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Nurgle: lives in a garbage can Tzeentch: an indecisive mollusk Khorne: an angry paraplegic Slaanesh: never went to rehab Cegorach: is a loving clown Khaine: is freaking dead Isha: IS a garbage can The nightbringer: has no friends The deceiver: just straight up an idiot Easiest description of major Warhammer gods courtesy of the text to speech series
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Apr 9, 2016 00:06
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Arcsquad12 posted:Nurgle: lives in a garbage can Nice list ya got there... Sure would be a shame if it got Gorked and Morked.
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Apr 9, 2016 00:06
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ZearothK posted:I suspect Wood Elves will come along with Beastmen when they expand the map with forest holdings for those two to fight over, because I just can't see the former occupying human cities or holds. Perhaps something similar to Vampire Corruption? The forest rises!
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Apr 9, 2016 00:15
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Perestroika posted:Wood elves are cool and awesome This guy knows the correct hierarchy of elves.
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Apr 9, 2016 00:41
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. High and Dark elves can go drown, tho.
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Nash posted:This guy knows the correct hierarchy of elves. Bullshit. It's Emo, Posh, then Hippie.
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Apr 9, 2016 00:44
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Dandywalken posted:Nice list ya got there... *The Horned Rat cackles gleefully in the background, poking everyone with his horns and trying to start poo poo.*
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Apr 9, 2016 00:47
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Tarquinn posted:Bullshit. They aren't hippies. They're the things lurking in the dark that devour hippies who try to commune with nature a bit too closely.
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Apr 9, 2016 00:47
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my dad posted:They aren't hippies. They're the things lurking in the dark that devour hippies who try to commune with nature a bit too closely. Drug dealers...?
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Apr 9, 2016 00:49
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My favorite part is when they let people in their LSD forest for 10 minutes then let them out. They proceed to laugh because the person has somehow aged 3000 years instantly and drops dead.
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Apr 9, 2016 00:52
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the wood elves are secretly as confused and terrified by athel loren as everyone else, they're just too haughty to admit it the biggest "i totally meant to do that" of the warhammer world
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Apr 9, 2016 01:04
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Are there any at least tolerable books one could read to learn more about the setting?
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Apr 9, 2016 03:02
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Maaaaybe some of the Gotrek and Felix ones? At the very least, the ones in which they fight Skaven are tolerable? Haven't had an opportunity to read one in years, though, so take this with a grain of salt.
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Apr 9, 2016 03:36
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malhavok posted:Are there any at least tolerable books one could read to learn more about the setting? Riders of the Dead by Dan Abnett. Very relevant as well since it's about a pair of pistoliers/lancers from the Empire who go north to fight Chaos. And yea, the Gotrek and Felix books are ok on the whole.
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Apr 9, 2016 03:43
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This Nurgle derail has me regretting not posting this in my "how to not make Chaos a homogeneous blob of dark armourmans":
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Apr 9, 2016 03:53
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Has there been any information on the multiplayer? I don't expect it to be balanced at launch judging by previous CA titles. I was wondering if they allow war gear on non heroic units and if maps have objectives. Shogun 2 had objectives and it actively stopped people from camping their deployment. Also symmetrical maps would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Apr 9, 2016 03:55
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Syrnn posted:This Nurgle derail has me regretting not posting this in my "how to not make Chaos a homogeneous blob of dark armourmans": Oh, thats right! Nurgle had that funky carnival/travelling thing going on too in early editions, right?
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Apr 9, 2016 04:01
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I wonder if playing as Chaos will result in you forcing to pick a specific God for your legendary lord to follow, which then grants you access to some God-specific units and maybe a slight different flavor to your playstyle.
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Apr 9, 2016 04:14
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If so, to make it good the end result of your campaign would be some appropriately ironic 'reward' appropriate to their Devil's Bargain. The only way to get a good ending would be for your Lord to transcend space and time (by beating all four campaigns), thus satisfying the whims of all of his patrons. God drat it, now I just want to scrap the Chaos Gods for Mantorok, Xel'lotath, Ulyaoth, and Chatturguh.
