|
The addition of Hayden Christensen at the end of Return of the Jedi is a painful reminder of the existence of the prequels. We can't just ignore them. George Lucas is forcing us to acknowledge them. "gently caress you respected actor Sebastian Shaw! I'm going to awkwardly replace you with one of the worst actors in history!"
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 01:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 07:11 |
|
|
Yaws posted:The addition of Hayden Christensen at the end of Return of the Jedi is a painful reminder of the existence of the prequels. We can't just ignore them. George Lucas is forcing us to acknowledge them. This reads like a parody.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 01:38
|
|
|
homullus posted:"Choices" cost money to make, and I think the Star Wars fundamentalist internet echo chamber wayyyy overestimates how much people give a gently caress at all about Star Wars as it was originally inscribed on stone tablets. Like, making the DVDs and Blu-rays, paying artists and layout people to make the art and inserts, marketing the things, shipping the things -- it all costs money. It's not enough to sell them to 15,000 nerds with deluded ideas about what they have a "right" to when the rest will sit on the shelves. So sell that poo poo online or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 01:56
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:So sell that poo poo online or something. Print-on-demand would be great for something like this
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 01:58
|
|
|
Yaws posted:The addition of Hayden Christensen at the end of Return of the Jedi is a painful reminder of the existence of the prequels. We can't just ignore them. George Lucas is forcing us to acknowledge them. It is kinda dumb but not because SS is a better actor than Hayden like LOL. What are your fav Sebastian Shaw movies?
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 02:13
|
|
|
porfiria posted:It is kinda dumb but not because SS is a better actor than Hayden like LOL. What are your fav Sebastian Shaw movies? I liked him in X-Men.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 02:16
|
|
|
So I kinda checked out of Rebels around the time of space whales but I dipped back in occasionally and now I checked it out again and surprise the last episode was awesome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UVJSJOiLk4 Little weird seeing Vader interacting with Disney's self-insert, but I liked the way the episode built up to him unlocking the Sith artifact in the end, and the use of color there (not part of the video above). And how you could tell Kanan was blind just from his posture when he approached Ezra. And everything about Ahsoka.  Some of the animation is still questionable, especially whole-body movements outside fight scenes, but there was a lot of polish in some places and cape physics to enjoy. Also some things seemed to have textures now which is always good for separating us from late 90s FMV territory.Also even if you rid us of those dumb Inquisitors AND jacked Vader's ride I still don't care about you Maul.  Or you, weird Yoda bird.e: I should add though that Maul's service in destroying the Inquisitors was doubly valuable because they introduced the aforementioned inquisicopters in this same episode.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 02:28
|
|
|
I caught that episode of Rebels randomly, and was amused that they were debating whether or not they could trust Maul. You know, the dude that looks like the devil. Also he steals Vader's TIE, so that was fun.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 02:58
|
|
|
Ezra was just trying not to be space racist c'mon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 03:01
|
|
|
Among its many faults, the worst thing about Rebels is Space Aladdin.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 03:41
|
|
|
The quality of Rebels episodes is usually inversely related to the amount of time spent with Ezra and Kanan. That said, that season finale was really good, and a fine way for Ahsoka to go out if we don't see her again (we will though).
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 03:52
|
|
|
They showed her walking into the temple at the end.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 07:16
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:He's not seeing Anakin at his "best." There's really no such thing as a "best" version of a person. He's seeing Anakin at the last point before he decided to forsake his humanity. That's the important part. Why wouldn't this apply to the SS ghost, depicting an Anakin who has redeemed himself and reclaimed his humanity? Nothing about this reading seems to not apply to the original version, which doesn't say much good about the new version of its justification is entirely defensive. If anything, the Hayden version is stranger for depicting Vader at his peak, whereas Obi (who consistently retained his humanity and dignity under pressure) gets to be depicted as a frail old man, incapable of much else beyond giving Luke directions and not telling him his father is hitler. Thanks Luke. Lanks. Not to mention the implication that Anakin never was redeemed nor could be redeemed, which would be out of line with the entire climax of the film and the morals told. An opportunistic smuggler can show self-sacrifice, a capitalist can show compassion, a queen can fight for the people, but Vader was apparently a lost cause, good for little else but exploiting to chuck geriatric vampires over OSHA condemned railings. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Apr 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 08:01
