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ChickenWing posted:That's jarring because it is completely out of character for the excerpt, much less the book. The tone of NotW is pretty established as being reasonably modern, and definitely consistent with a lot of other fantasy I've read. Actually the books keeps jumping from one tone to the next as much. It's less noticeable because the shift is between chapters. Remember the gossamer music? Like this being all from the same conversation: quote:“Today, master, I learned why great lovers have better eyesight than great scholars.” quote:Bast opened his mouth, but Kote continued before he could say anything. “Yes, I made sure the pit was deep enough. Yes, I made sure there was rowan wood in the fire. Yes, I made sure it burned long and hot before they buried it. And yes, I made sure that no one kept a piece of it as a souvenir.” He scowled, his eyebrows drawing together. “I’m not an idiot, you know.” quote:“Begone demon!” Kote said, switching to a thickly accented Temic through half a mouthful of stew. “Tehus antausa eha!” BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Apr 15, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 20:33
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I don't know why you're harping (heh) on the violin thing more than you did a minor chord being described as "saying the word sad." One is at least a bit plausible, the other is flat out lazy and I don't think I'd ever hear a true musician, let alone one that literally only had his music to keep himself warm for months, use that simple of a metaphor for something as meaningful as their music.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:34
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Actually the books keeps jumping from one tone to the next. It's less noticeable sometimes because the shift is between chapters. Remember the gossamer music? I still don't see anything wrong with that 
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Apr 11, 2016 20:41
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I've already explained. Think about what the tone of each excerpt is, and how characters act in each excerpt. Compare them, and you notice that they make no sense. And this isn't because I've edited down the conversation. The conversation moves from playful irony, to dread, to exasperation, to farce, to playful irony. Switching tones can make for great contrast, and it's a pretty basic storytelling device. But it demands you have some kind of effect you're looking for. The first conversation between Bast and Kvothe is three conversations combined. The reader is left confused, and mistakes this for intrigue. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2016 20:49
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I've already explained. Think about what the tone of each excerpt is, and how characters act in each excerpt. Compare them, and you notice that they make no sense. And this isn't because I've edited down the conversation. The conversation moves from playful irony, to dread, to exasperation, to farce, to playful irony. More than one tone can fit into a conversation. People don't naturally speak in perfectly regimented blocks. Dialog flows.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:51
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The first conversation between Bast and Kvothe is three conversations combined. It was a talkativeness of three parts.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:53
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I've already explained. Think about what the tone of each excerpt is, and how characters act in each excerpt. Compare them, and you notice that they make no sense. And this isn't because I've edited down the conversation. The conversation moves from playful irony, to dread, to exasperation, to farce, to playful irony. I know you've already explained, I just find the explanation wanting. It makes perfect sense to me. I don't only talk to my friends in a single tone, it changes depending on the conversation. Plus, the transitions here make sense, at least to me. Humorous initial conversation, thing comes up which is scary, Kvothe says "i did the thing right jesus mom" and then the situation is defused with humour. This is not jarring or even a little strange to me,
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Apr 11, 2016 20:56
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jivjov posted:More than one tone can fit into a conversation. People don't naturally speak in perfectly regimented blocks. Dialog flows. ChickenWing posted:I know you've already explained, I just find the explanation wanting. It makes perfect sense to me. I don't only talk to my friends in a single tone, it changes depending on the conversation. Plus, the transitions here make sense, at least to me. Humorous initial conversation, thing comes up which is scary, Kvothe says "i did the thing right jesus mom" and then the situation is defused with humour. This is not jarring or even a little strange to me, That would demand that there be some effect being sought. The combination of exasperation and farce is completely off-putting. There is no description of stances or expressions shifting - and that's so common elsewhere! The conversation leaves the reader confused, which is mistaken for intriguing. It only works to express that Kvothe is manic, which he actually isn't. Later chapters establish that he's much subtler. If this is supposed to indicate that Bast is someone he can be open to, that also doesn't make sense, since Bast thinks that he's basically dead inside. There is no hint that joking around