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Dolash posted:That doesn't make sense. When do they go fight Caliborn for Caliborn's masterpiece, and what would happen to the Beta kids trapped in the icon then? You're asking the wrong Exposition Avatar Haver.
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Apr 13, 2016 07:58
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paranoid randroid posted:sez here that John retcons everyone to the Caliborn fight. so, again, either they just started feeling their oats and decided that theyd rather kick a 12 year old in the balls than win the stupid game, or theres eight hitherto unaccounted for copies of our protagonists floating around in the story Reading Caliborn's dialogue reminds me of how annoyed I am this thing was entirely without dialogue.
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Apr 13, 2016 07:59
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Boogaleeboo posted:Actually Jack more personally hosed with everyone. Or Vriska. Jack was just a stooge, although it's already bullshit that Jade walked away from him instead of finishing him off. They were unable to deviate from the timeline where they were all hosed and their friends and families died because it was necessary for the creation of Lord English, who's been trying to destroy all of Paradox Space and everyone in it. If it turns out Lord English actually poses no threat to them or is otherwise irrelevant to their ending then why the gently caress did we ever follow him or anyone fighting him in the Dream Bubbles? Boogaleeboo posted:I love that this is one of the things he's repeatedly said wasn't going to happen, and then it didn't, and so many people were surprised. People took that to mean it wouldn't be a big long flash battle like Collide, not that they literally wouldn't deal with him at all. Even showing up to one-shot him with some kind of teamwork power since Calliope had depowered him by destroying the Green Sun would be fine. People were surprised Hussie's penchant for shuffling occasionally important character moments offscreen would extend to the entirety of the final confrontation.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:00
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net cafe scandal posted:What was even the drat point of Gamzee. Think of everything that happened with him, and where it led. Not really dealing with The Most Important Character in Homestuck (or his lookalike) really makes me sad. I was figuring he'd be the second-to-last big battle or something but I guess dying off camera in a claymation flashback is fine too. Other things that bugged me: -Lord English Prime never got a real confrontation. Nor did Doc Scratch now that I think about it. -Did Rose ever actually learn to play the rain? I don't think she did.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:00
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I was surprised that Vriska Was Right(tm)
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Apr 13, 2016 08:01
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Comic posted:I'd say Collide works better for that, given how it's actually the final battle for our story. The thing is, I do think Collide works within the story, however, I think this animation is universally appealing, like, I could see someone looking at Collide and saying "this is weird and lovely", but this is traditional animation and it looks really good
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Apr 13, 2016 08:02
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net cafe scandal posted:A really good penance for Andrew Hussie for writing this silly ending that he made 600 unpaid interns animate would be to upload a thorough final recap page that explains in detail everything that happened in this comic since 2011. From what I can tell it was mostly just one person animating actually. Spellman posted:The thing is, I do think Collide works within the story, however, I think this animation is universally appealing, like, I could see someone looking at Collide and saying "this is weird and lovely", but this is traditional animation and it looks really good I mean it more in a 'what the gently caress just happened I need to know why' kind of way rather than the way this ends and being curious about what kind of story it even was.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:02
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One hour and 10 minutes to the real ending
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Apr 13, 2016 08:02
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Dolash being pissed and awesomely articulate about it is such a treat.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:02
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vriska did nothing wrong, forever
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Apr 13, 2016 08:02
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SynthOrange posted:I was surprised that Vriska Was Right(tm) yeah i know, im still in shock rewatching the animation, it kind of looks like something happens to the juju after vriska deploys it. it kind of looks like it breaks, in a bad way. the panels flicker and shatter.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:03
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We don't even know if trolls got repopulated. Coulda shown some new troll grubs climbing over Karkat as a callback and cute way to end his story.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:03
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Dolash posted:That doesn't make sense. When do they go fight Caliborn for Caliborn's masterpiece, and what would happen to the Beta kids trapped in the icon then? I don't think people understand your point. I think I do, but correct me if I'm wrong. The question isn't about the timeline. It's not about the order of things: that makes sense. they go through the door, live happy lives, and go fight lord english and cause that whole mess, which ends with LE having 8 balls for eyes and dying to the kids being freed from the thing. Your question is: why the hell did they go and confront LE? Why even leave the new universe? Mine is: If the series of events has the new universe dwelling fun times, which seems like it should be the final ending, somewhere in the middle: what the hell actually happens after LE is defeated? All the kids' friends are dead, their new universe has a burnt out sun, and they're a bunch of gods drifting through dream bubbles. Does the sburb cycle continue? Is the final end of homestuck that the kids live for 2 billion years until their planet dies, begrudgingly go fight LE out of boredom, win, and wander the dead cosmos with a bunch of ghosts until entropic universe death causes the end of everything?
