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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:NASA still has a couple of B-57s heavily modified to do meteorological poo poo. Ah, cool the WB-57F version with the HUGE wings, didn't realize there were are few of those left flying.
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Apr 19, 2016 21:39
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Cyrano4747 posted:Did you see how badass Alexander's pike dudes were? I mean, they conquered the loving world, and as I'm sure Heygal will chime in to remind everyone the pike is the best, most superior weapon ever devised. Now, imagine how much MORE effective Alexander could have been if his pike guys were also superior English longbowmen. But what if you, like, fired the pike out of the longbow? Woah, man.
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Apr 19, 2016 21:42
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more news from the country where it's normal to sue people for insulting other people http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/15/angela-merkel-agrees-prosecution-comedian-erdogan-poem
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Apr 19, 2016 21:57
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HEY GAL posted:more news from the country where it's normal to sue people for insulting other people ffs
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Apr 19, 2016 21:59
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if i call archange1 a cocksucker, can he sue me over the internet
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Apr 19, 2016 22:00
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HEY GAL posted:if i call archange1 a cocksucker, can he sue me over the internet is he organ or representative of foreign state?
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Apr 19, 2016 22:02
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Zamboni Apocalypse posted:Wikipedia only have the one comparison picture, but I have another that's a B-17, B-47 and the Big Stick IIRC. (No access to imagehosts at work. Here's one I found for mah blog post:  That's ten years of strategic bomber development. bewbies posted:good stuff on things Thanks for the detailed reply! I do see what you mean about cost/benefit analysis that could have been done at the time (somewhere while browsing through your posts you mentioned something like the US submarine fleet costing something like a tenth of the development costs of the B-29, which is pretty conclusive all by itself.) I also had no idea about operation Starvation being so effective - Good thing the Germans never figured stuff like this out. I also see your point on the B-36; had the USAF been smart, I think they would have just kept the original order of 100 and left it at that. I re-read my old post, and it is sort of bizarre that the variant of it that was an afterthought - the RB-36 - is the one that got the most operational use. I also have a sneaking suspicion that the physically gigantic H-bombs were a contributing factor as to why they kept the BiG 36 in production. I knew that the early B-36s were kind of a mess from a production perspective; didn't know their defensive turrets were such a mess. Do you know why that was? I assumed all the big challenges would have been worked out with the B-29. (For those that don't know - the B-36 had many defensive turrets that hid behind hatches and popped up for deployment, like something out of a 80s cartoon.) Also how annoying is this - I just found this book, which is all about the B-36. Why could I have not found you a year ago?!
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Apr 19, 2016 22:02
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HEY GAL posted:if i call archange1 a cocksucker, can he sue me over the internet Sue me irl Hogge Wild posted:is he head of state? No, that is an extra law.
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Apr 19, 2016 22:03
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Well that's going on the pile of books I haven't read yet next to Magnesium Overcast.Hogge Wild posted:is he organ or representative of foreign state? More like a foreign state's organ, am I right?
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Apr 19, 2016 22:08
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About the whole strategic bombing campaign thing: one of my favorite books looking into the subject is Jonathan Glover's "Humanity: A Moral History of the Twentieth Century." Glover has chapters about strategic bombing and the A-bombs, and he generally considers these to be a result of how human organization works. When everyone had been ripping the Douhet bong for a while and pre-ww2, considered strategic bombing to be an essential cornerstone of the coming war, there's not gonna be a point where the guys in charge of a big organization go "well, I guess we are useless so we should be shut down." By that time you have spent a lot of effort and money to get a big organization (or project) going , it's always far easier to use the organization for whatever purpose it had been invented (even if it doesn't work) than to not use it. Especially when the organization is probably run by guys who are really good at coming up with their own benchmarks to prove that their poo poo works, even if it doesn't.
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Apr 19, 2016 22:08
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Hogge Wild posted:is he organ or representative of foreign state?
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Apr 19, 2016 22:09
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I give you: AIRPOWER What's the thing in the back right that looks like a Space Shuttle with propellers?