is a way to distract from the thoughts of demon crabs, you have to assume it, because it's not in the text. The book doesn't show that Kvothe's sudden merriment is just a mask or exhausting. All these conflicting elements together end up leaving no impression. Just consider how Rothfuss describes him alone, immediately after this conversation: quote:Kote ate slowly, mopping up the last of the stew with a piece of bread. He looked out the window as he ate, or tried to, as the lamplight turned its surface mirrorlike against the dark behind it. Notice how he describes no transition from his merriment to his being alone. He's nervous, but this builds on nothing that has come before. Even the conversation that just occurred. There's no sense of tonal or emotional continuity. ‘Yes, alas! through him the Enemy has learned that the One has been found again. He knows where Isildur fell. He knows where Gollum found his ring. He knows that it is a Great Ring, for it gave long life. He knows that it is not one of the Three, for they have never been lost, and they endure no evil. He knows that it is not one of the Seven, or the Nine, for they are accounted for. He knows that it is the One. And he has at last heard, I think, of hobbits and the Shire. ‘The Shire – he may be seeking for it now, if he has not already found out where it lies. Indeed, Frodo, I fear that he may even think that the long-unnoticed name of Baggins has become important.’ 'Begone demon!' Frodo said, switching to a thickly accented Elvish through half a mouthful of stew. “Tehus antausa eha!” Gandalf burst into startled laughter and made an obscene gesture with one hand. e: Also, something I just now noticed: quote:They sat for a long moment. Kote scowling down into the bowl of stew in his hands, his eyes far away. “It must be awful for you here, Bast,” he said at last. “You must be numb with boredom.” Can anyone check if this just my edition? This is the second time I've noticed this. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 21:08
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:That would demand that there be some effect being sought. There is. We're establishing Kvothe's competency. He knows how to dispose of demons. To me, that sounds like a big deal. Also, this BravestOfTheLamps posted:you have to assume it, because it's not in the text. Is pretty rich from the guy accusing Rothfuss of not stimulating the imagination.
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Apr 11, 2016 21:19
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ChickenWing posted:There is. We're establishing Kvothe's competency. He knows how to dispose of demons. To me, that sounds like a big deal. That is exposition. Most of the conversation isn't about it. ChickenWing posted:Is pretty rich from the guy accusing Rothfuss of not stimulating the imagination. There is a difference between stimulating the imagination and having to invent character motivations that run contrary to the text. e. There's some incredibly obvious connections that Rothfuss doesn't even bring up, because he doesn't seem to be aware of them. Why didn't Kvothe ever notice how the caravan that took him to Imre resembled his childhood troupe? It's a new level of subtlety, simply not including characterization. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 21:20
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Can anyone check if this just my edition? This is the second time I've noticed this. Dude likes shrugging. Nothing wrong with that. *SoliceKirsk shrugged
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Apr 11, 2016 21:23
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jivjov posted:I do need to read some Sanderson. Recommendations on a starting point? Warbreaker. You can even download it from his website for free as a pdf. Elantris got an updated version (which is what I waited for before reading it) and it's not bad but other books of his are better. Mistborn's decent but it's an older work of his and shows, while the Wax and Wayne stuff that takes place after it are solid with Shadows of Self and Bands of Mourning both having pretty  endings. Stormlight Archives is good but it's also his major arc with something like a dozen planned books so it probably won't be done until the early 2030s and that's only because Sanderson is a printing press wrapped in human skin. I haven't read his non-Cosmere stuff yet.
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Apr 11, 2016 21:38
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ChickenWing posted:That's jarring because it is completely out of character for the excerpt, much less the book. The tone of NotW is pretty established as being reasonably modern, and definitely consistent with a lot of other fantasy I've read. There's a threshold at which point things become ridiculous, sure, but I don't believe it's been surpassed here, and certainly not to the absurd extent you seem to think. To add to this, an interesting thing about anachronisms, language, idioms and the like is that we have a conception of what language in the past sounded like based mostly on fiction and Hollywood, not reality, so often things we think are anachronisms aren't. This article touches on some recent examples. I also know Mary Robinette Kowal was talking about how as she was doing historical research for her books, she kept finding language that sounded very modern and out of place, and that she knew she couldn't put in the book because it would sound wrong, even if it was actually accurate (on a Writing Excuses podcast, though I can't seem to find which one). This is also true for concepts that have existed for much longer than people guess.
