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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

All of your examples are the ends of extended fight scenes, nobody gets one-shotted in their first "round" like a chump. Before Anakin loses his arm, he takes face full of Dooku's Force lightning. Luke gets pelted with all sorts of crap by Vader. Dooku gets kicked off a railing by Anakin. It's not a stretch to imagine they suffered a minor critical injury that set them up for the 101–105 "Maimed" result. Or they had modded their lightsabers to grant Vicious. Or they had a lingering critical injury from earlier in the movie. Or it's a game mechanic that prevents characters from receiving crippling injuries on the very first blow. Take your pick, really.

Shockeh posted:

EE: Page 229 of EoR says 'When wounds exceed a character's wound threshold, the player should track the number of wounds by which his character has exceeded the threshold, to a maximum of twice the wound threshold.' Which is where it feels like it should kill someone beyond that, or at least extrapolate why you don't track beyond that point, but doesn't actually state it.
You don't die from racking up wounds, but going over your wound threshold triggers a crit. You track the "excess" wounds to find out how long you have to recover before you're no longer incapacitated. I would guess you stop at twice the threshold to make recovering actually possible. If you could rack up all the wounds in the world, the mechanics of healing would mean a coma of weeks, because even bacta only heals five wounds a day.

But you're absolutely right, the book can be terribly obtuse. I had to google how to raise a character's Force Rating, because it's not really said anywhere in the Force rules. You just sort of have to notice the "Force Rating" talent in the appropriate talent trees.

Siivola fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Apr 18, 2016

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Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011

kingcom posted:

By default they can be sundered like any weapon really and lightsabers have the sunder quality.

drat, that's annoying. I think I might be thinking of something in a previous campaign I played in, like

TheTofuShop posted:

Are you using the Force and Destiny book? What you're describing sounds like Refined Cortosis Gauntlets, which have rules for shorting out lightsabers.

This. I'll definitely have to look into it further, in case it starts to look like lightsabers will come into play. (Since at this point the players are: A sniper, an astromech, as well as the above melee+heavy weapons guy. No one really seems interested in becoming a force sensitive, at this point)

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost
It's a pretty open secret that the RPG rules don't really model the movies. Like, at all.

There's no focus in the movies on gun porn or modifications. Ship modifications are mentioned briefly regarding the Millennium Falcon, and the smuggling compartment is used narratively, but that's about it.

You mention combat not being lethal enough, but it's actually pretty rocket tag-y. In the movies the heroes almost never get hit until a big climactic moment. If they were trying to model the movies then a more narrative stakes-setting combat system probably would have been appropriate.

Instead we got Space Shadowrun with funky dice.

Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it's not exactly Star Wars.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


ImpactVector posted:

It's a pretty open secret that the RPG rules don't really model the movies. Like, at all.

There's no focus in the movies on gun porn or modifications. Ship modifications are mentioned briefly regarding the Millennium Falcon, and the smuggling compartment is used narratively, but that's about it.

You mention combat not being lethal enough, but it's actually pretty rocket tag-y. In the movies the heroes almost never get hit until a big climactic moment. If they were trying to model the movies then a more narrative stakes-setting combat system probably would have been appropriate.

Instead we got Space Shadowrun with funky dice.

Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it's not exactly Star Wars.
I think that's pretty much my own problem with the FFG Star Wars RPG. I used to play Shadowrun quite a lot and although I like the feel of Shadowrun, it wasn't something that I wanted replicated within Star Wars.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine
:smug:


At least regarding gunporn and ship customizations: while they certainly weren't really brought up in the movies, they've definitely been A Thing in Star Wars for long, long before this current incarnation of the RPG. The lived-in universe and Han & Chewie being shown tinkering with the hot-rodded Millennium Falcon paint a very definite picture of technological customization being important.

You're pretty right about combat though.

Shockeh
Feb 24, 2009

Now be a dear and
fuck the fuck off.
Yeah; So now I know that, just thinking how I want to houserule it - In the movies, it's a lot of shooting, but very little hitting, and if you do get hit (Leia's shot to the shoulder in RotJ, Chewbacca getting hit in TFA) it's clearly really bad news. I want to ensure there's lots of fire whizzing about, but getting tagged is a big deal. Then use objectives to ensure it doesn't become 'Waist High Cover Shooter, The RPG'

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


After trying the FFG version of Star Wars, our GM made a FATE-hack for Star Wars which I thought went pretty well, but we didn't continue playing it because the GM didn't like FATE All that much :v:

I agree that to get the Star Wars feel you would need a much more narrative-driven game.

