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Hob_Gadling posted:I think myself right wing on Finnish scale, but this is insane. Legalised slavery? What the gently caress were they thinking. The right wing doesn't actually care about the intersts of anybody except the very rich, and when they get in power they'll act accordingly. I'm sorry if this comes as a surprise to you. Puistokemisti posted:http://www.iltasanomat.fi/kotimaa/art-2000001157691.html The most amazing part is that there doesn't seem to be anything preventing a company from getting a bunch of legal slaves and when their contract is up you just kick them back kilometritehtaalle and get a bunch of new ones. This is what we call minimizing operating costs. EDIT: But hey, I'm sure that they'll build in strong safeguards against abuse. quote:Eikö tässä ole vaara, että työntekijä pelkää näiden arvioiden vaikeuttavan hänen uraansa? Eli että potentiaalinen työnantaja näkee nettipalvelusta, että työnhakija on kritisoinut edellistä työnantajaansa? Oh...
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Apr 13, 2016 12:15
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Hob_Gadling posted:I think myself right wing on Finnish scale, but this is insane. Legalised slavery? What the gently caress were they thinking. It's completely voluntary for the unemployed person
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Apr 13, 2016 12:23
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At this point why not just say "gently caress it" and make it illegal to be unemployed, like in the olden days
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Apr 13, 2016 12:29
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Cerebral Bore posted:The right wing doesn't actually care about the intersts of anybody except the very rich, and when they get in power they'll act accordingly. I'm sorry if this comes as a surprise to you. Right, but this is communism in action. If you haven't got a job, you're shown one and you better not refuse. You'd think the far left was cheering on the streets as there was no need for a revolution?
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Apr 13, 2016 12:31
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Hob_Gadling posted:Right, but this is communism in action. If you haven't got a job, you're shown one and you better not refuse. You'd think the far left was cheering on the streets as there was no need for a revolution? Are you some kind of parody account or are you the ghost of Vihtori Kosola?
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Apr 13, 2016 12:53
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are you?
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Apr 13, 2016 12:55
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Cerebral Bore posted:Are you some kind of parody account or are you the ghost of Vihtori Kosola? I'm sorry the truth hurts.
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Apr 13, 2016 12:56
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Like, I do get that being a rightwinger when our most rightwing government in living memory is loving up beyond belief is hard and that the easiest way to cope is to pretend that everything bad they do is somehow secret communism, but this is getting kinda dumb.
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Apr 13, 2016 13:01
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Cerebral Bore posted:Like, I do get that being a rightwinger when our most rightwing government in living memory is loving up beyond belief is hard and that the easiest way to cope is to pretend that everything bad they do is somehow secret communism, but this is getting kinda dumb. A rightwing solution would've been to promote zero hour contracts with the caveats that it's illegal to make contracts that: 1) forbid the worker for accepting other zero hour contracts at the same time 2)and forbid the worker from not accepting the offered day of work at penalty of terminating the contract or some other punishment. It's not that our current system couldn't get this done via unions negotiating those things. They just won't, because the only job that exists is a 9 to 5 job. Our unions aren't on the map with these, so some legislation in this regard would've been acceptable. This is just stupid. (so's SOTE, yhteiskuntasopimus and a lot of the other silly crap the government has brought forward, but this takes the cake)
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Apr 13, 2016 13:21
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The rightwing solution is what the government is proposing. More profits for corporations, gently caress you for the workers. Incidentally, the mentality that the unemployed must be put to work is a very rightwing one. In kinda-modern times it first appeared in legal form the U.K. in 1834 with the New Poor Law and the establishment of the Workhouse system. They did have the common decency to at least provide (lovely) room and board for the workers, though. But on the other hand, I suppose that Georgian England might have gone Communist before Communism was even invented.
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Apr 13, 2016 13:31
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How is the New thingy differet from työkokeilu which already exists?
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Apr 13, 2016 14:17
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doverhog posted:How is the New thingy differet from työkokeilu which already exists? It will be voluntary. Here's a thought: if you think this is slavery, or that you shouldn't have to work, just don't.
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Apr 13, 2016 14:48
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Geriatric Pirate posted:It will be voluntary. lol if you believe this
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Apr 13, 2016 15:06
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Considering how the kuntouttava työkokeilu system is widely abused, not like this will be any better.
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Apr 13, 2016 17:41
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Cerebral Bore posted:Like, I do get that being a rightwinger when our most rightwing government in living memory is loving up beyond belief is hard and that the easiest way to cope is to pretend that everything bad they do is somehow secret communism, but this is getting kinda dumb. Don't you know that EVERYTHING is the fault of redgreenleftists & ay-mafia, even if they haven't been in power in thirteen years? They're THAT good  Seriously either SDP is literally the most competent party in world history, holding the levers of power regardless of their actual vote or the right-wing needs to learn few things about personal responsibility "Hmm this guy has been loving me in the rear end for a decade, how can I stop this" "Maybe you shouldn't hire him to gently caress you in the rear end? I'm just saying you repeatedly and frequently have supported this guy's efforts to gently caress you in the rectum until it's bleeding. Just choose not to do that?" "And let the communists gently caress me in the rear end?! I don't think so buddy boy. Also the fact I am getting hosed in rear end is your fault." - the Finnish right-wing, somehow DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 06:03
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Perhaps the truth he cannot admit to himself is, he likes getting hosed in the rear end?