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Apr 12, 2016 02:06
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Uranium Phoenix posted:To add to this, an interesting thing about anachronisms, language, idioms and the like is that we have a conception of what language in the past sounded like based mostly on fiction and Hollywood, not reality, so often things we think are anachronisms aren't. This article touches on some recent examples. I also know Mary Robinette Kowal was talking about how as she was doing historical research for her books, she kept finding language that sounded very modern and out of place, and that she knew she couldn't put in the book because it would sound wrong, even if it was actually accurate (on a Writing Excuses podcast, though I can't seem to find which one). This is also true for concepts that have existed for much longer than people guess. The most important thing is consistency. Those anachronisms are inconsistent within Kingkiller itself. e: We haven't even gotten to the fact that it's not funny. It's a lazy world's smallest violin gag. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 08:29
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The most important thing is consistency. Those anachronisms are inconsistent within Kingkiller itself. I found he violin joke to be funny. Not rolling around on the floor holding my sides funny...but a small amusement.
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Apr 12, 2016 11:00
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The most important thing is consistency. Those anachronisms are inconsistent within Kingkiller itself. It's not even a "smallest violin" anachronism though. He just mimes playing a violin. I can believe that an "I'm playing a sad song for you" sarcastic hand gesture exists in this fantasy world. edit: this is a smallest violin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jrKXf2G-AA Solice Kirsk fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 13:53
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Solice Kirsk posted:It's not even a "smallest violin" anachronism though. He just mimes playing a violin. I can believe that an "I'm playing a sad song for you" sarcastic hand gesture exists in this fantasy world. It's something that's indicative of a deeper underlying problem. First let's definitely answer why sarcastic violin-playing is a dumb gag in an epic fantasy 1. Violins are a common object in Kvothe's world, unlike other Renaissance developments such as gunpowder or cannons* (at least one violinist appears later). 2. They're commonly used for sorrowful incidental music, and are thus associated with melodrama . 3. This is common enough that miming playing a violin is a recognized as a sarcastic gesture for somebody being over-dramatic, even in a pre-modern oral culture where ironic blending of multimedia experience with social discourse should be foreign And the story still involves demon gods who want to destroy the world. There's no contrast presented, because these are essentially two stories combined without thought. There's no hint of any kind of intent or purpose behind these conflicting tones, they're simply presented as a given. Why doesn't Kvothe comment on how frivolous this all seems when he was living on the streets a week ago? In other words, it's more evidence that Rothfuss hasn't written a intelligible setting that's used to tell a story, but a grab-bag of motifs that don't make much sense together. It's the same thing as the Inquisition operating a few days away from wizard school. This is the general impression of Kingkiller: it's various elements just don't add up together. There is no emotional or thematic continuity to its narrative. Why is Kvothe's narration so occupied with every trivial and dull detail in the first place? You can also see this in how fans explain how the books are good and enjoyable: they'll mention that the magic system is cool and they liked that part, but nowhere do they describe the act of reading Kingkiller. They enjoy things in the books, but they don't enjoy the books as any kind of reading experience. I liked the first conversation between Kvothe and Ben, but that hardly makes makes the books good. e: And this isn't a dig at fans, I can't find a critic who can describe the experience of reading Kingkiller either. I haven't found a positive review that goes beyond banalities like "tropes" and "world-building". *Speaking of Renaissance inventions, when will clocks be mentioned again? I haven't noticed them since Chapter 26. Aren't there "sympathy clocks" about? BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 15:25
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You're still basing everything in a reality that this fantasy book doesn't exist in. Seems like a silly thing to get hung up on.BravestOfTheLamps posted:This it the general impression of Kingkiller: it's element just don't add up together. There is no emotional or thematic continuity to its narrative. Why is Kvothe's narration so occupied with every trivial and dull detail in the first place? I think this is a good critique of the book in general and its something I noticed but didn't know quite how to put to words.
