UKMT April 2016: David Cameron's P19 Form

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT April 2016: David Cameron's P19 Form

«‹›154 »

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxFqv1QDI3Q

# ? Apr 7, 2016 00:09

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 4, 2024 12:49

Trickjaw: Jun 23, 2005; Nadie puede dar lo que no tiene

Pissflaps posted:

Ugh. Working class people. Yuck.

In a shocking development I'm with flaps on this.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 00:26

StoneOfShame: Jul 28, 2013; This is the best kitchen ever.

Kokoro Wish posted:

It isn't just in norther dumps either. Even in developed cities like Newcastle is now, you get people using terms like "the chinky's" for chinese takeout places, or "the paki shop" for any corner store still. It's thankfully on the decline thanks to influxes of migrants and students, which makes certain sections of people salty. Sections of people who still frequent Working Men's Clubs.

I for one am disgusted that people still visit working men's clubs when there are perfectly good craft gin bars in most city centers these days.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 01:04

Kokoro Wish: Jul 23, 2007; Post? What post? Oh wow.
I had nothing to do with THAT.

Trickjaw posted:

In a shocking development I'm with flaps on this.

Try visiting one, one day. It's mostly full of old men, most of whom don't even work anymore, drinking IPA and talking the ear off the rare young' un they've managed to drag in there. I know, I'm one of the young 'uns that used to get dragged in there. The young people that actually stay there are mostly for the cheap alchohol and racism. I don't think I've heard as many UKIP bullshit talking points and racial slurrs, both directed at people like myself and not, as I did in Working Men's Clubs. Generalisation I'm sure, but I've been to a few, worked at a few, and they were all like that. I couldn't get out fast enough.

I've known, worked with and socialised with "working class people" aplenty, but the Working Men's Club lot are special.

Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Apr 7, 2016

# ? Apr 7, 2016 03:09

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HknZPWviG8

# ? Apr 7, 2016 06:23

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Kokoro Wish posted:

Try visiting one, one day. It's mostly full of old men, most of whom don't even work anymore, drinking IPA and talking the ear off the rare young' un they've managed to drag in there. I know, I'm one of the young 'uns that used to get dragged in there. The young people that actually stay there are mostly for the cheap alchohol and racism. I don't think I've heard as many UKIP bullshit talking points and racial slurrs, both directed at people like myself and not, as I did in Working Men's Clubs. Generalisation I'm sure, but I've been to a few, worked at a few, and they were all like that. I couldn't get out fast enough.

I've known, worked with and socialised with "working class people" aplenty, but the Working Men's Club lot are special.

Sounds like some of your best friends are working class.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 07:33

Zephro: Nov 23, 2000; I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...

Lord of the Llamas posted:

Anyway let us celebrate the fact that haranguing David Cameron about his family's tax affairs has taken over from sniping at Corbyn as the media's preferred sport!

Cameron's tax affairs are terrible for Corbyn. I think he'll have to resign over it.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 08:06

Kokoro Wish: Jul 23, 2007; Post? What post? Oh wow.
I had nothing to do with THAT.

Pissflaps posted:

Sounds like some of your best friends are working class.

Nah, just the Elf in my D&D group.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 08:34

TheCrushinator: May 19, 2008

Hi UKTM, long time lurker first time poster!

Apparently the Tories are worried about wrecking economies and livelihoods. Just not the UK's.

The Government should not stop British overseas territories acting as tax havens because it would destroy their livelihoods, a senior Conservative MP has argued.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 08:36

KayTee: May 5, 2012; Whachoodoin?

Kokoro Wish posted:

Nah, just the Elf in my D&D group.

They're /always/ elves...

# ? Apr 7, 2016 08:39

Renaissance Robot: Oct 10, 2010; Bite my furry metal ass

TheCrushinator posted:

Hi UKTM, long time lurker first time poster!

Apparently the Tories are worried about wrecking economies and livelihoods. Just not the UK's.

The Government should not stop British overseas territories acting as tax havens because it would destroy their livelihoods, a senior Conservative MP has argued.

