|
Slightly off topic: Bobbin, you got mentioned on the latest episode of the VGMPire podcast that covered the music of the Deus Ex series with one of the composers, Alexander Brandon. One of the co-hosts took a good length of time to talk about your LP in glowing terms, especially the Corners at the end of each episode. Wasn't sure if someone had told you about this, but it was quite the shock to me! The Casualty posted:This reminds me, watching old movies I can't help but laugh at the bizarre phone codes they always tell the operator when they pick up the handset. Equally depressing that people figured "NO ONE could memorize five whole digits! Let's make two of them mnemonics for a positional thing on the dial you have to look at!"
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 11:35 |
|
|
Bobbin Threadbare posted:Could be referencing Murder by Death. You should do a bonus video. Because it might just be my favorite movie. And while it may not be Noir, it is a fun send up of many different types of detective stories. (also Clue) I'm unfortunately not as up on noir as I should be. The only noir stuff I can definitely say I've seen is The Big Sleep, Chinatown, and Bladerunner.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 06:14
|
|
|
SpookyLizard posted:You should do a bonus video. Because it might just be my favorite movie. And while it may not be Noir, it is a fun send up of many different types of detective stories. (also Clue) I have some suggestions for you. Check out Double Indemnity, and Sunset Boulevard (two of Billy Wilder's best noir screenplays).
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 06:58
|
|
|
SporkOfTruth posted:Equally depressing that people figured "NO ONE could memorize five whole digits! Let's make two of them mnemonics for a positional thing on the dial you have to look at!" To be fair, sometimes the person in need has to make the call themselves. Remembering stuff is hard when you're about to black out from a concussion.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 09:14
|
|
|
Air is lava! posted:To be fair, sometimes the person in need has to make the call themselves. Remembering stuff is hard when you're about to black out from a concussion. I believe Spork is referring to how phone numbers were six digits at this point in history, but that's not the result of a mnemonic device so much as it was the evolution of the four-digit phone number. It used to be that you had to ask an operator to connect you to a specific exchange and then you could dial the four-digit code of a specific number, and because of this the exchanges used names instead of numbers. However, better phone technology led to direct exchange dialing, and so the exchanges were abbreviated to two letters and the letters were added to the phone dial. Eventually, big cities had to use three letters for their exchanges, and once long-distance lines and area codes standardized the phone network the seven digit number became universal. This history is why phone numbers are always formatted as 123-4567.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 09:29
|
|
|
Bobbin Threadbare posted:I believe Spork is referring to how phone numbers were six digits at this point in history, but that's not the result of a mnemonic device so much as it was the evolution of the four-digit phone number. Not exactly universal, in Sweden for example it is (+46) 031-191044 That is country code, area and number. And it is different in other ways in other countries too. Also, you can now call whoever has the phone number that used to belong to my parents flower shop when I was growing up. Have fun with that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 10:33
|
|
|
Bobbin Threadbare posted:I believe Spork is referring to how phone numbers were six digits at this point in history, but that's not the result of a mnemonic device so much as it was the evolution of the four-digit phone number. Ah okay. Never knew about that. Here in Germany, it's totally different. Our numbers start with a 0 (Or a +49 if you want to do it in an international way.) then there are between 2 and 4 digits which specify the city. Those are ordered vaguely geographically. And then there are a few numbers like 3-6 for the person. This is only for landlines. Mobile phones just have some number which depends on the provider. But I guess the topics of this thread naturally tend to be specifically American. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Apr 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 14:30
|
|
|
Fun fact? American area codes (the first three digits of a ten digit number) were designated originally based on the frequency of calls on that area to reduce the wear and tear on various parts of phones. That's why NYCs (original) area code is 212. It's not as relevant now with non rotary phones, but there you go.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 15:36
|
|
|
Englands phone numbers vary in structure but are always 11 digits. It's either (0114)+(1234567) or (01246)+(123456) - those area codes are real ones to illustrate, for Sheffield and Derbyshire.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 15:59
|
|
|
I suppose I should have thrown the word "American" somewhere into that explanation, huh? Oh well.   