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Apr 12, 2016 15:43
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:*Speaking of Renaissance inventions, when will clocks be mentioned again? I haven't noticed them since Chapter 26. Aren't there "sympathy clocks" about? Off the top of my head, Stapes has a pocket watch and Kvothe has a pendulum clock in his rooms in Severen. Plus there's the bell that chimes the hours pretty much everywhere. jivjov fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 16:35
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:In other words, it's more evidence that Rothfuss hasn't written a intelligible setting that's used to tell a story, but a grab-bag of motifs that don't make much sense together. It's the same thing as the Inquisition operating a few days away from wizard school. I actually agree with this, and feel like Solice in that I haven't been able to put my finger on it. I still enjoy the book, but the more I think about it, the more it just kinda seems like an amalgam of semi-interesting ideas that I like individually. It's more or less the reason that the second falls apart. That said, someone pantomiming something to represent a sarcastic sadness doesn't really feel out of place to me, and doesn't seem inconsistent at all. BravestOfTheLamps posted:*Speaking of Renaissance inventions, when will clocks be mentioned again? I haven't noticed them since Chapter 26. Aren't there "sympathy clocks" about? You pick some weird things to pick on. Why would they need to be mentioned again? It just basically establishes that there's a way to know a precise time so that it doesn't seem weird to have someone say "Meet me at this time" and such without having to give it in phases of the sun.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:55
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For me it's just too horribly transparent that he's trying to pull off some kind of Pixar humor BS that it pulls me right out of the book; it being an anachronism doesn't bother me in and of itself, but it does highlight the hamfisted and lazy way the author tries to get me to feel humor out of the scene. This is a huge problem I have with the book in general, almost every page I can feel Rothfuss blatantly trying to pull my strings and after a while I start seeing it as less of a story and more of a machine designed to rather unsubtly push emotional/visceral buttons. It makes me feel like a literary version of a serial killer who sees people not as human beings but as bags of blood that happen to move around and make loud noises when poked too hard. In this sense I understand why lamps is vivisecting the book piece by agonizing piece not comprehending why there are people crying out in horror who in turn have no idea how he can so methodically torture an innocent, albeit flawed thing.
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Apr 15, 2016 02:26
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Did we talk about who's producing/writing the TV series? http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0492994/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1 http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5170222/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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Apr 15, 2016 12:10
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Thoren posted:Did we talk about who's producing/writing the TV series? Looking forward to it 
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Apr 15, 2016 12:11
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Thoren posted:Did we talk about who's producing/writing the TV series? For real? That is like something you'd expect from a 90s USA Network show.
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Apr 15, 2016 12:40
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LET’S READ THE KINGKILLER CHRONICLE CRITICALLY Part 18: “Some of my bunkmates offered awed congratulations while Basil made a special point of coming forward to shake my hand.” So let’s talk about conflict with Chapter 39, “Enough Rope”. Kvothe has arrived early for Hemme’s lecture to speak with him, but it turns out that Hemme simply wants to use Kvothe’s professed mastery of magic as a way to humiliate him. Hemme demands that Kvothe lead the class since he’s so knowledgeable. Kvothe does so, relying on his performer’s skill to remain confident and in control, and lectures on the principles of magic by using a wooden replica of Hemme to show how to transfer heat. He humiliaties Hemme by almost burning him, and the students applaud him as he exits after the performance. quote:“I have pleasant news for everyone,” he said. “Mr. Kvothe here has assured me as to his complete grasp of the principles of sympathy. In doing so, he has offered to give today’s lecture.” He made an expansive gesture for me to join him on the stage. He smiled at me with hard eyes. “Mr. Kvothe?” The first problem with this conflict is that it’s mechanical and thus uninteresting. Kvothe simply applies the right talents to a situation. quote:I held the crude doll up for the class to inspect. “This,” I said, “is Master Hemme.” Laughter muttered back and forth across the hall. “Actually, this is my sympathetic representation of Master Hemme. Would anyone like