|
|
|
I understand using Hayden because he is more recognizable than Shaw if you're watching the series as a whole, but maybe they should have aged him up a little bit with makeup or something instead of just using costume test footage that he didn't even know about.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 09:50
|
|
|
Surely the ghost that should appear is the one that depicts a man that's finally at peace having saved his son and not the one that murdered a bunch of children.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 10:16
|
|
|
Evety youngling killed is a cycle of violence ended
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 14:04
|
|
|
Can't you guys find an "original" vhs on eBay or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 14:07
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Why wouldn't this apply to the SS ghost, depicting an Anakin who has redeemed himself and reclaimed his humanity? Nothing about this reading seems to not apply to the original version, which doesn't say much good about the new version of its justification is entirely defensive. You're still not getting it. The Anakin who saved Luke and reclaimed his humanity was a pale withered husk with scars all over his face. The point is that he went back to who he was before all that happened to him. He picked up as Anakin in ROTJ where he left off as Anakin the last time in ROTS. Anakin isn't a 77-year-old man, or even a 46-year-old man. He's a 23-year-old man. He spent the majority of the last 23 years of his life as Vader, not Anakin. The ghost was always meant to represent Anakin as he was before his fall from grace, not as an old man miraculously healed of his injuries. Back then, Lucas simply decided to use Shaw and tried to make him look younger than he really was (which was 77). But it didn't really work that well, obviously. And it made even less sense when the prequels came out and showed what Anakin looked like before he became Vader. quote:If anything, the Hayden version is stranger for depicting Vader at his peak, whereas Obi (who consistently retained his humanity and dignity under pressure) gets to be depicted as a frail old man, incapable of much else beyond giving Luke directions and not telling him his father is hitler. Thanks Luke. Lanks. What's wrong with looking like an old man? When he died, that's what Obi-Wan looked like on the inside as well as on the outside. He was an old man. The way you look as a ghost isn't some sort of reward system, where getting to look young is a greater prize than having to look old. It's like we're talking at fundamentally cross-purposes here. The Hayden version is absolutely not "Vader at his peak." Are you even thinking about what you're saying? Vader at his peak is when he's a burn victim in a metal suit acting as the slave of a mad tyrant. You know, when he looked like this under the mask:  Logically, this is how he should look as a ghost, right, since it's what he looked like when he died as Anakin? Well no, you say, because that's not what he looked like on the inside. Hmmmmm, you don't say? quote:Not to mention the implication that Anakin never was redeemed nor could be redeemed, which would be out of line with the entire climax of the film and the morals told. An opportunistic smuggler can show self-sacrifice, a capitalist can show compassion, a queen can fight for the people, but Vader was apparently a lost cause, good for little else but exploiting to chuck geriatric vampires over OSHA condemned railings. Well, get over it. He wasn't "redeemed," at least not in the sense you're talking about. Saving Luke and destroying the Emperor didn't erase all the horror and death he inflicted on the galaxy over the course of the past 23 years as the Emperor's right-hand man. Did Alderaan somehow get un-blown up? That was never the point. You don't actually understand the morals of the original Star Wars trilogy in the first place. The point was in Anakin reclaiming his humanity, warts and all. The reason he was able to do this is because Luke was willing to accept him as a human being--even the Vader parts of him--and show him mercy. I repeat, the point was never to pretend that Anakin's sins never occurred. That's not the kind of redemption the Star Wars films offer. All the people he murdered are still dead. All the pain he caused still lingers. What Anakin did is to make a choice to set things right in the present, even though it won't and can't change what happened in the past. That's the emotional hurdle that was preventing him from forsaking the darkness during all his long years as Vader. He couldn't admit to himself that what he was doing as Vader was wrong, because then he would have to live with all the monstrous things he'd already done. Instead, he made a choice to live out the rest of his life as the utilitarian machine known as Darth Vader, because that was easier than owning up to the fact that he was a deeply flawed human being who had sinned greatly. He didn't possess the strength to own up to his human flaws until that final moment when his son finally accepted those parts of him as human and reaffirmed his love for him in spite of everything. And that's what brought Anakin back from the dead. I think that constitutes a much more powerful, meaningful, and life-affirming message than whatever it is you're spouting, and it also happens to be the message that was intended by the creator of the films. Yorkshire Tea posted:Surely the ghost that should appear is the one that depicts a man that's finally at peace having saved his son and not the one that murdered a bunch of children. Agreed. So he should look like this, right?
Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Apr 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 14:08
|
|
|
I agree it makes much more cinematic sense to have Hayden there at the end of the sextology.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 14:12
|
|
|
Hello yes I'm writing my dissertation on why it's actually the right move to edit a 30 year old movie so that the original actor is photoshopped out in favor of another one. It makes sense if you watch the sextology in my recommended order.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 15:48
|
|
|
It's just loving weird seeing Hayden inserted into a movie that was made when he was two. It takes me out of the movie a bit
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 16:07
|
|
|
I think we can all agree that regardless of which actor they use, it was a major oversight to not include his harmonica. It clearly meant a lot to the character, considering he had it installed on his face permanently.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 16:10
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:Hello yes I'm writing my dissertation on why it's actually the right move to edit a 30 year old movie so that the original actor is photoshopped out in favor of another one. It makes sense if you watch the sextology in my recommended order. Is that the arcane recommended order the same order as the films are numbered? What a weird way to watch a films series, I'm sure nobody has ever done that before.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 16:11
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:Hello yes I'm writing my dissertation on why it's actually the right move to edit a 30 year old movie so that the original actor is photoshopped out in favor of another one. It makes sense if you watch the sextology in my recommended order. This but unironically.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 16:14
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:You're still not getting it. The Anakin who saved Luke and reclaimed his humanity was a pale withered husk with scars all over his face. The point is that he went back to who he was before all that happened to him. He picked up as Anakin in ROTJ where he left off as Anakin the last time in ROTS. Anakin isn't a 77-year-old man, or even a 46-year-old man. He's a 23-year-old man. He spent the majority of the last 23 years of his life as Vader, not Anakin. This is a lot of words to say the same thing: that Anakin was not redeemed and could not be saved. As a firm believer in rehabilitation I find myself unwilling to agree with Vader over Luke when he says it's too late for him. And yes, I would entirely be fine with him appearing in his Unmasked Vader visage; its the culmination of all of Anakins experiences, acknowledgement of who he has become, and how he has shed his mask to return to his humanity. A ghost of this form would be infinitely wiser and more respectable than his unhinged, unwise youth. And like you said; everyone he killed is still dead; it's disrespectable to return to his pre-vader form.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:Hello yes I'm writing my dissertation on why it's actually the right move to edit a 30 year old movie so that the original actor is photoshopped out in favor of another one. It makes sense if you watch the sextology in my recommended order. I'm glad this is settled. Please post your work when it's done it sounds good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 17:18
|
|
|
It's cool that they made a point to digitally shave Vader's brows and change his eye color to Hayden's but the matte boxes on TIEs and almost every lightsaber are still a complete mess.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 17:27
|
|
|
I think I prefer the original because we see that Anakin, as we see him at the end of his life, has been made whole. The scarred, limbless man we saw at the end has been repaired in spirit,
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 17:27
|
|
|
Ghost Anakin should look like a middle-aged dad because Luke is a twenty-something thinking about Vader as his father looking down on him from after his death.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
Toilet Mouth posted:I think I prefer the original because we see that Anakin, as we see him at the end of his life, has been made whole. The scarred, limbless man we saw at the end has been repaired in spirit, Same here. Plus, he obviously aged in spite of all his metal prosthesis and whatnot. I never thought it made sense for him to somehow revert 30 or so years chronologically.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:Hello yes I'm writing my dissertation on why it's actually the right move to edit a 30 year old movie so that the original actor is photoshopped out in favor of another one. It makes sense if you watch the sextology in my recommended order. Effort? Whuh! BUh!
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 19:15
|
|
|
The point of the special edition is that Luke has brought back Vader's human side, and that human side is an idiot. Lucas loves a good joke, and this is the best ever: a joke on the children.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 19:21
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Lucas loves a good joke, and this is the best ever: a joke on the children. Gamera does not approve, bub
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
Is there any reason why Max von Sydow wasn't cast as Supreme Leader Ming the Merciless instead of being wasted in a throw-away role?