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Apr 14, 2016 08:31
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The problem Finnish right wingers have is that they can't be honest about what they really want. That's why Kokoomus will call itself työväen puolue, and always say whatever they are doing is to "save the welfare state". Very few people, even Kok voters, actually want to dismantle things like ansiosidonnainen or state run daycare, which clearly are leftist policies.
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Apr 14, 2016 09:13
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Apr 14, 2016 11:46
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doverhog posted:The problem Finnish right wingers have is that they can't be honest about what they really want. That's why Kokoomus will call itself työväen puolue, and always say whatever they are doing is to "save the welfare state". Very few people, even Kok voters, actually want to dismantle things like ansiosidonnainen or state run daycare, which clearly are leftist policies. How is ansiosidonnainen, which is a policy that by design gives more to the rich than the poor, a leftist policy? I mean just in principle, of course it's leftist by virtue of all the left wing parties in Finland loving it and because the unions have a monopoly over it.
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Apr 14, 2016 14:01
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It's a form of welfare, which as a concept is inherently leftist.
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Apr 14, 2016 14:08
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Geriatric Pirate posted:How is ansiosidonnainen, which is a policy that by design gives more to the rich than the poor, a leftist policy? How dare the unemployed claim to deserve food and housing?????
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Apr 14, 2016 14:20
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Here's a fun little lithmus test to see who's a political idiot and who's not. Refer to the SSS cabinet and the way they lied about stuff like education cuts and welfare cuts before the election. If someone says "well they never keep the campaign promises anyway", thats an idiot right there.
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Apr 14, 2016 15:09
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doverhog posted:It's a form of welfare, which as a concept is inherently leftist. We should combine it with a flat tax and school vouchers, both famous leftist policies.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:23
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Kemper Boyd posted:Here's a fun little lithmus test to see who's a political idiot and who's not. Considering Kepu is leading the government, that excuse isn't that far off.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:49
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Geriatric Pirate posted:We should combine it with a flat tax and school vouchers, both famous leftist policies. Are you disagreeing with ansiosidonnainen being welfare, or welfare being leftist?
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Apr 14, 2016 19:12
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doverhog posted:Are you disagreeing with ansiosidonnainen being welfare, or welfare being leftist? Ansiosidonnainen is one of the least redistributive welfare policies you can think of. By the same definition, system funded by a flat tax is a "leftist policy". And also the notion that just leftists support helping the poor (today). Geriatric Pirate fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 14, 2016 20:06
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It redistributes money from the employed to the unemployed. That is leftist. All taxation is to some degree leftist, you are right there.
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Apr 14, 2016 20:18
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doverhog posted:It redistributes money from the employed to the unemployed. That is leftist. All taxation is to some degree leftist, you are right there. lol
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Apr 15, 2016 01:37
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doverhog posted:It redistributes money from the employed to the unemployed. That is leftist. All taxation is to some degree leftist, you are right there. Are you completely nuts? Let's exempt all Virtanens from the expectation of work, and levy an additional Virtanen tax from everybody else to support them. As long as we call it welfare, this income transfer would surely be in line with leftist principles. I'm not going to write an essay about it, but ansiosidonnainen in its current state is a pretty unfair and unequal system. There has been some discussion recently about reforms and making it universal, but there are parties that benefit from keeping it in its current state. Over the years I have noticed that most people who comment ansiosidonnainen do not know, for example, a single thing about its funding model. edit: Oh yeah, I once had an argument with a person about whether or not someone who earns 4000e/mo should be expected to cut their spending more than a cleaner (1600e/mo) should in case of unemployment. This person insisted that this would be unreasonable, if not cruel, and did not hide his confusion about why I argued the opposite, since ansiosidonnainen is welfare and welfare is good. In effect, the state should chip in to cover the gas for someone's Audi. I'm not saying that this kind of thinking is common, or representative of the whole, but the person was a confessed LA voter who on another occasion once wondered out loud how someone that we both know can vote NC even though he is such a nice person. Anyway, this is what some people actually believe about welfare and income redistributions. Nothing surprises me anymore about it. For the record, I've received ansiosidonnainen twice in my life. Can recommend, you will not be in a hurry to find a new job. vuohi fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Apr 15, 2016 |
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Apr 15, 2016 10:53
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I never said the current ansiosidonnainen is a good system, it's just an example of something Kok ideologues would want to see disappear but their voters actually like.
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Apr 15, 2016 13:22
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doverhog posted:I never said the current ansiosidonnainen is a good system, it's just an example of something Kok ideologues would want to see disappear but their voters actually like. Right, so it's a system poor people should dislike, that Kok wants to change (and some greens like OS), and that the left wing parties and unions protect Welcome to Finnish politics
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Apr 15, 2016 18:43
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Geriatric Pirate posted:It's completely voluntary for the unemployed person I also have roughly zero trust that this government wouldn't consider changing it to be outright mandatory. In a way it would amount to the companies that would do this robbing both the labor of the poor and the tax money of the state. Your labor generates profit for somebody else with no compensation, while your living costs (and thus the profit of the company) is being paid for by benefits. Hob_Gadling posted:Right, but this is communism in action. If you haven't got a job, you're shown one and you better not refuse. You'd think the far left was cheering on the streets as there was no need for a revolution?