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:41
|
|
|
Honestly I love all these conversations about how things that are now our daily life came about. A similar vein is zip codes: they were enacted in the 1960s as cities got bigger so the mailmen would have an easier time understanding what part of the city to take mail to in the days before GPS. In the time of LA Noire, cities are just using two-digit postal zone codes, like you'd say something is in Minneapolis 16. But this wasn't really organized, so they started implementing ZIP codes over the entire United States and some non-American countries like Palau and Micronesia. As with area codes, ZIP codes started lowest in the northeast like New York and Massachusetts and get highest in Alaska, basically going clockwise around the country.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:49
|
|
|
I love how in the first 90 seconds of the episode the player has several major plot points staring them in the face but if you never realize it until you replay the game; most of the things covered aren't touched on again until much later in the game and indeed we do come across more things that come back later in some way or another. I'm not sure if it was just a really clumsy attempt at foreshadowing or if they just didn't know how to write the story to tie it in to Cole doing his job to the bigger picture. We have a few flashbacks and some news paper clippings that show a few other things going on behind the scenes but the narration makes no effort to try and tie things together for you so you have a bunch of random, seemingly inconsequential, stuff going on that you're likely to have forgotten about later on when it actually becomes relevant. You bring up a good point during the first investigation though as to why they didn't bother fingerprinting anything - the techniques to gather such evidence had been around for decades by the time this game takes place and indeed the driver's thumb print is on his driver's license which you recover so it's not like it'd be hard to figure out who was there. Instead we need to rely on some extraordinary leaps of logic while solving some crimes then using actual investigative techniques. edit: Rewatching part of the questioning of Morgan I realized Cole also missed a possible avenue of questioning; as soon as you call him out as Lying about his involvement he immediately demands you prove he was at the railyard when Cole had only told him that the care was found in a 'freight depot'. Psychotic Weasel fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Apr 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:23
|
|
|
It's really funny to me that Cole Phelps doesn't understand that "good cop, bad cop" usually involves two people.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:37
|
|
|
Wow, Drew Carey's surprisingly agile.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:05
|
|
|
Psychotic Weasel posted:
Wanamingo posted:Wow, Drew Carey's surprisingly agile.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:13
|
|
|
I seemed to recall that you can find out that the blood in the car is actually from a pig. Apparently you have to call the coroner after visiting the bar but before apprehending Black. That was the one missed clue.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:34
|
|
|
Wanamingo posted:Wow, Drew Carey's surprisingly agile. Drew Carey can bust some moves when he wants. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSekfCKafMs I know that's a stunt double please don't point it out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 18:43
|
|
|
Kopijeger posted:I seemed to recall that you can find out that the blood in the car is actually from a pig. Apparently you have to call the coroner after visiting the bar but before apprehending Black. That was the one missed clue. Yeah, the coroner lets you know. It ties in with the receipt for the pig to let you confirm that the murder was faked. Psychotic Weasel posted:I love how in the first 90 seconds of the episode the player has several major plot points staring them in the face but if you never realize it until you replay the game; most of the things covered aren't touched on again until much later in the game and indeed we do come across more things that come back later in some way or another. I'm not sure if it was just a really clumsy attempt at foreshadowing or if they just didn't know how to write the story to tie it in to Cole doing his job to the bigger picture. We have a few flashbacks and some news paper clippings that show a few other things going on behind the scenes but the narration makes no effort to try and tie things together for you so you have a bunch of random, seemingly inconsequential, stuff going on that you're likely to have forgotten about later on when it actually becomes relevant. The game is loaded with references to California Fire and Life and the LA freeway project throughout. You just don't really notice until a replay how much it gets foreshadowed. Funny thing, I did some Googling and found that California Fire and Life is an existing mystery novel about an arson investigation uncovering a murder plot. On the subject of fingerprints, the FBI's Identification Division was established in 1924 and they had processed over 100 million fingerprint cards by 1946. However, it's not until the 1990s that a computerized system is made available to allow for rapid comparison of fingerprints. Considering that the cases all take place over a very short time span, allowing for realistic fingerprinting in 1947 would likely result in a good number of cuts to weeks or months later (depending on the priority of the case).
