Venezuela: The Empanada Summit

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El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

The reality is that it doesn't matter where you are because here you can as easily get killed or robbed in a "nice" area as you can in petare. The guys who are looking to rob foreigners and rich people of their iPhones and 4runners aren't going to do it in a barrio anyway.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 02:16

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# ? May 18, 2024 02:24

fnox: May 19, 2013

The police presence in Chacao is overall much higher than in Libertador. There's also less motorbike traffic.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 05:07

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

Tbh when I'm eating at a restaurant no matter where it is I'm always paranoid because those are the spots robbers love to go, a group of 5 guys can easily take over even a big restaurant and steal everyone's wallets and cellphones and their cars, that poo poo happens all the time.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 05:21

beer_war: Mar 10, 2005

In other news, venezuelanalysis dot com is your most trusted source for Venezuela news and definitely not run by clueless hacks, no sir. :thumbsup:

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11890

# ? Mar 22, 2016 08:03

Hugoon Chavez: Nov 4, 2011; THUNDERDOME LOSER

beer_war posted:

In other news, venezuelanalysis dot com is your most trusted source for Venezuela news and definitely not run by clueless hacks, no sir.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11890

Do we miss Borneo Jimmy already?

# ? Mar 22, 2016 08:57

M. Discordia: Apr 30, 2003; by Smythe

CIA confirmed to have killed Chavez. CIA's approval rating in 2016 Venezuela triples.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 14:00

Chuck Boone: Feb 12, 2009; El Turpial

beer_war posted:

In other news, venezuelanalysis dot com is your most trusted source for Venezuela news and definitely not run by clueless hacks, no sir.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11890

The Venezuelan government blames virtually everything on the United States, from food and medicine shortages to power outages. Yet even the PSUV won't blame Chavez's death on the CIA/DEA/whatever shadowy cabal these hacks have cooked up. "The journalist Eva Golinger" is a PSUV lackey, and I'm saddened to know that some people's exposure to the topic of Venezuela is limited to her and others like her.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 15:18

The Larch: Jan 14, 2015; by FactsAreUseless

Why would the DEA kill Chavez?

# ? Mar 23, 2016 02:32

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

The Larch posted:

Why would the DEA kill Chavez?

He didn't fulfill his cocaine export quota

# ? Mar 23, 2016 02:57

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

quote:

US President Barack Obama has promised a new era in relations with Argentina, with US firms announcing more than two billion dollars of new investments in the next 18 months. Obama also promised to lift the lid on shady bilateral past relations.

meanwhile in Venezuela...

# ? Mar 24, 2016 02:22

Borneo Jimmy: Feb 27, 2007; by Smythe

It looks like the right wing in Venezuela is intensifying their campaign of organized violence
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Venezuelan-Socialist-Mayor-Shot-Dead-in-Drive-By-Shooting-20160401-0015.html

quote:

Marcos Tulio Carrillo, mayor of La Ceiba with President Nicolas Maduro�s Socialist Party, or PSUV, died Thursday night after suffering eight gunshots wounds around 8:20 p.m. local time.

Fellow PSUV members expressed their sorrow over the death.

�In a terrible way today comrade Marcos Tulio Carrillo, mayor of La Ceiba in the state of Trujillo, was assassinated,� Jose Vielma Mora, governor of the state of Tachira, where two police officers were killed by anti-government protesters earlier this week, wrote on his Twitter account.

�Another worthy revolutionary has despicably fallen,� wrote PSUV lawmaker Hugbel Roa on his Twitter account. �My comrade and friend Tulio Carrillo, I will never forget you.�

Former West Caracas Mayor Freddy Bernal took to his Twitter account to condemn the �heinous murder� and say �no to impunity.�

The killing of Tulio Carrillo comes as Venezuela�s opposition-controlled National Assembly passed the controversial Amnesty Law earlier this week.

Venezuela�s opposition claims the bill is designed to for so-called �political prisoners,� such as jailed opposition leader Leopoldo Lopez, imprisoned over charges of public incitement of violence.

But leftist lawmakers argue that the law will serve to protect perpetrators of various crimes, as the bill�s scope ranges from misdemeanor charges to acts of political dissent involving explosives and firearms.

Here's a more indepth look at what the amnesty law entails
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-francisco-dominguez/venezuelas-right-wing-con_b_9401644.html?utm_hp_ref=venezuela

quote:

�A confesion de parte, relevo de prueba�
(Spanish legal expression: �When there is confession, no evidence is required�).

Mexican writer Carlos Fuentes could not imagine how correct he was when he said that the challenge a Latin American writer faced was to produce fiction that was more extraordinary than reality itself.

