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https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6VIODxR76Y8akNhVVIyaXpIcDQ Here is Black Dungeon Crusade World (so far). It's not done, but any feedback is nice. This was basically an I'm Unemployed and Bored of Steam project. There will be more general changes, and I want to work on Possessed and Warpsmith more in particular. There are no monsters yet, but it's Dungeon World so those are probably the most low-effort thing in the game. Feel free to: -Pick apart my approach to DW mechanics. -Observe any balance problems you can pick up on. Right now I'm worried that it's too easy to get giant Parley bonuses, but there's probably stuff I'm not seeing. -Point out any formatting issues, I feel like I've hit most of these but they do pop up in a doc this big. -Comment on what's cool and what feels not cool and what could be improved by (X). -I guess you can comment on my abridged Chaos fluff, but keep in mind it was meant first for my gaming group, who I can't get to do things like read the APPROPRIATE CODICES let alone the absurdly over-written BC manuals  I'm used to working with more crunch-heavy systems when I do hacks so I have to constantly remind myself not to get carried away on certain aspects. But one of the problems I always had with DW is that it feels designed for one-offs, and I wanted to game that was complex enough to support sustained campaigns in the open-ended system. My ultimate hope is that people who enjoy chaos space marines but strongly dislike the Fantasy Flight game's mechanical peculiarities (which this thread seems to be full of) will get some use out of it and it can be one of the fabled Successful Goon Projects.
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Apr 17, 2016 07:42
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EthanSteele posted:RT Astropaths did it first. A melee weapon that does up to 1d10+42 (anywhere from 1d10+30 at the earliest you can get it iirc), +60 to WS and BS while also giving -60 to enemy BS when shooting at them. It's ok though, should they ever be unable to close to melee there is also a power that is 2d10+42 to 14 targets every round that you cast once and then sustain. You have to roll to hit and they get to dodge but, you know, so does everybody else when they use their guns. More than enough damage to kill pretty much anything and it's 13 friends within ~70m or something ridiculous. Is that corebook? I don't recognise it.
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Apr 17, 2016 08:32
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Tactical Advance is a movement option where you have to use Full Move. Would you say that this can be used in conjunction with Hip Shooting?
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Apr 18, 2016 09:49
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Iceshade posted:Tactical Advance is a movement option where you have to use Full Move. Would you say that this can be used in conjunction with Hip Shooting? I don't think so. Hip shooting says, "as a full action you can move your full movement and shoot. " I read that as indicating hip shooting is its own action, and can't be used with any other half or full a action.
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Apr 18, 2016 13:21
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Could someone give me a run down on the balance of power between Rogue Traders and the Inquisition?
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Apr 18, 2016 13:44
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Short answer(s): It depends, or, the Inquisition is more powerful. Rogue Traders are above nearly all common laws of the Imperium, and even when they aren't, the fact that they possess their own warp-faring craft and often go spelunking on the fringes of patrolled space( with spacetravel being the unreliable thing that it is), they often get away with a lot of stuff because no one sees them do it, or at least live to tell about it. The letter of appointment within a Warrant of Trade actually elevates a Rogue Trader to the SAME level of authority as an inquisitor. That said, Rogue Traders rarely cooperate, and if they are known to commit an important heresy or alliance with enemy xenos, the Inquisition would prosecute them ruthlessly. An entire Ordo would make short work of a lone Rogue Trader dynasty, and so only extremely powerful or insane traders flaunt their authority.
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Apr 18, 2016 14:56
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Sure, within charted space- but what could an Inquisitor reasonably bring to bear in, say, the Koronus Expanse? Given the whole "speaking with the voice of the Emperor beyond the borders of the Imperium" thing?
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Apr 18, 2016 16:17
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apostateCourier posted:Sure, within charted space- but what could an Inquisitor reasonably bring to bear in, say, the Koronus Expanse? Given the whole "speaking with the voice of the Emperor beyond the borders of the Imperium" thing? You mean besides their own armies and/or fleets?
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Apr 18, 2016 16:32
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apostateCourier posted:Sure, within charted space- but what could an Inquisitor reasonably bring to bear in, say, the Koronus Expanse? Given the whole "speaking with the voice of the Emperor beyond the borders of the Imperium" thing? Probably not much, but woe to that one rogue trader if they ever go back to the Imperium. Or they could put one of their kill teams undercover as voidsmen with the goal of getting on said rogue trader's ship and kill teaming them. Really there is nothing "outside" the borders of the Imperium, just worlds needing reclaiming from the downfall due to the age of strife. If you're human, you fall under the Inquisition jurisdiction.
