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Put it like this: taking away a creature's action is one of the worst things you can do to them in this game, and dominate takes away a creature's actions and gives you an attack. Monster basic attacks are usually fairly decent and come with neat hit effects, as well. Or you make the monster run past all your melee fighters towards the defender. Or jump off a cliff. Make the Soldier get out of the way. Make the annoying artillery move to the front row. Dominate has endless possibilities even in one turn. And it's not (save ends) so any Elite or Solo saving throw bonuses are worthless against it... I'd take that as a regular Daily, nevermind an additional one in place of a Utility, and especially nevermind at level 2 which is when you get Moment of Escape.
My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 17:15
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My Lovely Horse posted:Put it like this: taking away a creature's action is one of the worst things you can do to them in this game, and dominate takes away a creature's actions and gives you an attack. Monster basic attacks are usually fairly decent and come with neat hit effects, as well. Or you make the monster run past all your melee fighters towards the defender. Or jump off a cliff. Make the Soldier get out of the way. Make the annoying artillery move to the front row. Dominate has endless possibilities even in one turn. And it's not (save ends) so any Elite or Solo saving throw bonuses are worthless against it... I'd take that as a regular Daily, nevermind an additional one in place of a Utility, and especially nevermind at level 2 which is when you get Moment of Escape. Makes sense. The other thing about it is that it's only range 3, so I'd have to walk up to the artillery, but otherwise that seems like what I thought.
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Mar 31, 2016 17:37
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Jolyne Cujoh posted:Even though, yeah, Bards are the best classes in 5e and 13A, they are also very different than the 4e bard in how they function. In 5e and 3A, they can just be built to be better at basically every role than anyone else, but in 4e they are playing super weird chess that no one else really gets to play. Warlords are better at giving people attacks, runepriests are better at flat number bonuses, Clerics are better at healing, etc., but no one just fucks with positioning on a battlefield like a bard does, shooting an arrow at a dude and then having another one of their friends teleport over from 50 feet away to smack them or pushing a guy into a super lovely position with music or whatever, and none of these other systems have anything even slightly resembling that chessmaster feeling. If you think anyone other than Bards does the best +numbers in 4e you clearly haven't played with a War Chanter.
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Mar 31, 2016 23:44
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Be a half-elf Feyliege valorous bard warchanter with the eternal seeker and/or warmaster epic destiny and you will be an endless fountain of actions, attacks and bonuses. Get Valorous Charge and spam it two to three rounds in a row. Enable everyone on your standard when it's your turn, and then enable on your immediate when it's not, then enable on your minor when you've expended your Valorous Charge. Bury all your enemies in attacks with huge bonuses.
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Apr 1, 2016 00:04
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I really wish this game had gotten a videogame(which actually used the ruleset, gently caress off, dont loving remind me of that game I will literally scream/post "AHHHHHHHHHHH" until I'm banned)
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Apr 1, 2016 17:44
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What happens if you daze an enemy as an immediate reaction during their turn? Do they just kinda lose all their remaining actions and stop doing things for their turn?
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Apr 1, 2016 18:01
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Pretty sure that's what happens, yeah. Enemy does a thing, you react, enemy is now dazed, enemy has already taken the one action dazed allows them on their turn, so that's it. A similar situation comes up when you interrupt someone's movement to slow or immobilize them.
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Apr 1, 2016 18:09
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What's a good controller that can afford going into the front lines? Creating a party around Agile Opportunist, since the DM's using the old version that grants an OA when subject to force movement, and so I figured the other characters would be a Bard, a Rogue, and the defenderlock posted earlier, as they all have decent MBAs, and if I'm reading the rules correctly, Rogue/Ranger/Warlock can all proc their bonus damage once per out-of-turn action. If you're wondering why I keep making new characters, it's because the current metagame my DM has is equivalent to a bunch of oneshot dungeon crawls. My initial idea was a tank Invoker that has some slides on allies in its kit.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:50
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If you want good OAs, you want a Druid.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:07
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Invoker or druid is your best bet. Druids can do close range fairly well and can push or slide people at-will (and prone them if they MC into Fighter, pick up Polearm Momentum and use an Alfsair spear as an implement) and can slide people with their MBAs, but they don't have much in the way of ally sliding abilities.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:12
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Yukari posted:What's a good controller that can afford going into the front lines? Creating a party around Agile Opportunist, since the DM's using the old version that grants an OA when subject to force movement, and so I figured the other characters would be a Bard, a Rogue, and the defenderlock posted earlier, as they all have decent MBAs, and if I'm reading the rules correctly, Rogue/Ranger/Warlock can all proc their bonus damage once per out-of-turn action. If you're wondering why I keep making new characters, it's because the current metagame my DM has is equivalent to a bunch of oneshot dungeon crawls. My initial idea was a tank Invoker that has some slides on allies in its kit. Good front line controller? Fighter, Knight, Berserker. Think outside the box.
