|
The fiction of AoS is a big draw for you?
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 09:43 |
|
|
What merits?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:09
|
|
|
Honestly? A little bit. I like Black Library books for 40k, and while there definitely aren't excellent books for Age of Sigmar, there's a fiction and an evolving world that could be something. It gives me a further way to interact with the game that I like.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:12
|
|
|
Hiro Protagonist posted:Deadzone looks cool, but there doesnt seem to be much of a world, you know? AoS has the scalability, accessibility, fiction, community, and models to me. There are problems, but my interest in it isn't some sort of blind devotion to Games Workshop, but because, while not perfect, it meets some real requirements for me. And, I will admit, I don't necessarily assume AoS is a long term solution to my miniature game needs. I may move to something else, and would be willing to look into other games in my area if someone come up with something that also hits my major points. But I don't think it's a game without merits or a game I should be ashamed to play, and I wanted to come here in the hopes I could go about making a thread for more discussion about it. I don't know how to respond to that 
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:13
|
|
|
lenoon posted:What merits? Or Scalability ? (When the rules say put down models until you want to stop or run out of space... and if you stop, the other guy can still fill up the avaliable space) The Models ? Really ? Sigmarines and BloodBlooders ? (edit) Hiro Protagonist posted:there's a fiction and an evolving world that could be something. It gives me a further way to interact with the game that I like. That's also most other systems- Warmachine, Malifeaux and DropZone all advance the story while adding new stuff (An entire new faction for DZC) - the new Infinity book is due shortly, so we'll see what that does to the setting... AoS doing this isn't a Good thing, it's just that 40k and 8th Didn't do it is Bad. Renfield fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Apr 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:13
|
|
|
I've been paying unfortunately close attention to the fiction of Age of Sigmar and I can not explain why the factions are fighting, where they are physically located, where anything is, how anything happened, why the Stormcasts are the good guys, why Slaanesh got removed, why Malekith fused with his dragon and became a smoke ghost, why the Lizardmen are now order daemons using the same name as Malekith's dragon, or indeed any other aspect of the setting. Whenever I've tried to explain the game to others all I can do is wave my hands in frustration and and say that the gold guys are fighting the blood guys for some reason on a reality ball in space? I think?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:18
|
|
|
What is a reality ball? I do not know. But it is where Age of Sigmar is happening.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:19
|
|
|
If you're interested in cool models and creating narratives with friends, Frostgrave is probably one of the best choices out there. I don't know how large you could scale up with it, but you're actively encouraged to use any models you like, so you could easily pick up some that work in another game (e.g. Kings of War). While the balance in Frostgrave isn't perfect, its campaign mechanics give you a good reason to play multiple games and to change things up so you're not just playing the same battle over and over. Even though GW's rules are "free", their scenarios are not; you have to shell out for some incredibly expensive books for those. Compare: Frostgrave has a full, pre-built campaign (Thaw of the Lich Lord) for $18 ($13 for a PDF), while a GW Battletome is around $50. The battletomes usually only contain a couple of scenarios anyway. If you like having good, official backstory, you've got stuff like Dark Age (post-apocalyptic warbands in a distant future), Malifaux (steampunk poo poo with an associated RPG), Warmachine (different steampunk poo poo with an associated RPG), or Infinity (anime poo poo). All those except Warmachine have the benefit of having super-cool miniatures too. There's also Gates of Antares, designed by Rick Priestley, the original 40k designer. Of course, if you're willing to wait and see while AoS starts filling in the gaps of its backstory, Deadzone might still be a good choice: it's pretty new, and Mantic has expressed a desire to flesh things out. They just got a bit sidetracked with both Kings of War (to get all the WHFB exiles) and their Walking Dead game (to get that fat Walky Dead money). Avenging Dentist fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Apr 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:20
|
|
|
What is going on today? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:25
|
|
|
Safety Factor posted:What is going on today? Someone likes an Unapproved Game and we must rectify that. (Personally I don't care if people play AoS as long as they're not paying GW for the privilege. But there are certainly better games out there.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:26
|
|
|
Skellybones posted:The fiction of AoS is a big draw for you? Devil's advocate, if you stripped out the parts that are intended to appeal to unironic fascists and/or sociopaths, and ignored the fact that it replaced a previous setting that was much richer and better developed, I can see where the charm of AoS's setting might lie. The problem is that it's obviously a lot of effort to get there and you still have the issue that other games have done/are doing it better (Planescape and any of its spiritual descendants).
