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Obviously, Hitler is a much more evil person than these parents, and caused a great deal more suffering. Still, I suspect even he would have a problem with watching his own child (if he'd had one) die an agonizing, horrible death by refusing to seek medical treatment. That's how hosed up these parents are, IMO.
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Apr 14, 2016 15:57
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PT6A posted:How can you not be angry to the point of violence when you hear about parents who let their child die an agonising death through neglect? as hosed up as they are, a death penalty is always a bad precedent to set. These people deserve fines, jail time, and the loss of care of any more children they have (though they should be heavily encouraged not to), but it's always a can of worms to go death penalty. I realize you were being deliberately hyperbolic but wanting to kill someone else is always a bad place to be, on principle.
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Apr 14, 2016 15:57
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For someone who has a Metis card what does this actually mean?
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Apr 14, 2016 15:58
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:as hosed up as they are, a death penalty is always a bad precedent to set. These people deserve fines, jail time, and the loss of care of any more children they have (though they should be heavily encouraged not to), but it's always a can of worms to go death penalty. I realize you were being deliberately hyperbolic but wanting to kill someone else is always a bad place to be, on principle. I agree that, rationally, we should not have a death penalty for any reason. However, that doesn't change the fact that I still believe these parents probably deserve to die for what they did -- it's just that no one has the right or authority to kill them.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:02
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DariusLikewise posted:For someone who has a Metis card what does this actually mean? Probably something along the lines of PK loving SUBBAN posted:Liberals introduce Bill to implement recommendations of Métis commission
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Apr 14, 2016 16:02
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The larvae are emerging. Shoot me now.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:04
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PT6A posted:I agree that, rationally, we should not have a death penalty for any reason. However, that doesn't change the fact that I still believe these parents probably deserve to die for what they did -- it's just that no one has the right or authority to kill them. become a vigilante
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Apr 14, 2016 16:10
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Abusing your own children is abhorrent and worthy of the death penalty, but carpet bombing villages where children live is necessary to defeat terrorism.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:15
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I don't believe I ever called for carpet bombing, except of that one village where the leadership and the citizens said they couldn't wait for Daesh to arrive. And, yes, I think that the level of depravity required to abuse your own child to the point of death is far greater than that required to kill some random person.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:20
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A kind reminder, people like PT6A are considered liberals or progressives in Alberta.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:22
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The parents were ignorant and dumb, not malicious. The systemic embrace of alternative medicine killed the kid and that's what should be attacked; sentencing dumbass parents to death will change nothing.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:25
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cowofwar posted:The parents were ignorant and dumb, not malicious. The systemic embrace of alternative medicine killed the kid and that's what should be attacked; sentencing dumbass parents to death will change nothing. I don't think it's an either/or proposition.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:26
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PT6A posted:Obviously, Hitler is a much more evil person than these parents, and caused a great deal more suffering. Still, I suspect even he would have a problem with watching his own child (if he'd had one) die an agonizing, horrible death by refusing to seek medical treatment. That's how hosed up these parents are, IMO. Here's the real question: would you let your own child die an agonizing, horrible death to prevent the Holocaust?
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Apr 14, 2016 16:34
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Whiskey Sours posted:Here's the real question: would you let your own child die an agonizing, horrible death to prevent the Holocaust? Uh hi Canada thread
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Apr 14, 2016 16:42
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jm20 posted:A kind reminder, people like PT6A are considered liberals or progressives in Alberta. Because outside of his serious anger management problem and desire to share that with all of us at every opportunity, he's reasonably progressive. The two things are not mutually exclusive. e: also this cowofwar posted:The parents were ignorant and dumb, not malicious. The systemic embrace of alternative medicine killed the kid and that's what should be attacked; sentencing dumbass parents to death will change nothing. A normal person's reaction to something like this is sorrow.