Shockeh
Feb 24, 2009

Now be a dear and
fuck the fuck off.
Why are you in another thread with me Tekopo. Why. :v:

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost

Shockeh posted:

Yeah; So now I know that, just thinking how I want to houserule it - In the movies, it's a lot of shooting, but very little hitting, and if you do get hit (Leia's shot to the shoulder in RotJ, Chewbacca getting hit in TFA) it's clearly really bad news. I want to ensure there's lots of fire whizzing about, but getting tagged is a big deal. Then use objectives to ensure it doesn't become 'Waist High Cover Shooter, The RPG'
I mean, if you're looking to houserule and your players are on board, you can just say wound threshold is "the threshold of near-misses until you get hit" and just say only crits are actually hits.

Drone posted:

At least regarding gunporn and ship customizations: while they certainly weren't really brought up in the movies, they've definitely been A Thing in Star Wars for long, long before this current incarnation of the RPG. The lived-in universe and Han & Chewie being shown tinkering with the hot-rodded Millennium Falcon paint a very definite picture of technological customization being important.
The mods are kind of a sore point for me because while I thought that stuff was awesome when I was 13, I just honestly don't have the time or the brain space to deal with it anymore. But I can accept that that's a preference thing and just not deal with it myself.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


Shockeh posted:

Why are you in another thread with me Tekopo. Why. :v:
We were separated at birth?

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

It's a loving hit point system, of course it does an rear end job of resembling any sort of cinema combat. Nobody just "gets hit" on screen (unless it's a kung fu movie) because people expect weapons to kill and maim and hurt instead of "doing damage". But then, rolling "misses" for fifteen rounds until something finally dies is generally a poo poo time for everyone involved, so people tend to forgive games where you have to shoot a dude five times with a rifle to kill them.

If you want to make a combat system that models Star Wars or whatever, start off by throwing away the hit points. Hell, throw away enemy attack rolls while you're at it, just treat Stormtroopers as a super dangerous environmental effect. Shooting at Stormtroopers suppresses the incoming shots because they're falling over and diving for cover – but be careful, because if you stand up too tall, they might start shooting at you instead! Feel like dueling with Count Dooku? Lightsaber combat rolls build some sort of resource you can cash in for chopped hands in the end, but loving up the action means you leave yourself open for getting lightning in the face.

So basically make a Fate hack or something. Or maybe Apocalypse World, I like Apocalypse World. Name it "The World Where Han Shot First".


Edit: Okay that was pretty Negative Nancy of me. If you really want to just stick within the existing framework, maybe try throwing away Wounds altogether and deal damage as Strain instead. That way getting shot at gets on people's nerves and eats into their mental resources, effectively slowing them down because they can't spend Strain to take more maneuvers. Then give all weapons Vicious 4 to skip past the easy injuries and into the "you might bleed to death if shot" range. I dunno, it might work. It fucks up a number of talents but it might work.


Drone posted:

At least regarding gunporn and ship customizations: while they certainly weren't really brought up in the movies, they've definitely been A Thing in Star Wars for long, long before this current incarnation of the RPG. The lived-in universe and Han & Chewie being shown tinkering with the hot-rodded Millennium Falcon paint a very definite picture of technological customization being important.
A lot of the EU material reinforced this. I still have the first Incredible Cross-Sections book, and oh gosh it's just full of juicy details about all the ways the Falcon or the Slave I or the Rebels' fleet of Y-Wings have been hotrodded.

Siivola fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Apr 18, 2016

KittyEmpress
Dec 30, 2012

Jam Buddies

Shockeh posted:

Yeah; So now I know that, just thinking how I want to houserule it - In the movies, it's a lot of shooting, but very little hitting, and if you do get hit (Leia's shot to the shoulder in RotJ, Chewbacca getting hit in TFA) it's clearly really bad news. I want to ensure there's lots of fire whizzing about, but getting tagged is a big deal. Then use objectives to ensure it doesn't become 'Waist High Cover Shooter, The RPG'

This is a bad idea.

