo state will occur and the Greens won't win a seat.

Citation required.

Ok so lets make this simple:
Qld needs tourism to live
This mine will kill the reef which is most of where our tourism money comes from.
More jobs lost than gained as a result.

Qld Greens don't take corporate donations. The alp, however, does, e.g. that $40k from Macquarie bank, who negotiated the deal between mine and government. (And also ran one of their former employees for lord mayor)

This is why the alp approved the mine, despite the fact it is anti-worker. Are you still not understanding how corruption works?

Outside seq is awu territory, so uv can't go against awu's interests. Again, $ working as the real power.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:11

MaliciousOnion: Sep 23, 2009; Ignorance, the root of all evil

Other reasons you can't ~~give blood~~ get welfare:

You had a tattoo recently
You're pregnant or had a child recently
You have a serious heart condition
You're anaemic
You lived in the UK during the Mad Cow Disease scare
You've taken drugs recreationally
You've been overseas recently

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:15

MaliciousOnion: Sep 23, 2009; Ignorance, the root of all evil

also itt we discover LibertyCat thinks "gently caress the poors" is "no real downside".

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:18

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Make it compulsory for everyone, same with organ donation.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:23

GoldStandardConure: Jun 11, 2010; I have to kill fast
and mayflies too slow; Pillbug

LibertyCat posted:

I was listening to a "please give blood" plea on the radio this morning, and a thought occurred to me - why not (as long as it is medically ok) make Centrelink conditional on being a blood donor?

You could set up donation centers inside Centrelink offices and make it part of the regular appointment. If you're unemployed you're not exactly short of time like most workers. The Red Cross would save money on advertisements and mobile vans. It could save a heap of lives with no real downside.

What do you think of the plan that was floated in the USA a few years back, allowing prisoners to reduce their sentence by donating organs: eg a kidney and part of their liver?

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:23

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

gay picnic defence posted:

Industries that have collapsed under LNP rule:
Steel
Automotive
Shipping?
Research?

Anyone come up with anything else?

Just as well we went all in on safe bets like coal or we'd be in some real strife right now.

Research and Development

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:24

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

MaliciousOnion posted:

also itt we discover LibertyCat thinks "gently caress the poors" is "no real downside".

No, its just a lame troll so his little friends can have a giggle at the Young Liberal meetings, because god knows they have nothing else stretching endlessly in front of them.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:24

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

asio posted:

Ok so lets make this simple:
Qld needs tourism to live
This mine will kill the reef which is most of where our tourism money comes from.
More jobs lost than gained as a result.

That's a bit of a reach. The reef is being killed by climate change, of which that mine is just a small part.

Anyway, the mine most likely isn't going ahead as the price of coal at the moment does not justify spending billions on it. Not to mention the banks and other potential creditors have bailed out, and every year it doesn't go ahead sees the price of competing energy sources get even lower.

According to the bloke at The Age who has been all over it from the start, the reason QLD ALP went and approved it is because they want to look like they're pro-job, not because they expect it to go ahead.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:25

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

This seems topical

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/institute-of-public-affairs-the-think-tank-with-arms-everywhere-20160406-gnzlhq

quote:

Question. When is libertarianism not liberating? Answer: When it's really a feudalistic patriarchy, a trompe l'oeil of birds and flowers hiding a hardhead pile-driving agenda. In particular, when it's the low-profile but remarkably influential Institute of Public Affairs.

The IPA is usually described as a "radical libertarian think tank" but it's not libertarian, since its freedoms for the few spell oppression for the many. It's also not-thoughtful and so not-public it's almost clandestine.

This is no semantic thing. We're used to weasel words. Australian politics is like one of those World War II towns with its street signs turned awry to confuse the dreaded Hun. We all know that the Liberals are not liberal, the Nationals are not national, and the IPA is not some august public-interest watchdog stamped with official gravitas.

No, this is about who and what is driving the national political agenda.

Four months from election and the people scratch their heads. Why, again, are we destroying the Reef for some billionaire Indian coalminer? Why fund private schools and de-fund public ones? Above all, how did Australia go from a country where the poor occasionally stole the goose from the common to one where the rich are consistently rewarded for stealing the common from the goose? The answer, at least in part, appears to be the IPA.

The IPA has three member senators, David Leyonhjelm, Bob Day and James Paterson, and a fourth-in-waiting with ex-human rights commissioner Tim Wilson running in the lower house. It also has several state MPs and members with regular media gigs � like IPA senior fellow Chris Berg (The Drum and Fairfax) and board member Janet Albrechtsen, whose recent column in The Oz puffed Paterson and Wilson as "outstanding warrior[s] for the freedom cause". They all talk a lot about warriors � which is also what Abbott called Credlin.

But the IPA's real power is the charisma of wealth. At its 70th birthday gala dinner in 2013, Rupert Murdoch gave the keynote. NewsCorp's Andrew Bolt was MC and opposition leader Tony Abbott called the IPA "freedom's discerning friend". Gina Rinehart, George Pell, George Brandis and Alan Jones were guests.