Venezuela�s Right Wing Opposition has just managed to perform an event that surpasses Gabriel Garcia Marquez�s magic realism: On 18th February 2016, making use of their majority in the National Assembly, they have passed an Amnesty Bill that seeks to provide legal impunity to acts of political delinquency they and their supporters have perpetrated for 17 years. Venezuela�s Right Wing majority in the National Assembly�s �amnesty� bill is not only an admission of guilt for, but also a well organised catalogue of, the political offences they and their supporters have perpetrated since 1999.

The Bill is upfront about what it seeks to amnesty: �acts defined as crimes, misdemeanours or infringements [...] and other acts provided for herein.� (Art.1) This Bill is an Opposition�s colossal Freudian slip since with it they, unwittingly, have admitted their guilt of more than a decade and a half of illegal, violent and undemocratic political felonies.

The Amnesty Bill is not yet law, since it needs to go through several constitutional procedures, including being vetoed by President Nicolas Maduro, who has condemned the Bill in the strongest terms. In the highly likely event of President Maduro vetoing it, the Bill will then be referred to the Supreme Court (TSJ) to get it to issue a ruling on its constitutionality. The TSJ can declare the Bill unconstitutional regardless of the size of the Right Wing majority in the National Assembly (for details of what the Opposition majority in the National Assembly can and cannot do read my article in the Huffington Post, Right Wing Majority in Venezuela�s National Assembly: The Constitutional and Political Stakes).

The Amnesty Bill�s Objectives and Scope

The Right Wing Opposition Amnesty and National Reconciliation Bill (Proyecto de Ley de Amnist�a y Reconciliaci�n Nacional, in Spanish) makes its stipulations retroactive to 1st January 1999, and in 45 articles, covers all manner of felonies and crimes committed up to the moment it becomes law (which, in the unlikely event of being approved, might be this year, 2016) when would be officially promulgated in the country�s National Gazette (Art.2, p.6). As we shall see below, the political felonies and crimes it covers are comprehensive since the bill�s scope ranges from misdemeanour at a public rally to terrorist acts involving explosives and firearms. The choice of period gives the game away since it includes ALL the illegal, criminal and law-breaking political acts perpetrated since 1999 by Opposition leaders and their supporters throughout the governments of both Hugo Chavez and Nicolas Maduro.

The list of felonies to be amnestied is as long as the acts they have perpetrated, and it correlates neatly with Right Wing Opposition�s efforts to illegally overthrow the democratically elected, constitutional and legitimate government of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. They include criminal acts perpetrated during golpista events such as the April 2002 coup d��tat; the oil lock-out in 2002-3; the street barricades and street violence (known in Venezuela as guarimba) that accompanied their 2004 recall referendum campaign against President Chavez; the collusion with Colombian paramilitaries to assault the country�s presidential palace and assassinate the president; various other coup d��tat attempts (in 2008, 2009 and 2010); the use of guarimba and hoarding of basic consumption necessities, including food items, during the 2007 constitutional referendum; all false reporting; all activities associated with the economic war; the wanton violence, destruction and loss of life of the guarimbas of April 2013 and February-July 2014 associated with the defeat of Henrique Capriles as presidential candidate and La Salida (�The Ousting�) respectively. La Salida was a political campaign led by Leopoldo Lopez, explicitly waged to oust the democratically elected government (See Lopez�s confirmation of this in his own words in Spanish). Plus all acts of violence, including terrorist acts carried out for illegal and unconstitutional political aims.

In its Art.4, the Bill confirms the above with breath-taking eloquence:

Amnesty shall be granted to acts regarded as crimes or misdemeanours when such acts have been or might have been committed for participating, organizing or calling demonstrations, protests, or meetings for political purposes, expressing ideas or spreading information for political motives, or making or promoting actions, proclamations, political agreements or statements deemed to be aimed at changing the constitutional order or the official government, whether or not accompanied by conspiracy actions. In such cases, amnesty shall be granted to the following criminal acts:

a) Incitement to disobey the law, incitement to hatred and crime apology;
b. Incitement to crime;
c. Assault and battery;
d. Violence or resistance to authority, and disobedience to authority;
e. Causing panic in the community or keeping it under distress by the dissemination of false information;
f. Conspiracy;
g. Obstruction of public roads with the aim to set up fire and other attacks against passing vehicles;
h. Damaging transportation systems as well as public IT and communication;
i. Destruction or damaging of roads and related infrastructure for public communication;
j. Property damage;
k. Conspiracy and terrorism;
l. Importation, manufacture, possession, supply or concealment of explosives or incendiary devices;
m. Disturbance of public peace;
n. Insulting a civil servant, in its various forms;
o. Use of minors to commit crimes;
p. Arson and other crimes involving danger for the public in general, in various forms;
q. Treason and other crimes against the Nation;
r. Rebellion and other related offences;
s. Mutiny, civil rebellion, treason, military rebellion, incitement to military rebellion, uprising, false alarm, attack and insult to the sentry, disclosure of military secrets, offense to military decorum, misuse of badges medals and military ranks, and theft of items belonging to the Armed Force;
t. Denial of legally due services;
u. Concealment;
v. Illegal possession and misuse of firearms, and the felony of illegal possession of firearms, illegal possession of a firearm and possession of firearms in public places;
w. Damage to facilities of the National Electric System; and
x. �Other related offences or those that appear closely related to any of the above.� (Amnesty and National Reconciliation Bill, pp. 9-10)