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Apr 14, 2016 17:19
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PT6A posted:I don't think it's an either/or proposition. has any fringe extremist group ever been brought closer to the mainstream via prosecution? there's no point in punishing the parents. they won't learn anything and you'll just provide martyrs for the cause, pushing their community further away harming more children. the solution is education
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Apr 14, 2016 17:20
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the talent deficit posted:has any fringe extremist group ever been brought closer to the mainstream via prosecution? Anti-vaccers maybe? http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/up-to-1800-ottawa-students-suspended-because-immunization-records-not-up-to-date
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Apr 14, 2016 17:32
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PT6A posted:How can you not be angry to the point of violence when you hear about parents who let their child die an agonising death through neglect? Adolf Hitler killed his own beloved dog to test if the suicide pills his doctor gave him would work, then he had all of her puppies killed too, which made the goebbles children very sad.
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Apr 14, 2016 17:34
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Constant Hamprince posted:Uh hi Canada thread Right?
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Apr 14, 2016 17:36
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Cultural Imperial posted:will you dumb assholes stop arguing with the rodeo enthusiast, v6 mustang driving, cerebral palsy gimp who's only cogent argument against neheed nenshi is he walks funny this should be quoted every time pt6a tries to act like a tough guy
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Apr 14, 2016 17:41
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The conflict over the Leap Manifesto is interesting to me because it mirrors a split in the environmental movement that has been playing out over the last few decades. One on hand, you have the productivists and ecological modernisers who think that economic growth and environmental protection go hand in hand. The idea is that innovation (both technological and policy) will allow us to decouple economic growth from environmental damage. Of course, all this innovation is directed through private markets and so is not a threat to capitalism as a whole, but only to certain sectors. And in the long run, all sorts of new commodities are created, whether to replace existing commodities (fossil fuels giving way to renewable energy) or to create whole new markets (carbon credits, ecosystem service markets). Environmentalism is seen as an economic opportunity, a new realm for profit making. And of course this is the view adopted by the World Bank, UNEP, various national governments, most environmental organizations etc etc. On the other hand you have the degrowth crew, ecological economists and the eco-marxists who see a socio-economic problem rather than an innovation problem. It doesn't matter what sort of innovations occur as long as we have an economic system based on increasing production and consumption, forever. Besides, our political economic system determines what sort of innovations are pursued, and the primary motive is profit. This is why we see things like GMOs that reinforce industrial agriculture, bio-fuels that return less energy than is invested in producing them, carbon markets that encourage monocropping forests, and eco-tourism reserves that privilege wealthy foreigners while preventing local and indingenous groups from using landscapes that have sustained them for thousands of years. The key pivot point between these two world views is the issue of decoupling (of course there are also differences over social, environmental and economic justice). Emissions decoupling is the most widely talked about, but if the first view is to be correct than we also must decouple economic growth from pollution, land use and deterioration, water use and deterioration, material use etc etc. The conflict in the NDP is slightly different, because it is primarily concerned with the well-being of labour, rather than the role of capitalism. There are those concerned with the livelihoods of workers, wages, unemployment levels, which are important issues. But in order to address those issues they must in effect support the ecological modernisers. Of course they may see new industries being publicly or cooperatively owned, but growth must continue. We must continue to produce and consume in order to keep people employed. In looking at the Leap Manifesto, I hope the NDP studies the issue of decoupling thoroughly, because I think that is key to any discussion on the interactions between the environment and the economy. If the NDP does begin to adopt policy from the Leap Manifesto, I will be interested to see how they deal with the unemployed workers left by the fossil fuel industry. Will it be a productivist path (we must continue to produce and consume, but we need to produce and consume the 'right' things so workers can still work eg. solar panels, electric cars, recycled paper) or a degrowth path (we need to stop production and consumption, cut hours for everyone and perform a massive distribution of existing wealth).
