UKMT April 2016: David Cameron's P19 Form

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT April 2016: David Cameron's P19 Form

Phoon: Apr 23, 2010

it would be nice if they all stopped fighting and went away, except the fascists aren't going away and the antifascists are a reaction to the fascists

# ? Apr 14, 2016 11:45

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 22:10

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Tesseraction posted:

The threat of violence only holds if violence realistically would be carried out. With a threat you tell someone to be scared for their safety, or you follow through with it and remove their safety. There is no other way to perform this. You are either performing psychological or physical violence.

I'll take psychological over physical, thanks. Fascism is based on strength through unity and appeals to people who hate but don't have the spine to do so without mob-handed support. Making them feel weak and alone is enough to curb them and you can achieve that readily with the threat alone. Of course the threat can't be hollow, but I've never said it should be - just that violence isn't where you start.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 11:46

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

MrL_JaKiri posted:

This, but the whole population of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

You'd love that wouldn't you. Seeing all the plebs drown while you, Tarquin and Monty look on, laughing and drinking Pimms from the comfort and safety of your rowing boat.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 11:46

HorseLord: Aug 26, 2014

Jedit posted:

I'll take psychological over physical, thanks. Fascism is based on strength through unity and appeals to people who hate but don't have the spine to do so without mob-handed support. Making them feel weak and alone is enough to curb them and you can achieve that readily with the threat alone. Of course the threat can't be hollow, but I've never said it should be - just that violence isn't where you start.

All you're doing at this point is putting out posts that sound contrarian but actually don't mean a loving thing.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 11:49

breadshaped: Apr 1, 2010; Soiled Meat

Fascists are usually working-class folks who are acting out at perceived affronts to their advancement and happiness in life. I wouldn't want to kick someone in the head for being ignorant or stupid. Especially since that person is someone who this thread claims to want to protect and elevate.

You'd have to be seriously stupid if you went to a protest rally to seek out violence.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 11:59

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

Pissflaps posted:

If you could all slowly walk in to the sea I think everybody else would be grateful.

Open air swimming in the sea is quite the refreshing pass time.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:00

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

HorseLord posted:

All you're doing at this point is putting out posts that sound contrarian but actually don't mean a loving thing.

Says the President and sole member of the UKMT Stalin Fan Club.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:03

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Fascists should be afraid.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:04

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Bedshaped posted:

You'd have to be seriously stupid if you went to a protest rally to seek out violence.

Which is exactly what fascists do, and if they don't find it in antifa they will find it in the local community.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:08

Strom Cuzewon: Jul 1, 2010

Pissflaps posted:

You'd love that wouldn't you. Seeing all the plebs drown while you, Tarquin and Monty look on, laughing and drinking Pimms from the comfort and safety of your rowing boat.

After Cambridge 's performance this year they might struggle with the whole " not drowning" thing.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:14

Fans: Jun 27, 2013; A reptile dysfunction

In a desperate bid to talk about literally anything it turns out someone from the TaxPayers' Alliance is on Question Time tonight guaranteeing we hear a lot more about Panama, Double Taxation and Inheritance Tax :qq:

I hope Goons are in agreement that the TaxPayers' Alliance can gently caress right off.

Also expect a phenomenal amount of crying about EU leaflets, the most exciting of all topics.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:17

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Gonzo McFee posted:

Fascists should be afraid.

I agree.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:19

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Jedit posted:

I'll take psychological over physical, thanks. Fascism is based on strength through unity and appeals to people who hate but don't have the spine to do so without mob-handed support. Making them feel weak and alone is enough to curb them and you can achieve that readily with the threat alone. Of course the threat can't be hollow, but I've never said it should be - just that violence isn't where you start.

Which is fair, but generally the antifa do not strike first. It's not quite as *bursts thru the wall waving chainsaw and screaming* as you're assuming it is.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:26

Blacknose: Jul 28, 2006; Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried

Bedshaped posted:

Fascists are usually working-class folks who are acting out at perceived affronts to their advancement and happiness in life. I wouldn't want to kick someone in the head for being ignorant or stupid. Especially since that person is someone who this thread claims to want to protect and elevate.

You'd have to be seriously stupid if you went to a protest rally to seek out violence.

*defends literal fascists flying swastika flags*

dumbarse

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:29

MikeCrotch: Nov 5, 2011; I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

Blacknose posted:

*defends literal fascists flying swastika flags*

dumbarse

but but but HOW DARE YOU BE INTOLERANT OF MY INTOLERANCE

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:31

Fans: Jun 27, 2013; A reptile dysfunction

I'm fine with them flying Swastika flags. They say not to judge a book by it's cover but if someone's flying a swastika flag they're probably not going to get even handed press coverage.