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
Kopijeger posted:I seemed to recall that you can find out that the blood in the car is actually from a pig. Apparently you have to call the coroner after visiting the bar but before apprehending Black. That was the one missed clue. I think you also get a queue to call the corner or the information is passed on to you by the dispatcher if you use an actual LAPD vehicle instead of "borrowing" a civilian car. The official police vehicles all have radios to help give you hints on what you should be doing next. edit: chitoryu12 posted:Yeah, the coroner lets you know. It ties in with the receipt for the pig to let you confirm that the murder was faked. Fortunately LAPD dispatcher lady is part of an omnipotent hive-mind and will just provide you with the info you need if you know what questions to ask. I think some of the things the game glosses over were mainly for the sake of gameplay as doing paperwork isn't very fun but at the same time they start skipping over things that help put all the pieces together and just count on the player and Cole being able to randomly start connecting dots to see what works and what weird rear end picture you can conjure up. They may not have been able to immediately prove that both Adrian and Morgan were at the scene but with all the information we did have, Morgan's connection to the case was circumstantial at best and all they'd be able to prove is that he bought a pig and it ended up in the car. There was nothing else to connect him to the scene until he confessed to it; a confession made under the threat of violence that would immediately have been thrown out by any judge (though maybe not in 1947). But if they found his bloody prints all over the crime scene then they'd know he was there. I guess thinking it over more and more, reality makes for a boring murder mystery novel so in the end the writers probably didn't have much of a choice. But it still results in some clumsy story telling and can lead to confusion when you're expected to make some connection that is in no way hinted at or has any proof to back it up. To a greater degree, it looks like the devs were trying to build a fuller, more detailed world but just... didn't. And you end up with a mishmash of things that don't look like they're related to each other. It doesn't help that that writers decided to go with a in medias res story so things that would probably stand out to Cole (like Courtney Sheldon and Ira Hogeboom being involved in something) mean nothing to the player because they don't know what Cole knows. Psychotic Weasel fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Apr 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 19:05
|
|
|
Psychotic Weasel posted:I think you also get a queue to call the corner or the information is passed on to you by the dispatcher if you use an actual LAPD vehicle instead of "borrowing" a civilian car. The official police vehicles all have radios to help give you hints on what you should be doing next. On the other hand they have a "collect vehicles" thing which seems to encourage stealing lots of civilian stuff, so kind of schizophrenic game design there. Though for taking cars, I seem to recall in one of the Traffic desk cases if you swipe a car from the lot of a used car salesman your partner is seriously in favor of it because of how much he hates the guy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 19:24
|
|
|
My background with a medical family had me peg the nature of the crime and cover up once I saw what was in the trunk and the state of the car. Because of that, I missed out on the wife's full conversation. I figured the first few investigations were going to be easy, and I let it get to me. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 19:34
|
|
|
As I remember, fingerprints come up exactly once in the game, at the end of the homicide desk, and it's only to say "nope, there were no prints on this piece of evidence"
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 19:39
|
|
|
Psychotic Weasel posted:I think you also get a queue to call the corner or the information is passed on to you by the dispatcher if you use an actual LAPD vehicle instead of "borrowing" a civilian car. The official police vehicles all have radios to help give you hints on what you should be doing next. The radios in police vehicles call it in sometimes (an incentive to keep driving your partner's car around instead of just stealing the nearest vehicle every time like in GTA), but you can also look at the mini-map and you'll see a phone or police box icon appear that means "Go find a phone and call back to the station."
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
Faking your death by killing a pig and spreading its blood? Sounds like Adrian is a fan of the classics. There's a thing that strikes me as interesting about this case. Although it is, as Bobbin indicates, a softball- extremely low stakes, no body and POIs who are mostly honest or terrible liars and who all have really obvious tells; heck, I don't even know if it's possible to fail- it still deals with notions of identity and people who want to change it, to be somebody else. People who live a double life, as both honest and shady, or people who decide, for whatever reason, for reward or to escape punishment usually, to shed their lives and start over anew somewhere (to "light out for the territories," as Huck himself would say), are all over this genre. I recall something very like the circumstances behind this case in The Maltese Falcon novel, a former case Spade dealt with about a guy who disappeared from his life and marriage to create another identity and take another wife, and as I recall, he wasn't even particularly unhappy with his former life; he'd just had a near-death experience that made him reassess everything. Introducing this idea early, with a low stakes case, is a remarkably subtle move on the developers part. Also, even with this early case, the storyline can branch- if you actually do get flummoxed by Frank Morgan, World's Worst Liar during his interview*, Bekowski will suggest you tail his car to his apartment, allowing you to finish the case that way. A small branch, but Frank has an amusing "Aw, poo poo" moment when he opens the door. Margaret Black also has some good lines if you continue to accuse her of lying- my favorite is doing so for the bar's matchbook, Phelps will accuse her of being a lush and an adventuress, after which Margaret threatens to sic her lawyer on you. *Which can happen, since there is no clear indication sometimes between having proof and just doubting their statement, and the game can get really nebulous about which incriminating evidence it will accept. resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Apr 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 20:08
|
|
|
I can confirm that the missing clue was a radio dispatch call about the pig's blood which you can only receive by driving a police vehicle away from Cavanagh's. None of the police boxes or phones lit up, so that wasn't an alternative in this case, but I imagine that's because it wasn't a critical clue or anything that would be hard to piece together from the rest of the evidence.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 20:12
|
|
|
$82.50 in 1947 dollars is about $907 today, and that's not completely out of the realm of possibility for a decent residential water heater.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
A later case has a supplementary missable clue that can be missed if you partner-drive between locations. A dispatch call telling you about an extra witness just never happens.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 20:47
|
|
|
SelenicMartian posted:A later case has a supplementary missable clue that can be missed if you partner-drive between locations. A dispatch call telling you about an extra witness just never happens. It may also be possible to be screwed over in a Homicide case if you let your partner drive, as you have to visit one location to find evidence that gives you extra questions for a witness elsewhere. I'm not sure if you can drive back to the bar and talk to the guy after finding that evidence, because you get a call to return to the station on the way and your partner will drive you straight into a cutscene at the station if you let him.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 21:04
|
|
|
Another thing about this case is that we learn that Phelps attended Stanford college. I have no idea what the historical LAPD would be like in this regard, but it is implied that it is unusual. Would the LAPD even accept someone with his background as a common patrolman?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 21:19
|
|
|
Kopijeger posted:Another thing about this case is that we learn that Phelps attended Stanford college. I have no idea what the historical LAPD would be like in this regard, but it is implied that it is unusual. Would the LAPD even accept someone with his background as a common patrolman? I'm pretty sure that Phelps sought them out. Most of Phelp's backstory is that he doesn't feel himself worthy of the Accolades he receives, but everyone around him keeps talking about what a boon he is to the force and his war record. Seems almost like a PR Stunt. "Look at this soldier, returning from the war and protecting our fair city."
