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Laughing my rear end off at Pandaren Odin. I wonder how they managed to get that past legal.
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Apr 7, 2016 00:23
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Farecoal posted:Was really hoping for bird with a crossbow, got anime schoolgirl instead Yeah, but not going to lie... Her kit seems like a lot of fun.
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Apr 7, 2016 04:17
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GuyUpNorth posted:Neith finally got a good skin that's hopefully not locked behind chests. On the other hand I really want those underworld skins but they're going to be gems... I believe the Neith skin is the 250 gem ´basic model enhanced with couple more shineys´ one, which I generally really like, except for Athena´s 
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Apr 7, 2016 08:46
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patch notes look interesting but yea, 2016 gods are gonna make 2015 gods look balanced lmbo I'm okay with Jing Wei's model, I like the designs and concept but still wish it was an actual bird Hirez seems to have gotten a marketing consultant though, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were Jing Wei poseable figurines in the future straight out of bishoujo, she screams it. Their artists are definitely getting better or they've hired insanely good ones because some of these card art blows my mind Lastgirl fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Apr 7, 2016 10:01
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Patch notes: *tickle-tickle-tickle-nerf* *tickle-tickle-tickle-buff* BUY OUR NEW SKIN THINGS WITH GEMS BUY GEMS BUY GEMS
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Apr 7, 2016 13:35
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I mean it is a business.
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Apr 7, 2016 14:03
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f1av0r posted:I mean it is a business. Built on a "competitive" game with lack of serious balance changes. 15 more base damage, 2 second CD change. Nothing is actually different... Enjoy that new $8.00 skin though...
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Apr 7, 2016 14:59
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If you think changes to that degree don't affect anything you are an idiot.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:56
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Um yeah. Odin punted straight out of the meta, people will be abusing the poo poo out of Scylla until they inevitably roll back those buffs, and get used to seeing Apollo every game once again. Not small changes.
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Apr 7, 2016 18:05
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Shab posted:Um yeah. Odin punted straight out of the meta, people will be abusing the poo poo out of Scylla until they inevitably roll back those buffs, and get used to seeing Apollo every game once again. Not small changes. yeah, even super small changes in dota can be enough to push a character out of favor, because when combined with all the rest of the changes it can stack up to a lot
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Apr 7, 2016 18:18
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Safari Disco Lion posted:If you think changes to that degree don't affect anything you are an idiot. I said "nothing is actually different" not "these changes don't affect anything." Everything about each of the abilities still do exactly what they do, changing base numbers and cooldown timers doesn't make the actual ability any different. Shab posted:Um yeah. Odin punted straight out of the meta, people will be abusing the poo poo out of Scylla until they inevitably roll back those buffs, and get used to seeing Apollo every game once again. Not small changes. Odin ring still traps and negates healing, only 15 seconds less often. How is he out of the meta? 30 more base damage on crush does not break Scylla. How do you abuse 30 extra base damage late-game? 15% more power scaling on sic 'em doesn't break Scylla. How does 135 extra damage (at 900 power) mean people will "abuse" her? 20 more base damage on so beautiful does not break Apollo. How does this make him a top pick again? People treat every nerf or buff like its the beginning or end of an era for a God... Balance tweaks have been a freaking joke for over a year. Makes me wonder how many of you newcomers are aware of the warrior "re-purpose" of 2014. aka the last true balance adjustment.
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Apr 7, 2016 18:37
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coca bojangles posted:Balance tweaks have been a freaking joke for over a year. Makes me wonder how many of you newcomers are aware of the warrior "re-purpose" of 2014. aka the last true balance adjustment. I am a newcomer not aware of the warrior "re-purpose" of 2014! What should I know?