Like, on multiple levels, the first being that taking a random chance and saying 'it's a low chance, so if it happens, you're pretty majorly hosed up' is a terrible way to design a game, unless you're aiming to play like, Only War or Warhammer Fantasy RPG, and intend to replace characters every few sessions. Dice are swingy as gently caress, and your people might get pissed off because 15 rounds with no hits, or they might get pissed off because you roll really good and kill two of them round one.

The second being that you'd need to completely rewrite the system, because the system is built around using crits, which seriously isn't nearly as hard as you seem to think it is. My assassin droid at around the same time she got Dedication the first time (though I took it kinda late, because two talent trees), had about +70 to all her crits, and crit on a single advantage, through a mix of talents and weapon choice. The wookie I was with in the same game around the same time using big melee weapons had +90 to his crits. He literally had to roll at least 11 to permanently take off someone's limb like you said was 'impossible'. Yeah, I had to roll an 81 to kill someone in one attack, and they had to still roll a 61, but the system isn't made to completely obliterate people in one attack.

Blowing off someone's arm, severing their spine, utterly tearing them apart should probably still remove them from the fight, barring things like droids, but they wouldn't be nemesis unless they were smart enough to have self preservation still.


If you want to do the cinema 'tons of shooting but rare hits' then just realize that the stormtroopers probably have auto, burst fire, or other kinds of weapons that don't just shoot one shot and hit someone. Maybe they shot a burst of ten shots and one got a glancing blow along someone's side.



I mean look at it this way - Vader cut off Luke's hand easily because he's Darth loving Vader. He is the boogeyman. He's the epitome of a high XP villain. Anakin when fighting Dooku too - this is literally episode III, that's three major adventure arcs of XP for him. Three full 'stories'. He had at least two hundred, probably way more XP, even if you only take into account the prequels and not the Clone Wars.

Your characters will be able to do this crazy poo poo too, when they have had adventures and grown and gotten XP and can now murderize everything. But you don't start as king poo poo in this game. In Edge of the Empire you are desperate dredges of societies forced into a life of action, in Age of Rebellion you are newly recruited agents of the rebellion, untested and untrusted, in Force and Destiny you are young force sensitives without proper training, on the run from agents of the empire.

None of these start you off as a badass Jedi with a top tier lightsaber who has gone into combat a hundred times. If you want to start off like that, give everyone 200 extra xp, and bam. They'll be one shotting things.

KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Apr 18, 2016

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

KittyEmpress posted:

This is a bad idea.

Like, on multiple levels, the first being that taking a random chance and saying 'it's a low chance, so if it happens, you're pretty majorly hosed up' is a terrible way to design a game, unless you're aiming to play like, Only War or Warhammer Fantasy RPG, and intend to replace characters every few sessions. Dice are swingy as gently caress, and your people might get pissed off because 15 rounds with no hits, or they might get pissed off because you roll really good and kill two of them round one.

I know most people in this thread know it, but FFG's Star Wars is a modified version of FFG's Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3E. The similarities in gameplay are not accidental, even though they are sometimes sub-optimal for a Star War.

KittyEmpress
Dec 30, 2012

Jam Buddies

homullus posted:

I know most people in this thread know it, but FFG's Star Wars is a modified version of FFG's Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3E. The similarities in gameplay are not accidental, even though they are sometimes sub-optimal for a Star War.

I never played WFRP 3e, but I just remember 2e basically starting you off as a dirt farmer or diplomat or a wizard apprentice and you would get your poo poo kicked in by a single normal bull because you were the shittiest of the lovely, and people died constantly. Any bad roll meant someone died in like one hit, a single hit with a sword meant write a new character. It was a pain, and very much Not Star Wars.


I've yet to have anywhere near the same issue in this, and have yet to have a PC die in combat except for a time someone went on a suicide charge into ten enemies (including 2 inquisitors), to let the rest of us get away.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

KittyEmpress posted:

I never played WFRP 3e, but I just remember 2e basically starting you off as a dirt farmer or diplomat or a wizard apprentice and you would get your poo poo kicked in by a single normal bull because you were the shittiest of the lovely, and people died constantly. Any bad roll meant someone died in like one hit, a single hit with a sword meant write a new character. It was a pain, and very much Not Star Wars.