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 21:27
|
|
|
Kopijeger posted:Another thing about this case is that we learn that Phelps attended Stanford college. I have no idea what the historical LAPD would be like in this regard, but it is implied that it is unusual. Would the LAPD even accept someone with his background as a common patrolman? I think everyone would have had to start on the ground level and been promoted on merit/rear end kissing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 21:27
|
|
|
Wanamingo posted:Wow, Drew Carey's surprisingly agile. Contrary to the common stereotype, it is actually possible to be in shape while being more heavyset. Actors tend to be trained in physical movement since acting requires the use of gestures and body language as much as speech. Comedians are also known for being trained to perform their pratfalls correctly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 21:40
|
|
|
chitoryu12 posted:I think everyone would have had to start on the ground level and been promoted on merit/rear end kissing. Yeah, but wouldn't he be considered over-qualified for the job and rejected? I got the impression that the other police officers are blue-collar types without higher education. What were real-life recruitment criteria like back in the 1940s? Kopijeger fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Apr 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 21:53
|
|
|
Kopijeger posted:Yeah, but wouldn't he be considered over-qualified for the job and rejected? I got the impression that the other police officers are blue-collar types without higher education. What were real-life recruitment critera like back in the 1940s? I suspect his time in college is part of the reason he was fast-tracked to detective.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 22:08
|
|
|
1946 is just before the big flood of GI bill college educated kids, but it probably wouldn't be that out of place in a year or two.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 22:17
|
|
|
Phelps got sent home early with a wound so he would be ahead of the wave.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 22:18
|
|
|
Yeah the first time I played this game and saw the front of the car I was like "Did he loving explode or something?"
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 23:27
|
|
|
Yeah, if you fail to get the guy to reveal the location but got him enough to know the death was faked you can question on it and he tells you it's pigs blood. He cut the pig's throat, drained the blood into the bucket and threw the blood into the car, hence why there's so much blood and how it splattered.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 23:40
|
|
|
paragon1 posted:Yeah the first time I played this game and saw the front of the car I was like "Did he loving explode or something?" The incredible amount of blood may be the first tip-off that something is amiss. Obviously, no legit murder is going to do that and the final Patrol case solidifies that LA Noire is going to take a more realistic approach to blood and gore. The only crime scene that would look like that is a crime scene where someone not very competent is trying to fake a gruesome murder. Also, something I forgot to mention is the Eagleson's clerk's comment on Kalou's FN pistol. "Europeans love 'em, but it's pretty rare that you find one over here." Someone on IMFDB mentioned that the FN Model 1922 wasn't legally imported to the United States until 1955, but the simple checkered wood grips suggest that it was made in Nazi-occupied Belgium and brought back as a war trophy. chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Apr 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 23:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 11:35 |
|
|
The blood thing reminds me of an episode of Burn Notice where they do basically the same thing, but since the bad guys are smart and no one falls for pigs blood anymore, they drained a bunch of the guys blood to spread around the car. And I think have him a transfusion so he could properly run away and not look like he was missing a few gills of blood. E: btw the guy narrating the stuff earlier is the Keith Szarabajka, a guy whose name I absolutely cannot pronounce, but who holds a place dear to my heart for voicing Joshua Graham in Fallout New Vegas. SpookyLizard fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Apr 12, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2016 00:04
|
|