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Akett posted:I just realized in the metanarrative the villain won: the ending nullified the basic ability of intelligent beings in all real and hypothetical planes of existence to give a poo poo. Has the villain won if the readers have no idea how he won or even if he clearly did, and is it s victory if they don't care he won anyways?
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Apr 13, 2016 10:52
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:And here it is, the bitching about the bitching has just started. this is hardly the first
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Apr 13, 2016 10:53
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The villain didnt win as zoolooman explained, he lost it was just portrayed as confusingly as possible and the way it happened can be summarized as "Because"
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Apr 13, 2016 10:54
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Black August posted:Has the villain won if the readers have no idea how he won or even if he clearly did, and is it s victory if they don't care he won anyways? Wasn't Caliborn the hateful side of the fandom? If he didn't win, he certainly gained a lot more resonance today
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Apr 13, 2016 10:54
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Black August posted:I lost respect for the dude when he said writing was easy compared to art. This is coming from a guy who can program software for photoshop, or illustrate a comic book. He can say
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Apr 13, 2016 10:55
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WAR FOOT posted:this is hardly the first Really? Sorry, I kind of just skimmed through the last couple of pages.
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Apr 13, 2016 10:55
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Black August posted:I lost respect for the dude when he said writing was easy compared to art. For him and his process, it probably is. Homestuck's story and writing was clearly all very stream-of-consciousness, he pretty much just put it all onto the page as it came to him, regardless of how much that made sense. But he's more of a visual guy, so he clearly put a lot more thought and focus into the art than that, thinking it over, revising, and practicing it far more than the writing. I do find that approach a bit of a shame, yeah, but that's because I think he's actually got some fantastic ideas that would be put to great action by putting as much thought into their presentation as he does his art.
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Apr 13, 2016 10:55
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I wish I knew what Karkat's purpose was. I thought he was going to turn out to be Actual Troll Jesus with his Blood powers and Caliborn was his Antichrist or Satan or somethin' like that and we'd get a Y'know A final battle
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Apr 13, 2016 10:55
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Spellman posted:This is coming from a guy who can program software for photoshop, or illustrate a comic book. He can say Well, clearly writing isn't as easy as he claims it is if he can't finish a story worth a poo poo.
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Apr 13, 2016 10:56
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my only disappointment is that my boy karkat never got to do anything cool
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Apr 13, 2016 10:58
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What happened to the sprites? We haven't seen GCatavros since he was prototyped.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:00
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Black August posted:Well, clearly writing isn't as easy as he claims it is if he can't finish a story worth a poo poo. You might be right, but we'll see Generally though, he usually doesn't dive into poo poo he's lovely at, and he's got a bodywork of swell poo poo to say he's not bad at a thing like this
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Apr 13, 2016 11:00
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WAR FOOT posted:What happened to the sprites? Why were the sprites^2 made at all?
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Apr 13, 2016 11:01
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Black August posted:Well, clearly writing isn't as easy as he claims it is if he can't finish a story worth a poo poo. i think he meant that, as far as the creative process goes, coming up with words to type is much easier for him than framing the artwork; the quality of either is a separate thing
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Apr 13, 2016 11:01
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Oxxidation posted:I suspect the smoldering from this will go on for about a week before the fanbase at large stubs their cigarette out on Homestuck's coffin and walks away from the grave. Grey skies outside. A cold and gentle drizzle. All in attendance are solemn-faced, wearing the hats of serious men.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:02
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Karkat's purpose was mostly shouting. Shouting's hard, so I'll give him points for being so good at doing it at length. And I still think a 'final battle' of any kind like that would've been disappointing, too. I feel like what we're really asking for is an ending more than just 'it ends', with some form of proper closure. I dunno if a fight would've been the most satisfying way to do that, because I think we also would've been disappointed to see that Lord English got beat by just being beaten up, but I suppose it would be more of one than we got.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:04
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DaveKap posted:Actually, I'm just gonna re-read Homestuck. This is one of those "the ride was more enjoyable than the end" kind of situations, after all. Like Evangelion, Mass Effect 3, and Lost. Except I didn't watch Lost and never will. I don't remember who said it earlier, but you're going back to the striptease after the sloppiest of handjobs.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:04
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Spellman posted:You might be right, but we'll see I figure he's just bad at length. Keep him to a one or two years max on a project and it goes great. Like Problem Sleuth which was FANTASTIC. Or Acts 1-4 which I still like a whole lot and inspired me. After that length his writing skills look like they start to go right to hell. In the end the story didn't need 12 trolls after the first 4 really, much less another 12 on top of that, or even Caliborn and Callope, or just a good goddamn 5000 pages it felt like. I've never seen a story so mishandled in pacing and development of cast.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:04