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Apr 19, 2016 22:12
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chitoryu12 posted:What's the thing in the back right that looks like a Space Shuttle with propellers? C-124 Globemaster II
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Apr 19, 2016 22:18
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Kemper Boyd posted:About the whole strategic bombing campaign thing: one of my favorite books looking into the subject is Jonathan Glover's "Humanity: A Moral History of the Twentieth Century." How often do people ask "is my job necessary" rather than "how do I do my job better" anyway? That seems like the sort of thing that gets ingrained in people early no matter what they do.
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Apr 19, 2016 22:18
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I give you: AIRPOWER What's that little fellow in the center, right behind the Delta Dagger?
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Apr 19, 2016 22:32
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Regarding long-rear end French bayonetsHogge Wild posted:I really want to see pics of these. Here y'go. Stumbled across this a few days ago while trawling tumblrs for interesting images.
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Apr 19, 2016 22:44
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PittTheElder posted:What's that little fellow in the center, right behind the Delta Dagger? A Cessna!
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Apr 19, 2016 22:44
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I give you: AIRPOWER  
FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 22:55
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HEY GAL posted:some english idiot thought of giving longbow archers pikes as well, is that dumb enough for you? It was worse than that. He wanted to tie the pike and bow together so they could use both at once. https://leatherworkingreverendsmusings.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/the-double-armed-man/
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Apr 19, 2016 23:03
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Nebakenezzer posted:Here's one I found for mah blog post: Yay, *that* one I don't have! Ah, there's the one - I was wrong: B-36, -52, -47.
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Apr 19, 2016 23:03
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loving  Inadvertent airplane faces are the best
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Apr 19, 2016 23:11
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Cyrano4747 posted:Inadvertent airplane faces 
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Apr 19, 2016 23:13
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With that fat belly it's really the plane that best represents the US.
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Apr 19, 2016 23:18
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Cyrano4747 posted:loving The best part is that there's all this little poo poo like pulled engines and parasite craft around that area so you get pictures of this B-36 wing being absolutely loving floored at all this military hardware in this building:  OH gently caress IS THAT A BOMB OVER THERE Ah yes the J-420, a fine craft e: intentional missile faces are cool too: 
FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 23:23
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Zamboni Apocalypse posted:Regarding long-rear end French bayonets Here is vastly more information than a human could possibly want on the subject of the bayonets I mentioned earlier, the French "Yataghan Style" bayonet. http://www.old-smithy.info/bayonets/HTNL%20DOCUMNETS/yataghan%20models.htm  So that up there is the OG French Mle. 1840 bayonet. It's a sword type weapon they picked up to give the musket and bayonet enough reach to properly fend off cavalry and to give a proper sword type weapon if needed. Cyrano4747 posted:loving 
xthetenth fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 23:33
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Nebakenezzer posted:I knew that the early B-36s were kind of a mess from a production perspective; didn't know their defensive turrets were such a mess. Do you know why that was? I assumed all the big challenges would have been worked out with the B-29. (For those that don't know - the B-36 had many defensive turrets that hid behind hatches and popped up for deployment, like something out of a 80s cartoon.) They were basically really, really complex analog computers that had all kinds of dials and settings and knobs and poo poo that 1) no one really knew how to use, 2) they didn't have enough ammo to learn how to use it, and 3) it probably didn't work anyway, even if they'd had the ammo. The first two were your basic run of the mill procurement issues, the last may or may not have been solvable had they had the time and resources. The defensive system on the B-29 was seriously one of the most complex computers on the planet when it was developed, it was largely comparable to a battleship's fire control computer (which was probably the most complex in the world at the time). Here's a pic of the B-29's gunsight:  The B-36's was similar but even more complex, they were both done by GE who put their best and brightest on the task...and they figured out a system that was a technological marvel but really wasn't all that more effective than "guy just holding the gun and pointing it at things" that had worked quite well on the B-17 and -24. Here's a cool article and video about it, that poo poo is impressive even today. quote:I also see your point on the B-36; had the USAF been smart, I think they would have just kept the original order of 100 and left it at that. I re-read my old post, and it is sort of bizarre that the variant of it that was an afterthought - the RB-36 - is the one that got the most operational use. It really was super cool, it was basically a U-2 before the U-2 was a thing. Again it probably wasn't worth the development cost but it did give some useful service and some killer anecdotes so it was at least better than a lot of defense megaprojects. bewbies fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 23:37