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Apr 7, 2016 18:48
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coca bojangles posted:Odin ring still traps and negates healing, only 15 seconds less often. How is he out of the meta? Alright so I'll start this off saying that I don't really play much conquest, but I do watch a lot of the pro play/esports stuff. To me, "in the meta" means "probably gonna be picked in SPL games". Odin is probably out not just because of the ult nerf, which was honestly overdue, but also due to the new Spectral Armor item (gives ghost walk on relic use) meaning even someone with no jumps like Hel can get out of the ring. Scylla's buffs are aimed at her early game, which was rear end, which meant she couldn't really get to a good lategame spot. She is extremely strong at late game, and now she does even more damage, which is honestly a really terrifying thought. That's the "abuse" part. Having to play against her is abuse. #PleaseNoScylla Apollo is sorta the same deal, people didn't play him as much because his early clear was weak, so they buffed it. Even a seemingly small number like 20 extra damage might mean he can full clear the minion wave a level earlier, and keep up with other hunters. He's also strong late game with a lot of utility/split push potential so expect to see him more often. The real lesson to take away from all these sorts of small buffs and nerfs is that it means a lot of these gods are actually pretty well balanced. If they weren't, it would take a hell of a lot more change to make an effect (for example, Ratatoskr is getting a full rework instead of small tweaks). If you want to keep it balanced you can't just make big changes willy-nilly. Now, you also don't want the game to get stagnant, so that's why they save the big game changes for the start of the new season (like the new relic system, new Doom Orb, etc). Obviously people have different opinions on what is or is not balanced, but I know that HiRez has a whole lot more overall game statistics that they look at, so they probably know more about how well a god is doing than I do. I tend to trust them.
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Apr 7, 2016 19:01
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Hirez Fair and Balanced Pick One 
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Apr 7, 2016 19:03
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Pimp Drakula posted:I am a newcomer not aware of the warrior "re-purpose" of 2014! What should I know? Warrior scaling and base numbers were higher than they are now. Abilities were out of whack (Chaac's ult use to make him immune to cc and damage; Tyr's Fearless in guard stance could knock you up aka double knockup; SWK's passive was stronger and Master's Will could knock you up). The go-to warrior build was Urchin + Qin's Sai's and every warrior could basically wreck against any comp. Their healing and sustain was higher than it was now. Odin's kit was entirely different. He had an attack speed steroid, and his other abilities had passive buffs on top of whatever damage they could already do (+passive HP5, +protections). ADC Odin was actually viable with Qin's, and he was the "all-laner" because he was viable in ANY role. http://nemo.pythonanywhere.com/smite/ has some patch history on Smite but it hasn't been updated in a while. The warrior kits pre/post nerfs are in there though.
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Apr 7, 2016 19:07
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Pimp Drakula posted:I am a newcomer not aware of the warrior "re-purpose" of 2014! What should I know? You should know not to freak out over the minor tweaks they call "balance adjustments" today. http://forums.smitegame.com/showthread.php?11496-May-22nd-Janus-and-Warrior-Re-purpose
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Apr 7, 2016 19:07
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coca bojangles posted:Odin ring still traps and negates healing, only 15 seconds less often. How is he out of the meta? Spectral Armor quote:30 more base damage on crush does not break Scylla. How do you abuse 30 extra base damage late-game? Because her damage lategame is already best-in-class for mages, and you're leaving out that Sic 'Em hits 3 targets at max rank. HiRez's attempts to "solidify" her lategame role puts her over the edge, in my opinion, but I would love to revisit this in a few weeks. In the mean time I'll go back to one- or two-shotting everything but guardians and warriors with her (and all while shoring up her weak early clear with the newly buffed Soul Stone) quote:20 more base damage on so beautiful does not break Apollo. How does this make him a top pick again? Unless I'm reading different patch notes, the changes were mostly buffs to his mana problems. quote:Balance tweaks have been a freaking joke for over a year. Makes me wonder how many of you newcomers are aware of the warrior "re-purpose" of 2014. aka the last true balance adjustment. I've been playing since June 2012, but I don't see why that should matter. Do you really want sweeping changes like the warrior re-purpose at this stage in the game's life? I think that may do more harm than good and alienate a lot of veteran players. The game is balanced now to the point that these "little" changes have huge ramifications as it is. I for one am okay saving the big, all-encompassing changes for new Season release patches and little tweaks like these that are--despite the relative quaintness of the numbers involved--substantial in their impact.