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Apr 14, 2016 17:46
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the talent deficit posted:has any fringe extremist group ever been brought closer to the mainstream via prosecution? We don't concern ourselves with this when we prosecute childfuckers and such, and their victims are at least not dead!
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Apr 14, 2016 17:49
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PT6A posted:We don't concern ourselves with this when we prosecute childfuckers and such, and their victims are at least not dead!
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Apr 14, 2016 18:10
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NL budget time! https://twitter.com/CochraneCBC/status/720649825138647040 Reaction by former ruling party! (and expected response) https://twitter.com/PCoppositionNL/status/720655036540395520?s=09
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Apr 14, 2016 18:10
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cowofwar posted:Ugh, the justice system and laws exist for the benefit of society, not the individual. Indeed. I think society would be well-served by removing these morons and people who would behave similarly from it.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:12
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El Scotch posted:Reaction by former ruling party! (and expected response) A brave stand against austerity by the Progressive Conservative party.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:14
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PT6A posted:Indeed. I think society would be well-served by removing these morons and people who would behave similarly from it. Elimination of a socially detrimental behavior doesn't necessitate elimination of the person. Capital punishment actually has a bad track record for shaping cultural behavior, unlike education which works much better. Need some remedial empathy training.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:24
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Duck Rodgers posted:productivists and ecological modernisers who think that economic growth and environmental protection go hand in hand. The idea is that innovation (both technological and policy) will allow us to decouple economic growth from environmental damage. Of course, all this innovation is directed through private markets and so is not a threat to capitalism as a whole, but only to certain sectors. This school of thought leads to things like auto manufacturers including ECU code to cheat emissions tests and then announcing that they've made massive breakthroughs in clean diesel technology, corporations actively suppressing knowledge of the harmful effects of their respective industries like what we're seeing with oil and companies spending tons of money on the appearance of being 'green' back in the 80s by switching away from nasty evil Styrofoam to 'environmentally sustainable' paper cups, which is a giant load of bullshit that was only done because it's easier politically to hide and tolerate the overall environmental costs production transportation and disposal of paper products than it is to insist on a society that actually properly recycles Styrofoam, which would have been overall way more environmentally friendly. Basically we stopped killing the atmosphere by not throwing Styrofoam cups in the incinerator by half assing it and switching to paper instead of just loving recycling the Styrofoam. And, poo poo, even something as simple as potato chip bags are way more harmful to the environment than they need to be because people hated the biodegradable bags because they were too loud. The free market has and will continue to choose the cheapest, most half assed route provided to them, because we let them, because our society is as greedy as it is loving retarded. Someone needs to force us to reduce the impact we have on the environment and it's at the point where it's becoming obvious it pretty much needs to be forced at gunpoint.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:25
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cowofwar posted:Elimination of a socially detrimental behavior doesn't necessitate elimination of the person. Capital punishment actually has a bad track record for shaping cultural behavior, unlike education which works much better. I have plenty of empathy, but it's for the child who was left to die by his two "parents" who were moronic sacks of poo poo in human form. Why in god's name would I feel empathy toward two people who's willful ignorance led to their child's death?