I've yet to have anywhere near the same issue in this, and have yet to have a PC die in combat except for a time someone went on a suicide charge into ten enemies (including 2 inquisitors), to let the rest of us get away.

WFRP 3E had a boatload of neat innovations on RPGs. FFG Star Wars inherits a streamlined version of its dice system and the "specializations are additive rather than restrictive." The thing I most wish it had inherited was the Party Sheet. There were different kinds of parties (Star Wars versions would be "band of smugglers" vs "fugitives from justice" vs "freedom fighters," for example), and it was the place for slotting skills that the whole party had access to and for tracking party stress. I think it was a missed opportunity that they didn't use that to highlight party Obligation, and/or go with Ship Sheets.

Finster Dexter
Oct 20, 2014

Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

homullus posted:

WFRP 3E had a boatload of neat innovations on RPGs. FFG Star Wars inherits a streamlined version of its dice system and the "specializations are additive rather than restrictive." The thing I most wish it had inherited was the Party Sheet. There were different kinds of parties (Star Wars versions would be "band of smugglers" vs "fugitives from justice" vs "freedom fighters," for example), and it was the place for slotting skills that the whole party had access to and for tracking party stress. I think it was a missed opportunity that they didn't use that to highlight party Obligation, and/or go with Ship Sheets.

FFG Star Wars does have ship sheets, though. And AoR has base sheets, IIRC.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Finster Dexter posted:

FFG Star Wars does have ship sheets, though. And AoR has base sheets, IIRC.

The FFG ship sheets are character sheets for the ship. I meant something that was more of an abstraction of "having a ship of a certain kind," akin to the party sheets in WFRP 3E, with slots for cargo or holding cells or special comms -- things that affect the narrative rather than numbers for hull strength and gun arcs.

Finster Dexter
Oct 20, 2014

Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

homullus posted:

The FFG ship sheets are character sheets for the ship. I meant something that was more of an abstraction of "having a ship of a certain kind," akin to the party sheets in WFRP 3E, with slots for cargo or holding cells or special comms -- things that affect the narrative rather than numbers for hull strength and gun arcs.

oic, yeah that would be cool

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.
Airship pirates does this; one of the things that's part of chargen for it is "Decide what sort of crew you are: look up the mandatory skills for that sort of crew. Everyone gets bonus points to spend so that all the skills for that type are covered."

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Just so people know what I mean, here's one from WFRP3E:




The meter is "party tension" in that game -- for example, the GM can add to it when the party is wasting time, and the players themselves can add to it when they feel it represents their characters' disagreement with the current course of action. At certain points, these increases trigger party-wide effects, and eventually reset. The slots for cards do something akin to what unseenlibrarian just mentioned -- give everyone access to skills that normally only a certain character has. They can be swapped out, and each different party type can equip different kinds of these talents.

Where the trigger points are on the party tension meter, and what its effects are, would have been an interesting way of handling Obligation for different kinds of the Empire's dregs in EotE. They could have gone with the card + slots for a few kinds of ships and let people POD or homebrew their own for whatever unique snowflake EU ship they just have to have. Instead of hard points and modifications and hull damage, you'd get things like "when you first arrive on a planet, you can always find a place to land for free" and the GM could potentially disable that ability through more narrative ship combat.

Anyway, none of those things happened in the game.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum
Huh....now I really want to homebrew something up like that for Star Wars...

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Were I doing so, I would look at having people choose a Obligation from a narrative standpoint, and then every time it came up in the adventure, jack the Obligation track up (and then I'd make sure to give players tough choices, like "There's a guy in body armor at the door saying he represents Sleemo the Hutt . . . should I tell him you're here?" You get one for the track if you meet him, two if you don't). The incentive for resolving Obligations would be similar to what it is now -- not having your baggage dragging down the party -- but without the need to set arbitrary numbers on how Obligated you are, and without the need to "keep" the party at a certain number artificially.

A series of party sheets also nicely encompasses how a group of fugitives might work as mercenaries for a while, eventually becoming freedom fighters and eventually Rebels, and having it flow organically from the narrative.

Finster Dexter
Oct 20, 2014

Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

jivjov posted:

Huh....now I really want to homebrew something up like that for Star Wars...