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Apr 7, 2016 19:23
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Also I don't really see anyone freaking out. Personally I find patches and armchair theorycrafting meta shifts the most interesting thing about the game at this point, I like discussing this stuff.
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Apr 7, 2016 19:33
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Shab posted:Spectral Armor quote:Because her damage lategame is already best-in-class for mages, and you're leaving out that Sic 'Em hits 3 targets at max rank. HiRez's attempts to "solidify" her lategame role puts her over the edge, in my opinion, but I would love to revisit this in a few weeks. In the mean time I'll go back to one- or two-shotting everything but guardians and warriors with her (and all while shoring up her weak early clear with the newly buffed Soul Stone) edit: Sic 'Em doesn't hit 3 gods every single time. Minions? Sure. Gods? Not very often. quote:Unless I'm reading different patch notes, the changes were mostly buffs to his mana problems. quote:I've been playing since June 2012, but I don't see why that should matter. Do you really want sweeping changes like the warrior re-purpose at this stage in the game's life? I think that may do more harm than good and alienate a lot of veteran players. quote:The game is balanced now to the point that these "little" changes have huge ramifications as it is. I for one am okay saving the big, all-encompassing changes for new Season release patches and little tweaks like these that are--despite the relative quaintness of the numbers involved--substantial in their impact. The balance team has no idea what they are doing and it is obvious through their constant tiny tweaks intended to "see where it takes us". coca bojangles fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Apr 7, 2016 19:44
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I guess don't spend money on the game and continue to complain about free continuous updates. It's kind of weird how little self awareness you have.
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Apr 7, 2016 20:04
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coca bojangles posted:So people are going to sacrifice an item slot and a relic activation just to escape an Odin ring? I doubt it. I think it's enough to scare pro players away from picking him as often as he has been picked so far this season, yeah. quote:Exactly, the extra damage doesn't change anything... I disagree, I think the changes will put her lategame damage in a class all its own and the Crush and Soul Stone changes buff her early game to the point that there's really no risk in picking her anymore. quote:Yes, I do think this game needs another aggressive balance change to Gods. I've already been driven away by the entirety of the 2015 roster and upcoming 2016-ers which are essentially better versions of already existing Gods. There is a definite problem of long-term power creep in the game, but I've long since given up hoping they'll change their tune on that, so bringing up older gods that have fallen out of favor with adjustments is the next best thing in my eyes. I'd rather they do that in smaller increments and tweaks here and there than blow up everything and hope the game isn't unplayable for months as they tweak whatever that new game looks like to get it back to some semblance of balance. Those tweaks have "huge ramifications" in that they dictate the gods that people will play and play against in a lot of their games for weeks or months on end, so yeah, I do consider these tweaks to be fairly big in their effects. And just for fun, let's look at the Standard HiRez Deployment Model™ for new gods: Release new OP god -> people play/complain about said god -> god is nerfed down to size OR eventually judged to be okay as people learn to play against her That cycle isn't an accident. It gets people talking, it gets people p(l)aying, it gets people riled up and emotionally involved. It can be wearisome and frustrating for people like you and I who have been playing for years, but I think HiRez knows what they're doing more than people given them credit for (except for Erez, the company seems to succeed in spite of him).
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Apr 7, 2016 20:08
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coca bojangles posted:Yes, I do think this game needs another aggressive balance change to Gods. I've already been driven away by the entirety of the 2015 roster and upcoming 2016-ers which are essentially better versions of already existing Gods. It kinda sounds like you want to play a different game.
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Apr 7, 2016 20:33
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Kerrrrrrr posted:It kinda sounds like you want to play a different game. A game that isn't any current MOBA considering they ALL do small number tweaks, which seem to offend his delicate sensibilities. People like him are only happen with giant, sweeping nerfs and buffs in every single balance patch, but will then bitch endlessly that the game changes too drastically every few weeks. Safari Disco Lion fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Apr 7, 2016 20:35
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Shab posted:
Release new OP god -> people play/complain about said god -> god is slowly tweaked down 5's, 10's, and 20's at a time until people have seen enough changes to give up and stop complaining. I'm invested in this game, I want it to succeed but when every new release is immediately "S" tier, and if they aren't, they're buffed until they are, I give up. I've gotten to the elo range where people only play top tier or new gods and I'm sick of having to try so loving hard to win, its draining.
