|
Stanley Pain posted:Look at all these babies complaining about RNG loving, blaah blahh a bloo bloo. Once you stop playing like a chump the game gets better and better. I never got much into NT and absolutely hated Issac but this game has me hooked. I even started playing NT a bit more because of it Randomness is fun but the degree of randomness present in EtG is insanely more massive than other games. Even NT threw a guaranteed one gun at you every level, you don't get any guarantees here. No guns when everything is such a massive HP sponge is even worse - at least in NT things usually died much faster.
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 15:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 21:05 |
|
|
Sloober posted:Randomness is fun but the degree of randomness present in EtG is insanely more massive than other games. Even NT threw a guaranteed one gun at you every level, you don't get any guarantees here. In NT you usually die faster too  This game really does ramp up as time + your skill progress. I've finished it twice and haven't really seen too much RNG fuckery and I'm pretty bad at these types of games. I also enjoy the starter pistol  If you feel like you're being unfairly hosed in the beginning play Hunter or Convict.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 15:55
|
|
|
Stanley Pain posted:In NT you usually die faster too Bar none my favorite first room in this game is the one that spawns like 30 guys in 3 waves.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 15:56
|
|
|
Stanley Pain posted:Look at all these babies complaining about RNG loving, blaah blahh a bloo bloo. Once you stop playing like a chump the game gets better and better. I never got much into NT and absolutely hated Issac but this game has me hooked. I even started playing NT a bit more because of it The best comparison to XCOM for this system that I can think of is having injured troops slow down your research and construction times because they aren't available as hard labor during times where they aren't on mission or some excuse. 100% healthy research and construction times would still be exactly the same length as they are in vanilla, it's just there to say you should be punished because you let someone take a single point of poison damage on an otherwise flawless mission 
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 15:57
|
|
|
I can understand tying health to the system since it gives the game a natural difficulty curve, but keys and ammo should probably be more lenient. I love the game now but I went through the same "for a game that's entirely about guns I sure am having trouble getting any guns/ammo" thing other people are having, and if I quit at that early sour point I wouldn't have unlocked any of the really fun stuff like the sorceress. They should at the very least actually explain this system in-game, basic pickups are more important than isaac's devil door; it shouldn't be a secret. Even worse than that is that they don't explain that guns reload when unequipped, and that's super vital.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 15:59
|
|
|
Man, I really really hate those rooms in the forge where you get tracked by those lovely hammer things.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:05
|
|
|
The coolness thing would be fine if it wasn't for the fact chamber 4 and the forge force you into rooms that practically require you to take damage.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:14
|
|
|
Floodkiller posted:The best comparison to XCOM for this system that I can think of is having injured troops slow down your research and construction times because they aren't available as hard labor during times where they aren't on mission or some excuse. 100% healthy research and construction times would still be exactly the same length as they are in vanilla, it's just there to say you should be punished because you let someone take a single point of poison damage on an otherwise flawless mission You get "penalized" per room, not floor. So it would be like having your research slowed down by a day in XCOM terms. Now if you continually play terribly you shouldn't expect a good outcome from that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:15
|
|
|
The biggest problem I have with the game is that there are a lot of runs where I just get bad guns or guns that are low ammo and meant for bosses so I end up using the starter pistol for 3 floors and it's super boring. It's fun to use weird guns with weird upgrades and more often than not I get neither.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:31
|
|
|
Stanley Pain posted:You get "penalized" per room, not floor. So it would be like having your research slowed down by a day in XCOM terms. Now if you continually play terribly you shouldn't expect a good outcome from that. I don't think people are asking for a reward for playing poorly, but rather raising the baseline of health and consumable drops. After 60 odd runs, I finally made it to the third floor boss after getting a rainbow chest on the second floor that contained the wax wings and a whole slew of cool weapons. I'm really enjoying the feeling of making slow progress at getting better at this game and seeing what's to unlock. What should I concentrate on to get better?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:32
|
|
|
Stanley Pain posted:Look at all these babies complaining about RNG loving, blaah blahh a bloo bloo. Once you stop playing like a chump the game gets better and better. I never got much into NT and absolutely hated Issac but this game has me hooked. I even started playing NT a bit more because of it *dunks on nerds, kickflips out of the thread* it's nice to have a somewhat better understanding of how the mechanics work. I can reliably get to the fourth chamber and now most of the time to the chamber's boss, but not reliably enough to understand the boss' patterns. My best run was with the Marine, had fat bullets, four keys on the fourth chamber... a no guns past the starter. I wondered if the game had decided I had enough of a fighting chance, and to be fair I made it to the wall, but ran out of blanks and was stuck between fire and a seemingly undodgeable wall of bullets. Couldn't be upset when I died, and I generally only get butthurt if I slip up on the first or second chamber bosses and take a hit. all of this is meaningless because in twelve or so hours DS3 unlocks and this game will take a long backburner while i GIT GUD elsewhere