The offences included in the above list are specifically identified as felonies in Venezuela�s Penal Code in Arts. 128, 129, 132, 134, 140, 141, 143, 163, 215, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 238, 254, 255, 256, 257, 272, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 281, 285, 283, 286, 287, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 296, 296-A, 297, 343, 346, 347, 349, 350, 351, 352, 353, 354, 356, 357, 360, 362, 413, 414, 415, 483, 473, 474, 479, and 506.

Additionally, the �amnesty� includes offences to: Art.37 of the Law Against Organized Crime and Financing of Terrorism; Art.264 on offences against the Law for the Protection of Children and Adolescents; Arts.111, 112 and 113 of the Disarmament and Arms and Ammunitions Law dealing with offences regarding the illicit and illegal use and bearing of firearms; Art.107 of the Law of the Electricity Service identifying deliberate damages to the electricity service; and Arts. 412, 464, 476, 481, 486, 497, 500, 501, 502, 550, 565, 566 and 570 of the Military Justice Code that deals with offences such as military rebellion and instigation to military rebellion.

The above amount to the violation of a staggering total of 82 articles of the Penal Code and other Laws, most of which have to do with political violence. For good measure, and taking advantage of their �super majority�, the Right Wing MPs have also included articles of the Penal Code that deal with offences of corruption in the Law Against Corruption (See Arts. 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22 of the �amnesty� Bill).

This comprehensive crimes list, if approved as law, would leave off the hook the whole of the leadership of the Right Wing Opposition (with no exception) that has been centrally involved in 17 years of destabilization; all Opposition�s operatives and shock groups that have carried out vandalic acts and caused dozens of deaths and grave injuries to hundreds of people during the guarimbas; all activities associated with the training, arming and military training of armed groups, and with acts associated with attacks with weapons, explosives, firearms; and destruction of private and private property.

It gets better. The Amnesty Bill also includes acts
� reported as defamation o libel, committed by any citizen, political leader, journalist, media managers or editors, editorial boards or any other person, including images, messages through social media (Arts.8 and 9);
� contrary to the established peace and general order, which occurred between April 11th and 14th, 2002� (Art.10)
� contrary to the established peace committed in the framework of the nationwide strike and oil strike, declared and implemented form the last months of 2002 until early 2003.� (Art.11);
� related to statements by political leaders on January 23rd, 2014 and subsequent days, through the media and the social networks, in the framework of the proposal called La Salida (�The Ousting�. (Art.12)
� related to the �National Agreement for Transition� signed by Opposition political leaders on February 11th, 2015 and to the public call to sign or support such agreement. (Art.13)
� of �contempt of court regarding laws on injunctions or protections under constitutional remedies...� (Art.14)
� �deemed individual terrorism as described in article 52 of the Organic Law Against Organized Crime and Terrorism Financing, committed in 2014 and related to the plans that facilitated the absconding of persons who had been deprived from freedom due to the events mentioned herein, provided that such acts have not damaged the life and physical integrity of people [...]�
� regarded as crimes in accordance with Article 52 of the Organic Law Against Organized Crime and Terrorism Financing in the case of allegedly punishable acts committed during protests or demonstrations in 2014, provided that such acts have not damaged the life or physical integrity of people. � (Art.15)

Art.7 of the Amnesty Bill (pp. 12-14) lists the political events during which all the offences to be amnestied were perpetrated: 2002 (failed coup d��tat); 2003 (oil lock-out); 2004 (recall referendum); 2006 (presidential election); 2007 (constitutional referendum); 2009 (Right Wing Caracas Mayor, Antonio Ledezma, arbitrarily sacking hundreds of Town Hall workers); 2009 (August, demonstration against the government�s Law of Education); 2011 (violent demonstrations in the state of Barinas); 2013 (April, nationwide violent street protests following Opposition�s presidential candidate, Henrique Capriles� electoral defeat, leading to the death of 13 people, two of them children); and 2014 (February to July guarimbas unleashed by Leopoldo Lopez aimed at the ousting - La Salida - of the democratically elected and legitimate government of President Nicolas Maduro, in which 43 people (see details about the victims and how they died) lost their lives, there were over US$15 billion in destruction of private and public property, including the setting on fire to 15 universities, and over 800 people seriously injured). About La Salida, Art.7 contains a list of 23 events during which opposition supporters went on the rampage, acts to be amnestied.