Especially for Morality. Wasn't a big reason for the random roll for Morality that they wanted to avoid arguments? Well, have something like this where the GM decides if it's good or bad conflict and if there is a disagreement, the GM can have them file their complaints with the Party Tension Meter or something. I dunno just spitballin here

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund

homullus posted:

Were I doing so, I would look at having people choose a Obligation from a narrative standpoint, and then every time it came up in the adventure, jack the Obligation track up (and then I'd make sure to give players tough choices, like "There's a guy in body armor at the door saying he represents Sleemo the Hutt . . . should I tell him you're here?" You get one for the track if you meet him, two if you don't). The incentive for resolving Obligations would be similar to what it is now -- not having your baggage dragging down the party -- but without the need to set arbitrary numbers on how Obligated you are, and without the need to "keep" the party at a certain number artificially.

A series of party sheets also nicely encompasses how a group of fugitives might work as mercenaries for a while, eventually becoming freedom fighters and eventually Rebels, and having it flow organically from the narrative.

This what I do.

I'll be opening recruitment for my first one shot, but it will have a set list of Obligations that MUST be picked up. They have minimum values and players can take extra for more exp, but yeah... I have a roulette wheel in mind to use for each story.

A lot of the complaints about the lack of narrative due to the wounds system is on you guys, on an aside. Our current Roll20 game doesn't take such a concrete view of the Wound system (which the books imply is supposed to be an abstraction, not a literal tracking of wounds) and it's been working great. Your character is at 3/12 then maybe they had a shot graze them and are a little shaken... It's the crits that actually matter, and they start adding up fast.

Madurai
Jun 26, 2012

KittyEmpress posted:

This is a bad idea.


Nothing puts me off RPG's more than ticking off hit points.

ShineDog
May 21, 2007
It is inevitable!

Madurai posted:

Nothing puts me off RPG's more than ticking off hit points.

My issue is that wounds in swrpg are actual wounds and actually represent injury. In games I like, hit points just represent general combat stress and your luck running out, with the point you become bloodied it downed being the "you've taken actual damage" point.

Swrpg treating them as actual damage is stupid. Everyone always getting blasted. Everyone always spending days in the bacta tank or jamming stimpaks in their legs.

Pretty much the first thing we did was a gentle house rule to that. Wounds are now HP, and stimpaks are actually just second winds or characters catching their breath. Mechanically identical other than a trivial amount of money that I tax elsewhere.

Other than that I've found it fairly evocative if the films, provided you pitch combat difficulty well and encourage lots of big narrative swings out of advantage and disadvantage when the odds aren't in their favour

ShineDog fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Apr 19, 2016

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
If you're still taking hits to your wound threshold, you're not actually taking damage. That's bumps, bruises, glancing hits, etc. You're not actually taking a real hit, a wound, until you're capped out and start rolling on the crit table. Then you're taking a solid hit with an actual effect on your character mechanically and narratively.

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

ShineDog posted:

My issue is that wounds in swrpg are actual wounds and actually represent injury. In games I like, hit points just represent general combat stress and your luck running out, with the point you become bloodied it downed being the "you've taken actual damage" point.

Swrpg treating them as actual damage is stupid. Everyone always getting blasted. Everyone always spending days in the bacta tank or jamming stimpaks in their legs.

Pretty much the first thing we did was a gentle house rule to that. Wounds are now HP, and stimpaks are actually just second winds or characters catching their breath. Mechanically identical other than a trivial amount of money that I tax elsewhere.

Other than that I've found it fairly evocative if the films, provided you pitch combat difficulty well and encourage lots of big narrative swings out of advantage and disadvantage when the odds aren't in their favour

Yeah thats what I've always seen them to be. Stimpaks dont heal anything they're just shots of adrenaline essentially to keep you going and ignore any of the damage going on with you to keep going. 'Wounds' are just the luck/glancing blows/minor damage etc that it is in every other game. The big crit table is explicitly the actual lasting damage an attack can do.

EDIT: Ninja'd

The game honestly does the movie feeling pretty well in my experience at least. The destiny points giving people a lot of 'nah this happens' power seems to cover that gap people are having with my group anyway though the personal use of it particularly up to the group. The game is explicitly about letting you run original trilogy adventures and looking at the movies, people are rarely getting into prolonged firefights in that to begin with. Literally every time a pack of stormtroopers show up the heros shoot a couple of times then run. Giving how the squad system tends to limit the amount of shots going out, fights regularly break up with a couple of shots before the players clean up a squad and resolve the fight or get away. Having a big nemesis fight tends to lock down into protracted duels about the two characters burning through all their strain to spend on dodges or lightsaber parries more than not.

