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Digirat posted:The soldiers who spawn in almost exactly as fast as you can kill them on treadnaught are a giant loving middle finger that the fight really does not need to have. My easiest kill on the tank was with the Stinger + quantity over quality passive, and +1 bullets. In fact, that wrecked every boss until I got caught on fire and couldn't roll it off with the scarf.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:30
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I wish you could haul ammo boxes with you. I'm annoyed that loving rat popped in and stole an ammo box that i could not possibly take (as it was the very first room clear on a new run) and taking the loving thing. That really is a lovely mechanic and i hope they let you mod or turn the fucker off. Also a 50% enemy health mode.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:43
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So the devs basically confirmed that the dropsystem works on "coolness" You only gain coolness if you clear rooms without damage, and it increases chances for an item drop. Once you get a drop the coolness goes down again. ALso you get less or no money drops if you get hit in a room.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:44
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FrickenMoron posted:So the devs basically confirmed that the dropsystem works on "coolness" You only gain coolness if you clear rooms without damage, and it increases chances for an item drop. Once you get a drop the coolness goes down again. ALso you get less or no money drops if you get hit in a room. What a great mechanic! Make the game easier for those who already have an easy time and make it harder for those who already have a hard time.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:47
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FrickenMoron posted:So the devs basically confirmed that the dropsystem works on "coolness" You only gain coolness if you clear rooms without damage, and it increases chances for an item drop. Once you get a drop the coolness goes down again. ALso you get less or no money drops if you get hit in a room. This changes everything. ^^^^ It is a great mechanic though. It forces you to learn to dodge so you won't just tank everything.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:48
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Well, that explains why the drop rate seemed to be improving as I got better at the game, it actually was.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:51
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watho posted:This changes everything. Not like you can tank anything in this game with how rare health pickups are in the first place  e: I think it's a bad mechanic and it amplifies an problem that's in these types of games, which is snowballing. Your run either sucks and doesn't get off the ground or you become a death machine with pickups out the ears. e2: If that's how it works, of course Your Computer fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 13:51
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FrickenMoron posted:So the devs basically confirmed that the dropsystem works on "coolness" You only gain coolness if you clear rooms without damage, and it increases chances for an item drop. Once you get a drop the coolness goes down again. ALso you get less or no money drops if you get hit in a room. This isn't exactly right. Coolness rises in a room until you get hit, then it stops for that room, but continues in the next. You will not lose coolness from getting hit, and when it hits a certain threshold, you get an item drop. Also, the money thing is that whatever hits you does not drop money, everything else does.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:53
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Still poo poo mechanics.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:57
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Does that coolness have anything to do with the one that's gained from smoking cigarettes and such because they don't seem to work quite the same way?
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Apr 11, 2016 14:02
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Broken Cog posted:Also, the money thing is that whatever hits you does not drop money, everything else does. Of course excepting enemies that just don't, like the tiny shell bats or anything you turn into a chicken.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:02
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watho posted:Does that coolness have anything to do with the one that's gained from smoking cigarettes and such because they don't seem to work quite the same way? Nighthand posted:Of course excepting enemies that just don't, like the tiny shell bats or anything you turn into a chicken. Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 14:05
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FrickenMoron posted:So the devs basically confirmed that the dropsystem works on "coolness" You only gain coolness if you clear rooms without damage, and it increases chances for an item drop. Once you get a drop the coolness goes down again. ALso you get less or no money drops if you get hit in a room. I knew it! I actually thought this exact same thing then dismissed it as "nah they'd never do anything this dumb".