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Apr 5, 2016 18:12
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Don't forget the monk.
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Apr 5, 2016 20:16
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Fighters are unquestionably the best melee Controllers in the game, not even kidding. There's also quite a few ways to build the Fighter, and you pretty much can't have too many of them in a party once you have a Leader.
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Apr 5, 2016 20:57
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Gloom Pact Hexblade and swap Eltritch Bolt for Eldritch Strike, multiclass Assassin for Ki Focus proficiency, take Superior Implement Training in Transcendant Ki Focus. Your melee attacks are all now Reach 2 (Reach 3? Normal Reach like with a greatspear plus 1, I forget how 4e does Reach math), you get access to all the good stuff from the Warlock daily and Utility list, and a fairly decent suite of controllery powers built in.
-Fish- fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Apr 6, 2016 |
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Apr 6, 2016 00:44
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-Fish- posted:Gloom Pact Hexblade and swap Eltritch Bolt for Eldritch Strike RAW you can't do this; fortunately Flesh Rend is already an MBA with a slide so you don't need to. The only issue is the necrotic damage, but there are plenty of ways around that.
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Apr 6, 2016 00:48
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Really Pants posted:RAW you can't do this; fortunately Flesh Rend is already an MBA with a slide so you don't need to. The only issue is the necrotic damage, but there are plenty of ways around that. Oh yeah you're totally right. It's been a while since I did any 4e stuff. Edit: There is a feat somewhere that lets you knock critters prone on a slide. For the life of me I can't remember what feat it is because I haven't touched 4e in years but the Hexblade in my Dark Sun game used it to lock down poo poo all over the place. -Fish- fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Apr 6, 2016 |
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Apr 6, 2016 00:53
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Fighter with Spiked Chain Training. Can use Mark of Storm+Lightning Weapon+Flail Expertise to prone everything, and then add Dragging Flail to slide them after you prone them. Dual Strike two guys to prone them, drag them around, and then mark them. They have to burn their move action to stand, which means that you can position them two squares away from you and most melee will be too far away to melee you but too close to charge with their standard. Or you can tuck them in right against you so that after they stand up they're stuck in melee with you unless they charge away(which will provoke an OA from you and send them right back to the floor). If you do it as a Warden Hybrid you can even use Warden mark punishment to punish fighter marks at reach, though then you have to deal with hybrid stuff.
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Apr 6, 2016 02:33
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The answer really is fighter. Spiked chain works (and I loved the Spiked Chain Arena Fighter thing), but then again, you could be literally just any given generic polearm fighter. 4e is Fighter Edition and it is glorious.
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Apr 6, 2016 03:00
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ProfessorCirno posted:4e is Fighter Edition and it is glorious.
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Apr 6, 2016 13:57
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Having a bit of a hard time designing a combat encounter that's a bit off the usual one-enemy-per-PC-and-sometimes-minions-or-traps scale. The idea is that there's a room with natural gas vents that continually leak a suffocating, flammable gas. The gas ignites on contact with fire, and there are fire elemental monsters around. The idea is for the party to defeat and capture a number of these monsters. During combat they also have to deal with the suffocation hazard and positioning of the monsters relative to the vents (or maybe gas clouds). Burning off some gas removed the suffocation hazard for a time but obviously there's a danger of taking fire damage, or causing an uncontrollable chain reaction. Some ideas I've had for modelling this: - gas vents create gas cloud zones that increase size by 1 square each round, suffocation happens only within the clouds and explosions happen only if the clouds touch fire. Size of the explosion is determined by the size of the cloud at that point. Avoidance is a good strategy but if you let the clouds get too big, they overlap eventually, which makes a controlled burning (and avoiding the cloud) harder to do. - other way around: the entire area is filled with gas, and explosions happen basically every turn, but they're fixed size and the explosion area is then safe for a time. Maybe the safe zone shrinks each round. This would probably make things more frantic and put emphasis on keeping the fire creatures within recently-made-safe zones (and staying close to them while it's safe); it could all simply be modelled by giving the creatures a close burst attack with mid-low recharge chance, and an aura which keeps you safe from suffocation. Stick close and risk their melee attacks and the burst, or snipe them from afar and risk suffocation. Maybe make Nature or Dungeoneering rolls to determine whether they recharge their burst soon (whether "gas concentration gets too high"). Another problem: the way I imagine this is that the creatures themselves are relatively easy to deal with and it's the environment that's the true danger, so they occupy a space in the mechanics that's kind of stronger than a minion, but weaker than a full-fledged same level enemy. But as a lower level regular enemy they wouldn't be a threat at all. Any ideas? My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Apr 7, 2016 11:31
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Generic CharOp question: I know that in 3rd Edition D&D, a "striker"-optimized build can get their attack bonus to the point where they only need a 2 on a d20 to hit a target of reasonable AC within their range, plus some extra for Power Attack. Does such a paradigm also exist in 4th Edition? I know you can manage a 65-75% hit rate just from [half-level bonus + ability modifier + weapon prof + enhancement bonus/inherent bonus]. Do Strikers get to close that other ~20%, or even just 10% plus always flanking?