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Apr 7, 2016 20:36
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You realize tier lists basically only apply to the best of the best pro players, and that for 90% of the player base you're talking single digit win percentages for the vast majority of tier differences, even from the highest to lowest? Right now the highest win rate ranked conquest assassin on PC is Loki, at 52.76%. The lowest is Serqet at 46.75%. That's one extra win every 16 games. Big loving deal.coca bojangles posted:I've gotten to the elo range where people only play top tier or new gods That is literally every elo. Safari Disco Lion fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Apr 7, 2016 20:39
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Safari Disco Lion posted:A game that isn't any current MOBA considering they ALL do small number tweaks, which seem to offend his delicate sensibilities. People like him are only happen with giant, sweeping nerfs and buffs in every single balance patch, but will then bitch endlessly that the game changes too drastically every few weeks. No, I'm not after giant balance adjustments every single patch... There are gods that are bloated in need of an aggressive balance adjustment, that's all I'm saying.
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Apr 7, 2016 20:51
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So now your upset that new gods drastically effect the game and you'd prefer if they didn't impact it very much. But you still prefer large impacting patches. Maybe you should head over to star citizen because you're on the fast track to game developer
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Apr 7, 2016 20:57
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coca bojangles posted:No, I'm not after giant balance adjustments every single patch... Keep waiting, because big sweeping adjustments almost never happen in games like this. It doesn't happen in Smite, or League, or Dota, or HotS except in rare cases of dumb unforseen interactions that throw the whole thing out of whack, like the old AP Tryndamere in League. Because, contrary to your bitching that they "don't know what they're doing", they know that huge sweeping changes will most likely just nerf a brand new, hyped up character into uselessness, so they do small incremental changes to get them into a decent place without making the shiny new thing unplayable.
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Apr 7, 2016 20:58
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Since when does suggesting that one aggressive god balance patch mean that I prefer large impact patches every time? I mean, I brought up the 2014 warrior patch because HiRez has done it before. A single large scale patch that was needed because... guess what? A bunch of Gods were bloated and in need of an aggressive balance adjustment. All of them are still playable and considered balanced and some of them are even high tier right now. Those of you who think that removing something from a god's kit makes them "unplayable" are just being dramatic and exaggerating.
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Apr 7, 2016 21:17
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What are the gods that need "aggressive balance adjustment" in your eyes? What would that patch look like? No judgement, I'm genuinely curious.
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Apr 7, 2016 21:55
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Shab posted:Do you really want sweeping changes like the warrior re-purpose at this stage in the game's life? I think that may do more harm than good and alienate a lot of veteran players. The game is balanced now to the point that these "little" changes have huge ramifications as it is. I for one am okay saving the big, all-encompassing changes for new Season release patches and little tweaks like these that are--despite the relative quaintness of the numbers involved--substantial in their impact. Prior to Season 3, HiRez's dev team mentioned they wanted to repurpose gods to be more "defined" in their roles - strong early game gods are supposed to fall off harder late game and vice versa. A god with split push potential was supposed to have a "siege build" possible (more items like Crusher) so that "siege" comps is a possible strategy. A sweeping change for this would be interesting because then you might actually see people picking gods like He Bo or Ra. Right now, most top pick gods are strong throughout all phases: Chronos has a monstrous late game but, prior to Season 3, he was never picked because of poor early game. Now that Doom Orb (and now Soul Stone) has been buffed that problem is gone. Chronos being back in the meta actually goes against what they wanted to do for Season 3. The same might happen to some super late game hunters (Artemis, AMC) now that Throwing Dagger/Golden Bow has been buffed. I mean, I'm all for gods rising and falling out of meta, but what direction is HiRez taking?