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:26
|
|
|
Don't let the anime aspect of Infinity put you off too much, I'd painted about 3-4 models before I saw the 2d artwork and realised it was supposed to be anime themed (I don't like anime)  It's a legit fast paced good game with no waiting around or pretending to ride imaginary horses. I also possibly may have been drunk or misheard but didn't the Mantic guy interviewed at adepticon hint at a Skirmish level KoW variant super secret project, much in the same vein as Firefight/Warpath. Not giving GW money has been great for me as so far I've picked up the Infinity Starter set, X-Wing Starter, Imperial Assault and the KoW 2 player set for less than I paid on my last GW army. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:40
|
|
|
richyp posted:I also possibly may have been drunk or misheard but didn't the Mantic guy interviewed at adepticon hint at a Skirmish level KoW variant super secret project, much in the same vein as Firefight/Warpath. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMB_FzQ703A&t=422s
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:43
|
|
|
JerryLee posted:Devil's advocate, if you stripped out the parts that are intended to appeal to unironic fascists and/or sociopaths, and ignored the fact that it replaced a previous setting that was much richer and better developed, I can see where the charm of AoS's setting might lie. The problem is that it's obviously a lot of effort to get there and you still have the issue that other games have done/are doing it better (Planescape and any of its spiritual descendants). But aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:53
|
|
|
Thought so, being drunk at the time was still very likely though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:54
|
|
|
Skellybones posted:I've been paying unfortunately close attention to the fiction of Age of Sigmar and I can not explain why the factions are fighting...
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 22:58
|
|
|
Hiro Protagonist posted:Deadzone looks cool, but there doesnt seem to be much of a world, you know? AoS has the scalability, accessibility, fiction, community, and models to me. There are problems, but my interest in it isn't some sort of blind devotion to Games Workshop, but because, while not perfect, it meets some real requirements for me. And, I will admit, I don't necessarily assume AoS is a long term solution to my miniature game needs. I may move to something else, and would be willing to look into other games in my area if someone come up with something that also hits my major points. But I don't think it's a game without merits or a game I should be ashamed to play, and I wanted to come here in the hopes I could go about making a thread for more discussion about it. Hey there, hope you don't feel like I'm dog piling you when I say this. But I think if you get into AoS seriously, you're going to be disappointed by the lack of depth in game play and in the lack of depth in the miniature range, and in the fiction surrounding them. The releases, both in terms of artwork and fluff, have been consistently bad to awful. The artwork is bad from a technical perspective, and the fluff is written with poor grammar and even worse an apparent lack of imagination. This is supposed to be the new flagship product of GW and it is truly dull. They scrapped WHFB, it's history, it's rules, it's fluff, and increasingly it's models. And replaced them with models that don't really conform to any sort of scale, that lack any sort of dynamics, and are all essentially faceless "good" guys or "bad" guys. If you're expecting this to turn around on the fluff front, which you admit is not great, I would ask you to consider why you think that. Again, they built a golden statue for their new game and changed the iconography on their headquarters. This is supposed to be their flagship game, and the apparent apathy in their writing is honestly shocking. You could get GW fanboys to write you something better on a fanfiction site than you could from GW official and that seems to be the way they want it. If anything, it has been getting worse with every release because you're actually getting to see the layers of this terrible onion. If AoS is the only wargame in your location, or the only people you have spoken to about wargaming. I would encourage you to find a local facebook group for other games. Or check out the websites for other games as they will often have directories of their regional demo guys (whatever the companies will call them), and these people would absoultely love to talk to you about their games and run you through a demo. The local "warcors" for Infinity in my area are fantastic, enthusiastic, and fun to play against. I too, don't think you should feel ashamed for your choice of game. But I think you're going to feel some buyers remorse when you realize that the game you've chosen to invest your money and most importantly