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Apr 13, 2016 08:03
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I read/watched all of the new stuff from this year tonight and I will say Collide was really fun to watch
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Apr 13, 2016 08:04
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Comic posted:From what I can tell it was mostly just one person animating actually. The 600 unpaid interns is also in reference to the diaspora of tumblr based fan artists that AH wrangled into doing increasingly ill fitting interstitial scenes in Flashes from Act 5 on.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:04
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I'm not mad, just disappointed.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:05
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mabels big day posted:I read/watched all of the new stuff from this year tonight and I will say Collide was really fun to watch COllide was cool
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Apr 13, 2016 08:05
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john never actually opens the door before the screen irises out. one of the last things we see is Caliborn triumphant and ascending, but something bad happens to the juju at the moment of his supposed defeat. im starting to feel more and more like we are being japed here
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Apr 13, 2016 08:06
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Edit: ^^^^ I don't think Hussie is hiding a secret Real Ending, the most likely trick I can imagine is that it's actually a Bad End where Lord English wins and he's obfusticated it to make it less obvious.GeneX posted:I don't think people understand your point. I think I do, but correct me if I'm wrong. That's waaaay off the deep end of  and I hate that the ending is ambiguous enough that we're operating on what are basically incompatible versions of reality, something which until this Homestuck did a pretty good job of keeping a handle on by explaining things clearly as we went along.I can't even fully parse what you're saying. So you're suggesting the kids go to the new universe, they stay there... they die? The world dies? They're just immortal teenagers until the Heat Death Of The Universe then John retcons them to complete their time loop?
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Apr 13, 2016 08:08
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Boogaleeboo posted:Actually Jack more personally hosed with everyone. Or Vriska. It's surprising because it's one of the most basic tropes of the RPG genre that Homestuck draws from. Plus it's rad as hell. How do you make a video game themed comic and NOT do that!? That's like, the whole reason you do a series like this! Dolash posted:People took that to mean it wouldn't be a big long flash battle like Collide, not that they literally wouldn't deal with him at all. Even showing up to one-shot him with some kind of teamwork power since Calliope had depowered him by destroying the Green Sun would be fine. Yeah what this guy said. Hussie could have also had some sort of dialogue-based climax between him and John or something. Which, considering that dialogue is this series' strong point would have been pretty awesome. I would LOVE to hear what adult Lord English is like to have a conversation with.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:10
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GeneX posted:Does the sburb cycle continue? The sburb cycle continues forever, the demiurge wins, hope was a lie.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:12
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readingatwork posted:I would LOVE to hear what adult Lord English is like to have a conversation with. Adults can't talk in Homestuck. Unless they're dead. They can leave notes though!
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Apr 13, 2016 08:12
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Lord Englishs only lines were to Damara in the Doc Scratch intermission right. Thats a shame.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:12
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...it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Homestuck.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:12
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He sounded really different than Caliborn too. Ah well
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Apr 13, 2016 08:13
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readingatwork posted:It's surprising because it's one of the most basic tropes of the RPG genre that Homestuck draws from. I think it's finally time that you accept the obvious truth. This isn't an rpg webcomic, it's an anime.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:14
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paranoid randroid posted:john never actually opens the door before the screen irises out. one of the last things we see is Caliborn triumphant and ascending, but something bad happens to the juju at the moment of his supposed defeat. nothing bad happens to the juju, the icon of a door begins to form in it, indicating that the trapped kids are about to leave the house
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Apr 13, 2016 08:15
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I guess John and friends just decided they needed to kick Caliborn's rear end at some point. Maybe after he made a big black hole in their universe, IDK.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:15
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ah nevermind, that was caliborn smashing the clock panel, not the juju breaking whatever! the end. it was kind of unsatisfying, but what wouldnt be after 7 years paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Apr 13, 2016 |
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Apr 13, 2016 08:16
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paranoid randroid posted:john never actually opens the door before the screen irises out. one of the last things we see is Caliborn triumphant and ascending, but something bad happens to the juju at the moment of his supposed defeat. I kind of suspect that this may be the case as well. In fact it was exactly my assumption before I re-watched the thing and started reading thread speculation. Let's all hope that this is exactly the case because this would be a pretty boss way to start a final confrontation.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:18