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Apr 18, 2016 16:33
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They have absolute authority over everyone they can assert their authority over. They know they've failed to do so when they get excommunicated.
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Apr 18, 2016 16:46
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apostateCourier posted:Sure, within charted space- but what could an Inquisitor reasonably bring to bear in, say, the Koronus Expanse? Given the whole "speaking with the voice of the Emperor beyond the borders of the Imperium" thing?
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Apr 18, 2016 18:30
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A rogue trader can do essentially anything they want up to the point where they piss off an inquisitor of any level of decent standing. At which point they can be hosed over real hard of the inquisitor so wishes it. Don't quote me on this but I think the royal writs they get can be revoked if they gently caress up waaay too much though the ones signed by the emperor complicate things.
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Apr 18, 2016 19:57
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Telsa Cola posted:A rogue trader can do essentially anything they want up to the point where they piss off an inquisitor of any level of decent standing. At which point they can be hosed over real hard of the inquisitor so wishes it. Don't quote me on this but I think the royal writs they get can be revoked if they gently caress up waaay too much though the ones signed by the emperor complicate things. Which is the kind we have. Good to know we have a little more leeway.
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Apr 18, 2016 20:00
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Basically the best option is to not get caught in the first place.
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Apr 19, 2016 01:41
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Second-best option is to make a deal.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:51
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Third best option is to pin it on your most pressing rival.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:52
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Werix posted:I don't think so. Hip shooting says, "as a full action you can move your full movement and shoot. " I read that as indicating hip shooting is its own action, and can't be used with any other half or full a action. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. You could probably get in really gamey situations where you would move from cover to cover and shoot every round.
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Apr 19, 2016 06:48
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apostateCourier posted:Sure, within charted space- but what could an Inquisitor reasonably bring to bear in, say, the Koronus Expanse? Given the whole "speaking with the voice of the Emperor beyond the borders of the Imperium" thing? Anywhere from "a respectable amount" to "a biblical fire storm bringing the whole loving corrupted temple down on your head", basically. Inquisitors are the apex predators of the Imperial political machine - Given enough time, they either are subjugated to another inquisitor, die gruesomely, or become extremely dangerous to the degree that no one in their right mind would gently caress with them - This is why they are so eminently fuckwithable opponents for a Rogue Trader :iamafag: As Hunt 11 mentions, they do have their own military assets. Depending on ordo, this could be an order of Adepta Sororitas( Hereticus), A Deathwatch strike barge full of hungry Space Sharks( Xenos) or even a company of Grey Knights( Malleus). Also, while the power of an inquisitor is first and foremost in their strategic intellect and (more or less) competent minions, individual inquisitors always seem like the type able to gently caress you up royally. Many are master fighters or capable psykers, even when they're not radical heretics that pack a couple of daemonhosts inside their hapless servants. E: I spel gud Tias fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 08:20
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Inquisitors also have access to stormtroopers, as well as whatever other military assets they can secure through their own personal networks. Eisenhorn created an entire organisation of untouchables, and it's not unheard of for Inquisitors to requisition entire fleets and armies. Basically, if the Rogue Trader gets in enough poo poo, there's guaranteed to be an Inquisition presence out there big enough to take them down. The RT's challenge is to skirt that invisible line between sanctioned and heretical, and make the biggest profit without being caught.
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Apr 19, 2016 08:56
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The Rogue Trader might also have buddies in the Inquisition to trade favours or deals, and the Inquisitor might have a Rogue Trader or two in their pocket.
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Apr 19, 2016 09:02
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Then you have Inquisitors who also manage to become Rogue Traders, becoming the wildest wild cards Imperium has ever produced.
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Apr 19, 2016 09:33
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JcDent posted:Then you have Inquisitors who also manage to become Rogue Traders, becoming the wildest wild cards Imperium has ever produced. Got a source for this, outside of your own games?
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Apr 19, 2016 09:36
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In some book its mentioned that sometimes Inquisitors are forced into Rogue Trader position by their rivals (might even be Rogue Trader core book), but I don't know if they ever hold a dual position as both - canonically probably not.
