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Neoliberalism is bad (but it's the left's fault) Apparently there is no viable alternative to neoliberalism - at least not one that 'the left' have come up with. Doesn't look like this book proposes a solution, just says that one needs to happen. Gonzo McFee posted:Who the gently caress is this 35% who would still vote conservative? What's their lives like? People who haven't been that badly hit since 2008 because they were already pretty well off so haven't seen first hand the dismantling of public services and/or have bought into the ideology that if they are worse off it's because skivers or immigrants are stressing the system and ruining it for them.
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Apr 17, 2016 10:57
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thespaceinvader posted:The fact that the 150,000 people protesting in London yesterday have barely scratched the headlines. e: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/anti-austerity-protest-50000-london-david-cameron-resignation-trafalgar-square-a6987276.html Seaside Loafer fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Apr 17, 2016 |
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Apr 17, 2016 10:57
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Seaside Loafer posted:There were? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/anti-austerity-protest-50000-london-david-cameron-resignation-trafalgar-square-a6987276.html The Indy's carrying it, and it was all over twitter in the relevant places, but none of the major papers have it front-page, they're alternating between WILLS AND KATE IN INDIA and JOHN WHITTINGDALE HAD SEX THE BASTARD
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Apr 17, 2016 11:02
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Number 10 on bbc news top stories underneath 'boaty mc-boatface' and axl rose going on tour with ac-dc :/ e: to be fair i did spend most of saterday sleeping but you would have though id have heard a peep of it somewhere, sounds like a pretty loving major event Seaside Loafer fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Apr 17, 2016 |
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Apr 17, 2016 11:08
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Gonzo McFee posted:Who the gently caress is this 35% who would still vote conservative? What's their lives like? Either the tiny minority that benefit from the status quo, or those that haven't been noticeably harmed by it (or haven't realised that they have been) and have been told that change is scary.
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Apr 17, 2016 11:14
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Steve2911 posted:Either the tiny minority that benefit from the status quo, or those that haven't been noticeably harmed by it (or haven't realised that they have been) and have been told that change is scary. And those who have been harmed by it but believe it's Labours fault, immigrants fault or everyone but them is lazy scum and so deserve what they get, even if it costs them personally.
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Apr 17, 2016 11:22
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Gonzo McFee posted:Who the gently caress is this 35% who would still vote conservative? What's their lives like? I always think of my boss. He votes Tory because Thatcher let his mum buy his council house, and because he wants his taxes to be lower. He doesn't know any poor, black or disabled people (but he's working class because he grew up on a council estate, despite owning a multi-million pound business), and he has no empathy, so he doesn't give a poo poo about any of the cuts. He thinks the biggest problem facing the UK is political correctness. So yeah, lovely people.
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Apr 17, 2016 11:26
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Gonzo McFee posted:Who the gently caress is this 35% who would still vote conservative? What's their lives like? Since the election made all the polling organisations rejig their sample weighting, ComRes has consistently putting out polls with the Tories around 40-42% while everyone else has been putting them around 37-38 except YouGov who've been putting them around 34-35. I think ComRes has been overestimating the Tories and YouGov has been underestimating them. Either way, this is a drop of 7 points for the Tories compared to their best ComRes poll.
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Apr 17, 2016 11:30
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Seaside Loafer posted:Number 10 on bbc news top stories underneath 'boaty mc-boatface' and axl rose going on tour with ac-dc :/ Nowhere on the BBC news front page, small sidebar on the BBC news politics page, with no photo, headline 'thousands rally against austerity' technically accurate and completely misleading. The top ten stories are compiled by what people are reading, and are no indication of editorial direction.
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Apr 17, 2016 11:36
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Gonzo McFee posted:Who the gently caress is this 35% who would still vote conservative? What's their lives like? The ignorant, the stupid, and the malicious. And the 1% who actually benefit.
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Apr 17, 2016 11:40
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thespaceinvader posted:This is bad for Corbyn. Is the personal rating for an opposition leader always expected to have a certain credibility gap to the incumbent PM? It doesn't look great for Corbyn so far otherwise - I doubt Cameron could be personally less popular than right now and there's still a healthy margin between them. Prince John fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Apr 17, 2016 |
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Apr 17, 2016 11:45
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Gonzo McFee posted:Who the gently caress is this 35% who would still vote conservative? What's their lives like? Lucrative.
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Apr 17, 2016 11:48
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EvilGenius posted:Lucrative. Nah, the UK's income distribution isn't that generous.