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:34
|
|
|
I was making reliable progress, I could get to floor 5 regularly, then I caught a cold and it's been downhill from there  I'm at 140 deaths and still no win and I'm probably going to be playing until dark souls 3 releases tonight so maybe I'll hit 200.I probably would have rage quitted but every other run I've been finding new things or fun things (I duct taped two shotguns together) that keep me going back despite being horrible.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:35
|
|
|
Phoix posted:The biggest problem I have with the game is that there are a lot of runs where I just get bad guns or guns that are low ammo and meant for bosses so I end up using the starter pistol for 3 floors and it's super boring. It's fun to use weird guns with weird upgrades and more often than not I get neither. Why thanks game i want the unfinished gun, lowercase r, and pea shooter. (As an aside it'd be cool if you could 'finish' the unfinished gun by tossing it in some water or something and have it get better). lowercase r in particular considering the entirety of the B U L L E T is one bullet and does as much damage as one bullet. The fact the pea shooter is even a gun you can get in the gungeon proper is very bad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:37
|
|
|
The lowercase r is pretty good for spraying at annoying enemies like gunjurors and books from a distance while concentrating on evasion, since its bursts are reasonably accurate and it can keep up a sustained barrage until they eat poo poo. The Unfinished Gun is not great but I think it has decent range and clip size, so it might have a use depending on your character. The Pea Shooter is just Bad though. IMO your Coolness stat should go up, like, twice as fast when you kill stuff with it. Even really bad guns are worth carrying around so you have something to sell to the sewer friend, give to a Muncher, or sacrifice at a shrine. The only guns I can't stand using at all are ones with fucky bullet aiming properties like the Tearjerker or Origuni. I can't hit poo poo with those. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Apr 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:57
|
|
|
Sloober posted:Why thanks game i want the unfinished gun, lowercase r, and pea shooter. (As an aside it'd be cool if you could 'finish' the unfinished gun by tossing it in some water or something and have it get better). lowercase r in particular considering the entirety of the B U L L E T is one bullet and does as much damage as one bullet. Pretty sure the game just hates you NotAnArtist posted:*dunks on nerds, kickflips out of the thread* I think the "problem" is that the game is a bit more of a slow burn then people were initially expecting. Personally I wouldn't mind if they upped the drop rate of guns a bit and maybe got rid of keys entirely + increased the probability of mimics.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:59
|
|
|
Sloober posted:Why thanks game i want the unfinished gun, lowercase r, and pea shooter. (As an aside it'd be cool if you could 'finish' the unfinished gun by tossing it in some water or something and have it get better). lowercase r in particular considering the entirety of the B U L L E T is one bullet and does as much damage as one bullet. the "r"'s greatest tragedy is that is doesn't alternate between several onomatopoeia like "bang" or "blammo" or "pew pew pew"
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:59
|
|
|
Coolness should be affected by things like accuracy, flipping tables, dodging damage, and getting trap kills. It would be cool if there was a certain number of coolness goals in each room (or certain rooms at least) that you could go for and you get a room rating or something and a guaranteed drop of some sort if you hit those coolness goals.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:04
|
|
|
This game with a DMC-esque style meter to encourage you to dodge everywhere and change up your weapons frequently and knock physics poo poo over would be the dumbest, most awesome thing you could add to it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
Snazzy Frocks posted:Coolness should be affected by things like accuracy, flipping tables, dodging damage, and getting trap kills. It would be cool if there was a certain number of coolness goals in each room (or certain rooms at least) that you could go for and you get a room rating or something and a guaranteed drop of some sort if you hit those coolness goals. I dunno, there's a lot to focus on already and adding weird bonus objectives would probably further frustrate a lot of players. The Coolness system seems like it could benefit from helping struggling players as well, in some way - maybe the game could keep track of your health and items/guns as the game progresses, and if it detects that you're having lovely luck or are consistently at low health, it could apply increasing multipliers to your Coolness build so that repeatedly pulling your own rear end out of the fire through sheer stubborn badassery results in a minor glut of extra stuff until you either a) die or b) claw your way out of trouble enough that the game says "ok you have a few guns now and are no longer at an average of 1 heart at every room clear, good job lil bullet" and normalizes your Coolness gains. Nothing is cooler than a badly outmatched underdog who considers the odds, gets pissed, plants their feet on the ground, and shoots the odds in the god drat face. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Apr 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:15
|
|
|
