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Evil Fluffy posted:Can't wait to see the DPS from a BLU whose deck consists of Bahamut, Midgardsormyr, Odin, Louisoix, and I want to replace my AST's Spire card with Godbert.
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Apr 13, 2016 22:27
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Evil Fluffy posted:
Well yeah, I can basically sleepwalk through content as a DPS unless it's progression raiding. In under 50 content I'm pretty sure I have literally sleepwalked through content as a DPS.
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Apr 13, 2016 22:29
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FaintlyQuaint posted:I hope this never happens because evasion tanks are poo poo. I'm sure every healer would just love to take care of a tank that either takes no damage or half of their health on every single hit.
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Apr 13, 2016 22:34
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm sure every healer would just love to take care of a tank that either takes no damage or half of their health on every single hit. Also a joy to try to balance content around.
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Apr 13, 2016 22:39
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The Grimace posted:I think SE learned their lesson about evasion tanks after the eventual revelation FFXI's playerbase had with Ninja tanks. They did everything they could to ensure the playerbase that Ninja in XIV would not be a viable tank as a result. They've already been stepping away from evasion tanking by nerfing Manawall and adjusting Nin's Shadow Shift. It's not going to happen and it's detriments far outweigh how interesting it would be. The best indication (sans ACT) for how well you're doing as DPS is how long stuff takes to die. Pretty much every dungeon should take an average of 30 mins with everyone pulling their weight. If it takes less then you're doing awesome. If it takes more then you've wiped/someone's not pulling their weight (this can include honest healers though that's more true at level cap than leveling.)
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Apr 13, 2016 22:54
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I do secretly hope that BST eventually comes into FFXIV somehow, but until then I'm happy to stick with SMN when I need a pet fix. BST would be the perfect opportunity to revamp and flesh out the Companion system which is just hardcoded for chocobros right now. Of course, I can always just resub to FFXI for a bit if I really want to steamroll poo poo with my own NPC army.  The Grimace posted:I think SE learned their lesson about evasion tanks after the eventual revelation FFXI's playerbase had with Ninja tanks. They did everything they could to ensure the playerbase that Ninja in XIV would not be a viable tank as a result. I don't think evasion taking would work in FFXIV considering how the engine is very much built around the "holy trinity" metagame. In this game, tanks have high HP and mitigate damage, full stop. I would rather they work on adding more content and new jobs for additional Final Fantasy flavor.
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Apr 13, 2016 22:59
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Evil Fluffy posted:Still hoping Samurai ends up being a FFT-based class. Heavy armor DPS with int as their primary stat and their abilities are the various Draw skills. I would love for this to happen.
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Apr 13, 2016 23:06
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You sorta have to design content around evasion tanks existing, but it's not impossible to do. You'd need all the tankbusters to work like Holy Bladedance, is most of it.
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Apr 13, 2016 23:06
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Ideas for new classes are like assholes: everyone has one, and they all stink. Keep trying though guys, I'm sure Yoshi P will read your posts and take your brilliant ideas into consideration.
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Apr 13, 2016 23:36
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^^: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/rock_band.png The Echo: Buff active up to 1 min, 150s cooldown. Take only 25% damage from the next attack that would deal at least 50% of your current HP There, tweak that skill around a bit and tankbusters are solved Sentient Data fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Apr 13, 2016 |
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Apr 13, 2016 23:41
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That's just a convoluted way of saying "you only take 25% damage from the next attack". What would the point of an evasion tank be if they just have an insanely powerful mitigation cooldown like that? And tank busters aren't the only problem, you still have to deal with basic attacks either causing zero or a lot of damage, which would make healing a nightmare like I already said.
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Apr 14, 2016 00:34
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And if it's not a healing nightmare because they have the requisite HP to take some hits, then they're really no different than the other tanks. Having a tank with a lot of reactionary abilities (Riposte, Haymaker) and having the reaction be a way to speed up/empower their use would be an interesting take on it.
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Apr 14, 2016 00:42
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Apr 14, 2016 01:23
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I bet everyone gets a collective laugh when they go linkdead and start disconnecting.
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Apr 14, 2016 01:28
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm sure every healer would just love to take care of a tank that either takes no damage or half of their health on every single hit. The Honest Healers would love it, because they'd only be able to babysit the tank, and would not be able to do something else. 
HackensackBackpack fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 01:30
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Evasion tanks are always either garbage or completely overpowered except in games that are way more action-heavy than FFXIV will ever be. If they have half a brain they will never have an evasion tank.