Attempts to cut down household and industrial waste are bad, as this will inevitably lead to binmen losing their jobs.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 08:46

TheCrushinator: May 19, 2008

Renaissance Robot posted:

Attempts to cut down household and industrial waste are bad, as this will inevitably lead to binmen losing their jobs.

Yes, but they can be redeployed into the exciting new field of recycling center management, after an appropriate consultation period and tender process has taken place to outsource this vital service to the best possible vendor (someones oxbridge chum who needs to fatten his portfolio a bit).

# ? Apr 7, 2016 08:53

Lord of the Llamas: Jul 9, 2002; EULER'VE TO SEE IT VENN SOMEONE CALLS IT THE WRONG THING AND PROVOKES MY WRATH

Zephro posted:

Cameron's tax affairs are terrible for Corbyn. I think he'll have to resign over it.

Brutal. Yet another masterful political set piece from George Osborne.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 09:06

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Here we go.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0e7c0a20-fc17-11e5-b5f5-070dca6d0a0d.html#axzz457uMXV4V

quote:

David Cameron personally intervened in 2013 to weaken an EU drive to reveal the beneficiaries of trusts, creating a possible loophole that other European nations warned could be exploited by tax evaders.

The disclosure of the prime minister�s resistance to opening up trusts to full scrutiny comes as he faces intense pressure to make clear whether his family stands to benefit from offshore assets linked to his late father.

Although Mr Cameron championed corporate tax transparency, he wrote in November 2013 to Herman Van Rompuy, president of the European Council at the time, to argue that trusts widely used for inheritance planning in Britain should win special treatment in an EU law to tackle money laundering.

In the letter, seen by the Financial Times, Mr Cameron said: �It is clearly important we recognise the important differences between companies and trusts. This means that the solution for addressing the potential misuse of companies, such as central public registries, may well not be appropriate generally.�

Britain has emerged as the strongest European rival to Switzerland for private banking and wealth management, administering �1.2tn of assets, according to Deloitte. The sector contributed �3.2bn to the economy, according to 2014 estimates from the British Bankers� Association.

A senior government source said that Mr Cameron�s letter reflected official advice that creating a central registry for trusts would have been complex and would have distracted from the main objective of shining a light on the ownership of shell companies.

�It would have slowed down the process because of the different types of trust involved,� the official said. �They are sometimes used to protect vulnerable people, so that would have been an extra complication.

�As the directive went through we reached a position where trusts which generate tax consequences had to demonstrate their ownership to HM Revenue & Customs.�

According to officials, the UK stance in 2013 prompted clashes with France and Austria as well as with members of the European Parliament, who accused Britain of double standards in the fight against tax avoidance.

Maria Fekter, the Austrian finance minister at the time, had attacked Britain earlier that year as �the island of the blessed for tax evasion and money laundering�. She cited trusts as a specific problem.

The Panama Papers revelations, which centre on how a law firm, Mossack Fonseca, helped thousands to set up offshore structures, is the latest setback to Britain�s claim to be tough on tax.

Along with the discovery that Ian Cameron, the prime minister�s deceased father, was a director of an offshore fund advised by Mossack Fonseca, the papers also show that the British Virgin Islands were by far the biggest destination for the transfer of wealth by the law firm.

The pressure on Mr Cameron over his family�s affairs prompted Downing Street to clarify again on Wednesday that �there are no offshore funds/trusts which the prime minister, Mrs Cameron or their children will benefit from in future�.

The prime minister�s friends insist that Blairmore, set up by Ian Cameron in 1982, was not a tax-avoidance vehicle. Rather it was a means of taking advantage of the lifting of exchange rate controls in 1979.

It was based in a jurisdiction with a zero tax rate to ensure that investors from multiple jurisdictions were not exposed to extra layers of tax, but it relied on investors to pay tax on their profits from the fund in their home countries.

Mr Cameron�s 2013 intervention in the EU�s push for greater financial transparency was sparked by an EU initiative to set up national public registers to disclose the true, �beneficial� owners of shell companies and trusts.