The plot thickens even further with the inclusion in the Amnesty Bill of offences such as drug trafficking, kidnapping, embezzlement (Art.16 & Art.30), corruption, hoarding, black market speculation, economic boycott, fraudulent product adulteration, selling of items off expire day (Art.19), financing of terrorism, illicit enrichment (Art.20), fraud and usury in the selling and construction of private housing, and not paying of taxes (Art.35).

In short, not only there is provision in the Bill for every offence committed by their supporters mainly as a result of violent and destabilizing political activities, but the amnesty is extended to include all manner of economic crimes committed by bankers, entrepreneurs, and financiers most of whom have avoided Venezuela�s justice system by absconding in Miami, Peru, Panama, etc., claiming to be �political refugees�.

The Amnesty Bill: a Manual for Golpismo and Impunity

Due to media bias, most people probably believe that the Bolivarian government is animated by an intolerant and sectarian attitude whose authoritarianism inclines it to just punish opponents. This is not correct. On more than one occasion Hugo Chavez issued various amnesties to individuals involved in seditious and illegal actions against his government. Due to media misinformation they also probably think that the Amnesty Bill is actually very popular. It is not: a Hinterlaces poll conducted between 19th and 24th of February 2016 showed that only 9% thought it was a priority to pass an amnesty law).

Likewise, most people probably believe that the supposed intolerant and authoritarian nature of the Bolivarian government is the chief reason for the intense polarization that besets this South American nation. In fact, both Presidents Chavez and Maduro have called upon the Right Wing Opposition on numerous occasions to engage in constructive dialogue. Furthermore, the Venezuelan government has promoted and got support for constructive dialogue with the Opposition through many regional bodies such as MERCOSUR Common Market of the South, UNASUR (Union of South American nations, ALBA (Bolivarian Alternative for the Americas), and CELAC (Commonwealth of Latin American and Caribbean States), just to mention the most important ones.

Upon the announcement by the majority Right Wing in the National Assembly of their intention to pass the Amnesty Bill, Chavista MPs proposed instead the setting up of an all-party Truth and Reconciliation Commission to examine in detail case by case for the whole of the 17 years the Bill seeks to cover. The Commission would, on a consensual basis and after serious and rigorous police, forensic and judicial investigations, determine which case merits a presidential pardon, amnesty or punishment. Chavista MPs stated in unequivocal terms that the Commission would also examine all individuals, members of the security and law enforcement officers who may have perpetrated violent crimes, especially those involving violation of human rights. In no section of the Amnesty Bill, there is any manifestation of contrition for the so many acts of political violence carried out, not a single phrase of apology addressed to the victims.

The out of hand rejection of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and their doggedly pressing on with the Amnesty Bill, confirms that the Right Wing majority in the National Assembly have no real interest in Reconciliation, even less in the Truth thus squandering a golden opportunity to genuinely bring about conditions for national reconciliation. They preferred to opt for their proposed Amnesty Bill, thus revealing their real aim is not peace but impunity, which, if successful, will encourage more �misdemeanours, offences, infringements, and crimes� in future years. Thus, Venezuela�s most prominent constitutional lawyer, Hermann Escarr� is absolutely right in pointing out that the Amnesty Bill will generate more violence in the country.

It is difficult no to draw the conclusion that instead the Right Wing are keener to use their �super majority� to get away with murder.

The Amnesty Bill is unconstitutional since it contravenes a rather large number of the 1999 constitution�s principles and articles but more importantly, it massively undermines an essential principle of any democracy: the rule of law (estado de derecho in Spanish). Worse still, the Bill includes offences committed by many of the very MPs who are sponsoring and have voted for it. One can go through the list of offences included in the Bill article by article and put the name of prominent Opposition members to many of the specific crimes and violent political events described in the Bill. Thus, for example, Art.7 of the Amnesty Bill, include �university protests and demonstrations, which took place in Merida state, in May 2006�, events during which Nixon Moreno, a high ranking member of the Opposition, was charged with attempted rape against a female officer of the National Guard. Moreno fled to Peru as a �political exile� and there is an Interpol warrant of arrest against him.

Furthermore, it is well known that substantial sections of the Opposition coalition adhere to extreme right wing views and have repeatedly shown their willingness to resort to all manner of political violence. In this regard for 17 years the government has denounced sections of the Opposition for their collaboration and utilization of Colombian paramilitaries in Venezuela territory.

In fact, the youngest MP of the National Assembly, Robert Serra (27) and his assistant were assassinated by three Colombian paramilitaries who are now in prison after being extradited by Colombia�s President Juan Manuel Santos at the request of Venezuela�s law enforcement authorities. Both Serra and his assistant were stabbed to death in their own house and the paramilitaries declared they have used such a brutal form of killing because its silent manner would not alert the neighbours.