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Apr 9, 2016 04:23
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Dandywalken posted:Oh, thats right! Nurgle had that funky carnival/travelling thing going on too in early editions, right? That's actually of of the factions of the game, Mordheim. The Carnival of Chaos who are yes, Nurgle worshippers.
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Apr 9, 2016 05:22
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having chaos take on the aesthetics of early modern weirdo subcultures would be fun. they're alright when someone decides to study weird gnostic/metaphysic stuff and go hog wild rather than just having them be refugees from a DnD pantheon. i always found their weakness as a group came from the duel problems of their gods being such overpowering influences on the rest of the faction while being intentionally one-dimensional cardboard cutouts and having really uninteresting theology, and the whole problem with a lot of fantasy land factions where rather than ascribing group behavior to norms or habitues, race wide behavior is instead some ingrained characteristic shared by everyone to the point of absurdity. so chaos characters often just wind up being this sort of single note figure with no conflict going on with them aside from hating some group or having some gimmick to them (this is also why I think a lot of people get a huge bug up their rear end about how "CHARACTER WOULD NEVER DO x BECAUSE THEYRE A y" poo poo) it is also why, imo, human factions in fictional game settings are often ridiculously dull since writers don't really understand history/culture beyond broad strokes and so just kind of create some bland amalgamation of modern norms and misconceptions of medieval society and there's no single thing they can use to caricature every character beyond poo poo like "uh they're... ambitious???". part of the reason i liked the Warhammer Fantasy setting was that the Empire was actually pretty distinct and interesting despite being a bunch of humans. not to say there are not some good characters among chaos or strong writers capable of making interesting stuff (like that one example of a chaos city that exists based on the inherent absurdity of its existence or chaos gods as more aspects/forces and bound by rules rather than some gods as arbitrarily powerful agents deal). more that the whole faction really lends itself to maximum grimdark and not much else.
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Apr 9, 2016 06:56
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I was going to write a really long, detailed reply to this, but you know what, it's simple. This is a setting that started off as a Lord of the Rings pastiche, and the main factions were all parodies of a sect of British society. The footy hooligans, the working class miners, the rich toffs, etc. From there, it's grown into a pretty rich world as far as high-fantasy goes, and still keeps it fun. None of the factions are realistic or have realistic characters, largely because even now at the height a GW idiocy, everything is waaaaaay over the loving top. I do hate the simplification of the Chaos gods from their original ideas, but hey, I get to play as the big armored dudes that for the most part look to have inspired the big armoued dudes from almost everything else. This ain't no Game of Thrones, and while I largely like low-fantasy settings more, the Warhammer World is the only high-fantasy setting to ever really draw me in, largely because of fun and rats. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 07:42
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Yeah I mean I'm being a bit silly about explaining what I mean because I'm bad at describing it and am probably objectively wrong about things. I'm not trying to claim stuff needs to be complex or anything since simple things are pretty much always better than overwrought things, but it does need to have something to it that gives it something, for lack of a better word, "relatable"? Like Ryu from Street Fighter is a very simple, straightforward character, but he represents something more; the whole wandering warrior aesthetic, the karateka, the whole mas oyama story. Orks got a good thing like this too, they're orcs but since they got the soccer hooligan aspect there's a lot to draw from. You kind of know what an ork "is" and can imagine how their society is and such without having to detail some five thousand year history, since they've built on things people already have a connection to. It contributes to their sense of "timelessness". A bad thing is like those innumerable "foo elf" things DnD came up with, which are just "elves except from space/the ocean/from the salt plane" or whatever or whatever collection of random gimmicks, and even if you try to write a bunch of overwrought background to them, there's no depth, no real greater cultural resonance or anything for someone to work with. Chaos in WHF ain't as bad as I'm treating them, I just like shittalking them since their whole aesthetic is something I find boring. Compare them to, say, Sigmaries, who really suffer from the "overwrought backstory with nothing actually interesting about them" problem that instantly turns people off when they see them after being used to the Empire. I also just like thinking of the reasons why, for instance, the whole Tolkien elf/orc/dwarf thing is so common and played with while all sorts of other attempts to create races fall real flat.