to take a guess as to why it is not a very good one?” A lot of the conflicts seem to involve simply Kvothe using some talent or trick to trivialize a situation. Kvothe sneaks in and observes the examinations so that he can cheat his way through. Kvothe drank a drug so that he feels no pain for being whipped. Kvothe uses stage technique to perform a lecture. Kvothe plays so well that the whole inn weeps. Kvothe knows the name of the wind, so Ambrose gets injured. Kvothe read the University’s code of conduct so he can charge Ambrose. If he can’t do something, he is simply delayed and sometimes injured. Rothfuss’s utterly dull magic “system” illustrates this well. It doesn’t generate interesting conflict since it’s simply an application of technobabble. There is no interesting conflict when characters speak of their superpowers in percentile. There is no greater push-and-pull and risk that struggle involves. I’d call it RPG logic, but that would be insulting RPGs. Even the “climactic” fight with the dragon involves this. Even the fabled “name of the wind” is just a skill to be learned. There are no ideas driving the conflicts, even the notion of ingenuity and inventionn triumphing against the odds, it's all just brute application of talent. But as made clear, Rothfuss unfortunately does not use his imagination to that purpose. quote:Sure that he had taken me for a fool, I gestured to the candle and asked him, “With your permission, Master?” He made a magnanimous wave of compliance and settled back into his chair, folding his arms in front of him, confident in his safety. The second problem is that this conflict is utterly shallow, despite the breadth of thematic possibilities involved. Since Hemme is a shallow caricature meant only to antagonize Kvothe, like Ambrose, there is nothing insightful against their conflict. There is no realism or interesting theme. Kvothe stands up against a bully, but even for that it’s shallow. There’s not even the undertone of youth revolt, no insight into the relationship between student and teacher, or the conflict of man against institutions. It’s not even hip Kvothe showing up square Hemme. It’s simply a question of how Kvothe is entitled for more. We keep coming back to the theme of entitlement, because that’s all there is to these conflicts. Kvothe’s enemies are simply monsters or idiots. The only interesting conflict he ever engages in is fighting against his amiable moneylender in the next book, because that involves some notion beyond demonstrating Kvothe’s exceptionality. quote:I would never have gotten away with it if not for two of Hemme’s numerous flaws. First, his general stupidity in not believing what I had told him the day before. Second, his desire to see me embarrassed as thoroughly as possible. quote:At this point I used one of the tricks of the stage. There is a certain inflection of voice and body language that signals a crowd to applaud. I cannot explain how exactly it is done, but it had its intended effect. I nodded my head to them and turned to face Hemme amidst applause which, though far from deafening, was probably more than any he had ever received. quote:After Hemme dismissed his class, news of what I had done spread through the University like wildfire. I guessed from the student’s reactions that Master Hemme was not particularly well loved. As I sat on a stone bench outside the Mews, passing students smiled in my direction. Others waved or gave laughing thumbs-up. With that we’re in Chapter 40, ”On the Horns”. Kvothe Is being congratulated for his huge balls (a far cry from spinning gossamer from a lute), but he is under the threat of expulsion for using magic on Hemme, and is summoned before the masters of the University. Of course, since Hemme is an idiotic caricature, it’s simply a matter of Kvothe pointing out that he was given permission for everything he did. He still faces public disciplining: three lashes for reckless use of magic. To the outrage of Hemme, Kvothe requests recognition as a magician, since he has displayed his abilities in magic. This is approved, This chapter has something of authentic value in it: the bureaucratic formulas of the meeting are an entertaining touch, and they make the discussion of Kvothe's punishment both comic and uncomfortable. This is undercut by Kvothe’s self-aggrandizing, which has no hint or irony or satire to it. quote:The Chancellor steepled his fingers and spoke without preamble. “On the fourth of Caitelyn, Hemme called the masters together.” Jamison’s pen scratched across a piece of paper, occasionally dipping back into the inkwell at the top of the desk. The Chancellor continued formally, “Are all the masters present?” quote:I took another deep breath, closed my eyes and concentrated. After a long moment, I felt the cool impassivity of the Heart of Stone surround me. My trembling stopped. quote:I turned to Hemme. “I really didn’t mean any harm, sir,” I said in my best distraught voice. “It was just supposed to be a bit of a hotfoot to make you jump. The fire hadn’t been going more than five minutes, and I didn’t imagine that a fresh fire at ten percent could hurt you.” I even wrung my hands a little, every bit the distraught student. It was a good performance. My father would have been proud. There is no catharsis here, since the conflict is fundamentally