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Apr 11, 2016 14:06
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Broken Cog posted:This isn't exactly right. Coolness rises in a room until you get hit, then it stops for that room, but continues in the next. You will not lose coolness from getting hit, and when it hits a certain threshold, you get an item drop. That is a weird system and I honestly would've preferred if it were less based around perfect play- because even if it is as forgiving as that, I think Your Computer is right in that such a mechanic only contributes to the game's difficulty ramp problems.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:06
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CJacobs posted:That is a weird system and I honestly would've preferred if it were less based around perfect play- because even if it is as forgiving as that, I think Your Computer is right in that such a mechanic only contributes to the game's difficulty ramp problems. I'm inclined to disagree. I think it helps create a natural progression curve where you gradually get further into the game faster as you get better at the game, not only restricted by health. The system seems pretty lenient if you ask me.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:07
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I dunno, I like the mechanic. It means you can't rely on reasonably guaranteed item drops to let you win, like in Isaac. You HAVE to get good to be able to get sufficient drops to beat the game. It's a more skill-based system. I'm a fan of it even though I'm garbage at the game, 60 deaths with not even a fake win, but I can actually see myself noticeably improving over time, I can pretty much always get to the fourth floor this time, and I'm starting to sloooowly get better at those boss fights. It's fun feeling like you're getting better at the game, and the game is rewarding you for it. I guess I might just be weird? I dunno. I just enjoy a game that rewards me for getting better at it, in literal ways. Edit: I feel that this knowledge makes a lot of things make more sense in retrospect. I notice that I get like a ton more drops on the first floor now than I did back when I first started, and I'm getting to the point where even on the third floor I'm getting plenty of stuff. I also wanna comment that I'm too lazy to ever actually use my infinite ammo weapon past the first floor, and I never feel that ammo restricted provided I switch around my weapons a lot. I tend to just change what weapon I'm using every room, unless I get something that's just tailor-made for clearing rooms like the Raiden Coil or the BSG. And I end up with plenty of ammo for bosses like this. Infinity Gaia fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 14:08
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Truly this is the Dark Souls of roguelite twin stick shooters. The only winning move is to git gud.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:10
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Basing a completely hidden system in your game around "get good or you get less help" is awful design and you will not convince me otherwise. edit: If for nothing else, because if you already are playing well enough to consistently receive the drops, you don't actually need them. Whereas if you're playing poorly, you do need the extra help because of this game's massive difficulty ramp on the later floors, but you're not going to get it because of this crappy system. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 14:11
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Systems that reward you for playing better are super common in a ton of games, Binding of Isaac included. Why would you be rewarded for loving up?
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Apr 11, 2016 14:13
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Yodzilla posted:Systems that reward you for playing better are super common in a ton of games, Binding of Isaac included. Why would you be rewarded for loving up? To an extent, it's acceptable to reward you for playing well. If you manage to beat a boss in this game without getting hit, you deserve the reward because you don't require any outside assistance to do it- you can probably dodge every boss in this game with the starter pistol if you become really, really skilled at it. It is not acceptable to tie something as key to progressing through your video game as the rate at which you get items to that.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:15
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Yodzilla posted:Systems that reward you for playing better are super common in a ton of games, Binding of Isaac included. Why would you be rewarded for loving up? There is only one mechanic that is a reward for playing well in BoI and i would hardly consider the devil room necessary to play/complete the game. What they're saying is almost everything is based on that in Gungeon.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:18
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I dunno man, it feels fine to be. Could do with being less obscured so people know what they're getting into, but now that it's out in the open it seems pretty straightforward what the intention is: They want only players who get good at all aspects of the game to be able to clear it. And heck, I'm okay with that. I dunno why it's the idea these days that everyone should be able to beat or even do well at every game. It's fine to have a game that's sufficiently hard that most people WON'T progress in it unless they put in the time to, as they say, git gud.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:18
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I also want to say that RNG is already extremely punishing in this game by itself. I'm sure some crazy person will come along and finish the game with just the starting gun, but with the way enemy health ramps up it definitely feels like the game expects you to use better guns as you get further. If you don't get any, or you don't get any ammo (or money to buy either), you're kinda hosed. After floor 3, and even in some floor 3 rooms the game just throws so many enemies at you at once that unless you can kill them fast enough you're going to get into a situation you can't dodge your way out of. There are Blanks you could use, but those are also RNG pickups. e: and just so I don't sound too negative, I'm still loving this game to pieces. I've been playing non-stop for hours. Your Computer fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 14:25
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I've ran into this exact room multiple times so I'm assuming it's like an altar room or the fireplace room and I am missing something here;
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Apr 11, 2016 14:30