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Ironically the latest Evangelion movies have all had great endings. And honestly, I kind of like the endings the anime series had too (both "congratulations" and "everyone turns into tang"). They were weird, but they fit.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:05
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To bring this back to what Zoolooman said, if we were supposed to take Caliborn's masterpiece at face value, meaning that what he said was literally what happened, than it was a bloody idiotic move to show it to us, because it robbed the finale of having something to do. It's a spoiler within the story itself. I am going to assume that this was made to buy himself some time for this epilogue he mentioned before. It's still not a good decision, but apparently there is a precedent in Problem Sleuth in the ending itself being a mess and the epilogue straightening it out, if I understand some of the earlier posts correctly.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:06
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paradoxGentleman posted:To bring this back to what Zoolooman said, if we were supposed to take Caliborn's masterpiece at face value, meaning that what he said was literally what happened, than it was a bloody idiotic move to show it to us, because it robbed the finale of having something to do. It's a spoiler within the story itself. It more reminds me of Fallout 3's ending, in that the Devteam went "poo poo, we didn't realize they wouldn't like it!" and announced a fix.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:07
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I mean, I'm grateful for an epilogue? Hussie could've just walked away.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:08
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I just find it amazing that he made such a visually stunning ending that was worse than if he had just looped time back to the first page. Even that would have been more accepted. Hell, right now I'll come up with a better crappy open ending with that exact idea. Time loops back to the first page. But it's the 4/10 flash beta page from 7 years ago. We come total full loop back to the very first red herring as Hussie explains that the 4/10 beta timeline is the actual, true timeline that all of paradox space just got reset to, and now we all get to imagine how thing go differently and make up our own Homestucks. The end, no moral.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:09
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Black August posted:Hell, right now I'll come up with a better crappy open ending with that exact idea. Time loops back to the first page. But it's the 4/10 flash beta page from 7 years ago. We come total full loop back to the very first red herring as Hussie explains that the 4/10 beta timeline is the actual, true timeline that all of paradox space just got reset to, and now we all get to imagine how thing go differently and make up our own Homestucks. The end, no moral. That's a poo poo ending, and it is in no way better than "Homestuck is now an anime".
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Apr 13, 2016 11:10
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Homestuck has done weird out-of-order twists before. I thought that was actually one of the cooler parts of act 5, the way you'd learn about events in a weird order due to the timeline and they'd come together later. It's something that felt missing from act 6 to me and I'm glad the ending has at least one instance of it.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:15
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Black August posted:I just find it amazing that he made such a visually stunning ending that was worse than if he had just looped time back to the first page. Even that would have been more accepted. That's The Dark Tower and people hated that too
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Apr 13, 2016 11:17
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Daius posted:That's The Dark Tower and people hated that too Yeah exactly my thinking But even that's more satisfying an answer than what we got
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Apr 13, 2016 11:18
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Black August posted:I just find it amazing that he made such a visually stunning ending that was worse than if he had just looped time back to the first page. Even that would have been more accepted. Play Bravely Second, you might like how that approaches something similar. Or you might hate the idea after seeing it play out. One of the two.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:21
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Oxxidation posted:I suspect the smoldering from this will go on for about a week before the fanbase at large stubs their cigarette out on Homestuck's coffin and walks away from the grave. Grey skies outside. A cold and gentle drizzle. All in attendance are solemn-faced, wearing the hats of serious men. I dunno, I've been having some nice discussions about the ending with people elsewhere now that the "WHAT OH MY GOD THATS IT FUUUUUUUCK" shitpost rush of the first hour or two has calmed down, and people have started actually analyzing and discussing what happened. I still haven't fully organized my thoughts on it but it's been interesting to see the analysis on what alt-callie was doing and how the juju actually worked, and how other aspects of the story (like caliborn's masterpiece) might fit into the ending. BladekindEyewear of all people brought up a post of Hussie's awhile back where he talks about how Homestuck was always meant to be both a story and a puzzle, and I think this sort of ending is in line with that. I think a lot of people lost sight of what Homestuck was trying to do in the first place or just got really caught up in particular aspects of it they liked and had really lofty expectations for the ending that I don't think would have ever been met no matter what Hussie did. So I can kind of understand the disappointment. I hope that the epilogue will help explain things a bit to those who haven't figured it all out, or maybe reveal to us things that we missed, or at least give a little more closure for some people. It seems to me that might have been the plan all along, to put out an ending that requires some work to understand, let people chew on it for awhile, and then add a final bit more to kind of bring it all together and give insight into Hussie's intent for the ending and maybe the story overall. BKEW pointed out that pretty much this same thing (confusing ending followed by an epilogue later on that sorts things out better) happened with Problem Sleuth as well. (edit: looks like people have already mentioned that here too THERES TOO MUCH HOMESTUCK CHAT TO READ) Anyway I guess we're weirdly not QUITE done with Homestuck yet still, but I hope those of you that seem to really need to get off this train can do so. You should be happy! You're going to be free!