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I need to sleep. Final thoughts: crushed and disappointed that Homestuck ended with a relative whimper, as well as the impression that the creator has lost the initial spark that drove the story in earlier days to such heights. Homestuck's been such a good ride for so long and there were so many good reasons to believe it would deliver with its ending, that to falter on the last hurdle feels like an incredible letdown. I will miss you guys, since Homestuck is over and we will now gradually drift away (well, I mean, to the rest of the forums). It was a good journey and a fun event to be a part of, a very active community of fans and I do not regret the monstrous number of posts I've sunk into it. It's just sad it's ending this way and there's nothing left for us to do but debate and argue the merits of the ending or where exactly things started to go wrong. That might be the worst part of this ending, that it's not something universally enjoyable that we could praise together. I don't want to diminish the enjoyment of the people who've spoken in favor of it, it's just too bad it's not working for all of us. Ah well.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:20
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i mean the ending is p much exactly what it appeared to be and, what the author told us it would be, years in advance
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Apr 13, 2016 08:20
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Serious Literary Analysis Time: I've said it before and I'll say it again. Eschewing traditional narrative structures in an otherwise straightforward plot (IE Anything not intentionally surrealist such as Monty Python) is a recipe for disaster. In order to progress in a satisfactory way, a story needs protagonists who move the plot forward of their own volition and experience character arcs. Don't give me any horseshit that "people don't have arcs," these are characters. For most of the story Homestuck seems to build up to something grand, but it never seemed to get there. The characters tended to fart around while pushed toward some goal neither they nor the audience is completely clear on. It's fun to watch them screw around, but if Hussie wants these characters to embark on a epic creation myth then he needs to set a goal (often both a stated, external goal, and an unstated internal goal tied to their growth as a character), then have every construct in the story either help or hinder the protagonists in achieving that goal. Homestuck's failing is that Hussie tries to create a mostly serious narrative without adhering to character grown, plot progression, and appropriately structured and paced acts. Honestly it's a commendable effort, but one that ultimately does not work (and perhaps Hussie figured that out?). Instead the narrative falls apart under its own weight and lack of direction, nearly all the characters feel very underdeveloped by the end, and there is no sense of closure or completion. TL,DR: Every now and then some chucklefuck comes along and decides to create an experimental narrative outside of pre-established apparatuses. Then the work collapses and they get kicked to the curb like Charlie Chaplin's Tramp. Anyway Hussie is the chuckle and we are the fucks.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:23
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http://www.youdubber.com/index.php?video=FevMNMwvdPw&video_start=420&audio=DehmPOkrtRc&audio_start=0
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Apr 13, 2016 08:24
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i just watched [S] Cascade again and it was way better than the ending. go watch Cascade after doing so, though, it occured to me what we motherfuckin are 
atomicthumbs fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Apr 13, 2016 |
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Apr 13, 2016 08:25
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paranoid randroid posted:sez here that John retcons everyone to the Caliborn fight. so, again, either they just started feeling their oats and decided that theyd rather kick a 12 year old in the balls than win the stupid game, or theres eight hitherto unaccounted for copies of our protagonists floating around in the story Does it matter? Hussie never bothered to identify where they came from, and they're retconned in. They could've come from anywhere in paradox space once John had retconny powers. Maybe I'm just thinking too simply by not looking for a cause, but I thought the joke was that they were literally retconned in to fight him, regardless of what happens otherwise in canon.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:26
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpYEJx7PkWE
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Apr 13, 2016 08:26
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Ammat The Ankh posted:Serious Literary Analysis Time: perhaps it is your expectation that this is a "mostly serious narrative" that is the problem, here? in this gay teen anime comic?
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Apr 13, 2016 08:27
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Dolash posted:
Maybe this will parse better: What I think is the sequence of events: 1) John and co. open door on lilypad. 2) They enter the new universe. 3) At some unspecified point in the future of this universe, some long time in the future, they go and fight LE as per Caliborn's thing. 4) They get trapped. 5) Fast forward to Vriska freeing them, they beat Lord English. 6) What the hell happens now? A possible alternative: 1) John and co. are about to open the door on the lilypad. 2) They decide to, despite their goal being right in front of them, jump to Caliborn's origin story. 3) They get trapped. 4) Fast forward to Vriska freeing them, they beat Lord English. 5) They enter the new universe. So: If what I think is the timeline is correct, why did they leave the new universe to confront LE? Following from that, assuming they had a good reason, what happens after they beat LE? Do they live happily ever after? Do they warp back to their new universe, exist for a while, and then the planet ends up in Caliborn's origin story at some point? Where did they go, if that's the case? If I'm wrong, and the alternative I'm considering is right: Why the hell didn't they just go into the new universe at point 2)? Why jump to earlier in Caliborn's story, instead of to the end, where Vriska is opening the thing? And if neither of the sequences of events I'm looking at are right, what the hell just happened? Jen X fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Apr 13, 2016 |
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Apr 13, 2016 08:27
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Ammat The Ankh posted:Serious Literary Analysis Time: I'm gonna take the opposite view and say that after literally 2 LOTRs of raw dialogue, I have a really clear view of all the characters and their personal emotional arcs. That they weren't tied directly to the RPG conflict or central to the creation of the new universe definitely is a failure by many people's measure and clearly left you and others unfulfilled, but come on, we definitely don't lack for an absurd amount of character insight and depth. Or don't you recall literally 10k words of Dirk and Dave sussing out the emotions and consequences of abuse at the hands of family?
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Apr 13, 2016 08:28
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