Speaking of lightsabers that is basically perfect for showing a movie duel. Every fight with two trained characters results in the two of them swinging at eachother and burning strain after strain to sink away the damage until they start getting to the point where their strain and wounds are low after a few rounds and limbs just start flying off.

kingcom fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Apr 19, 2016

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!
The main things that sorta breaks the movie feel for me (outside of gear porn) is how hard the game pushes on you to take cover and how your legs and arms are just riddled with stimpack bruises like a particularly needy junkie.

KittyEmpress
Dec 30, 2012

Jam Buddies

ProfessorCirno posted:

The main things that sorta breaks the movie feel for me (outside of gear porn) is how hard the game pushes on you to take cover and how your legs and arms are just riddled with stimpack bruises like a particularly needy junkie.

Almost every time they fight stormtroopers in the Original Trilogy, they either are using walls as cover and firing from doorways, or fleeing at full speed and only taking pot shots while not really trying to fight. Using cover is totally movie-like, it's just that most of the combat scenes in the movies take a few seconds at most, because they are always trying to escape, instead of trying to 'kill the enemy number!' This is especially true in A New Hope, aka the low XP experience.


Group I played with for the jedi game I was in we RPed that wounds was just another version of strain [but more specifically was 'oh poo poo i could have died'] and stimpacks were like, anti anxiety stuff. We also RPed our doctor as being a consular in the 'sit down on this couch' form of the word. It was pretty amusing.

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Whats wrong with the emphasis on cover? I seem to recall most blaster fights had people diving for cover after the initial exchange of shots except maybe during the running chase parts on the Death Star. Though storm troopers seem allergic to cover half the time.




efb

Ablative
Nov 9, 2012

Someone is getting this as an avatar. I don't know who, but it's gonna happen.

KittyEmpress posted:

Group I played with for the jedi game I was in we RPed that wounds was just another version of strain [but more specifically was 'oh poo poo i could have died'] and stimpacks were like, anti anxiety stuff. We also RPed our doctor as being a consular in the 'sit down on this couch' form of the word. It was pretty amusing.

You're thinking of a counselor there. Consulars are diplomats.

KittyEmpress
Dec 30, 2012

Jam Buddies

Ablative posted:

You're thinking of a counselor there. Consulars are diplomats.

Yes, the joke was the similarity between counselor and consular as words, it was the entire basis for character :v.


But yeah. Despite what the game says wounds are, you can make wounds whatever you like. They really don't matter that much.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine
:smug:


ProfessorCirno posted:

your legs and arms are just riddled with stimpack bruises like a particularly needy junkie.

I'm not too overly experienced in RPGs and have only played a smattering of them, but what's the alternative here? Everything I know has stimpacks or something similar (healing surge, medkits, potion of restoration, etc.)

Otherwise do you want someone who gets shot to have to spend the next three sessions in a bacta tank while the rest of the party continues on, depriving that unlucky player of fun? That would be the Star Wars experience.

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
Well if you're below your wound threshold, but have taken damage, you've: "suffered a few cuts, bruises, and scrapes. However he has not taken any permanent or incapacitating damage. He's a bit battered, but he's still hale and hearty overall."

So really your wound threshold should heal/reset at the same rate as Strain, with Bacta tanks and the like reserved for criticals. Stims are to prop you up in combat, they're full of nasty combat drugs to keep you going in the heat of the moment.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Drone posted:

I'm not too overly experienced in RPGs and have only played a smattering of them, but what's the alternative here?