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 21:20
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:This is a lot of words to say the same thing: that Anakin was not redeemed and could not be saved. As a firm believer in rehabilitation I find myself unwilling to agree with Vader over Luke when he says it's too late for him. "Redemption" is a pretty ethereal concept with many gradations of possible meaning. For that reason, when I said Anakin was not "redeemed" in the sense which you described, I was careful to specify exactly what I meant by that. I went into a great bit of detail, in fact. If would be nice if you would actually address the substance of my post and point out specifically where you disagree with me. I do think he was redeemed, but just not in the way that you would have liked him to be. quote:And yes, I would entirely be fine with him appearing in his Unmasked Vader visage; its the culmination of all of Anakins experiences, acknowledgement of who he has become, and how he has shed his mask to return to his humanity. A ghost of this form would be infinitely wiser and more respectable than his unhinged, unwise youth. And like you said; everyone he killed is still dead; it's disrespectable to return to his pre-vader form. The Hayden ghost isn't the ghost of an unhinged, unwise youth. It's the ghost of a young man who was struggling with difficult choices, just like Luke was at that age, and ultimately ended up making the wrong decision, just like Luke almost did. Metaphorically, that's when Anakin "died." But then Luke brought him back, and Anakin had the opportunity to make the right choice this time. Now the ghost of that young man is at peace. A ghost of Anakin as a withered old man wouldn't be any wiser than the ghost of him as a young man. Anakin didn't learn anything at all as Darth Vader. Those were lost years. He gave up. He completely forsook his humanity. You don't grow as a person by becoming Darth Vader. You don't gain any wisdom through giving yourself up to Satan and refusing to acknowledge the reality of your own evil actions. Blowing up planets, torturing princesses, and cold-bloodedly strangling people to death aren't just simple stepping stones on the road to self-knowledge. Those aren't learning experiences. There was nothing to learn. He already knew that what he was doing was wrong. He knew it all along. But he was too weak to own up to that fact. When he finally did learn something, it was as a result of the unconditional love shown to him by Luke on the second Death Star. It was the first time in 23 years that he experienced growth as a person. Sir Kodiak posted:Ghost Anakin should look like a middle-aged dad because Luke is a twenty-something thinking about Vader as his father looking down on him from after his death. No, that's not what Luke is. That was never the point of the story, not even when Shaw was the ghost. Luke is a grown-up. He doesn't need his father looking "down" on him or watching over him. The point is that Luke has finally come to terms with who his father really was. His father wasn't an unimpeachable paragon of fatherly virtue any more than he was an irredeemable avatar of oppression and evil. In truth, his father was a man, just like Luke, with weaknesses and flaws. At the end of the trilogy, the message is that Luke has become his father. That's why he tells the Emperor, "I am a Jedi, like my father before me." He understands for the first time what actually happened to his father, and as a result he gains the clarity needed to resist the pull of the dark side. It's seeing Luke "become" him and make the right choice where he had previously made the wrong one that awakens the long-dormant Anakin within Vader.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 21:26
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:Is there any reason why Max von Sydow wasn't cast as Supreme Leader Ming the Merciless instead of being wasted in a throw-away role? He's going to die like yesterday
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 21:45
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:A ghost of Anakin as a withered old man wouldn't be any wiser than the ghost of him as a young man. Anakin didn't learn anything at all as Darth Vader. Those were lost years. He gave up. He completely forsook his humanity. You don't grow as a person by becoming Darth Vader. You don't gain any wisdom through giving yourself up to Satan and refusing to acknowledge the reality of your own evil actions. This is where you lose me because this is literally exactly the opposite of what happens. The entire climax of the trilogy is Vader learning, gaining wisdom, and changing. His redemption is the culmination of everything he's seen and done. He doesn't snap and revert to his 25 year old bitter murderous past self. Cnut the Great posted:Blowing up planets, torturing princesses, and cold-bloodedly strangling people to death aren't just simple stepping stones on the road to self-knowledge. Those aren't learning experiences. There was nothing to learn. He already knew that what he was doing was wrong. He knew it all along. But he was too weak to own up to that fact. When he finally did learn something, it was as a result of the unconditional love shown to him by Luke on the second Death Star. It was the first time in 23 years that he experienced growth as a person. There was nothing to learn, except what he did learn. He never grew, except when he did. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Apr 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 22:43
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:Agreed. So he should look like this, right? Well then he'd be hopping on one leg and wouldn't have one arm. Given that that's really silly I'm okay with them adding an arm and a leg and with those changes I'm also willing to allow hair and a tan.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 22:49
|
|
|
euphronius posted:I'm glad this is settled. I will definitely let you know, it's taken me forever so I was worried no one would care, but I'm glad to see there's still a lively debate on the subject.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 22:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 07:11 |
|
|
Hayden Christensen and Sebastian Shaw look nothing alike. We seen Anakin looking like this: and a scene later we see him 'as a younger man' looking like this:  My brain just can't reconcile the fact that they're the same people. And what time period is this Anakin supposed to be anyway? He's in clothes we've never seen him in before and has the haircut from RotS. At that point Anakin had already slaughtered those Tusken Raiders so he was very much Team Evil. He hadn't been 'redeemed' by Luke at that point. He's still a dickhead murderer. So why is Luke looking at him with such affection? Pairing Alec Guinness Obi-Wan with Hayden Christensen Anakin is jarring too. It's a mess. Ugh. Whatever. It sucks. If Lucas had to insert a younger Anakin he shoulda done this:  Anakin is indisputably innocent here.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2016 23:32
|
|