If only all racists could be so nakedly honest about their intentions we'd have a lot less problems.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:36

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Tesseraction posted:

Which is fair, but generally the antifa do not strike first. It's not quite as *bursts thru the wall waving chainsaw and screaming* as you're assuming it is.

The only thing I'm assuming is that Uberfuckwit is telling the truth. Being as how he has literally said that the fash can't fight back.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:51

breadshaped: Apr 1, 2010; Soiled Meat

Blacknose posted:

*defends literal fascists flying swastika flags*

dumbarse

Kicking people's teeth in; the political discourse of the 21st century Briton.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:52

Serotonin: Jul 14, 2001; The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of *blank*

Fans posted:

I'm fine with them flying Swastika flags. They say not to judge a book by it's cover but if someone's flying a swastika flag they're probably not going to get even handed press coverage.

If only all racists could be so nakedly honest about their intentions we'd have a lot less problems.

Agreed. It make it easier to know who to bash.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:53

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Fans posted:

I'm fine with them flying Swastika flags. They say not to judge a book by it's cover but if someone's flying a swastika flag they're probably not going to get even handed press coverage.

If only all racists could be so nakedly honest about their intentions we'd have a lot less problems.

The best thing is how the far right in Europe cycle through flegs in order that nobody might actually think they're the far right in Europe, while screaming about cultural genocide:

Ofaloaf posted:

It just seems like the German far right rallies around a symbol up until the moment it's solidly associated with the German far right, at which point they go "That thing? No, that thing doesn't represent us" and then they move on to the next flag.

Eventually they're going to have to resort to some really weird choices. I'm looking forward to the far right rallies in ten years time where they're all waving the flag of the East German Postal Service.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:54

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

Bedshaped posted:

Fascists are usually working-class folks who are acting out at perceived affronts to their advancement and happiness in life.

Uh huh.

Bedshaped posted:

I wouldn't want to kick someone in the head for being ignorant or stupid.

Right. Especially if they are made out of straw. Would feel strange.

Bedshaped posted:

Especially since that person is someone who this thread claims to want to protect and elevate.

I'm gonna need a source on this thread wanting to protect and elevate fash. And a quiet lay down with a valium.

Bedshaped posted:

You'd have to be seriously stupid if you went to a protest rally to seek out violence.

Why? Plenty of it around at such events, especially if the police show up, almost as good a place as the high street on a saturday night in *insert your home town here*.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:54

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Pissflaps posted:

You'd love that wouldn't you. Seeing all the plebs drown while you, Tarquin and Monty look on, laughing and drinking Pimms from the comfort and safety of your rowing boat.

Rowing boats aren't safe in coastal waters, Pissflaps, as demonstrated by the women of CUWBC in the recent Boat Races.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 12:56

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Rowing boats aren't safe in coastal waters, Pissflaps, as demonstrated by the women of CUWBC in the recent Boat Races.

You'll be safely stowed away on Tarquin's daddy's yacht in time for tiffin.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:02

breadshaped: Apr 1, 2010; Soiled Meat

DesperateDan posted:

I'm gonna need a source on this thread wanting to protect and elevate fash. And a quiet lay down with a valium.

Fash protestors are poor people.

quote:

Why? Plenty of it around at such events, especially if the police show up, almost as good a place as the high street on a saturday night in *insert your home town here*.

Because it's not right.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:04

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

Jedit posted:

I'll take psychological over physical, thanks. Fascism is based on strength through unity and appeals to people who hate but don't have the spine to do so without mob-handed support. Making them feel weak and alone is enough to curb them and you can achieve that readily with the threat alone. Of course the threat can't be hollow, but I've never said it should be - just that violence isn't where you start.

Alright, so you turn up and psychologically threaten a bunch of fash. What do you do when someone doesn't fall for it? Run away, leaving the whole mob free to beat up anyone they feel like? Or do you actually at that point have to start kicking in a head?

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:05

curse of flubber: Mar 12, 2007; I CAN'T HELP BUT DERAIL THREADS WITH MY VERY PRESENCE

I ALSO HAVE A CLOUD OF DEDICATED IDIOTS FOLLOWING ME SHITTING UP EVERY THREAD I POST IN

IGNORE ME AND ANY DINOSAUR THAT FIGHTS WITH ME BECAUSE WE JUST CAN'T SHUT UP

Blacknose posted:

*defends literal fascists flying swastika flags*

dumbarse

American internet and media has corrupted me to think "dumbarse" looks weird, it even has a red squiggly line below it.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:06

breadshaped: Apr 1, 2010; Soiled Meat

Dabir posted:

Alright, so you turn up and psychologically threaten a bunch of fash. What do you do when someone doesn't fall for it? Run away, leaving the whole mob free to beat up anyone they feel like? Or do you actually at that point have to start kicking in a head?

Is this a situation where the police are on their coffee break?