your time into is nothing more than a cynical attempt to push a copyrightable brand resting on the laurels of the companies past success. And there are plenty of people in this very thread who will tell you how they tried to like it for months, and have played hundreds of games. GW is a company that is coasting by on it's own reputation. Personally I really got into Infinity when I stopped playing GW games. But I've got my eyes on a few other games once I've got my current collections painted up to the standard I want. I really think there are a lot of games other than AoS that will scratch the same itch you've got. And I really, really think that they will do it 100 times better than AoS. You've just got to take a bit more time investigating the alternatives. There are games with tightly written rules that are fast paced and fun. Games that are designed to be played competitively or in a more relaxed setting. AoS was at best, and even then only arguably, designed at all. If you really feel that AoS is the game for you then more power to you. Shine on you crazy dyamynd. Sir Teabag fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Apr 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 23:09
|
|
|
Okay, that's fair. Also, thanks for not saying it like I'm crazy. I'm gonna look at other games in the area; I might play something else, I'll look into some of the things you guys have suggested, though who knows, maybe I'm the perfect storm of poo poo taste that likes Age of Sigmar. Also, as much as it may not seem like it, I am understanding what this thread is saying, I just wanted to try and make my reasoning clear.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 23:15
|
|
|
Hiro Protagonist posted:Okay, that's fair. Also, thanks for not saying it like I'm crazy. I'm gonna look at other games in the area; I might play something else, I'll look into some of the things you guys have suggested, though who knows, maybe I'm the perfect storm of poo poo taste that likes Age of Sigmar. Also, as much as it may not seem like it, I am understanding what this thread is saying, I just wanted to try and make my reasoning clear. Again, I hope you don't think I was dog piling! But I've heard nothing but good about Frost Grave, Saga, Dungeon Saga, and Malifaux. And if you're in to sci-fi I would recommend Infinity because it plays like nothing else I've tried so far. Good luck!
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 23:18
|
|
|
Hopefully no one in this thread is actually upset at you for not hating AoS. For my part, I just want to help people be informed consumers, since GW is a bad company by a lot of different measures. 40k in particular is such a slog that for a long time, I thought I just didn't like tabletop games. And this was back before they added all the hilariously-expensive superheavy models and formations and crap rules designed to increase their profits. GW thrives on consumers' ignorance. If you actually know what the state of tabletop wargaming at large is like and still choose AoS, I don't really have a problem with that. (Although I would still disagree.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 23:21
|
|
|
I think we (in the thread at least) seam so angry is we've all invested a lot of time and money in GW (Disclaimer- I'd not played WFB since 3rd, but played 40k until 7th hit). I am actually angry that I wasted so much time on a Bad game when I could have been playing more enjoyable games. You can have fun playing anything, but with the same crowd, playing a better game is going to be more fun than rolling 3+/4+. My group started on Warmachine, and had the local pressganger (demo-guy) come down, which was different (compaired to GW)... we started on Malifeaux, although that was usually at the end of the evening after everyone had been drinking, so I'm sure we got everything wrong - drat nice minis though. I'm now near a Major FLGS (one of the Big Three in the UK), so can play pretty much anything going - and took part in a DropZone escalator where the makers showed up twice - once at the start, and again at the end to run a tourny day. It makes a Major difference if you can ask the Main playtest guy for a rules adjuication in a game ! Enjoy AoS for what it is - a game for friends who arrange what there gonna play ahead of time, and don't mind who wins or not. But look around your area to see what else is being played - most groups welcome new players, and the 'main' systems have demo-guys (Warma-Hoards, Malifeaux, Infinity all do, at least !) - you might well find something that you enjoy, with a lower cost-of-entry than GW stuff. Or X-Wangs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 23:24
|
|
|