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I AM BRAWW posted:I've ran into this exact room multiple times so I'm assuming it's like an altar room or the fireplace room and I am missing something here; You can dodge roll from one mine cart to the next 
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Apr 11, 2016 14:30
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Im glad these rooms disappear forever from the level generation after you "solved" them.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:31
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I definitely wouldn't of had the balls to roll into spikes by myself, thank you.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:34
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Anyone that has unlocked the Bullet character that could confirm whether he can show up randomly in the dungeon after you have unlocked him? I'm testing something.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:35
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Broken Cog posted:Anyone that has unlocked the Bullet character that could confirm whether he can show up randomly in the dungeon after you have unlocked him? I'm testing something. I haven't seen the thing in question since unlocking that character. Said character is also broken as hell and I'm tempted to do runs with only its starting weapon until I've beaten the whole game like that.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:38
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Nighthand posted:There's a setting in the options for "aim look" or something like that. crank that down or turn it off. It's what shifts the camera in the direction you're aiming. Reading back through the thread and this is huge, I'm surprised the default's to have it on.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:40
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Einwand posted:I haven't seen the thing in question since unlocking that character. Said character is also broken as hell and I'm tempted to do runs with only its starting weapon until I've beaten the whole game like that. Yeah, I've unlocked him as well, and he's pretty fun. There's just this flavour text on the Gilded Hydra gun that talks about a certain "pacifist", and he is the only one I can think of that fits that description, but I haven't run into him again since I unlocked him.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:42
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the only thing that i have issue with right now is that treadnaught seems so much harder than cannonbalrog, it's not even funny. i have never once beat treadnaught, and i've managed to get to it with some decent equipment like double vision + fightsabre or whatever, but his adds make the fight too unpredictable for me. that, and there's no way to practice against bosses without getting all the way down to them. i would love some kind of boss practice mode (maybe it's an NPC shop you unlock like everything else in the breach) where you can just fight the bosses to figure out what they're about. i've faced each of the level 4 bosses exactly once each, and died fairly early on, and i don't feel like if i fought them again i would really be any better for it because i am getting next to no practice against them.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:53
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FIRE IS SO FUCKIN OP OMG WTF?IT BURNED ME TO DEATH FROM FULL HP
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Apr 11, 2016 15:01
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I AM BRAWW posted:FIRE IS SO FUCKIN OP OMG WTF?IT BURNED ME TO DEATH FROM FULL HP Fire doesn't go away until you roll to put it out
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Apr 11, 2016 15:05
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CJacobs posted:Fire doesn't go away until you roll to put it out oh my god
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Apr 11, 2016 15:06
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I AM BRAWW posted:FIRE IS SO FUCKIN OP OMG WTF?IT BURNED ME TO DEATH FROM FULL HP I AM BRAWW posted:oh my god Stop drop and roll brah (it definitely killed me a couple of runs before I figured that out too)
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Apr 11, 2016 15:10
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So I got to the last boss finally and am not pleased that it the game changes the zoom level during the fight.
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Apr 11, 2016 15:29
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There's probably something to the gilded hydra description but hell if I can figure out what it means, I'll just wait for someone else to figure it out/datamine it like isaac's the lost.
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Apr 11, 2016 15:31
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Look at all these babies complaining about RNG loving, blaah blahh a bloo bloo. Once you stop playing like a chump the game gets better and better. I never got much into NT and absolutely hated Issac but this game has me hooked. I even started playing NT a bit more because of it  Not everything has to be written and set in stone so that you can min/max every play through. Part of this games challenge (and fun) comes from the randomness. I'd hate to see how some of you would react to XCOM, or Mordenheim or something. It's ok not to like it. Not everyone can be cool.
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Apr 11, 2016 15:34
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 23:01 |
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FrickenMoron posted:So the devs basically confirmed that the dropsystem works on "coolness" You only gain coolness if you clear rooms without damage, and it increases chances for an item drop. Once you get a drop the coolness goes down again. ALso you get less or no money drops if you get hit in a room. Wait, what? That item system is awful. A snowball reward system is alright to do with shells/money (and is implemented already through that second point), where skilled players can cash in their skill to compensate for bad RNG through shops. However, player skill should be divorced from basic item drops like keys, ammo, and health and be made a flat drop rate (I don't mean guaranteed drops, just a static percentage chance of item). It makes it much easier to tweak the expected difficulty of the game (like the average number of keys a player is expected to have at a point in time) and gives players a good baseline expectation on what amount of skill is required to beat the game instead of hiding it behind skill based RNG. If coolness is an important stat to have, tie it into shells from enemy drops where more coolness = more money (like a combo system) but is dropped to base if you get hit at all; permanent coolness upgrades can raise the combo base. Floodkiller fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 15:34
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