The notion of "hitpoints" or damage systems that don't represent, like, actual physical injuries which need to be treated with healing drugs/magic isn't exactly new technology, it's been kicking around here and there in various forms in various games for decades now. Fate's stress system, for example, superficially resembles hitpoints in the sense that there are checkboxes/numbers which get ticked as you take "hits" but they don't represent actual bullet-hits-your-body damage. After each combat, accrued stress automatically clears. However if you take too much stress in a fight, generally by getting hit with successive attacks which overload your ability to narratively narrowly dodge/it's just a scrape/whatever it out of the way, then you're forced to either accept a Consequence (which is a kind of lingering complication, such as an injury but you can also acquire Consequences through social and mental conflict as well) or allow yourself to be taken out (which in Fate doesn't mean "instantly splattered across the walls like jam," simply that you've been defeated, removed from that particular conflict, and you and the GM negotiate out what being taken out means in this context...knocked down a winding shaft into the garbage compactor, taken prisoner, etc). Removing Consequences does generally require some form of aid within the narrative to enable recovery such as medical attention or counseling or whatever fits the particular consequence, but recovering stress doesn't require you to continually jab yourself with stimpacks, it's mainly just "okay, scene transition, everyone's stress clears."

If the question is "okay but what happens in the combat itself," generally Fate characters are durable enough that they aren't going to immediately be pushed into super-ultra-mega critical range by a single stormtrooper mob, and if you want to play someone who's even tougher than that then the game easily supports that sort of thing through stunts and what-have-you.

Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Apr 19, 2016

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

Drone posted:

I'm not too overly experienced in RPGs and have only played a smattering of them, but what's the alternative here? Everything I know has stimpacks or something similar (healing surge, medkits, potion of restoration, etc.)

Otherwise do you want someone who gets shot to have to spend the next three sessions in a bacta tank while the rest of the party continues on, depriving that unlucky player of fun? That would be the Star Wars experience.

Giving regular methods of healing that don't involve constantly jabbing yourself with a needle? Doing what other stated and not making it so a hit is a literal moment of getting your rear end shot?

It just doesn't mesh with how I view the movies, like, at all; Han isn't constantly getting zappo'd by the stormtroopes but thankfully keeps his Drug Gun in his other hand to inject into himself every other turn.

Honestly, even in the bigger fight scenes in the movies - like Jabba's barge - the heroes really just aren't really getting hit. And, you know, it's Star Wars. They could've renamed it to Literal Plot Armor and it would've worked better. But then of course the same nerds that go insane for their super specific gear porn probably would've had an ulcer over the lack of verisimilitude.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
If you want to preserve the specific numbers-going-up-and-down dynamic of the FFG Star Wars games but don't want it to be a result of sackfuls of Fallout-esque stimpacks which doesn't really have anything to do with Star Wars as presented, like, at all, then the way to do it I suppose would be to give every character a number of, I don't know, healing surges of some sort. Call them Dramatic Rallies or Second Wind points or whatever, and each one a player spends restores however much whatever that a stimpack does, only it does so through the power of plot armor and narrative convenience rather than shooting up space drugs, then have these healing surges restore themselves at a reasonable rate, bam, there you go.

TheTofuShop
Aug 28, 2009

ProfessorCirno posted:

Giving regular methods of healing that don't involve constantly jabbing yourself with a needle? Doing what other stated and not making it so a hit is a literal moment of getting your rear end shot?

It just doesn't mesh with how I view the movies, like, at all; Han isn't constantly getting zappo'd by the stormtroopes but thankfully keeps his Drug Gun in his other hand to inject into himself every other turn.

Honestly, even in the bigger fight scenes in the movies - like Jabba's barge - the heroes really just aren't really getting hit. And, you know, it's Star Wars. They could've renamed it to Literal Plot Armor and it would've worked better. But then of course the same nerds that go insane for their super specific gear porn probably would've had an ulcer over the lack of verisimilitude.

It sounds like you want a different game then. Maybe you could use Strike! and convert it to Star Wars?

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kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

Kai Tave posted:

If you want to preserve the specific numbers-going-up-and-down dynamic of the FFG Star Wars games but don't want it to be a result of sackfuls of Fallout-esque stimpacks which doesn't really have anything to do with Star Wars as presented, like, at all, then the way to do it I suppose would be to give every character a number of, I don't know, healing surges of some sort. Call them Dramatic Rallies or Second Wind points or whatever, and each one a player spends restores however much whatever that a stimpack does, only it does so through the power of plot armor and narrative convenience rather than shooting up space drugs, then have these healing surges restore themselves at a reasonable rate, bam, there you go.

All stimpacks exist to do is to just have a decreasing amount of healing at the cost of a maneuver so just saying healing surge and doing the same thing solved problem for my group (that came about from tracking how many stimpacks people have).

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