The good thing about rulesets like Frostgrave is that they are perfectly playable with your AoS miniatures. I can 100% understand a person who has a bunch of GW fantasy miniatures that they like, and don't want to invest in something new. "Just play Infinity instead" is not a good recommendation in that case. However, you can perfectly well play a game of Frostgrave with your Sigmarites. Also, you don't have to convince everyone to abandon AoS just because you'd like to test something new. Just make a deal that you'll play AoS this week, and then you'll try out Frostgrave next week. Then you can play whichever you guys feel like from then on. It's all good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2016 23:24
|
|
|
If you want to go mega-cheap and still push stuff around a tabletop, Drivethru's minis affiliate has a huge number of cardboard stand-up dudes you can print out and mess around with. That could be another way to ease into the hobby and try the dozen different rules systems that have cropped up in this thread without having to drop hundreds of bucks up front; for the price of a box of sigmarines and a trip to kinko's, you could have enough stuff put together for three or four Frostgrave warbands.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 00:15
|
|
|
please stop trolling Hiro Protagonist
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 03:10
|
|
|
Moola posted:please stop trolling Hiro Protagonist not sure if nominative or vocative case
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 03:15
|
|
|
Avenging Dentist posted:not sure if nominative or vocative case Surely it's accusative
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 03:33
|
|
|
spectralent posted:This thing is interesting to me because the other day I realised that, despite the goodness of a lot of rulesets like WMH and Malifaux, being good at them is a largely untransferrable skill based around knowing the specifics of the meta-interactions different special rules have. Conversely, and while it's probably not fair to compare two of the most outre fantasy wargames to historicals, I feel like I'd be reasonably good pushing around tanks in any WW2 game. I think I probably need to mull it over more; I do wonder if it's a factor of those two games specifically, though. In particular I'm kind of interested in if KoW plays really weird; it sounds like it's got a lot of transferrable skill with Warhammer and other rank-based historically-themed combat games. I think a major difference between WMH and Kings of War is the lack of combos so to speak. Yes, some units work together better than others and there are obvious synergies you want to go for with your different abilities and magic items, but these will not win you a game. Armies are balanced enough that you've got a 50/50 chance of winning if both players just march forward and attack blindly, but if you are playing a scenario with an actual objective, it does actually feel like your decisions matter. Games usually end up being very close where armies can overcome early losses with smart play and focusing on the objective. It's the kind of game where sure 90% of my army is dead, but at the end of the game, my opponent's army is scattered all over the board and I'm the only one with a regiment by the token that determined the winner. Basically, nothing that happens in Kings of War feels like "this only makes sense in the context of Kings of War'. Obviously the specifics matter, but knowing how to support your flank and rear, to protect missile troops with melee troops, to soften the enemy from a distance before committing to the charge, etc are all skills that should be applicable in any good wargame.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 03:53
|
|
|
Xlorp posted:Surely it's accusative whoops my latin teacher is haunting me now!!
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 04:26
|
|
|
Sigmarines eunt domus
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 09:02
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:Sigmarines eunt domus Sigmarini ite domum
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 09:21
|
|
|
Hiro Protagonist posted:Okay, that's fair. Also, thanks for not saying it like I'm crazy. I'm gonna look at other games in the area; I might play something else, I'll look into some of the things you guys have suggested, though who knows, maybe I'm the perfect storm of poo poo taste that likes Age of Sigmar. Also, as much as it may not seem like it, I am understanding what this thread is saying, I just wanted to try and make my reasoning clear. I think you should look into some of the agnostic rules systems, that you can pick up and drop into any background. That lets you keep using the miniature collection you have. Things like Dragon Rampant. I've got a write up on my blog - http://toomanymetalmen.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/dragon-rampant-skirmish-fantasy-with.html Fantasy gaming is great, but everyone saying Age of Sigmar is a dumpster fire of rear end are correct. It staggers me that a professional games company could launch a product like that, and it's obvious someone who has no idea about games has interfered with it in utero multiple times (ie Tom Kirby).