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Apr 15, 2016 23:06
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Do any of you guys know how to get your boat to have an "EU-merkintä?" or such  A friend, an enterpreneur, owns a boat and figured he could use it for "kilpapurjehdus" school. After getting a licence (boat operator or whatever) and making all the calculations, also getting a backup instructor who can handle the students if he gets sick or otherwise can't make it, he was all setup for a new business that would net him a few thousand € a year. Alas, last week someone from Trafi called him and asked if the boat was "EU-marked". The boat is absolutely seaworthy and there is no issue with safety and he knows what he does. I hear boats built after 2010 automagically receive this magic sign. Unfortunately, his boat is built in the 70s and nobody knows how to get the "EU-merkintä" for privately owned sailing vehicles that old. So the guy from Trafi told him to gently caress off and not to start up his business because it would be illegal. Suomi nousuun. Voin vannoa, että Saksassa tai Espanjassa tai Portugalissa tai jossain ei ole mitään Trafia joka määrää, että et saa käyttää purjehduspaattiasi purjehduskouluun, ja jos onkin, niin tuolla enemmän etelässä parin satkun "palkkio" paperityöstä kuittaa nämä ongelmat.
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Apr 16, 2016 11:52
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Ligur posted:Do any of you guys know how to get your boat to have an "EU-merkintä?" or such mitäs jos se sun kaverisi aloittaisi vaikka kysymällä trafista miten sellaisen saa
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Apr 16, 2016 11:54
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Hogge Wild posted:mitäs jos se sun kaverisi aloittaisi vaikka kysymällä trafista miten sellaisen saa Ei ne tiedä, siltä virkailijalta kysyi eikä se ainakaan tiennyt. Ne vaan sanoi, että et saa käyttää sitä venettä tuollaiseen tarkoitukseen. Ehkä nyt meni vähän pointti ohi.
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Apr 16, 2016 11:56
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Ligur posted:Ei ne tiedä, siltä virkailijalta kysyi eikä se ainakaan tiennyt. Ne vaan sanoi, että et saa käyttää sitä venettä tuollaiseen tarkoitukseen. sano että se pyytää sen kirjallisena
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Apr 16, 2016 12:02
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Kaiverra "EU" veneen kylkeen, täytä se verellä ja sitten sano kolme kertaa "äs äs äs". Tämä johtaa siihen, että maan syövereistä nousee esiin Hallitus, joka täyttää kutsujalleen yhden toiveen. Mutta varo! hinta on kova, kaverisi joutuu äänestämään loppuikänsä Keskustaa.
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Apr 16, 2016 12:06
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Hogge Wild posted:sano että se pyytää sen kirjallisena Sellaisen se ensimmäisenä itseasiassa saikin. Oikeasti, en tosin pyytänyt neuvoa koska tuo tilanne ei laukea enää millään, vaan enemmän itkettää tämä paska missä ihmisten ei edes anneta yrittää asioita koska joku ohjesääntö. Jota vielä tulkitaan eri paikoissa ihan eri tavalla. Poliisikaan ei enää tiedä mikä on laitonta ja mikä ei, sanovat sieltä kentältä. Viranomaiset eivät varsinkaan. Odotin lähinnä sitä, että joku olisi vastannut tuohon viestiin joko puolustellen sääntelyä tai haukkuen minut natsirasistiksi koska kaverin vene on selkeesti paska ja rasistivene. Enivei sitten SSS mölisee, että alkakaa yrittäjiksi kaikki. (Ei tarvi enää maksaa sitä ansiosidonnaistakaan tai muitakaan tukia, joten jää ehkä rahaa tärkeämpään kuten Ruotsin pakolaisiin. Sori, oli pakko.)
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Apr 16, 2016 12:09
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Darkest Auer posted:Kaiverra "EU" veneen kylkeen, täytä se verellä ja sitten sano kolme kertaa "äs äs äs". Tämä johtaa siihen, että maan syövereistä nousee esiin Hallitus, joka täyttää kutsujalleen yhden toiveen. Mutta varo! hinta on kova, kaverisi joutuu äänestämään loppuikänsä Keskustaa. Be careful not to pronounce it (correctly) as "ES ES ES" as this will summon me.
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Apr 16, 2016 12:09
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Ligur posted:Sellaisen se ensimmäisenä itseasiassa saikin. toi sun tarinasi kuulostaa käyräkurkkudirektiivi-tarinalta en jaksa uskoa että sun kaverisi ei voi aloittaa bisnestä koska yksikään virkamies koko maassa ei tiedä miten jotain lupaa haetaan taitaa vaan olla niin että sun kaverisi ei ole kauhean fiksu ja se on mennyt ostamaan lupaa ärrältä tai jotain
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Apr 16, 2016 12:16
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