According to Judith Sargentini, a Dutch lawmaker who led the parliament�s work on the draft law, the UK�s argument was that strict transparency rules would be a damaging interference into people�s privacy.

It argued that trusts have a special role in Britain in helping families manage issues around inheritance.

�I saw it [the British position] as a danger and a possible loophole,� Ms Sargentini told the FT. �Some member states saw it as an underhand way for the UK to get an advantage.�

While the final version of the law, adopted in 2015, was explicit in requiring central registers of companies� true owners, the language for trusts was more ambiguous. Although a significant victory for Britain, it prompted warnings of potential abuse.

A trust is a legal arrangement where assets such as money, or property are held on behalf of someone else who will be the end beneficiary. Examples include �bare trusts�, where assets are held until the beneficiary is old enough to claim them, and more complex forms where, for example, interest can be passed on as it is accrued.

Calls for more transparency around trusts stem from concerns that they can be a tool for financial secrecy and for shifting assets offshore. In a notorious example, Sani Abacha, a deceased former president of Nigeria, embezzled billions partly by using offshore trusts.

Industry practitioners warn that working out the appropriate level of transparency is a fiendishly complex task given trusts� legal structure. With power in the hands of the trustees, it is possible, and can be intentional, that someone does not even know that they stand to be a beneficiary.

�Trusts are yet another way to hide money,� Tove Maria Ryding at the European Network on Debt and Development, told the FT.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 09:17

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

I find it highly amusing that Pigfucker's family trust fund is called "Blair more".

# ? Apr 7, 2016 09:30

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Gonzo McFee posted:

Here we go.

Between this and the veto of the workers' rights bill I wonder how long until left wing parties throughout Europe start backing Brexit.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 09:31

communism bitch: Apr 24, 2009

There's always more and it's always worse

# ? Apr 7, 2016 09:53

Renaissance Robot: Oct 10, 2010; Bite my furry metal ass

TheCrushinator posted:

Yes, but they can be redeployed into the exciting new field of recycling center management, after an appropriate consultation period and tender process has taken place to outsource this vital service to the best possible vendor (someones oxbridge chum who needs to fatten his portfolio a bit).

Won't someone please think of the mafia.

Also where was this line of reasoning when the psychoactive substances bill was going through? Making things illegal only hurts legitimate businesses :ancap:

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:06

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

Jedit posted:

I find it highly amusing that Pigfucker's family trust fund is called "Blair more".

This Guardian article from a few years back references Cameron's inheritance, but apparently the will (which the Guardian saw) only has to contain UK assets so who knows what he got in the past. He still hasn't referred to historical benefit, right?

Gonzo McFee posted:

Here we go.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0e7c0a20-fc17-11e5-b5f5-070dca6d0a0d.html#axzz457uMXV4V

I like how the tldr of that is basically "it might be hard, so let's not do it."

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:06

Lord of the Llamas: Jul 9, 2002; EULER'VE TO SEE IT VENN SOMEONE CALLS IT THE WRONG THING AND PROVOKES MY WRATH

Oberleutnant posted:

There's always more and it's always worse

Mossack Fonseca is only the 4th largest firm of it's kind.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:13

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Lord of the Llamas posted:

Mossack Fonseca is only the 4th largest firm of it's kind.

It's also an anagram of Cassock of Means.
And Access Oaf Monks.

:tinfoil:

I wonder what JFairfax would make of this. :catholic:

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:21

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Gonzo McFee posted:

Here we go.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0e7c0a20-fc17-11e5-b5f5-070dca6d0a0d.html#axzz457uMXV4V

For too long we have been a tolerant society, saying that if you do not break the law then you have nothing to fear... brb dodging tax.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:25

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

Guavanaut posted:

It's also an anagram of Cassock of Means.
And Access Oaf Monks.

I wonder what JFairfax would make of this.

What about Kyoon? :sax:

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:30

Kokoro Wish: Jul 23, 2007; Post? What post? Oh wow.
I had nothing to do with THAT.

KayTee posted:

They're /always/ elves...