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Apr 14, 2016 18:32
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Stop, please E: content https://twitter.com/jkenney/status/720638858199756804?s=09 brucio fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 18:45
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Interesting statements by Leslie on her thoughts about the Leap Manifesto and the election. quote:Megan Leslie rules out NDP leadership bid: 'I don't want it' Her analysis is a little superficial in my opinion. The Alberta NDP mostly seems to have won by not making any mistakes and letting their two rival parties self destruct. Whether that fluke outcome is something the party should emulate as an example of "how to win" is still an open question. Further, claiming that the NDP didn't lose because of it's platform is only half the story: obviously the niqab and the "No deficits under any circumstances" pledges are a matter of policy rather than just communication, and those two events very clearly played a role in the party's collapsing support. The real question, to me, is whether there's going to be any alternative to change more than the party's current messaging. If the big takeaway from the last election is "let's hire some more former Obama organizers to teach us how to craft slightly better election slogans" then I think we'll be throwing away a huge opportunity. It'd be nice to see the relationship between rank-and-file members, the party leadership, and campaign strategy getting revamped so that the NDP operates differently than the Liberals and Tories. Though I admit that my conviction in this approach is given pause by the fact that the first grassroots document the party base has actually produced has been the Leap Manifesto.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:45
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cowofwar posted:Elimination of a socially detrimental behavior doesn't necessitate elimination of the person. Capital punishment actually has a bad track record for shaping cultural behavior, unlike education which works much better. Shorter verion of PT6A's argument. Now stop debating with someone who obviously is just getting off on the opportunity to describe their violent fantasies. Every reply is an invitation for him to derail the thread for another page.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:49
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Helsing posted:Shorter verion of PT6A's argument. My "violent fantasies"? gently caress off... If wanting bad things to happen to people who abuse and neglect children is wrong, I don't want to be right. I find it very strange how much defence there seems to be in this thread for such miserable examples of humanity as these parents. I can't read that description of what happened to that poor child without getting really, really angry at any person who would allow it to happen. I have no idea how the rest of you don't feel as angry as I do about this, but I'm pretty loving sure I'm not the broken one here. PT6A fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 18:52
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El Scotch posted:Oh man, there will be tears. Aside from the tears, I'm honestly not sure what this means. While there does seem to be a decent historical definition of Métis, I really have no idea of exactly what a non-status Indian even is. And it's also unclear to me what exactly is owed by the government to them, too. All I know today is that the obligations that are owed, are owed by the federal government. For example, if one of my ancestors was a status Indian woman, or an Indian woman who married a white man before the signing of the Treaties, would some of my ancestry then be considered Indians? And how many generations would that be transmitted through? Previously, she would have lost her status by enfranchisement through marrying a white man, and so to would have her descendants, but do obligations now exist to these people? PT6A posted:My "violent fantasies"? gently caress off... To me, anger would require intent rather than just gross negligence and misinformation. My feelings here include sorrow, pity and regret - but not necessarily anger. David Corbett fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 18:54
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Goddamn it you guys I haven't been to this thread in over 15,000 posts and you're still talking about PT6A
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Apr 14, 2016 18:59
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PT6A posted:My "violent fantasies"? gently caress off... It's not going to happen, so please stop making GBS threads up the thread with it. Thanks.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:59
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PT6A posted:I have plenty of empathy, but it's for the child who was left to die by his two "parents" who were moronic sacks of poo poo in human form. Being angry at the parents is justified but you're demanding vengeance when you would be better demanding justice. Justice would not be seeking punishment of the parents but ensuring that such an incident never happens again to another child. Punishing the parents will make you feel better but it wont accomplish the more important end goal of justice. Your feelings are fundamentally selfish because they put your demand for punishment and vengeance by the justice system above the demands that such an event never happen again.
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Apr 14, 2016 19:03
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cowofwar posted:Being angry at the parents is justified but you're demanding vengeance when you would be better demanding justice. Justice would not be seeking punishment of the parents but ensuring that such an incident never happens again to another child. Punishing the parents will make you feel better but it wont accomplish the more important end goal of justice. Your feelings are fundamentally selfish because they put your demand for punishment and vengeance by the justice system above the demands that such an event never happen again. It's not an either/or proposition. We can educate people and strengthen child protection laws in order to prevent this situation from recurring, and also punish these parents severely.
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Apr 14, 2016 19:06
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El Scotch posted:NL budget time! TAXES TAXES TAXES  Public sector is largely intact somehow. Mods? How much does it cost to probate PT6A for 2 weeks?
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Apr 14, 2016 19:08
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Twiin posted:Goddamn it you guys I haven't been to this thread in over 15,000 posts and you're still talking about PT6A Canadians like celebrities
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Apr 14, 2016 19:11
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