Angry Diplomat posted:I dunno, there's a lot to focus on already and adding weird bonus objectives would probably further frustrate a lot of players. The Coolness system seems like it could benefit from helping struggling players as well, in some way - maybe the game could keep track of your health and items/guns as the game progresses, and if it detects that you're having lovely luck or are consistently at low health, it could apply increasing multipliers to your Coolness build so that repeatedly pulling your own rear end out of the fire through sheer stubborn badassery results in a minor glut of extra stuff until you either a) die or claw your way out of trouble enough that the game says "ok you have a few guns now and are no longer at an average of 1 heart at every room clear, good job lil bullet" and normalizes your Coolness gains. I would have less of a problem with the system if this was the case, I think.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:17
|
|
|
Your reward for not getting hit is that you don't get hit so you do not lose. This is how nuclear throne and other, better designed games work. There is no need to add a completely uncommunicated garbage snowball mechanic on top of that. If I'm worse at the game, I'll need better guns to get by but the game will not give me the ammo I need to use them, so the mechanic artificially makes the game more tedious for new players. If I'm better at the game, it will give me more items that I won't actually need as much. My complaints with the game aren't specifically about the fact that it's difficult but the fact that it's tedious. However this mechanic is loving terrible because it ties the difficulty to the tedium.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:31
|
|
|
My favourite part of that mechanic is getting half a dozen ammo boxes in bullet hell because I got a gun, usually the megaman hand or the camera, that lets me clear the rooms with very little risk. Then dieing to the boss because one curse marker managed to get me a jammed version.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
I have 110 deaths and have only been to the fifth floor twice (I haven't beat it either). I'm bad at video games. Also, I encountered a weird bug where I was killing a Blobulon and when the last one split the room completed. I didn't realize it until I killed one of the small blobs but the other one I took on a trip around the map with me.  I also got the map on that floor (you can see it in the screenshot) and there was no secret room. I guess there's a chance that a given floor just won't have one. E: The last couple of Junks I've sold only went for about 4 casings. RIP money making schemes with the sewer monster.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:36
|
|
|
getting a map out of a chest you had been saving until the floor is completed is a hilarious, sad punch in the breadbox, especially when there was half a heart in an undiscovered secret room and I was at full health already
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:48
|
|
|
Stanley Pain posted:Pretty sure the game just hates you It probably does hate me, i don't remember when i got a fun gun in it. I seem to be getting mostly handguns lately, of which there are some good ones, but there is also a whole lot of crap that is really just 'starter pistol but with ammo'. I don't recall what it is (revolver something or other) but it one shots basic pistol bullets on the first floor, i don't mind getting that one. The T-shirt cannon was fun when i found it but does poo poo damage so really you just bust it out in rooms with pits and just knock everyone into them. The Tshirts should be explosive or they should pay someone to draw Tshirts on everything you hit with it. Beholster with a giant Tshirt on would be mildly amusing NotAnArtist posted:the "r"'s greatest tragedy is that is doesn't alternate between several onomatopoeia like "bang" or "blammo" or "pew pew pew" Well it goes BLAM when it hits what you're shooting at. But i agree. So my basic wish for the game is smoothing the drop curve and cutting all health in like 1/2. Stuff is just way too bullet spongey, and a lot of guns don't actually do any more damage than your starter weapon, per bullet.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:55
|
|
|
Angry Diplomat posted:The lowercase r is pretty good for spraying at annoying enemies like gunjurors and books from a distance while concentrating on evasion, since its bursts are reasonably accurate and it can keep up a sustained barrage until they eat poo poo. The Unfinished Gun is not great but I think it has decent range and clip size, so it might have a use depending on your character. The Pea Shooter is just Bad though. IMO your Coolness stat should go up, like, twice as fast when you kill stuff with it. Apparently ammo drops get more common when you're clearing rooms with actual ammo-using guns instead of the starting pistol. I think the only real use for those weak guns is the increased chance to get an ammo crate to feed into your better guns. Mega Hand is also really good for this because it costs barely any ammo to clear rooms but does good damage and still has you finding more ammo crates.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
Digirat posted:Your reward for not getting hit is that you don't get hit so you do not lose. This is how nuclear throne and other, better designed games work. There is no need to add a completely uncommunicated garbage snowball mechanic on top of that. I sitll don't understand how this game is tedious, or any of the things you said make it tedious. Binding of Issac is like 100x more tedious Maybe you meant difficult?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
I've been hosed over by Binding of Isaac way more than this game. As far as I'm aware nothing in this game is a random chance at a downgrade or will completely gently caress you over if you pick it up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:13
|
|
|
Fans posted:I've been hosed over by Binding of Isaac way more than this game. As far as I'm aware nothing in this game is a random chance at a downgrade or will completely gently caress you over if you pick it up. You may want to have another look at that gitch-chest video pictured earlier.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:15
|
|
|
Oxxidation posted:You may want to have another look at that gitch-chest video pictured earlier. If you win the fight you get like 6 guns though so it's not that raw a deal
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:19