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Apr 7, 2016 21:59
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Shab posted:What are the gods that need "aggressive balance adjustment" in your eyes? What would that patch look like? No judgement, I'm genuinely curious. I've been working on a list for a while and its not done yet... a few other goons have joined in and shared their perspectives as well. Not gonna name them but if they choose to chime in that's fine. Amaterasu - Remove percentage based bonus base damage on charge for her reflection, and consecutive hits for her ultimate. It allows her to build nothing but defense and still have high damage numbers that kill hunters/assassins/mages. Standardize her ult cooldown to 90 seconds like the majority of the warriors. Bellona - Remove block stacks/damage reflect from her sword stance, not many people realize she has this in her kit... She gets a block stack (like Athena's) every 3rd basic attack and it reflects 30% back to the attacker.(that's more than Hide of Nemean and she gets it for free...) Standardize her ult cooldown as well. Janus - Remove the overcompensation bonus damage for "skill shot" from his ult. It's absolutely random and most of the time... not a "skill shot" Hou Yi - Remove the overcompensation bonus damage for "skill shot" from his ricochet. It's nice for jungle/wave clear because you can actually plan out the trajectory and learn neat tricks, but when players end up just making GBS threads it out randomly getting double bounces in fights they should have lost, its a problem. Raijin - Make him actually have to hit minions/players to stack his passive, he's the first God that doesn't need to hit to stack his passive. The mez on his escape is absolutely unnecessary, it allows him to interrupt and easily confirm free damage. This is where I stopped elaborating in the doc... Sol - 3 seconds is too long for full immunity (including deployables and collision). Ao Kuang - Remove his on-hit polynomicon proc, re-remove his heal when executing a player. Chiron - Lower his base movement speed, remove his attack while dashing. Frostbound Hammer - Lower slow duration to 1s (like fatalis), built on warriors that already have slows in their kit. Remove power, increase health. (Fatalis is an item that offers no power, frostbound should be just the same) Soul Reaver - Just get rid of it, its a cheese item and is too strong on guardians. (you won't miss it, I promise) Rage - Forces crits to happen by increasing your crit chance every time you don't crit, makes crit not actually random. coca bojangles fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Apr 7, 2016 22:36
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cyclonic posted:Prior to Season 3, HiRez's dev team mentioned they wanted to repurpose gods to be more "defined" in their roles - strong early game gods are supposed to fall off harder late game and vice versa. A god with split push potential was supposed to have a "siege build" possible (more items like Crusher) so that "siege" comps is a possible strategy. I actually think that Chronos should be the model for season 3. He is certainly strong in all phases of the game, but doesn't really take off until he is four items in and level 14. All gods should be playable in all phases of the game, but their scaling, required itemization, and basic kit design should dictate what phase they are strongest at. Odin is another good example of this, in that he is hardy early on, becomes terrifying in the mid game once he has cooldown and bird bombing is strong, and then falls off late game as he turns into a cage bot due to a lack of hard CC in his kit. I think the Scylla adjustments and golden bow buffs are them moving towards this model. This model runs into a different set of problems in that some god kits are so focused on a single idea or so easily countered that making them able to contribute in any phase of the game makes them utterly broken in their strong phase. Gods such as He Bo would need a total rework if they continue with this model or they will never see the light of day at high level conquest play.
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Apr 7, 2016 22:44
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coca bojangles posted:Frostbound Hammer - Lower slow duration to 1s (like fatalis), built on warriors that already have slows in their kit. Remove power, increase health. (Fatalis is an item that offers no power, frostbound should be just the same) 
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Apr 7, 2016 22:44
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Kerrrrrrr posted:(for example, Ratatoskr is getting a full rework instead of small tweaks) wait, i didn't watch the stream, but by full rework do you mean their entire kit is getting changed? i've never played them before, was their skillset that weird/poo poo/whatever/etc.? either that or you mean they're getting sizable changes to each skill stats-wise, in which case ignore this.