mechanical. Kvothe says the right things, using his actor’s talents, and he wins over the masters. It’s an exercise in back-patting. One can even identify the “cool teachers”: they treat Kvothe kindly and dismiss Hemme. They exist to underline Kvothe’s exceptionality. quote:As I was deep into the Heart of Stone, all I felt was a slight analytical curiosity about what it would be like to be publicly whipped. All the masters showed signs of preparing to stand and leave, but before things could be called to a close I spoke up, “Chancellor?” Besides the ridiculousness of the bureaucratic formula, the Chancellor’s exasperation is the only other authentic element in this chapter. It’s a poor fit for this story, as Kvothe never becomes the subversive figure it predicts. Kvothe returns as a hero, and there’s another round of applause and lauds. It’s honestly getting rather embarrassing. He also has to move in with other magicians, and his new bunkmates resent him for entering their order so easily. Kvothe is finally “in some ways exactly where I had always wanted to be”. There is no remarks on how he defies tradition, the establishment, or anything this might imply: he is merely where he is entitled to be. In Chapter 41, “Friend’s Blood,” Kvothe is preparing to be whipped in public, and... what’s with this opening sentence? quote:The next morning I woke early, washed up, and grabbed a bite to eat at the Mess. It’s amazing how boring the language gets. I almost miss the silence in three parts, at least the language was imaginative in its badness. Again, Rothfuss insists that Kvothe narrate these dull details. It still stuns me how one can avoid writing anything fantastical about a world of wizards and demons. Anxious, Kvothe is met by his friend Wilem. Wilem has some difficulties with language, which leads to some “world-building”. quote:“That makes me remember something strange in your language. People are always asking me about the road to Tinuë. Endlessly they say, ‘how is the road to Tinuë?’ What does it mean?” More importantly, since Kvothe is young, he has Wilem go buy a special herb for him from an apothecary. He claims that it’s for his stomach, but it will actually numb the pain of being lashed. Kvothe regrets lying to Wilem, but he also set someone’s face on fire, so it hardly seems sincere. Eventually it’s time for his lashing, which takes place in front of a crowd of hundreds. quote:I spotted none of the masters in the crowd except for Hemme. He stood near the pennant pole, looking piglike in his smugness. My question is no longer rhetorical: how can one manage to write a shallow version of Severus Snape in a 700-page subversive post-modern fantasy epic? And one last note, Rothfuss is at least being consistent with the motif of performance, even if It is just illustrate Kvothe’s exceptionality. quote:I gave him a flat look. “You don’t need to worry about my running off.” Can you spot all the “looks”? ROTHFUSSIAN ATTRIBUTES quote:I had forgotten how Elodin’s light voice moved through the deep places in your chest when he spoke. He smiled happily at me again. CLUMSY ATTEMPTS TO MAKE SENSE OF KVOTHE’S CHARACTER ARC quote:To me, less than a span away from the streets of Tarbean, it was a marvelous meal indeed. quote:Then someone touched me on the shoulder. I jumped fully two feet into the air and narrowly avoided falling on Simmon in the howling, scratching, biting blur that had been my only method of defense in Tarbean. Tarbean Tarbean Tarbean Before you say that this is acknowledging Tarbean, you have to remember that Kvothe's character still changed inexplicably. His life on the streets has become a sort of character quirk, not something that shapes the story. It has the exact narrative weight as his red hair. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2016 00:50
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:LET’S READ THE KINGKILLER CHRONICLE CRITICALLY I wish you would live stream your reading sessions for these posts. I want to see what your face looks like when you scrunch it up to endure the excruciating pain of reading a wildly popular and pretty well written book series.
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Apr 18, 2016 15:41
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Cast Iron Brick posted:I wish you would live stream your reading sessions for these posts. I want to see what your face looks like when you scrunch it up to endure the excruciating pain of reading a wildly popular and pretty well written book series. Any time you try to defend something using logic that could be applied to Twilight (popular = good), you should probably take a step back and reconsider.
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Apr 18, 2016 15:48
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Cast Iron Brick posted:I wish you would live stream your reading sessions for these posts. I want to see what your face looks like when you scrunch it up to endure the excruciating pain of reading a wildly popular and pretty well written book series. Please point to the well-written parts
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Apr 18, 2016 15:51
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I mean, I know that it's apparently a near-impossible task, but please point out how the book is well-written.