Additionally, there are the gory events leading to the dismemberment of the body of Liana Aixa Argueta by two individuals linked to Venezuela�s extreme right wing political parties, who confessed to have received military training in clandestine camps in Venezuela and Colombia by opposition retired general Antonio Rivero (see details in Miami Diario).

To all of the above, it must be added that several of the 43 of people who died during the La Salida guarimbas (February to July 2014) did so from shots in the head fired by professional marksmen. These deaths were the handy work of highly trained professionals.

Additionally, the Amnesty Bill contravenes many international protocols and conventions on human, social and political rights to which Venezuela is signatory to. Hermann Escarr� pointed out that the Amnesty Bill contravenes, among many others, the Inter American Bill of Human Rights, international protocols of civil and political rights, on rights of the child and so forth.

In conclusion, the Amnesty Bill is not at all a mechanism for reconciliation as claimed by the Bill (pp. 1-7) but it is actually an impunity law for political crimes against the nation, the constitution, the country�s stability, its laws, its people, its institutions, its government, its installations, its military institutions, its civil servants, its infrastructure and much more. The Bill is actually a Manual for Golpismo and Impunity, but above all, an admission of guilt of 17 years of political delinquency.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 22:55

fnox: May 19, 2013

It's illegal to cite an entire article without permission, Jimmy boy.

# ? Apr 3, 2016 00:08

Hugoon Chavez: Nov 4, 2011; THUNDERDOME LOSER

fnox posted:

It's illegal to cite an entire article without permission, Jimmy boy.

You right-wing pig!

# ? Apr 3, 2016 00:21

Chuck Boone: Feb 12, 2009; El Turpial

The Panama Papers came out today, and so far there are three Venezuelans named in the leaked files. They are:

1. Victor Cruz Weffer: Commander-in-Chief of the Venezuelan Armed Forces (2001) and President of the National Fund for Urban Development (2000-2001). Cruz fell out of favour in Chavez in late 2001 after he was accused of mismanaging $113 million. From the website:

quote:

Charges were filed one moth before Weffer acquired shares in the Sheychelles company Univers Investments Ltd.

2. Jesus Villanueva: One of the top dogs at PDVSA in the early 2000s. Left the PDVSA board in 2008 but remained in the organization as auditor. From the website:

quote:

Villanueva exposed in a 2009 PdVSA confidential memo costly problems with a nationwide food supply network created by Chavez and PdVSA; an audit revealed that only 25 percent of the more than $2.2 million in food imports ordered by mid-2008 had reached Venezuela within six months after payment.

Villanueva has power of attorney over one of the shell companies exposed in the leak, called Blue Sea Enterprise Corp.

3. Adrian Jose Velasquez Figueroa: Former head of security at the presidential palace under Chavez. His wife, Claudia Patricia Diaz Guillen, was National Treasurer of the Republic between 2011 and 2013. Here's a video explaining the information on the two revealed by the leak, along with my translation below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghO4j51XHkA

quote:

Narrator: Adrian Velasquez Figueroa was head of security at the presidential palace during Hugo Chavez�s term. He is married to Claudia Patricia Diaz Guillen. They [were] both in the army, and belonged to the circle closest to the Venezuelan leader.

Velasquez is one of the clients of the Panamanian firm Mossack Fonseca. His e-mails and negotiations came to light thanks to a global journalistic investigation. His wife was one of the first to treat Chavez for the cancer that took his life, when his disease was still a secret.
Between 2011 and 2013, she was placed in charge of the National Treasury, and was named secretary of a publicly-finance fund. Diaz watched over the income that came into the country amid a rigorous currency exchange system in place since 2003. During her term [as National Treasurer], there were allegations that state funds were funneled into Chavez�s campaign.

One month after an ill Chavez won the election, his former head of security joined the elite clientele of the Swiss bank BSI according to a letter certified by the institution which Velasquez sent to Mossack Fonseca. In April 2013, the firm created an anonymous company called Bleckner Associates Limited for Velasquez in the Seychelles, not before telling its employees that Velasquez was someone that needed to be investigated for his political connections and doubts over the origin of his fortune.

Despite these internal warnings, the company was created. Velasquez also manages other companies in Venezuela and Panama alongside his brother, Josmel Jose. The majority [of these companies] were opened while Diaz was the National Treasurer. Among them is M.J. Box Tool, which conducts business with the Venezuelan state.
A year after Chavez�s death, Velasquez obtained temporary citizenship in the Dominican Republic. Starting in 2013, he used an address for a sea-side neighbourhood in Punta Cana in his e-mails with the firm.

The Amnesty and National Reconciliation Law was passed earlier this week, and it is most definitely going to be struck down by the TSJ sooner rather than later. Last week, the TSJ nullified the Partial Central Bank Reform Law, which sought to 1) place the Central Bank back under National Assembly oversight (where it had been prior to December 2015, when the PSUV National Assembly scrambled to put it under Maduro's personal control, and 2) mandate that the bank publish economic information (inflation/scarcity rates) in a regular fashion. Both of those things are bad according to the TSJ, so the law was struck down.