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:07

Hoops: Aug 19, 2005; A Black Mark For Retarded Posting

I think I've changed tack in the last year or so and now reckon I'm pretty much fine with people bashing the fash. As long as it's away from kids or whatever.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:07

Extreme0: Feb 28, 2013; I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!

Bedshaped posted:

I wouldn't want to kick someone in the head for being ignorant or stupid.

On the contrary, ignorance and stupidity is what helps people who can control the masses through fear and hate to get the reaction they want which can make progress in society come to a slow pace. There is so many times that I can explain things to people in the most simplist of terms before I get frustrated that tricking and using force seems like the best answer to get a message across through boneheads who refuse to accept the truth out of denial/stubborness.

Besides beating up fascists is the best way to showcase what true fascist behavior on them is. Nothing like Irony and the sweet smell of blood spilt on the pavement.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:08

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Pissflaps posted:

You'll be safely stowed away on Tarquin's daddy's yacht in time for tiffin.

The only person I know called Tarquin isn't from a wealthy background and while he does have a boat (he runs a cruise boat thing called Georgina on the Cam) it certainly isn't seaworthy. Not a massive fan of tiffin because I'm intolerant to chocolate.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:09

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

The DWP is sanctioning in-work people for taking a holiday or being late for a job centre appointment because they were at work.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/14/dwp-punishing-low-paid-full-time-workers-under-new-benefits-rule

quote:

Fines imposed on full-time workers who claim universal credit amount to �punishing the working poor�, experts have suggested, as it emerged one woman was docked �220 for missing a jobcentre appointment because she took a family holiday.

The fines, part of a little-known �in-work conditionality� programme introduced by the ex-work and pensions secretary Iain Duncan Smith have been called �political dynamite� by academics, who warn that it may undermine unemployed people taking low-paid jobs.

The Guardian has learned of a case where a single parent was fined after she took a holiday in Spain booked before she was moved onto universal credit in 2015. Although she says she explained to officials why she could not make the meeting, the fine was still imposed.

Helen Smith, 36, of Widnes, who says she regularly works 30-40 hours a week as a bar worker on a zero-hours contract, said that when she appealed against the fine she was told by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) that being on holiday was not a valid reason not to look for work.

Smith, who says she has been in almost continuous employment since she left school, said: �Because I was working I just didn�t understand why I was sanctioned.�

Ministers have been widely criticised for imposing strict sanctions on people claiming unemployment benefit, dishing out millions of often arbitrary financial penalties in recent years for apparent breaches of jobcentre rules, despite there being no clear evidence that the fines helped those affected to get a job.

Now similar penalties are being extended to thousands of workers in receipt of universal credit (UC). They are expected to prove, as a condition of receiving low wage top-ups, that they are actively seeking to work more hours or take on extra jobs to earn more cash.

However, experts have warned that the initiative risks blurring the government�s attempt to draw a clear political dividing line between so-called �hard-working families� and those caricatured as out-of-work �scroungers� because it extends the negative connotations of welfare dependency to those who have a job.

Prof Peter Dwyer of the University of York, who is involved in a major five-year Economic and Social Research Council-funded study of benefits conditionality, said: �[This] is political dynamite. Does the government want to be associated with punishing the working poor? When this happened with tax credits they were forced to take a step back.�

In-work conditionality means claimants who are working up to 35 hours a week � and who may never have been on the dole in their life � are forced to attend jobcentre interviews on a weekly or fortnightly basis. They must also spend several hours a week applying for second jobs online, or face financial penalties.

The idea behind so-called in-work progression � the most ambitious scheme of its kind in the world but as yet untested � is that by providing coaching and support low-paid workers can be helped to find more or better paid work, so making them less reliant on wage top-ups.

However, anecdotal evidence is emerging from trials of the scheme that working claimants are angry at being subjected to tight jobcentre surveillance and sanctions. Some question the value of the job support provided and say sanctions are unfair because they have proved they are already motivated enough to work.

By May, in-work conditionality will have been imposed on 15,000 low-paid workers in a handful of trial areas across the UK. An evaluation of the trials is due in 2018. If UC rolls out as planned it is expected that around 1 million workers, many of them currently on tax credits, will be covered by the new regime by 2020.

Dwyer said if UC stays on schedule, hundreds of thousands of working people currently in receipt of tax credits, including up to 200,000 lone parents, could find themselves moved onto a regime of jobcentre interviews, job searches and sanctions currently faced only by those drawing the dole.

His research showed that although some working UC claimants supported conditionality in principle, many found the reality unrealistic and degrading. �The tone of many responses was: �Why am I being cajoled into searching for a job when I have got a job?� One respondent had two jobs and was being told to look for extra work.�

In another case, a UC claimant said he was fined �70 after his work shift meant he arrived late at a jobcentre appointment. Another in-work UC claimant reported that he faced eviction after unpredictable working hours meant he incurred multiple sanctions for missing appointments.