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Apr 14, 2016 01:50
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Truga posted:I have ACT in working order and will run it if you ask me. I normally don't use it though because clicking on an icon is Which goon mate are you? I'll ask and we can post it here so people can
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Apr 14, 2016 01:54
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, and it just gets me depressed because I'm a bad
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Some days it's hard to be a moody edgelord.    X
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Apr 14, 2016 02:38
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ok I'm starting to fill out my Scholar gear with pre-Savage BiS and pondering the question of what materia to put in it. I saw lots of theorycrafting about putting accuracy in but I feel like on the fights where materia will actually make a difference I don't have the mana to spend DPSing. So I was thinking of building Mind instead. But then I thought maybe Energy Drain can miss and not give any mana back, so maybe Accuracy is technically a mana stat for me? Please advise.
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Apr 14, 2016 03:01
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Clairetic posted:ok I'm starting to fill out my Scholar gear with pre-Savage BiS and pondering the question of what materia to put in it. I saw lots of theorycrafting about putting accuracy in but I feel like on the fights where materia will actually make a difference I don't have the mana to spend DPSing. So I was thinking of building Mind instead. But then I thought maybe Energy Drain can miss and not give any mana back, so maybe Accuracy is technically a mana stat for me? Accuracy. DPS matters in every single fight in the game. Just because there aren't any enrage checks to make doesn't mean people want to hang out in Antitower for 40 minutes.
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Apr 14, 2016 03:03
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Fister Roboto posted:That's just a convoluted way of saying "you only take 25% damage from the next attack". What would the point of an evasion tank be if they just have an insanely powerful mitigation cooldown like that? And tank busters aren't the only problem, you still have to deal with basic attacks either causing zero or a lot of damage, which would make healing a nightmare like I already said. SWTOR had a tank (assassin/shadow) that was based on "evasion" (really shield iirc?) and at one point in the hardest raid tier they were impossible to use because it was a literal coin flip to see if they survived a mechanic. The next expansion they homogenized the tanks by giving them all the same armor stats in tank stance so they wouldn't have to balance it anymore.
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Apr 14, 2016 03:28
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Klades posted:Evasion tanks are always either garbage or completely overpowered except in games that are way more action-heavy than FFXIV will ever be. If they have half a brain they will never have an evasion tank. Yeah, I understand that on the face of it, the gimmick is definitely iffy, and up to the RNG more than player skill. Perhaps "evasion" is the wrong way to phrase it. A theoretical Dancer tank doesn't need to rely solely on dodges to survive, so long as it feels like it. This is just my stinky rear end in a top hat talking, to turn a phrase, but I like the idea of a dancer commanding the attention of the room, which is the tank's job, so I thought that some kind of mechanic to make them tanks would be a fun way to spin the job. Take the other tanks in this game: They play differently, but are still pretty similar in that they have ways to mitigate damage, or survive bigger hits. Warriors and Dark Knights do not use shields, and they're able to tank just fine, and Paladins do not rely solely on the board half of their sword/board combo. A lot of the difference is aesthetic, in that regard. At the bleeding edge of end-game there may be appreciable differences between the three that make one favourable over the others for certain content, but the vast majority of the game's dungeons can be easily and effectively tanked by any one of the three tanking jobs. A dancer tank would probably play the same way, but would stylistically and aesthetically appear to be more nimble and evasive than a Paladin or Warrior might be. Mechanically, the numbers behind how they take damage would be similar to how Warriors and Dark Knights do it, but their animations, skills, and cooldowns would be built around the illusion of doing the foxtrot around your enemies. I haven't played WoW in a long time, so I'm not sure how they do Brewmasters in current content, but there's an example of a light-armored tank that relies on shields and absorbs and is still able to cover the bases in the game's content. Surely something similar could be developed. Obviously, I'm not a game designer. This is just a silly fantasy discussion about a hypothetical idea.
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Apr 14, 2016 04:02
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Apologies if this has been asked a thousand times (I may have even been one of those thousand and just forgotten) but are the duty roulettes worth it for leveling past 50+ or are you better off just grinding out HW dungeons at that point? In other words, if I'm leveling a DPS and only have time for two dungeons, will I get more XP from running LDR and 50DR, or from running two Sohm Als?
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Apr 14, 2016 04:25
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They're very worth it at 50-55, then by then the bonus starts being less than spectacular iirc. However, lvl50 roulette is easily sub 15 minutes generally and a fast queue.
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Apr 14, 2016 04:27
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I don't think that a pure evasion tank would work for the reasons that have been outlined, you could probably find some way to do something kind of thematic with a theoretical Dancer tank. Maybe give them a huge MP pool, lesser HP, and have some sort of tanking dance that redirects a portion of damage taken into the MP pool instead. Give them ways to refill their mana (cooldowns, combo finishers, whatever) that would require active effort by the tank to keep that aspect of their defense up and running. Healers would have less of the typical evasion tank problem with their tank missing a dodge and just flat out exploding or losing most of their life, but might have to approach healing that tank differently if they have to fail back to keeping a tank up with a comparatively small HP total. They've already hit a few sides of the tank self-sustainability design with what they have right now, but you could experiment with the design space outside direct health leeching or self-cast healing spells.