I first encountered the IPA's passionate retrograde years ago, in a city-planning debate at ABC TV. I'd expected cut-and-thrust, but was amazed by the aggression and the import of IPA director Alan Moran's defence of car-dependent sprawl. Sprawl had been the world's bad guy for over a decade but Moran's fossil-based fury was intense.

Still, the IPA then seemed like harmless cranks. Now it seems they're all but writing government policy. Even that's not bad in itself. The wealthy are allowed their clubs, and governments must get ideas from somewhere. But when the private interest of Big Money consistently presents as public interest, it's time to worry. Big time.

We've heard much lately of illegal developer funding, which caused the NSW Electoral Commission to withhold $4.4 million from the NSW Liberals. But developers aren't the only group who might seek influence, and brown paper bags are not the only vehicle.

The IPA has long insisted NGOs should be transparent, but it's notoriously secretive about its own sources of money. (Executive director John Roskam says its donors get intimidated). But revealed sources include all the bad boys of Big International Money: media, oil, tobacco, genetics, energy and forestry. Who benefits from IPA policy? They do.

In 2012, the IPA published "Seventy-Five Radical Ideas to Transform Australia". I haven't done the math, but I'd say over a third are now law or seriously discussed.

The ideas included: privatise the CSIRO, abolish the Clean Energy Fund and Climate Change Department, cut company tax to 25 per cent, remove all barriers to international trade, end government funding to the arts and return income tax powers to the states.

They'd also: dismantle and sell the ABC, sell SBS, allow all banks to merge, eliminate media-ownership restrictions and abolish local content requirements. Repeal the mining tax, means-test Medicare, privatise Medibank, end compulsory food labelling, abolish plain-packaging for tobacco, allow opt-out from superannuation and voting, and repeal the Fair Work Act and section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act.

The IPA brands itself strongly around freedom. Free market, free media, free speech are its constant rhetoric. But freedom is not simple. Libertarianism turns on prioritising individual judgment � for everyone, not just the rule-making few. If one person's freedom is another person's cage, is it really freedom? Or just privilege?

The IPA's Freedom Watch blog, for example, calls itself a "civil liberties project" but insists, inter alia, on picketers' rights to confront desperate pregnant women outside clinics with aborted fetuses. Whose freedom?

On free speech the air is comparably murky. This week, the Fair Work Commission reinstated a Centrelink officer sacked for criticising his employer online. The man's criticisms, over some weeks, highlighted the unconscionable processing time of Austudy payments (tardiness for which I can personally vouch).

But regardless of veracity, if the IPA prevailed, the Fair Work Commission would vanish; the employer would have every freedom to gag but the employee would have no freedom to speak openly as a citizen.

Then there's racial vilification, a free-speech category beloved of the IPA. James Paterson told ABC radio recently that as senator he'd focus on sorting that "disgraceful" section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act.

Section 18C � under which Andrew Bolt was forced in 2011 to apologise and to which George Brandis then devoted much attention � makes it illegal to insult, humiliate or intimidate anyone because of race, colour or ethnicity. Freedom? Does the freedom to repudiate on racial lines even deserve the name?

As to press freedoms, the IPA would free Murdoch, or whoever is biggest on the block, to own every media outlet in the land. Sky or, well, Sky. He's free. We're in a blank-walled plasma box.

My advice? Ideas themselves are not dangerous, but when money and "ideas" hold hands, get suspicious. Then get cracking. Fight for our freedom to see the strings and who's at the pulling end.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:27

bowmore: Oct 6, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

open24hours posted:

Make it compulsory for everyone, same with organ donation.

what happens to people who can't? the stigma/discrimination increases

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:36

asio: Nov 29, 2008; "Also Sprach Arnold Jacobs: A Developmental Guide for Brass Wind Musicians" refers to the mullet as an important tool for professional cornet playing and box smashing black and blood

gay picnic defence posted:

That's a bit of a reach. The reef is being killed by climate change, of which that mine is just a small part.

Anyway, the mine most likely isn't going ahead as the price of coal at the moment does not justify spending billions on it. Not to mention the banks and other potential creditors have bailed out, and every year it doesn't go ahead sees the price of competing energy sources get even lower.

I reckon can-do could have made it happen. The alp is under the assumption that the mine won't be built anyway to save face - how insulting to the environmental, indigenous, community etc groups that fought the miners and helped bring it to this point. But the mines size is historically massive and the port would be sitting right on top of the reef. I don't think that's a stretch.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:40

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

They still have their blood taken/organs harvested, they just get chucked if they're no good.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:47

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

asio posted:

I reckon can-do could have made it happen. The alp is under the assumption that the mine won't be built anyway to save face - how insulting to the environmental, indigenous, community etc groups that fought the miners and helped bring it to this point. But the mines size is historically massive and the port would be sitting right on top of the reef. I don't think that's a stretch.

The reef is thousands of kilometers long, the port is maybe a couple of kilometers of coastline at best. I'm deadset against the projects too, but hyperbole isn't going to help.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:55

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

LibertyCat posted:

I was listening to a "please give blood" plea on the radio this morning, and a thought occurred to me - why not (as long as it is medically ok) make Centrelink conditional on being a blood donor?