It's a bit disturbing watching all the PSUV deputies and their supporters losing their minds over the Amnesty Law. Maduro and the PSUV have been adamant that the law will release murderers... except that murder isn't covered by the amnesty. Their go-to example is Leopoldo Lopez, but they conveniently forget that Lopez was not convicted of murder.

The law actually targets approximately 76 political prisoners in the country. Rather than having a law that says "The following 76 people are to be released from prison right now", the amnesty law instead covers the range of crimes the political prisoners were convicted of. To use the example of Leopoldo Lopez again, the man is currently serving a 14 year prison sentence for incitement to a crime, property damage, and another charge (I believe its conspiracy).

The icing on the cake is not only that Chavez was a convicted criminal who was once pardoned and released from prison himself (convicted over his role in the 1992 and sent to Yare prison, pardoned and released in 1994 by President Caldera), but that Chavez himself decreed and amnesty law in 2008. Chavez's amnesty law absolved people involved in the violence of April 2002 who were convicted of crimes involving the following events:

For the violent take-over of the Merida state governorship on April 12, 2002.
For the illegitimate detention [read: kidnapping] of Ramon Rodriguez Chacin, who was Minister of the Interior and Justice in April 2002.
For the crimes of incitement to a crime and military rebellion until December 2, 2007...
For the events that occurred on April 11, 2002 in Puente Llaguno, for all those crimes that were not crimes against humanity.

The list above is not complete. However, you can still see how Chavez's amnesty law absolved people of some of the same crimes that the current law outlines. That's kind of what an amnesty law is all about.

Of course, no one in the PSUV is publicly acknowledging any of this, because one of the mantras of the PSUV and its supporters is "It's only OK when we do it".

EDIT: Oh man. Apparently the people who are managing the Panama Pages contacted Weffer and asked him about his shell company in the Seychelles. This is what Weffer said:

quote:

Cruz Weffer denied ever having held shares in Univers Investments Ltd. "If you navigate the Internet, you can verify that the Seychelles are a group of islands in Africa, where I never was. Therefore, it is not possible that I could register any company in that place," he said. "You can easily check my trips abroad in the exit and entry records of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.'

His alibi is ironclad!

Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Apr 4, 2016

# ? Apr 3, 2016 23:48

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

The problem in this country is a social one, corruption at every level and an utter disregard for rules and the law across the whole population and involving people from every social level, it doesn't matter how poor or rich people are in this country, they simply don't think rules apply to them.

So far I haven't seen a single politician addressing this issue and as long as we keep having the same mentality we will always be a third world country.

# ? Apr 4, 2016 01:56

fnox: May 19, 2013

I don't think there is a solution to that problem. There is simply no way that Venezuela can rid itself of corruption, we need help from outside.

# ? Apr 4, 2016 02:28

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

It's not just corruption though, like I said people here don't think rules and laws apply to them, yesterday I was thinking about that while sitting at a stoplight and people kept running over red lights at every intersection, stoplights here have a screen with a countdown timer and it didn't matter if it showed just 5 seconds to go until it turned green people wouldn't stop for just 5 seconds for it to turn green, they HAD to run over the red light and you can see that sort of behavior in every aspect of life here.

# ? Apr 4, 2016 02:41

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

fnox posted:

I don't think there is a solution to that problem. There is simply no way that Venezuela can rid itself of corruption, we need help from outside.

The solution is to build private institutions and have them unleash government upon corruption which impacts their bottom lines, rather than having a government which unleases corruption upon institutions which impact its bottom line.

# ? Apr 4, 2016 02:52

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

Poland successfully beat low level corruption after they joined the EU. It took a decade but you no longer have to bribe your doctor or get shaken down by the cops at the end of the month. It doesn't eliminate it because corruption still exists at the top, but getting rid of the most visible corruption is key.

# ? Apr 4, 2016 07:55

Hugoon Chavez: Nov 4, 2011; THUNDERDOME LOSER

El Hefe posted:

The problem in this country is a social one, corruption at every level and an utter disregard for rules and the law across the whole population and involving people from every social level, it doesn't matter how poor or rich people are in this country, they simply don't think rules apply to them.

This is all too true, and even outside of Venezuela us Venezuelans are proud to boast how they game the system and break rules in their benefit. It's disgusting and makes me feel ashamed.

# ? Apr 4, 2016 11:03

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Demiurge4 posted:

Poland successfully beat low level corruption after they joined the EU. It took a decade but you no longer have to bribe your doctor or get shaken down by the cops at the end of the month. It doesn't eliminate it because corruption still exists at the top, but getting rid of the most visible corruption is key.

Yup. Both developing and developed countries have corruption, it's that developed countries mostly don't have the "bribe an official to do their job" kind of corruption (instead, it's usually "bribe an official to NOT do their job").