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Apr 14, 2016 04:48
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Bring back XI PLDs subbing WHM and keeping hate by constantly casting Cure on themselves.
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Apr 14, 2016 05:43
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In my experience recently, if you do 50, leveling, and trial roulettes, plus Vanu and Vath dailies, you'll get a little under a level per day.
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Apr 14, 2016 05:43
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I would recommend against doing 50 or main story roulette on AST as you level it. It feels so bad to finally have AoE that isn't blizzard II and then have that ripped away from you in AoE-heavy contexts.
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Apr 14, 2016 05:46
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As an AST main, OH GOD YES. It even feels bad to have Malefic II taken away from you. And Time Dilation. And Collective Unconscious. and Celestial Opposition. Pretty much all the buttons that makes AST a hoot to play.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:10
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:I would recommend against doing 50 or main story roulette on AST as you level it. It feels so bad to finally have AoE that isn't blizzard II and then have that ripped away from you in AoE-heavy contexts. That's how I feel as a nin whenever I get synched out of Armor Crush. I quickly forgot how awful it is to reapply Huton.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:12
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Ainsley McTree posted:Apologies if this has been asked a thousand times (I may have even been one of those thousand and just forgotten) but are the duty roulettes worth it for leveling past 50+ or are you better off just grinding out HW dungeons at that point? Since they added experience rewards from enemies in the 50 Roulette, it's very much worth it.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:27
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Also bear in mind that, unless you need the currency at 60, Trials Roulette is generally quite fast and gives a nice chunk of XP.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:29
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Even Steps of Faith. Got that recently, and we had one dumbass throw a poo poo-fit and bail on it before the barrier even went down. Replacement joined, and we won effortlessly just after the first dragonkiller. Newbie bonus too. There should really be a PSA that it's not too bad of a trial to get any more. (I see that occasionally with Ultros/Typhon too, even though if the sneeze mechanic gets hosed up you can ignore it just by standing dead center of the platform and you won't be knocked off, so the fight will continue.)
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Apr 14, 2016 06:46
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So uh, remember how everyone bitched about how lame the slyph stealth quests were? The rank 3 one (Mist Opportunities) seems to be easily cheesed. As soon as you talk to the one that turns you invisible, just turn it off (right clicking it) and then get on a mount and run to the spots you need to go to. Makes that quest a real breeze.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:49
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At 58 I got 550K XP for finishing up a LLDR. I'm sure I'll find the right crafting collectible once i'm actually 60 but least while leveling thank gently caress they put in "make a lumber/ingot/whatever" at 56 because gently caress everything else I can spam those with a macro straight to 60 with very little cost to myself. Meanwhile the actual items given more but take just as much material as busting out 6 whatever while i'm barely paying attention.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:53
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Roulettes are great. When I was leveling PLD from 50-60, Main Scenario Roulette always gave atleast 1/3rd of the level for how simple it is. Big time saver.SonicRulez posted:That's how I feel as a nin whenever I get synched out of Armor Crush. I quickly forgot how awful it is to reapply Huton. God, I agree with this. Armor Crush is definitely the best thing Ninja gets in HW. I'm sure some tanks love when I use Shadewalker, but god drat if I can't live without Armor Crush now.
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Apr 14, 2016 06:57
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I feel like the 55-57 grind is the worst, just because exp required really inflates and you get really sick of running the Aery a million times. At least the Vault is considerably less painful in comparison.
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Apr 14, 2016 07:25
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ApplesandOranges posted:I feel like the 55-57 grind is the worst, just because exp required really inflates and you get really sick of running the Aery a million times. At least the Vault is considerably less painful in comparison. The last boss of Vault with a bad healer can be pretty terrible.
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Apr 14, 2016 07:31
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The other problem with DEX tanks or INT tanks that people keep suggesting is that they'd have to make an entirely new class of armor just for them, or do something stupid and clunky like what they did for ninjas. Remember that? Remember how all monk gear in 2.4 had DEX added to it? They had to do that because ninjas had to use DEX as their mainstat, and the reason for that was......?
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Apr 14, 2016 07:45
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The Grimace posted:Roulettes are great. When I was leveling PLD from 50-60, Main Scenario Roulette always gave atleast 1/3rd of the level for how simple it is. Big time saver. I feel kind of similarly about Iron Jaws. It's not quite as essential but I really miss it when I don't have it. The absolute worst is when you get synced to Sohm Al, and you're high enough to have Wanderer's Minuet and not Iron Jaws.
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