I know, right? You'd think they'd go for Dwarves. Proley, mining drunks that they are.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:35

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Rejoice! House prices went up by 2.6% last month, and are up 10.1% year-on-year: http://static.halifax.co.uk/assets/pdf/mortgages/pdf/March-2016-Halifax-House-Price-index.pdf

To celebrate, the Telegraph has run a piece explaining how wonderful it is to live in a flatshare in your forties: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/flat-sharing-at-40-the-thought-of-owning-property-again-is-daunt/

quote:

Recent research by flat-sharing website Weroom showed that in the UK 28 per cent of those in flat-shares are living with people over the age of 40. As property prices continue to rise across the UK, flat-sharing is increasingly common among all ages.
�Gone are the days when young couples married and moved into their lifetime home to begin a family,� says Thomas Villeneuve of Weroom. �It�s clear that more needs to be done to protect renters who will not be able to afford to buy, and therefore see flat-sharing as a long-term property solution.�
...
The psychology of sharing a living space later in life is the subject of research by Dr Becky Spelman at the Private Therapy Clinic, alongside her peers in London and New York. She says, �This kind of living style has an initial impact on self-esteem for many. We have preconceptions that society will judge us negatively for not owning our home past the age of 40.�
However, Dr Spelman says that levels of independence grow in many cases, leading to increased self-esteem. �This is interesting as the data suggests that, while flat-sharing in your 40s often starts as a negative experience (in the individual�s eyes), it turns into the making of a person.�
One reason for this, she believes, is that flat-sharing can halt the usual mid-40s happiness slump, which psychologists attribute to modern expectations of achievement reaching their nadir at that age.
�By breaking away from the social norm of something as basic as accommodation, a person can find the additional stimuli to choose their happiness, which is much more difficult if they are too heavily tied into �achieving� social norms.�

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:48

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Why do I get the feeling the 'flat' sharing promotion is basically telling people to live with their parents their whole life?

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:50

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Also, "The defence secretary, Michael Fallon, has denied that details of a �9m taxpayer-funded pro-EU publicity blitz were released to deflect attention from the prime minister�s financial affairs."

Dance my pretties, dance!

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:52

Quote-Unquote: Oct 22, 2002

TheCrushinator posted:

Apparently the Tories are worried about wrecking economies and livelihoods. Just not the UK's.

The Government should not stop British overseas territories acting as tax havens because it would destroy their livelihoods, a senior Conservative MP has argued.

Ahahahaha, this is great. "If we don't stop loving everybody over, some people might lose their jobs!"

I always thought it was strange that we crack down on organised crime so much. Some of those gangsters have children, you know, and you're stealing bread from their mouths when you punish their criminal parents! :mad:

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:25

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Graun posted:

One of the reasons why Brexit campaigners are so angry about the government�s �9m pro-EU mailshot is that ministers played down suggestions that they were going to do this last year, as MPs were debating the EU referendum bill.

In the Commons ministers repeatedly said they would not be sending out leaflets etc during the short campaign, ie in the four weeks before the referendum. To be fair, they never ruled out sending out leaflets at an earlier point, but sometimes this was not very explicit. Vote Leave have been highlighting various examples of allegedly misleading statements, including this quote from David Lidington, the Europe minister, in a debate in September.

quote:
Let me repeat that we have no intention of legislating to allow the government to do things such as mailshots, paid advertising or leafleting.

No doubt Lidington would say in this quote he was ruling out introducing new legislation to allow a mailshot during the short campaign and that the government does not need legislation to send out the leaflet published today. But MPs may have got the impression that a mass leaflet drop was being ruled out.

Beautiful to see Tories on the end of this kind of thing.

"But you said you weren't going to send leaflets!" "Ah but we only said we wouldn't legislate to send leaflets. We don't actually need to pass legislation to do it" *posh booing noises*

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:33

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Renaissance Robot posted:

Also where was this line of reasoning when the psychoactive substances bill was going through? Making things illegal only hurts legitimate businesses

Those harm people though. Unlike siphoning off vast amounts of wealth that would otherwise be circulating through the economy. People would just waste that on food and shelter.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:39

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

It's well known that taxes are basically just throwing money into a big hole so there's no possible way that getting more tax could help people to live. No, instead we must erm, charge a commission on helping people not pay tax. That's much better.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:42

an_mutt: Sep 29, 2010; I was,
I am,
and I remain a soldier!