# ? Apr 4, 2016 21:44

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

meanwhile in congress...

# ? Apr 8, 2016 20:16

BeigeJacket: Jul 21, 2005

Who/what the gently caress is that?

# ? Apr 8, 2016 22:51

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

The (not so) Secret Police, government approved thugs and murderers.

# ? Apr 8, 2016 23:24

Saladman: Jan 12, 2010

Why is she wearing her pistol like it's a messenger bag? The strap is so long it looks like she stole it from a giant.

Also is that your photo? I tineyed it and nothing turned up, which I guess means she has a picture of you taking a picture of her. I hope you're generic-looking.

# ? Apr 9, 2016 00:32

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

There was a bomb alert in the Asamblea Nacional so they evacuated the building and that lady was taking pictures of the reporters and everyone else who was there, one of the reporters took the pic.

# ? Apr 9, 2016 00:47

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

So Borneo Jimmy, now that Caro is confirmed alive and well, why exactly haven't you gone to Venezuela to help the Chavistas in their noble fight against the CIA/Jew Lizard/Moon People Conspiracy?

# ? Apr 9, 2016 01:00

fnox: May 19, 2013

I am seriously now loving worried at the possibility that the Guri Dam will reach critical water levels and stop producing sufficient power for the country. I mean, it already doesn't produce enough, but if it shuts down completely we're looking at week long blackouts, and Maduro's loving measures are absolutely insane, he just declared every Friday to be a holiday as an apparent way to reduce electricity consumption.

# ? Apr 9, 2016 02:23

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

There's absolutely no way he can make it to December, the country will absolutely collapse by then unless Saudi Arabia gets invaded by Russia and El Ni�o gives us a deluge.

# ? Apr 9, 2016 02:34

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

El Hefe posted:

There's absolutely no way he can make it to December, the country will absolutely collapse by then unless Saudi Arabia gets invaded by Russia and El Niño gives us a deluge.

Of course he can, in a 28 to 3 ruling your courts will dictate that your National Assembly is meeting illegally and must be dispursed from the hall by any force necessary.

The answer to Maduro is clear: The leaders of your national assembly need to man the gently caress up and repeat the most dramatic moment of Roman history.

# ? Apr 9, 2016 02:36

Chuck Boone: Feb 12, 2009; El Turpial

On Wednesday, some MUD deputies walked over to the CNE offices to hand in the required paperwork requesting the body (which is in charge of elections in the country) start the recall referendum process against Maduro.

A group of PSUV supporters showed up and tried to stop the deputies (and their group of supporters) from reaching the CNE building. There were small clashes as the two sides threw stones and other objects at each other. La Patilla has pictures and videos from the event here.

On the Guri dam: the dam (which is the third largest on earth) produces about 65% of the country's electricity. The drought affecting the region is drying it up, through. On Tuesday, the Ministry of Electrical Energy announced that the water level at the dam was sitting at 243.94 meters above sea level. This is the lowest level ever recorded at the dam in its entire history.

The two previous records for "Lowest Level Ever" recorded at the dam were measured on May 10, 2002 and May 11, 2010.

The figure is alarming for two reasons. First, a water level below 244 meters above sea level will cause potentially catastrophic damage to the turbines due to the way the water flows into them. From what I understand, a level that low will allow air into the turbines, which can cause the damage. Second, the plant will no longer be able to operate once the water level hits 240 meters above sea level. At that point, the water level will be so low that it won't be able to flow into the turbines.

On Wednesday, Maduro made a really bizarre speech even by his standards in which he announced that all public sector employees (except those working for critical sectors like health care and policing) would enjoy three-day weekends until June 6. The measure is intended to save electricity because instead of going to their offices, the workers will stay home and presumably not use any electricity there all day.

Maduro also put forward the following measure in order to help tackle the electricity crisis. Before you read this, though, remember this: the president of a country said this on live television in real life:

quote:

I know that you can twist [this suggestion] because hair dryers are now used as a standard by women (�) use hair dryers only half the time over these next 60 days. Can you do that, women? What do you think? (�) Clothes dryers and [hair dryers] are strong, high consumers [of electricity], as are irons. We have to raise awareness about this (...) I�ve always thought that a woman looks more beautiful when she combs her hair with her fingers, and when she lets her hair dry out naturally. That�s what I think and that�s what I�m proposing to women. What do you think?

# ? Apr 9, 2016 02:52

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Chuck Boone posted:

On Wednesday, some MUD deputies walked over to the CNE offices to hand in the required paperwork requesting the body (which is in charge of elections in the country) start the recall referendum process against Maduro.

A group of PSUV supporters showed up and tried to stop the deputies (and their group of supporters) from reaching the CNE building. There were small clashes as the two sides threw stones and other objects at each other. La Patilla has pictures and videos from the event here.