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Apr 13, 2016 11:21
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WAR FOOT posted:I mean, I'm grateful for an epilogue? Hussie could've just walked away. this is where im at. just give me some good old fashion pesterlogs to put this thing to bed and ill be a happy guy
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Apr 13, 2016 11:29
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cathead posted:I think a lot of people lost sight of what Homestuck was trying to do in the first place or just got really caught up in particular aspects of it they liked and had really lofty expectations for the ending that I don't think would have ever been met no matter what Hussie did. So I can kind of understand the disappointment. I hope that the epilogue will help explain things a bit to those who haven't figured it all out, or maybe reveal to us things that we missed, or at least give a little more closure for some people. It seems to me that might have been the plan all along, to put out an ending that requires some work to understand, let people chew on it for awhile, and then add a final bit more to kind of bring it all together and give insight into Hussie's intent for the ending and maybe the story overall. BKEW pointed out that pretty much this same thing (confusing ending followed by an epilogue later on that sorts things out better) happened with Problem Sleuth as well. (edit: looks like people have already mentioned that here too THERES TOO MUCH HOMESTUCK CHAT TO READ) What was Homestuck trying to do, in your opinion? Because it most certainly had LE as a major antagonist and then sort of forgot to get rid of him in a satisfying way. If the idea was that we leave him behind to work on the new universe, then at least give us a shot of him raging helplessly while everyone else skips ahead while simultaneously flipping him off.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:33
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paradoxGentleman posted:What was Homestuck trying to do, in your opinion? Because it most certainly had LE as a major antagonist and then sort of forgot to get rid of him in a satisfying way. Why include him at all? Why have any of act 6? Why drag act six out for so long?
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Apr 13, 2016 11:34
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One question that's been plaguing me is this. Why the gently caress should anyone care about Lord English? What exactly did he really do apart from kill some lovely ghosts that weren't even meant to exist? Doc Scratch said he ate universes, but the only universes that got destroyed were old, used up ones that had already been hosed up by their SBurb sessions. Back when the coding analogies were still a thing, I actually kind of assumed Lord English was Skaia's garbage collector, tasked with going around deleting objects that weren't going to be used anymore. You know, clearing up the RAM of Paradox Space so that there was space for new universes to propagate. Lord English was entirely pointless and changed basically nothing about this ending. The final battle could have omitted The Felt and LE-infected Jack and it would have made no difference at all. Condesce was the real final boss, Lord English was basically the secret boss you fight after the final boss who's way harder but has no bearing at all on the plot.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:37
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paradoxGentleman posted:What was Homestuck trying to do, in your opinion? It was the story of some kids that tried to create a new universe but some assholes kept getting in the way. In the end they created a universe.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:37
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Condy was a better villain than English for the last half of the comic. She killed, tortured, imprisoned, enslaved, committed genocide. She also went down like something of a punk.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:38
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Heck, Eridan had a more satisfying defeat than Condy or Bec Noir.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:38
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not so fan theory: lord english was skaia's garbage collector, and without him paradox space will experience a memory leak and crash when there's no more memory for new universes, that's what happened in the flash good job john, dave, rose and jade, good job
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Apr 13, 2016 11:50
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Slime posted:not so fan theory: lord english was skaia's garbage collector, and without him paradox space will experience a memory leak and crash when there's no more memory for new universes, that's what happened in the flash It's a shame that Lord English is actually the combination of a clown, a pair of glasses, a circus strongman, and a rude alien child.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:59
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Half an alien clown, actually. Let's not give him more credit than he deserves.
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Apr 13, 2016 12:03
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