Even work won't set you free from the DWP.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:11

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

MrL_JaKiri posted:

The only person I know called Tarquin isn't from a wealthy background and while he does have a boat (he runs a cruise boat thing called Georgina on the Cam) it certainly isn't seaworthy. Not a massive fan of tiffin because I'm intolerant to chocolate.

To be clear: you're admitting to knowing a Tarquin who owns a pleasure boat?

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:12

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Bedshaped posted:

Is this a situation where the police are on their coffee break?

It could be a situation where they have broken police lines and are actively looking for targets, as often happens at protests with or without an antifa presence.

What do you do at the point where fascists have broken police lines and are looking for local people to attack? Just shrug and say "well, things happen, the police can clear it up later, I'm not responsible for my community, besides all acts of violence are between individuals anyway"?

e: ^^ I know a Tarka who is a good swimmer.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:14

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

dispatch_async posted:

The DWP is sanctioning in-work people for taking a holiday or being late for a job centre appointment because they were at work.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/14/dwp-punishing-low-paid-full-time-workers-under-new-benefits-rule

Even work won't set you free from the DWP.

The only thing that will set us free from the DWP is death unfortunately.

Also, Jeremy Corbyn has proposed an EU-wide minimum wage. Which seems sort of obvious & I'm surprised I've never heard it discussed before.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:15

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

forkboy84 posted:

The only thing that will set us free from the DWP is death unfortunately.

Also, Jeremy Corbyn has proposed an EU-wide minimum wage. Which seems sort of obvious & I'm surprised I've never heard it discussed before.

the political mainstream of europe aren't so much consistently ultra-right wing as they are consistently ultra-loving stupid and thus ideas like minimum wage for an economic union just fly them by

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:19

HorseLord: Aug 26, 2014

dispatch_async posted:

The DWP is sanctioning in-work people for taking a holiday or being late for a job centre appointment because they were at work.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/14/dwp-punishing-low-paid-full-time-workers-under-new-benefits-rule

Even work won't set you free from the DWP.

About once a month I get a letter from the DWP telling me that I won't get any money this month because I've been sanctioned.

About once a month I phone the DWP and tell them to stop bothering me with sanctions because I'm not even on the dole anymore.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:19

breadshaped: Apr 1, 2010; Soiled Meat

Guavanaut posted:

It could be a situation where they have broken police lines and are actively looking for targets, as often happens at protests with or without an antifa presence.

What do you do at the point where fascists have broken police lines and are looking for local people to attack? Just shrug and say "well, things happen, the police can clear it up later, I'm not responsible for my community, besides all acts of violence are between individuals anyway"?

Self-defence is one thing but the posters above are advocating actually seeking out violence or behaving in the same violent manner that fash do.

Extreme0 posted:

Besides beating up fascists is the best way to showcase what true fascist behavior on them is. Nothing like Irony and the sweet smell of blood spilt on the pavement.

Not self-defence.

Dabir posted:

Or do you actually at that point have to start kicking in a head?

Not self-defence.

DesperateDan posted:

Why? Plenty of it around at such events, especially if the police show up, almost as good a place as the high street on a saturday night in *insert your home town here*.

Not self-defence.

Serotonin posted:

Agreed. It make it easier to know who to bash.

Not self-defence.

Gonzo McFee posted:

Fascists should be afraid.

Hmm.. kind of inciting to vio-...

Gonzo McFee posted:

Fascists should be killed.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:20

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Dabir posted:

Alright, so you turn up and psychologically threaten a bunch of fash. What do you do when someone doesn't fall for it? Run away, leaving the whole mob free to beat up anyone they feel like? Or do you actually at that point have to start kicking in a head?

I think you've taken one too many blows to the head at your little jollies, or several too few. I have been consistently clear that the time for fash bashing is when they do start the aggro.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:21

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

Bedshaped posted:

Fash protestors are poor people.

So are some tories. So are some kippers. So I'm guessing that's a no, you can't back it up.

Bedshaped posted:

Because it's not right.

Oh diddums! It's WRONG to want to violently oppose fash, and we should just tut loudly from behind the pages of the graun while they deliberately seek out those who can't defend themselves!

DesperateDan posted:

You

can't

reason

with

hatred

and

calls

for

genocide

it

doesn't

loving

work

direct

action

is

a

valid

tactic

you

loving

liberals

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:22

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 22:10

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

Bedshaped posted:

Self-defence is one thing but the posters above are advocating actually seeking out violence or behaving in the same violent manner that fash do.

violence isn't what makes fash bad you absolute inbred

violence is a part of normal societal discourse and the fundamental building block of capitalism. Unrestrained violence against minorities is not bad because they are hitting them. It is bad because they are attacking minorities.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 13:22

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