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Apr 19, 2016 10:22
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That's pretty cool! On the subject of unpleasant adversaries: If you want to know pain, pick a feud with a Navigator house. It was the worst tangle my captain got into, and he had messed with everything from reavers and dark eldar to an apocalyptic daemon AI. Tias fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 10:25
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Tias posted:Got a source for this, outside of your own games? There is actually an example in the Rogue Trader adventure book Warpstorm 3: Fallen Suns where there is mention of a Inquisitor who is also a Rogue Trader that was lost in the Rifts of Heacaton. You find him stuffed in an Eldar Soulstone on a Chaos corrupted Eldar Craftworld
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Apr 19, 2016 13:53
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Tias posted:Got a source for this, outside of your own games? Lol, nothing like that ever happened in the combined 10 sessions I have played. I'm sure there's one mentioned in the main book. Went into Koronus with a massive fleet, eventually disappeared
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Apr 19, 2016 13:55
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Shiiiet, is there no unpleasantness not hidden in the rifts of Hecaton?
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Apr 19, 2016 13:56
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Tias posted:Shiiiet, is there no unpleasantness not hidden in the rifts of Hecaton? Best part is when you get a Xanthite Inquisitor to chain a Lord of Change onto your ship. Surprisingly, despite everyone freaking out on the table about it, the trip was actually the most smoothest trip we ever had. Best way to travel through the Rifts.
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Apr 19, 2016 15:18
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The Lone Badger posted:Is that corebook? I don't recognise it. Yup! Telekinetic Weapon and Storm of Force are all in the Telekinesis tree and Blessed By The Emperor is Divination in the corebook. There's also Precision Telekinesis which, for 100xp, lets you use your WP instead of anything else you'd use when using your hands. Fly a ship, shoot a gun, swing a sword, tie a knot, juggle, slip something into/out of someone's pocket, you name you can do it. I believe you substitute int bonus for strength bonus when doing it so you basically become the strongest and most skilled character at any given task you can attempt while only having to spend xp on two stats which are both purchased at the lowest rate possible. In our game we have run ins with the inquisition and for us it has come down to: in the expanse we can do whatever we want and they can try and gently caress with us and be annoying but not actually a huge threat and the same goes in the other direction, but once we hit Actual Imperium Space then it is time to be on our best behavior. It's been mostly dickwaving and going "we can't actually touch you, but we can do this and it'll ruffle your feathers" it just so happens that sometimes those feathers are worth 5 profit factor or have 15 billion people on them. EthanSteele fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 18:46
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Tias posted:That's pretty cool! Administratum was the worst foe my players ever tangled with. It's amazing what kind of knots and bad deals players will twist themselves into when suddenly their ship has a finite amount of fuel, ammunition, shuttles, guardsmen, and other supplies, and every non-Chaos human port refuses them docking privileges because the Administratum will do worse to them than anything the Rogue Trader can.
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Apr 19, 2016 20:40
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EthanSteele posted:Yup! Telekinetic Weapon and Storm of Force are all in the Telekinesis tree and Blessed By The Emperor is Divination in the corebook. Ok so... how are you getting those numbers? A Rank 2 Astropath picks up Telekinetic Weapon and Psy Rating 3, and Pushes to achieve an effective psy rating of 6. The weapon does 1d10+6 by my reading. (If he simultaneously uses a precog power then it drops to 1d10+4)
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Apr 19, 2016 22:49
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I've half a mind to start hacking together Deathwatch 2e based on the rules for DH2e and Only War. Although I think Rogue Trader needs a 2e first, Deathwatch needs one pretty badly since all the QoL improvements introduced from Black Crusade onward are too good to pass up. Besides, getting rid of the Rank system is never a bad idea. I would probably keep the requisition system in place, though. I definitely want the psyker rules from DH2e, and while that would admirably solve the runaway Librarian problem, I'd still need to come up with a way to ratchet back the power of the Techmarine so that he's not always the best person in the party. Regarding aptitudes, I think I could split them halfway between your chapter and your specialty
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Apr 19, 2016 23:06
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The Inquisitor-Rogue Trader is Kobras Aquairre, who appears in several of the books.