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Apr 7, 2016 13:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:Generic CharOp question: I know that in 3rd Edition D&D, a "striker"-optimized build can get their attack bonus to the point where they only need a 2 on a d20 to hit a target of reasonable AC within their range, plus some extra for Power Attack. Generally yes. On-demand CA, getting your to-hit high enough to only miss on a 2-3 with said CA, and rerolls are the bulk of accuracy op. e: I say generally because some classes have better feats/features for it, but it's not difficult for any of them if put mind to it. Generic Octopus fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Apr 7, 2016 14:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:Generic CharOp question: I know that in 3rd Edition D&D, a "striker"-optimized build can get their attack bonus to the point where they only need a 2 on a d20 to hit a target of reasonable AC within their range, plus some extra for Power Attack. Rogues and Elementalists have it easiest, but most strikers can get to hitting at-level on a 2. Which is why combat in 4e is almost never at-level for any kind of optimised party.
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Apr 7, 2016 17:33
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I'll just ask here, too: as a Mac user, is there any way of getting the offline character builder working without a VM or dual-booting?
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Apr 7, 2016 17:59
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AweStriker posted:I'll just ask here, too: as a Mac user, is there any way of getting the offline character builder working without a VM or dual-booting? CrossOver may or may not work; I don't personally use Macs but it's the only other thing I can think of.
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Apr 7, 2016 18:25
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AweStriker posted:I'll just ask here, too: as a Mac user, is there any way of getting the offline character builder working without a VM or dual-booting? My Mac users are using VM. Couldn't get it working otherwise.
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Apr 7, 2016 18:39
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Generic Octopus posted:CrossOver may or may not work; I don't personally use Macs but it's the only other thing I can think of. CrossOver does not work, some sort of .net incompatibility.
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Apr 7, 2016 20:39
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Mustache Ride posted:CrossOver does not work, some sort of .net incompatibility. Yeah, the type of .NET code the builder runs on is hilariously badly supported by the WINE/CrossOver code bases. I've tried a good half-dozen times over the years each time there's been a significant advance in .NET support, and it doesn't even work with winetricks (a script to automate installing actual Windows components into it among other things) trickery. I think the 4e builder is half the reason I keep a Windows VM around anymore (the other half being the occasional odd thing I need for my programming work.)
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Apr 7, 2016 22:52
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gourdcaptain posted:Yeah, the type of .NET code the builder runs on is hilariously badly supported by the WINE/CrossOver code bases. I've tried a good half-dozen times over the years each time there's been a significant advance in .NET support, and it doesn't even work with winetricks (a script to automate installing actual Windows components into it among other things) trickery. I think the 4e builder is half the reason I keep a Windows VM around anymore (the other half being the occasional odd thing I need for my programming work.) Wonder how hard it would be to reverse-engineer.
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Apr 8, 2016 00:47
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Pfox posted:Wonder how hard it would be to reverse-engineer. If you're talking about the builder, it would probably be easier to implement a new builder engine (one that isn't so awful looking for one and doesn't have all the weird quirks and bugs the old one does) and import the old builders database, and it would still be a monstrous undertaking. If you're talking about reverse engineering .NET, good luck.
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Apr 8, 2016 01:01
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gourdcaptain posted:If you're talking about the builder, it would probably be easier to implement a new builder engine (one that isn't so awful looking for one and doesn't have all the weird quirks and bugs the old one does) and import the old builders database, and it would still be a monstrous undertaking.