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Apr 18, 2016 15:59
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You know BOTL, you've inspired me. Once I finish the book I'm currently reading, I think I'll try doing a counter-analysis alongside you where I give my dirty plebian opinion on the book in the same sort of chunks as you do. We'll see if reading your critical analysis doesn't infect my otherwise excellent opinion of this book on another read.
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Apr 18, 2016 15:59
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plus then maybe I can get you to stop posting "please quote exactly the parts that are good" at all the people who are not currently reading the book and do not have perfect memories for the exact text of things they've read 
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Apr 18, 2016 16:00
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ChickenWing posted:plus then maybe I can get you to stop posting "please quote exactly the parts that are good" at all the people who are not currently reading the book and do not have perfect memories for the exact text of things they've read I have posted extensive quotations. You can do as little as just point out which ones are well-written. Or you can do the wild thing and describe the act of reading Kingkiller. Also, in the next entry I'm looking at probably the most well-written chapter in the book, if not the series. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Apr 18, 2016 |
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Apr 18, 2016 16:02
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I have posted extensive quotations. You don't post quotations of things you think are good though, which is my point BravestOfTheLamps posted:
that's the idea, yes
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Apr 18, 2016 16:16
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I have posted extensive quotations. You're posting quotations because you're actively reading the book right now, and have them handy. Anybody besides jivjov probably isn't reading it right now, and can't recall from memory exact quotations to refute you. Also, what is the next chapter? I can't remember the exact order of events, and I'd like to know which section you're getting to here that you think might pass muster in your system. Kvothe getting his pipes? Elodin's class where Kvothe experiences difficulty with something for the first time?
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Apr 18, 2016 16:21
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ChickenWing posted:You don't post quotations of things you think are good though, which is my point In the last entry I pointed out a well-written element in an otherwise standard chapter. I've also quoted the best part so far, which is the first conversation between Kvothe and Abenthy the wizard. quote:I brought my hand out of my pocket. “Can you sell me anything for a penny?” This is one of the few instances of wit and cleverness in a book that exalts wit and cleverness. e: SpacePig posted:Also, what is the next chapter? I can't remember the exact order of events, and I'd like to know which section you're getting to here that you think might pass muster in your system. Kvothe getting his pipes? Elodin's class where Kvothe experiences difficulty with something for the first time? Kvothe getting patched up after being whipped. It's the only time the novel convinces the reader that Kvothe is deprived and underprivileged, but intelligent and driven. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Apr 18, 2016 |
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Apr 18, 2016 16:23
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It's the only time the novel convinces FTFY
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Apr 18, 2016 17:51
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jivjov posted:FTFY Readers aren't convinced that Kvothe is underprivileged but formidably intelligent because that's not what the boos shows 90% of the time. The book mostly presents Kvothe as a roguish, self-aggrandizing brat, and thus convinces the reader of that. He lacks money, but is an extremely well-educated and of many talents, so he's not deprived. He's skilled and quick-thinking, but that's not the same thing as intelligence and determination. The next chapter has an exchange that convinces the reader that Kvothe is indeed formidable. The rest of the book undercuts that, obviously. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Apr 18, 2016 |
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Apr 18, 2016 18:15
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
Once again, you made an error. Took care of you.
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Apr 18, 2016 18:23
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jivjov posted:Once again, you made an error. Took care of you. Your error is that you're offended by people claiming to tell the truth, and thus cannot consider if they're actually telling the truth. Anyone who reads the books and pays attention will notice that Kvothe is a self-aggrandizing, omnicompetent rogue. That is what the story is about. This is the truth. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Apr 18, 2016 |
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Apr 18, 2016 18:28
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Your error is that you're offended by people claiming to tell the truth, and thus cannot consider if they're actually telling the truth. No, I am offended by people who decide that their own personal experience is representative of everyone else's. I am offended by people that take their interpretations and put them forth as objective truth. I would respect you a whole lot more if you stopped doing that poo poo. jivjov fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Apr 18, 2016 |
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Apr 18, 2016 18:32
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