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Apr 19, 2016 23:20
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The Lone Badger posted:Ok so... how are you getting those numbers? A Rank 2 Astropath picks up Telekinetic Weapon and Psy Rating 3, and Pushes to achieve an effective psy rating of 6. The weapon does 1d10+6 by my reading. The Errata changes it from +1/psy rating to +3. It also changes the emperors one from +20/-30 to +-5/psy rating
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Apr 19, 2016 23:26
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LuiCypher posted:I've half a mind to start hacking together Deathwatch 2e based on the rules for DH2e and Only War. Although I think Rogue Trader needs a 2e first, Deathwatch needs one pretty badly since all the QoL improvements introduced from Black Crusade onward are too good to pass up. Besides, getting rid of the Rank system is never a bad idea. I would probably keep the requisition system in place, though. In dyne's Only war game dealing with time fuckery we thought it would be a cool idea to replace my Commissar (accidentally sent to a squad of seasoned karskin) with a Salamander's Librarian from five thousand years in the past. To do so I essentially ignored squad and solo modes, gave the marine all the starting talents and traits of the BC marines, and well, that was about it. We decided to keep the Deathwatch psyker rules and powers for now, as well as keep the rank system, since we couldn't be bothered enough to work out aptitudes. Not like it matters, since a DW marine is equal to like 12,000 exp or whatever, I am technically 8,000 exp over everyone else, so we are for now going to work on an exp debt system where I cannot purchase anything with exp until the other players amass 12,000 total exp. We'll see how long that lasts when after a few months all the guard have quick draw, rapid reload, high weapon skills and poo poo like lightning attack, and my marine is just standing there pushing avenger at psy rating 3 against a greater daemon or some poo poo.
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Apr 20, 2016 01:58
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Speaking of OW and high XP numbers; how do your groups deal with high level characters? Two campaigns later, we have: - A guy with his token sniper (high BS with a good long las, sharpshooter class, all the shooty talents, etc), - A guerilla with decent BS, high agility, extreme stealth (guerilla regiment, so everyone has starting stealth and chameoline cloaks). Has heightened senses, 50 perception and an auspex. Nothing escapes his elven eyes. - We used to have a sergeant but he felt underpowered so reworked the character a bit and rolled into a Sentry (free standard multilaser with bulging biceps / perma-brace and +10 to full auto instead of -10 because of stabilise talent). - Myself, I'm a Stormtrooper that obtained Defence as an aptitude so I got toughness + defence. I'm a very mobile tank, although my damage is not so amazing compared to the other party members (despite the 7 pen hotshot lasgun). I compensate with utility and missile launchers for anti-tank duty. - Arguably our most balanced character is the melee psyker. He tends to roll perils, so he is high risk, high reward and absolutely hilarious. How do you create challenging encounters around this? A lot of enemies sounds like drawn-out combat, a few tough targets like nobs are trivial with the damage output of the multilaser and sniper. Do you guys throw a lot of support units into the fight that try and disable/hinder the PCs? Psykers? Ambushes? We certainly don't want to put in a lot of "if he hits you you're dead" enemies, nor stuff like Eldar Harlequins "i can dance all day good luck getting past my dodging" to create a challenge.
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Apr 20, 2016 08:52
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Tias posted:Shiiiet, is there no unpleasantness not hidden in the rifts of Hecaton? Your posting.
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Apr 20, 2016 08:56
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GM prerogatives go a long way. Perhaps the enemy can disable bionics and auspex, perhaps the enemy is an extremely talented trapper/fortification faction (rogue Catachans, Iron Warriors, space kobolds come to mind) that the players have to dig out of their hole, or maybe the enemy are just lucky with perceptive guys who can lay fire on the sniper and play catch with the guerilla. Remember that the Imperial Guard is a shithole with heartless officers who'll gladly throw the PCs into hot water if they think it will benefit them in any way at all. The squad keeps surviving, so it's time to up the stakes. MaliciousOnion posted:Your posting. Head critical.. a massive burn melts off.. my face 
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Apr 20, 2016 08:59
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Iceshade posted:Speaking of OW and high XP numbers; how do your groups deal with high level characters? Two campaigns later, we have: Have challenges that can't be solved by shooting/stabbing, while combat is happening. Force players to split their attention. Tell them they need to take someone alive, then have that someone turn out to be a homicidal dreadnought. They have to stop an entire tide of [xenos] by destroying a bridge, but are out of explosives. Don't exactly handicap them (e.g. taking away their guns) but make them get creative.
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Apr 20, 2016 09:06
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OW is tough to balance for High XP Pcs, my Only War is having the same problem, which is why we are putting our normal PCs on a bench for awhile to make some FNGs that will most likely die. It doesn't help that i'm a Psy Rating 6 Psyker with over 80 Willpower that always unfetters and never rolls doubles. Unsurprisingly my GM has been targeting me more as of late in regards to Baneblade cannons.
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Apr 20, 2016 11:07
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