Sworn to dedicate my heart and soul to the restoration of human kind!

Quote-Unquote posted:

I always thought it was strange that we crack down on organised crime so much. Some of those gangsters have children, you know, and you're stealing bread from their mouths when you punish their criminal parents!

to be fair, it is wrong to punish children for the criminality of their parents. you never know what the kids of criminals can potentially do - even becoming prime minister is possible, I bet.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:51

Lunar Suite: Jun 5, 2011; If you love a flower which happens to be on a star, it is sweet at night to gaze at the sky. All the stars are a riot of flowers.

LemonDrizzle posted:

Rejoice! House prices went up by 2.6% last month, and are up 10.1% year-on-year: http://static.halifax.co.uk/assets/pdf/mortgages/pdf/March-2016-Halifax-House-Price-index.pdf

To celebrate, the Telegraph has run a piece explaining how wonderful it is to live in a flatshare in your forties: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/flat-sharing-at-40-the-thought-of-owning-property-again-is-daunt/

The rich buy, the poor rent. Apartmentheid if you will.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 11:51

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Here's a guy detailing a long list of why the EU sucks, and then says "but Tories!" as his reason for voting to Remain http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/07/brexit-leftwing-eu-tories-boris-johnson

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:11

Fans: Jun 27, 2013; A reptile dysfunction

I think their point is valid . "The EU is a bit poo poo, but do you think we'd actually have the worker and consumer rights we have now if we'd let Tony Blair and Cameron do it instead?"

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:19

Barry Foster: Dec 24, 2007; What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Tesseraction posted:

Here's a guy detailing a long list of why the EU sucks, and then says "but Tories!" as his reason for voting to Remain http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/07/brexit-leftwing-eu-tories-boris-johnson

It's not a well put together argument so it reads as a bit abrupt, but his point is perfectly valid. I'm struggling with the exact same concerns. Which will be harder to get out from under in the future? Or rather, which is likely to last longest? The EU in its present shithouse form, or the upcoming 1000 year Tory Reich? Which will ultimately be worse?

Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Apr 7, 2016

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:20

Renaissance Robot: Oct 10, 2010; Bite my furry metal ass

LemonDrizzle posted:

Rejoice! House prices went up by 2.6% last month, and are up 10.1% year-on-year: http://static.halifax.co.uk/assets/pdf/mortgages/pdf/March-2016-Halifax-House-Price-index.pdf

To celebrate, the Telegraph has run a piece explaining how wonderful it is to live in a flatshare in your forties: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/flat-sharing-at-40-the-thought-of-owning-property-again-is-daunt/

Tl;dr: hardship makes you happier. This is all for your own good, proles! :wotwot:

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:23

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Wait do we openly hate the working class for being traitors to themselves and big dumb racists who have stupid faces? Or do we admire them for their plucky attitude and down to the earth outlooks? Who are we fighting for again? How many teams are there? FF on?

edit: What is wrong with JFairfax lately?

Regarde Aduck fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Apr 7, 2016

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:33

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Barry Foster posted:

It's not a well put together argument so it reads as a bit abrupt, but his point is perfectly valid. I'm struggling with the exact same concerns. Which will be harder to get out from under in the future? Or rather, which is likely to last longest? The EU in its present shithouse form, or the upcoming 1000 year Tory Reich? Which will ultimately be worse?

reminder that there are posters itt who are planning on voting to leave who naively think that if it happens the tories won't use it to get out of the european convention of human rights as soon as possible to implement their own version

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:37

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 4, 2024 12:49

Lord of the Llamas: Jul 9, 2002; EULER'VE TO SEE IT VENN SOMEONE CALLS IT THE WRONG THING AND PROVOKES MY WRATH

I propose we allow Essex and Kent to secede from the UK.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 12:42

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT April 2016: David Cameron's P19 Form

«‹›154 »