You could set up donation centers inside Centrelink offices and make it part of the regular appointment. If you're unemployed you're not exactly short of time like most workers. The Red Cross would save money on advertisements and mobile vans. It could save a heap of lives with no real downside.

do you often think about subjecting the most vulnerable people in society to medical procedures against their will, herr mengele

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:11

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8wQAGDuSRA

Oh the pressure of money on weak-willed ALP shills.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:13

BCR: Jan 23, 2011

gay picnic defence posted:

The reef is thousands of kilometers long, the port is maybe a couple of kilometers of coastline at best. I'm deadset against the projects too, but hyperbole isn't going to help.

http://theconversation.com/coral-bleaching-taskforce-more-than-1-000-km-of-the-great-barrier-reef-has-bleached-57282

TLDR reef hosed, coal why

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:20

LibertyCat: Mar 5, 2016; by WE B Bourgeois

BBJoey posted:

do you often think about subjecting the most vulnerable people in society to medical procedures against their will, herr mengele

Yes clearly the lifesaving procedure known as blood donation (which has negligible downsides for the donator) is comparable to Nazi vivisection, deliberate infection with disease, limb amputations, mass murder of patients and other atrocities, you lunatic.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:23

LibertyCat: Mar 5, 2016; by WE B Bourgeois

GoldStandardConure posted:

What do you think of the plan that was floated in the USA a few years back, allowing prisoners to reduce their sentence by donating organs: eg a kidney and part of their liver?

The prison "industry" in the USA is very sick, so I'd vote no. On top of that it creates incentives to put more people in prison.

The Blood Donation idea would result in a huge surplus of Blood, so that wouldn't be a problem.

If a decent percentage of welfare recipients started lying on their medical history to get out of it I'd just take the blood anyway then discard the unusable stuff.

LibertyCat fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Apr 7, 2016

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:26

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Maybe then we could keep the blood god happy without having to go to war all the time.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:28

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

LibertyCat posted:

Yes clearly the lifesaving procedure known as blood donation (which has negligible downsides for the donator) is comparable to Nazi vivisection, deliberate infection with disease, limb amputations, mass murder of patients and other atrocities, you lunatic.

Your idea is a breach of ethics, so it actually won't happen.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:31

LibertyCat: Mar 5, 2016; by WE B Bourgeois

Recoome posted:

Your idea is a breach of ethics, so it actually won't happen.

Why is it ethically unsound?

It will save lives at minimal inconvenience to the donator. It's no more unethical than seatbelt laws.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:37

Zenithe: Feb 25, 2013; _{Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.}

LibertyCat posted:

Why is it ethically unsound?

Like the first thing you ever do with ethical procedures is get consent. You have no idea remotely what you are talking about.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:45

Sparticle: Oct 7, 2012

I shouldn't need consent to use a poor person as my personal blood bag.
:mediocre:

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:55

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

LibertyCat posted:

Why is it ethically unsound?

It will save lives at minimal inconvenience to the donator. It's no more unethical than seatbelt laws.

You literally have no idea what constitutes informed consent.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:55

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

LibertyCat posted:

The prison "industry" in the USA is very sick, so I'd vote no. On top of that it creates incentives to put more people in prison.

The Blood Donation idea would result in a huge surplus of Blood, so that wouldn't be a problem.

If a decent percentage of welfare recipients started lying on their medical history to get out of it I'd just take the blood anyway then discard the unusable stuff.

How would you know if they were lying? Wouldn't taking blood from millions of people and then discarding most of it be incredibly wasteful? Why do you love waste?

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:56

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Blood surpluses are actually a pretty big problem.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:58

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

As if the government has to go through an ethics review to pass laws.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:58

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

No you see it's voluntary to donate blood, but in order to get welfare you have to donate blood.

See how this is a problem?

# ? Apr 7, 2016 13:03

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

There are lots of things you have to do that you wouldn't ordinarily do to be eligible for welfare. I doubt the JSAs would complain about being given the power to stick a needle in someone.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 13:06

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

All those old retirees being sucked dry, trying to collect their pension. Actually yes I like the idea of sucking the life force from boomers.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 13:06

LibertyCat: Mar 5, 2016; by WE B Bourgeois

Skellybones posted:

How would you know if they were lying? Wouldn't taking blood from millions of people and then discarding most of it be incredibly wasteful? Why do you love waste?

I doubt you'd actually end up wasting much at all. There is no incentive to lie if the blood's gonna get taken anyway. You would only take enough blood for Australia's medical needs, you wouldn't just drain everyone then sell the surplus to China or something.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 13:06

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# ? May 23, 2024 12:51

Zenithe: Feb 25, 2013; _{Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.}

LibertyCat posted:

There is no incentive to lie if the blood's gonna get taken anyway.

Spite is a powerful incentive.

Are you just into forced pointless medical procedues? Is it too early to :godwin:

# ? Apr 7, 2016 13:08

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol April - Long Live the Glorious State of North Queensland

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