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Apr 17, 2016 11:54
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Prince John posted:Is the personal rating for an opposition leader always expected to have a certain credibility gap to the incumbent PM? It doesn't look great for Corbyn so far otherwise - I doubt Cameron could be personally less popular than right now and there's still a healthy margin between them. I'd expect so, Incumbents generally have the advantage of being the status quo, so if poo poo hasn't gotten bad for them they see no reason to change things.
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Apr 17, 2016 12:01
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Seaside Loafer posted:Number 10 on bbc news top stories underneath 'boaty mc-boatface' and axl rose going on tour with ac-dc :/ The boaty mcboatface thing lead to one of the most surreal internet-leaking articles I've seen, with the both the telegraph and graun going on about how the irreverence and humour made them glad to be British. If you let idiots online make a decision, you'll get a stupid answer. This'll happen in almost every country. But then, trying to spin everything back to how it relates to national character is, ironically, very English.
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Apr 17, 2016 12:04
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Prince John posted:Is the personal rating for an opposition leader always expected to have a certain credibility gap to the incumbent PM? It doesn't look great for Corbyn so far otherwise - I doubt Cameron could be personally less popular than right now and there's still a healthy margin between them. As I understand it, yes. Incumbents have all the advantages when it comes to public opinion: - legitimacy - i.e. they've got the job already so they MUST be good at it, right - visibility - i.e. they are Doing Things all the time, and their Things Get Done so they must be better at it, right? - being the status quo - i.e. change is scary - better message control - they're much more able to be proactive about what is happening and what the story is - etc. Corbyn also has issues around people knowing about him - he's still VERY new for a major politician - and having the majority of the press actively sabotaging him, not to mention many of his MPs. Given all of that, Corbyn is by my estimation, performing very well. In the six months he's been in charge his and the party's ratings have been increasing overall fairly steadily whilst the Tories' and the majority fo their potential leadership candidates' have been plunging, Boris excepted. But on the converse, I don't really trust polling when polling has been extremely wrong in the most recent election and the 'fix' is to shrug their shoulders and knock a few points off one side and add them to the other rather than to make a serious examination of their methods and sample groups. Also when one of the major companies is run by a (former?) major Tory donor.
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Apr 17, 2016 12:12
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i really really hate tories
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Apr 17, 2016 12:22
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LemonDrizzle posted:New ComRes poll: I..what 
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Apr 17, 2016 12:34
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As poo poo as Corbyn has been, I'm still not certain that any of the alternatives would have made much of a difference. If anything, the Blairites would have been the most vocal defenders of Cameron throughout the tax dodging narrative.
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Apr 17, 2016 12:38
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thespaceinvader posted:As I understand it, yes. Incumbents have all the advantages when it comes to public opinion: Pretty much all the pollsters are politically inclined: Peter Keller (head of yougov) is a labour supporter, for example. You've got to be interested in politics to start a polling company, but all polling companies want to find out what people ACTUALLY think, as opposed to what they'd like them to think.
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Apr 17, 2016 12:41
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Thanks Ants posted:I..what Temporarily embarrassed millionaires?
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Apr 17, 2016 12:48
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I've met several people who agree with the latter question while still voting Tory and not being rich, due to believing them to be the only competent party. Or, being members and believing that they can change it for the better.
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Apr 17, 2016 12:54
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Thanks Ants posted:I..what People who both think that they are rich and think that their definition of rich is the same as the Tories. I.e. people who are stupid, ignorant, or both. nothing to seehere posted:Pretty much all the pollsters are politically inclined: Peter Keller (head of yougov) is a labour supporter, for example. You've got to be interested in politics to start a polling company, but all polling companies want to find out what people ACTUALLY think, as opposed to what they'd like them to think. I kind of assume that all pollsters have some political bias, which is part of the reason I don't trust polling. But not all of them are having a bitchfest with the Prime Minister because the PM offered them a job and later reneged.
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Apr 17, 2016 12:55
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thespaceinvader posted:This is bad for Corbyn. 5% behind a deeply divided government led by a pig loving tax avoider a year after a general election? It's loving terrible for Corbyn.
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Apr 17, 2016 13:07
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Polls are fine. Cut out the top and bottom outlier for the question you're looking to answer, take an average of the rest, done. There is no better way to get information that is more accurate than that without everyone in the country taking an hour long questionnaire.