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Apr 8, 2016 02:36
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gourdcaptain posted:If you're talking about the builder, it would probably be easier to implement a new builder engine (one that isn't so awful looking for one and doesn't have all the weird quirks and bugs the old one does) and import the old builders database, and it would still be a monstrous undertaking. More the former than the latter.
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Apr 8, 2016 03:17
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My Lovely Horse posted:Having a bit of a hard time designing a combat encounter that's a bit off the usual one-enemy-per-PC-and-sometimes-minions-or-traps scale. The idea is that there's a room with natural gas vents that continually leak a suffocating, flammable gas. The gas ignites on contact with fire, and there are fire elemental monsters around. The idea is for the party to defeat and capture a number of these monsters. During combat they also have to deal with the suffocation hazard and positioning of the monsters relative to the vents (or maybe gas clouds).  How would this be for an encounter gimmick that doesn't require me to juggle tons of map overlays in Masterplan: - the combat area has a number of vents - anyone within X squares of a vent: a) must hold their breath (using the drowning rules) b) takes 5 extra fire damage whenever they take fire damage - you can Do Stuff to a vent to plug it and render the area within X safe The party would have to move forward slowly and shut down vents as they go to eventually reach a MacGuffin, all while dealing with fire elementals... or they could send in someone with good Endurance and defenses to run in, grab the thing, and escape. Alternatively I could have leaking pipes or something, where you have to shut off the gas for one area of the map at a certain point. But that's a matter of details.
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Apr 12, 2016 12:07
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My Lovely Horse posted:Hi it's me and my overthought encounter ideas again My opinion is that hazards that can't hurt the enemies are Not Fun.
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Apr 12, 2016 14:23
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Plenty of that in the five encounters for this dungeon that aren't this one. But okay, point taken - maybe Doing Stuff can turn the hazards around somehow. ... maybe you can switch pipelines from the flammable gas to the dungeon's halon system or whatever.
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Apr 12, 2016 14:30
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I think more that hazards that only hurt the PCs should be treated as part of the XP budget since they're part of the opposition, but things that aren't budgeted should be things that work against everyone.
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Apr 12, 2016 14:49
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My Lovely Horse posted:Plenty of that in the five encounters for this dungeon that aren't this one. But okay, point taken - maybe Doing Stuff can turn the hazards around somehow. Sorry if that came out harshly. If your players have responded well to "give up actions to turn off hazard" scenarios, it's totally fine. If nothing else, it could be magical fire so hot that it momentarily overwhelms even fire elementals, reducing their resistance. Probably only fun if the players have fire powers they would love to be able to use.
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Apr 12, 2016 14:55
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I have a quick question - Playing a 3.5 game where I'm trying to crib a bunch of the tactical stuff from 4th edition, and I had the idea to make an item that gives one of the players access to the Flash spell from league of legends. This would teleport you 15 (20?) feet as a free action with a cooldown of 50 rounds. I realized that it was functionally an Encounter power, and figured I'd ask in here if there is a comparable spell or ability in 4th and what level it is. (one of the players is a rogue and a big league nut so I think it would make him really happy) Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 17:29
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Ignite Memories posted:I have a quick question - Eladrin race. Fey Step is basically that. And is highly optimisable. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 17:34
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Depends on the class. At level 2 Warlocks can teleport three squares as a move action (or as a free action upon dropping a foe for the right pacts) and gain a defensive bonus because of it, while Avengers can teleport 3 squares as an immediate reaction to being hit, while someone with the Samurai Theme and a staff of travel can teleport half their speed from the start of combat. Eladrin can teleport 5 squares as a move action from level 1 (or down to a minor with the right theme by level 10). Making it a free action on your turn then it probably be around a level 6 utility power or so (when monks can get Quicksilver Motion to move their speed as a free action at the start or end of their turn), though a wondrous item might have a bit higher of a level since there's not as much of an opportunity cost in using it. Looking at 3e's teleportation spells, comparable to something like a quickened dimensional hop, which would be a level 6 or so spell and require a caster level of 11, or better if it's a free action instead of a swift action (though the distance doesn't scale with level like the spell does). Doing it strictly by 3.5e's rules would mean the item might be fairly expensive, but I don't think you'd break anything by giving it to a rogue by level 6 to 8, where full attacks start coming into play for everyone and mobility slows to an absolute crawl since people are only taking 5 ft steps.
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Apr 12, 2016 17:51
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