On the Guri dam: the dam (which is the third largest on earth) produces about 65% of the country's electricity. The drought affecting the region is drying it up, through. On Tuesday, the Ministry of Electrical Energy announced that the water level at the dam was sitting at 243.94 meters above sea level. This is the lowest level ever recorded at the dam in its entire history.

The two previous records for "Lowest Level Ever" recorded at the dam were measured on May 10, 2002 and May 11, 2010.

The figure is alarming for two reasons. First, a water level below 244 meters above sea level will cause potentially catastrophic damage to the turbines due to the way the water flows into them. From what I understand, a level that low will allow air into the turbines, which can cause the damage. Second, the plant will no longer be able to operate once the water level hits 240 meters above sea level. At that point, the water level will be so low that it won't be able to flow into the turbines.

On Wednesday, Maduro made a really bizarre speech even by his standards in which he announced that all public sector employees (except those working for critical sectors like health care and policing) would enjoy three-day weekends until June 6. The measure is intended to save electricity because instead of going to their offices, the workers will stay home and presumably not use any electricity there all day.

Maduro also put forward the following measure in order to help tackle the electricity crisis. Before you read this, though, remember this: the president of a country said this on live television in real life:

Where does drinking water come from in Venezuela?

One can live without electricity. One cannot live without water.

# ? Apr 9, 2016 02:55

Neophyte: Apr 23, 2006; perennially; Taco Defender

My Imaginary GF posted:

The answer to Maduro is clear: The leaders of your national assembly need to man the gently caress up and repeat the most dramatic moment of Roman history.

They need to lose three legions in the Teutoburg forest? :hist101:

# ? Apr 9, 2016 03:06

Chuck Boone: Feb 12, 2009; El Turpial

My Imaginary GF posted:

Where does drinking water come from in Venezuela?

Others will probably be able to answer this better than I can, because I'm not as familiar with the water system as I am with the electrical one (and I'm not extremely familiar with that, either).

Your question does remind me of a video I saw back in February. It was taken in Valencia, Carabobo state, and it shows the state of the city's water supply. The video is here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVAiQlFf6hQ) and my translation is below:

quote:

Cameraman: Alright. Here's the water that the people of La Bocaina and Federacion [neighborhoods in the center of the city] here in Valencia, Carabobo state. These are crystalline waters. This is potable water for us. This is thanks to President Maburro [a play on words that combines Maduro's name with the word for donkey, "burro"]. Look how delicious it is! How can anyone not get sick here? This is our water, Valencia water. From Valencia to the world! This is really good water, this water that we drink

Anecdotally, I remember 1) seeing brown/black water coming out of the taps in my grandma's house (she lives in Valencia) going back as far as eight years ago, and 2) losing water service for hours at a time, unannounced, or having it trickle in drops out of the taps.

Neophyte posted:

They need to lose three legions in the Teutoburg forest?

Ha! I thought, "find a farmer, beg him to become dictator so he can solve the crisis, and then when he solves it see him walk back to his field and go back to being a farmer?".

# ? Apr 9, 2016 03:10

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

My Imaginary GF posted:

Where does drinking water come from in Venezuela?

One can live without electricity. One cannot live without water.

The vast majority of the population has no access to clean water, even people living in the most expensive buildings or houses have to hire water trucks so they can have water at home.

# ? Apr 9, 2016 03:10

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

El Hefe posted:

The vast majority of the population has no access to clean water, even people living in the most expensive buildings or houses have to hire water trucks so they can have water at home.

Where do the water trucks get their water from?

Chuck Boone posted:

Ha! I thought, "find a farmer, beg him to become dictator so he can solve the crisis, and then when he solves it see him walk back to his field and go back to being a farmer?".

Quick Billy, to the Cartermobile!

# ? Apr 9, 2016 03:14

hypnorotic: May 4, 2009

Venezuela really could use a Cincinnatus.

# ? Apr 9, 2016 03:17

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

My Imaginary GF posted:

Where do the water trucks get their water from?

Somewhere dirty

I imagine if someone from a first world country came here and drank our tap water they'd get the shits for a week

# ? Apr 9, 2016 03:19

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

El Hefe posted:

Somewhere dirty

I imagine if someone from a first world country came here and drank our tap water they'd get the shits for a week

So, I assume they get it somewhere dirty, use electricity to boil it, and then sell it clean?

If so, seems like a bit of an issue should electricity ever fail.

Also seems an issue if the dirty water runs out.

Man, Venezuela is like SimCity2000 when you cut road funding, but for an entire country

# ? Apr 9, 2016 03:22

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# ? May 18, 2024 02:24

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

Oh no dude they bring that poo poo dirty as hell and people have to beg them to get service too, it's better to have dirty water than no water at all after all.

# ? Apr 9, 2016 03:26

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Venezuela: The Empanada Summit

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