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Apr 9, 2016 08:19
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I always found fantasy races a thing for lazy writers to lean on, since in most fiction there is usually no reason why they couldn't simply be humans of a different culture, as opposed to aloft-humans-with-pointy-ears or short-greedy-and-stubborn-humans. It just comes out as this weird racial determinism that people had in the late 19th/early 20th centuries that is really out of place nowadays.
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Apr 9, 2016 09:25
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ZearothK posted:I always found fantasy races a thing for lazy writers to lean on, since in most fiction there is usually no reason why they couldn't simply be humans of a different culture, as opposed to aloft-humans-with-pointy-ears or short-greedy-and-stubborn-humans. It just comes out as this weird racial determinism that people had in the late 19th/early 20th centuries that is really out of place nowadays. this is the warcraft movie thread right now
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Apr 9, 2016 09:57
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Why are we debating the literary merits of a tabletop game geared towards lonely teenage nerds
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Apr 9, 2016 10:44
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edit: ^^^ forums dot something awful dot com, that's why ^^^ (also formatting)ZearothK posted:I always found fantasy races a thing for lazy writers to lean on, since in most fiction there is usually no reason why they couldn't simply be humans of a different culture, as opposed to aloft-humans-with-pointy-ears or short-greedy-and-stubborn-humans. It just comes out as this weird racial determinism that people had in the late 19th/early 20th centuries that is really out of place nowadays. It really depends on how fantasy races are handled as per the function the storyteller gives them. I mean the idea of elves, dwarves, and goblins is understood in racialized language now because that's how we react to them being described as "a race". If we go back to the Lord of the Rings (  which should not be regarded as the sole foundation of modern Fantasy fiction) it is intentionally serving to be a mythopoetic epic after the stylings of Beowulf. It's less easy to think in a racialized schema when you instead are reading mythology; you cannot easily say that álfar or kobolds or fairies have qualities of racial determinism, because they are there to serve the purpose of personifying the supernatural world, of showing esoteric sympathies. In a rational world, we don't really have much of a use for those kinds of dressings, but we still tell fiction and use allegory and attempt to teach mores and morals through story as a device; what we have to teach just happens to no longer be "if you go into the forest alone you will die".The reason modern fantasy fiction originally had Elves are Elves is because they are a personification of goodly civilization primeval; that Dwarfs are Dwarfs is to be cautionary about greed or stubbornness; or that Wizards are Wizards are to be men who are themselves supernatural, just as the stories we borrowed them from. A lot of that gets rather cocked up when you're roleplaying that you are Elves or Dwarves or Wizards because we can't come to a clear consensus about something that isn't supposed to exist in the mundane world. If someone asks whether or not elves poop, all I have to wonder is what story about poop is so important you have to use elves to tell it? Basically, because we like to put a veneer of literal reality onto these things, we expect Hercules to have a lifting limit or that the total horsepower of Freyja's chariot cats is knowable. It isn't to say that fantasy creatures aren't used to transmit ideas that come from conceptions of race: Pathfinder seems to celebrate in itself a kind of cosmopolitan multiculturalism about the races and how they interact, because that resonates with the experiences of 'hip, liberal' sensibilities of people who tend to write or like fantasy fiction today. All this tells me is that we have a lot to say about the ideas of race that are part of social reality here and don't have an outlet sufficient to articulate what we ant to say, so SURPRISE! When we attempt to use fantastical, supernatural elements to talk about them we resort to tokenism at best and racial determinism at worst. Without wanting to give people who write trashy fantasy fiction more credit than they deserve, it is still somewhat telling that we are so comfortable using the supernatural to try to express ideas racially and how powerful it is as a modern superstition. Besides, I read that book you're talking about : it's called The Belgariad, by David Eddings, and Drasnians and Cherek and Murgos do not make the story any more interesting or likeable or believable than Elves or Dwarves or... uh... Well, Murgos are thinly veiled evil Muslims. God drat it, David Eddings. Syrnn fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 11:21
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I'm weak and so I'm probably going to pre-order. The question is where to get it at a reasonable price. I found a 22% off gmg voucher but it expired so I'm still looking.