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 11:53
|
|
|
lilljonas posted:We recently made a home-brew skirmish game at the club. It took maybe two weeks of occasional Facebook posts, and a handful of test games. I'd be interested in reading this. After all your other ventures, are you interested in publishing rules sets now? Could be worth talking to Osprey.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 12:00
|
|
|
Thundercloud posted:I'd be interested in reading this. That's fun to hear! We're kind of happy with the core rules, but the big issue will be if we can make the campaign rules fun. If we can, that would make it worth looking into maybe publish. There are tons of skirmish games out there, but fewer ones with captivating campaign rules. If we can get a good mix of Dragon Pass meets Mordheim with one hour long games, it'd be great. Since the core rules are quite generic, it would be simple to expand with other settings. So I'll be building some dark age terrain and paint up some Vikings first, just in case.  i'll post a thread if we end up getting this off the ground, given everything involved.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 13:52
|
|
|
lilljonas posted:That's fun to hear! I was thinking about doing a sci fi game a little like Frostgrave. Might be an idea to do a goon skirmish game thread.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 14:31
|
|
|
lilljonas posted:So I'll be building some dark age terrain and paint up some Vikings first, just in case. Thundercloud posted:I was thinking about doing a sci fi game a little like Frostgrave. Might be an idea to do a goon skirmish game thread. I'm liking the direction this thread is going and would love to get involved in a goon made game system. With all the amazing models now being put out by various companies warband/skirmish games are great from a modelling and painting perspective too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 14:39
|
|
|
I'd be down for helping out, though my experience is predominantly in historical games.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 14:53
|
|
|
Thundercloud posted:I was thinking about doing a sci fi game a little like Frostgrave. Might be an idea to do a goon skirmish game thread. Yeah, that'd be pretty cool actually. E: And I know there's a rule making thread in trad, but last time I checked it was all RPG focused, so anything else would be drowned in it. Such a thread would be a nice excuse for me to get going on my East Asian Galley Bonanza game as well... lilljonas fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Apr 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 14:53
|
|
|
I've knocked together a design document. I'm not going to go background huge, because, like Frostgrave, I want people to be able to grab any sci fi models they have. I've built in a background reason for keeping the sides small as well as a reason for wandering monsters. Background There is an area of space where many of the physical laws of the universe break down. Ships, asteroids, space stations, moons and entire planets from across the multiverse have been drawn into it through the actions of a sun sized machine at it’s centre. For all who have tried to approach the machine, it has been certain death. This area has been called the Abyss. The act of pulling objects from wherever they belong leaves small tears in the fabric of reality, and probes, followed by small ships, have followed. Some have even been able to return. The varied technologies found in the Abyss are a treasure trove. A mixture of treasure hunters, mercenaries and military special ops teams have been sent in to find items worth bringing back. Of course, the Abyss is now home to dozens of alien races, along with creatures unimaginable to many. Without a sun the planets drawn into the Abyss slowly die, and the inhabitants of those planets fight brutal resource wars to save their people. A simple ration pack is worth killing for. The Abyss is a place of unrelenting conflict, as beings fight over food, water, energy, technology, and the exit pods sent through the tears that are capable of making the return journey. Where I want to go with it: Skirmish game for about a dozen models per side. Wandering monster mechanics and themed monster lists. Rules about 12 pages. Add design rules for both forces, weapons and creatures. Add example lists. Typical board size 2 by 2. Analagous to kill team. Dual action/reaction mechanics. (so take 2 actions per turn per model, characters can use heroic actions which active all models around them as well) Opposed dice rolls? Heavily customisable forces. Lighter vehicles and walkers. Use any models, any terrain. Dense terrain required. No unobstructed line of site longer than 12”.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 15:43
|
|
|
Thundercloud posted:Skirmish game for about a dozen models per side. Seems a lot like Infinity's ARO system, with 1 long order - 2 short orders and the opposed (head to head) dice rolls. It's a really nice system as it means both players are always playing. Are you thinking of a system like Infinity's pool of orders/actions that can be piled on one model or actually just 2 actions per model that can't be reallocated?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 15:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 09:43 |
|
|
I'd actually like to see how Infinity's ARO system would work without the order pool. I like Infinity a lot but I'd like to see people try variations on things it does.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 15:57
|
|