|
|
|
goferchan posted:If you win the fight you get like 6 guns though so it's not that raw a deal If I won that fight I wouldn't have any need of those guns because I'd have achieved gaming apotheosis and become one with the pulse and form of the very cosmos.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:22
|
|
|
this game could really do with giving you a key after each boss kill
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:24
|
|
|
Aside from the difficulty and RNG stuff which could easily be tuned, I gotta say I really love the look and feel of the game. The visuals are fantastic, the animations are all really cute, the sound effects are great and the humor is just over the top enough to go from "uggh" to being legit funny. I also love that they took the time to include enemy and item descriptions for everything, I'm a sucker for that stuff. Now if only I could reliably get past the second chamber.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:29
|
|
|
Stanley Pain posted:I sitll don't understand how this game is tedious, or any of the things you said make it tedious. Binding of Issac is like 100x more tedious I did not mean difficult. Game's hard but that's not the problem. The problem is that it features 100+ cool weapons and then incentivizes you to use the most boring one for as long as you can, slowly picking away at health sponges with a slow-firing, inaccurate, low-damage weapon for room after room. Not only does it incentivize you to do this but it often forces you to do this, because you can go for strings of rooms and even entire floors without getting a single ammo. Like I mentioned earlier, 3 of the first 4 times I got to floor 4 resulted in me having no ammo for more than 1 very bad gun. I had good fun slowly pouring magazine after magazine into every single enemy to kill them before getting worn down by attrition. IMO the infinite ammo gun should be a fallback just to make sure you have some way to do damage in case of a freak of randomness or the player somehow missing guaranteed weapons, not something you should to use for entire floors every game. This game features a T-shirt cannon and a beehive as weapons. It's the last kind of game that needed RNG-driven resource starvation as a central feature. It would be very challenging even without any kind of ammo mechanic. I want to feel like "I have all these cool guns and can't wait to shoot these dudes with them," but instead I feel like "I have all these cool guns but I better not use them until absolutely necessary because gently caress if I'm ever getting an ammo refill for them. I must not have too much fun." I think isaac is a garbage game for what it's worth. It doesn't take much to be better than isaac, and gungeon pretty much blows it out of the water in every way. Gungeon has incredible style with the foundation for an equally good game in there, but it has some really tragic problems that get in the way of the game being as fun as it could be.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:31
|
|
|
Yeah keys are way too uncommon for how prone the game is to randomly sticking shops and other stuff behind locked doors. I cannot even imagine ever having a good reason to buy anything from the door merchant guy who takes keys instead of money. e: just make one ammo box and one key be guaranteed boss drops on top of whatever other stuff you randomly get, imho.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:32
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure ammo packs are more likely to drop when you actually use ammo. I know they only seem to start dropping for me after I'm running low on a gun, even if it's just the starting crossbow for the Huntress. Can't confirm that, but it certainly feels that way.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:39
|
|
|
This could just be my luck or the fact that I've usually been playing hunter so the dog gets me an occasional key, but I haven't felt like the game is as bad about keys as it is with other resources. They aren't meaningful if they're plentiful enough to open every single lock, but so far I've been able to open a majority of them, which seems alright. However I have to buy almost every key I find in the shop which is not so good. Either way, much like ammo, keys shouldn't be based on either luck or an invisible snowball mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:40
|
|
|
I pretty much exclusively play as the Hunter (mostly because the dog sprite is so drat cute) and I use the crossbow for the entire first floor due to it 1-2 hitting everything and I think I may have seen an ammo crate once. Of course, that's both using a gun with ammo and not getting hit so I suppose that's just RNG hating me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:42
|
|
|
Worth pointing out that keys cost only a bit less than items in the shop and when buying items you know exactly what you're getting rather than chancing it all on a "Amulet of Mimic Friendship". Ditto for the Key Guy shop. Then again my last shop was trying to sell me the Derringer and it can gently caress right off with that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 21:05 |
|
|
Fans posted:I'm pretty sure ammo packs are more likely to drop when you actually use ammo. I know they only seem to start dropping for me after I'm running low on a gun, even if it's just the starting crossbow for the Huntress. I got one after clearing my very first room on a brand new run, with a character that does not have any weapons that use ammo out of the gate, which was promptly stolen by the loving rat because i had nothing to refill. They're rare enough that i got irrationally angry over it despite it not doing me a lick of good. And because that rat exists you can't do thing like even leave it to quick hop back over and pick up when you actually do run a weapon down, so you're probably likely using it for half capacity instead of a full refill. It's another strike against it that this rare resource is usually only going to be half used because it will just flat disappear as soon as you're out of sight. Sloober fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Apr 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:44
|
|