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Apr 8, 2016 09:00
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coca bojangles posted:I've been working on a list for a while and its not done yet... a few other goons have joined in and shared their perspectives as well. Not gonna name them but if they choose to chime in that's fine. Removing the bonus on her reflection would take her from "bad" early clear to "unplayable" early clear, and would leave her a serious bottom tier choice even in casual conquest. Building high defense and still destroying squishies is also the niche of warriors. Tyr does the same thing better, albeit with a higher execution threshold. Vamana, Osiris, and Chaac all tend to build only two damage items and the rest is tanky, and have better early clear than her. Don't even get started on Bellona and the poo poo she can do while built tanky. There are 11 warriors in the game. Of those 11, Amaterasu, Bellona, Chaac, Odin, Ravana, and Tyr have ults on 70~75s cooldowns. That is more than half of them. There you go, every one of your complaints is completely out of sync with reality there, and that is just your first one. Try to spend some time on Earth with the rest of us occasionally.
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Apr 8, 2016 09:19
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? Rage was originally like this. Was literally the point of getting rage. Rip Death, Rage, Malice gently caress you builds~
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Apr 8, 2016 09:33
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https://mobile.twitter.com/schisam/status/718239524816556033
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Apr 8, 2016 13:00
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RGCrab posted:I actually think that Chronos should be the model for season 3. He is certainly strong in all phases of the game, but doesn't really take off until he is four items in and level 14. All gods should be playable in all phases of the game, but their scaling, required itemization, and basic kit design should dictate what phase they are strongest at. Odin is another good example of this, in that he is hardy early on, becomes terrifying in the mid game once he has cooldown and bird bombing is strong, and then falls off late game as he turns into a cage bot due to a lack of hard CC in his kit. I don't agree with this entirely. I don't like the idea that you can pick a top tier god and fit them into any comp and be fine. Chronos is a hyper-carry, up there with some of the hardest hitting gods in the late game (there was a SPL game recently where Lassiz's Chronos one-shot an Isis for 3/4 of her health). There needs to be a phase where he is weak. I like the concept that if a god is weak in a certain area, a team comp can be "built around them" - like how Ah Puch was played in this amazing game. Artemis/AMC are considered liabilities because the enemy team can camp them during their early game. But there are plenty of gods that can guard them (Khepri, Geb, Sylvanus; even junglers with CC in their kits like Hun Batz, Thor) but nobody plays this way. Instead they want a god that's strong throughout all phases and can hold their own. And since these strong gods exist, Artemis/AMC aren't picks. They want gods that are strong throughout all phases, and can fit into any comp. But instead of buffing Artemis/AMC up to be on par with Chronos, everyone should be brought down to where Artemis/AMC/Ah Puch is and where Chronos was. Why is Bellona allowed to win lane against almost every match up, and still be a huge threat late game while building pure tank? Why is Sol able to clear easily, be one of the safest gods to play, shred towers almost faster than any other god, and dish out almost free poke (and prior to her Poly nerf she was able to completely poke people out of late game team fights) ? Why does Janus clear easily, have good cc, hits like a truck late game, and has unrivaled mobility (and therefore a safe pick)? Why does Ao Kuang have the potential to one-shot squishies, a no-skill ult (since it auto-locks on a target - compare this to Loki or Thanatos ult) that let's him teleport safely (AND now lifesteals so he can "get back in the fight"), AND get base defense stat buffs? Compare Bellona building pure tank vs. Chaac building pure tank. Compare Ao Kuang to Thanatos. Compare Janus to Ra. There needs to be some kind of weakness to reign in these top pick gods because I think it would make for some very interesting comps and fights. I want to see more games like the Ah Puch game I posted, not the games I'm seeing now. I mean, imagine a comp building around Artemis/AMC so that a late game team fights nets them a pentakill - a literal "guard the carry and let the carry carry" team fight. Or a team with flex picks (Athena, Chaac, Chronos, Kali, Ra) and the enemy team tries to counterpick and guesses wrong (Athena jungle, Kali ADC, Chaac solo, Chronos mid, Ra support that transitions into Chaac frontliner, Athena/Ra peeling for Kali/Chronos).
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Apr 8, 2016 14:20
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On the AMC note, half of my penta's are with AMC because late game my friends all had a habit of clearing the way and holding people down so I could delete them from the fight. Its a completely viable tactic and it pisses me off that if I pick AMC in conquest half my team will ragequit on the loving spot.
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Apr 8, 2016 14:51
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