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Apr 17, 2016 13:13
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Hoops posted:Polls are fine. Cut out the top and bottom outlier for the question you're looking to answer, take an average of the rest, done. There is no better way to get information that is more accurate than that without everyone in the country taking an hour long questionnaire. Shrug, accept that you can't find out very well what people think because of biases, ignore polls, campaign locally, on the basis of actually doing the right thing. I'm never really sure what polling is supposed to actually... say, anyway? If you're going to be a jackass, you're going to be a jackass even if polling tells you people hate jackasses. If you're going to do the right thing, ditto. So, what is polling telling us that we actually act on?
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Apr 17, 2016 13:36
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Green Wing posted:I've met several people who agree with the latter question while still voting Tory and not being rich, due to believing them to be the only competent party. Or, being members and believing that they can change it for the better. I have frequent arguments with someone exactly like this. Works in a shop, has 2 kids deeply dependent on the NHS. wife works part time. He'd have been horribly hit by changes to working tax credits, but votes tory and defends them because 'the rest are worse and theres no competent opposition.'
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Apr 17, 2016 13:38
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nothing to seehere posted:Pretty much all the pollsters are politically inclined: Peter Keller (head of yougov) Kellner, Peter Keller's an American survivalist murderer type. (YouGov itself was founded by two Tories, one of whom is now an MP, the other an unsuccessful candidate)
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Apr 17, 2016 13:56
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Thanks Ants posted:I..what Voting intention breakdown vs general attitudes including people who aren't planning to vote? We had 66% turnout last time and only a third of them voted tory serious gaylord posted:I have frequent arguments with someone exactly like this. Works in a shop, has 2 kids deeply dependent on the NHS. wife works part time. He'd have been horribly hit by changes to working tax credits, but votes tory and defends them because 'the rest are worse and theres no competent opposition.' I don't think pissflaps works in a shop, he'd have told us
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Apr 17, 2016 14:01
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serious gaylord posted:I have frequent arguments with someone exactly like this. Works in a shop, has 2 kids deeply dependent on the NHS. wife works part time. He'd have been horribly hit by changes to working tax credits, but votes tory and defends them because 'the rest are worse and theres no competent opposition.' It makes me think of that woman on Question Time who was almost in tears about tax credit cuts. Like the old adage - "the only moral abortion is my abortion". All of these people don't think of these things as benefits, but as something they're entitled to.
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Apr 17, 2016 15:28
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The Sunday Times are going up against the Guardian for asinine comment pieces. Nothing will ever top "The Tyrannical World of Thomas the Tank Engine", though.
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Apr 17, 2016 15:48
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Pissflaps posted:5% behind a deeply divided government led by a pig loving tax avoider a year after a general election? It's loving terrible for Corbyn. The mistake you keep making is believing that it's Corbyn's fault that Labour have not closed the gap. Rather than this country being trash.
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Apr 17, 2016 16:38
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You must admit, he's made mistakes/could be doing better! *ignores that the person who could do better without being a massive sellout does not exist*
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Apr 17, 2016 16:55
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Regarde Aduck posted:The mistake you keep making is believing that it's Corbyn's fault that Labour have not closed the gap. Rather than this country being trash. There are also things Corbyn could be doing more effectively and there are things the Labour party could stop doing that would help immensely.
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Apr 17, 2016 17:15
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My favorite is "He's not holding the government to account" coupled with "Oh yeah well he would say that, who cares?" when he does.
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Apr 17, 2016 17:16
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So I read about the Palace of Westminster falling apart again this morning, with the suggestion that they could move parliament to Bristol for five to six years. It's not the first time I've ever heard the idea or anything, but I absolutely love it and think it could have seriously profound and wide reaching implications on how the country is run.
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Apr 17, 2016 17:29
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Anything that stops London being a focal point for literally everything is a good idea as far as I'm concerned.
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Apr 17, 2016 17:31
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Thanks Ants posted:Anything that stops London being a focal point for literally everything is a good idea as far as I'm concerned.
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Apr 17, 2016 17:36
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The House of Commons should be next to Birmingham New Street. You can get anywhere from New Street. Crewe is probably not going to work.
Hoops fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Apr 17, 2016 |
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Apr 17, 2016 17:42
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New storm in a teacup for Corbyn as liberals fall over themselves to defend McDonalds after Corbyn says something mean about them when supporting fast food workers strike for higher wages. https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/721720076584513536 A very British Chick-fil-a, a bunch of middle class liberals claiming that Corbyn is looking down on poors as they try to choke down McDonalds lovely grey burgers and ignore that the company has pretty much been the standby for "Evil Corporation" since the 1980's.
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