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Apr 9, 2016 11:42
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malhavok posted:Are there any at least tolerable books one could read to learn more about the setting? The nagash series is actually pretty cool, and Liber Necris is decent. I recently read Van Horstmann and it wasn't bad. Just don't read any end times books they are all poo poo.
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Apr 9, 2016 12:24
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https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=fj05Ll1Mark That Siege AI livestream just wrapped up. The start is the same as the slides I posted a while back but the siege battle at the end is well worth checking out. (Chaos AI attacking Player Vampire city)
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Apr 9, 2016 12:45
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malhavok posted:Are there any at least tolerable books one could read to learn more about the setting? The short story in the Vampire Wars omnibus is a great Vlad von Carsten vs Chaos tale.
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Apr 9, 2016 14:56
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Tiler Kiwi posted:i always found their weakness as a group came from the duel problems of their gods being such overpowering influences on the rest of the faction while being intentionally one-dimensional cardboard cutouts This will always be the biggest problem with Chaos. The Gods are micromanaging douchebags.
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Apr 9, 2016 15:13
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Night10194 posted:This will always be the biggest problem with Chaos. The Gods are micromanaging douchebags. On the plus side, this is why they will never win. Right guys? ..........right 
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Apr 9, 2016 15:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgf4h1aJYqc If you just want to watch the new siege battle by itself. It's interesting since they explain all the AI actions in terms of it's programming and shows off some units we haven't seen in game previously. (Chaos Spawn, Chaos Dragon) Earlier in the presentation he said they had 12 city layouts "that look completely different between factions" I'm going to read that as 12 total layouts and not 12 layouts per race, as I can't see the latter ever happening. Wall destruction is in though it looks weird animation-wise, may just not be polished yet. madmac fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 16:04
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Im the sad giant glitching out into the door
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Apr 9, 2016 16:10
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Kokoro Wish posted:*The Horned Rat cackles gleefully in the background, poking everyone with his horns and trying to start poo poo.* The Horned Rat is Stampy. "Some animals are just jerks."
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Apr 9, 2016 16:12
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They really have been moving away from the constant spear stacks of Shogun, granted mostly due to the subject matter they have been going into. It will be interesting to see how the "triangle" of effectiveness changes
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Apr 9, 2016 16:13
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madmac posted:Earlier in the presentation he said they had 12 city layouts "that look completely different between factions" I'm going to read that as 12 total layouts and not 12 layouts per race, as I can't see the latter ever happening. The sad thing is I know people are going to lose their loving minds over "12 LAYOUTS!11>?", which is dumb. I'd much rather have 12 layouts that the AI can exploit enough to give a challenge then infinite layouts that the AI can't navigate and end up cramming into one easily-defended gate.
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Apr 9, 2016 16:16
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MadJackMcJack posted:The sad thing is I know people are going to lose their loving minds over "12 LAYOUTS!11>?", which is dumb. I'd much rather have 12 layouts that the AI can exploit enough to give a challenge then infinite layouts that the AI can't navigate and end up cramming into one easily-defended gate. Infinite layouts that can all be approached by finding a single chokepoint and forting it gives one possible battle. 12 layouts that it can work with and vary tactics based on its forces gives a lot more potential variety.
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Apr 9, 2016 16:20
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Yeah if it means that finally the AI will be able to siege without spazzing out and getting stuck on the walls/gate then bring on the siege changes! I'm just glad their willing to try and change things.
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Apr 9, 2016 16:20
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Robutt posted:Yeah if it means that finally the AI will be able to siege without spazzing out and getting stuck on the walls/gate then bring on the siege changes! I'm just glad their willing to try and change things. It probably won't matter if the player has a lot of ranged weaponry. The AI can attack cleverly all it wants but it will still take huge damage just getting to the walls, the main change I can see from this game is that tower defenses have infinite range within their cone of fire so now it's the player who is going to feel the pain since he can't just sit back and blow 20 holes in the wall before attacking. I imagine people will just choose to wait out the siege in most cases now.
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Apr 9, 2016 16:27
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