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Tomn posted:Question about the First Opium War: When the British went into it, were they fully aware of the power disparity between them and the Qing Dynasty? I.E. Did they go in entirely confident that more advanced weapons and technology would overwhelm the Chinese, or were there debates about how they were crazy to take on such a large country? For that matter, were there any notable Chinese government officials who believed that the Europeans were more formidable than they appeared? It was a relatively low risk operation for the British in that worst case scenario they have to settle for smuggling opium illegally- it's not like a fleet of junks shows up on the Thames if Britain loses the war. The Chinese weren't viewing it as an existential struggle either, it was a case of rowdy foreign merchants who need a firm hand to be brought back to their proper place. Conventional wisdom on both sides was that Britain had overwhelming superiority on water, and schemes such as haphazardly sending fireships or walking underwater using Daoist breathing techniques didn't do much to close the gap. The British stuck close to the sea and seized coastal islands both to serve as staging points and bargaining chips for an eventual settlement. The Chinese expected to do much better once they got to fight a proper land battle and it, um, didn't work out that way. I think everyone was surprised at just what a shitshow the Chinese army turned out to be at every level. Commanders did stuff like delaying an assault for months while waiting for better astrological conditions, and generally lied their asses off when the court asked for reports that little skirmish with the hairy foreigners was going. Even negotiating the end to the war was a total mess that eventually got delegated to some rando with basically no official position. At the time, the first reaction of many was that China must have been stabbed in the back*, and merchants and others who had had business with foreigners were scapegoated as traitors. This reached a fever pitch in Zhenjiang, where commander Hailing went on a crazy witchhunt for fifth columnists. This was especially upsetting to the civilian residents, as scores of bona fide Chinese people were being executed for allegedly betraying China to foreigners- by foreigners in the form of the Manchu bannermen. The British were viewed almost as liberators when they took the city, leading to much awkwardness for the officials who has to figure out how to spin the incident. So long story short, everyone in charge tries really hard to point fingers at everyone else and china doesn't really make a concerted effort to close the technological or training gap after the first war. It isn't until the Tongzhi period that western style modernization is seriously attempted, but that doesn't really work out either as the Sino-French and Sino-Japanese wars will show. *Somebody else want to talk about the absurd bullshit surrounding Sanyuanli? I just can't even.
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Apr 20, 2016 01:37
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P-Mack posted:Commanders did stuff like delaying an assault for months while waiting for better astrological conditions HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Apr 20, 2016 |
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Apr 20, 2016 01:38
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HEY GAL posted:hosed up if true Yeah I can't imagine what kind of military incompetents would make major decisions based on something like astrology.
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Apr 20, 2016 02:54
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I know there's the whole "cultural context" and "product of the times" recursive reasons for it, but I'm still just totally  that people never really sat down and went "well... that was clearly bollocks" and just stopped bothering with astrology after a blatantly false prediction.
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Apr 20, 2016 03:30
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SeanBeansShako posted:Kind of funny in the middle of a Trench Raid to suddenly grow a conscious on what is a humane killing weapon and what isn't too. Remember when Barthas and his friends freak out after they are equipped with cutlasses right before a trench raid? It could happen.
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Apr 20, 2016 03:37
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Arquinsiel posted:I know there's the whole "cultural context" and "product of the times" recursive reasons for it, but I'm still just totally quote:Pulcher, the senior consul, then decided to launch a surprise attack on the harbour of Drepana, where the defiant ships were garrisoned. The fleet sailed north from Lilybaeum in a moonless night. Carthaginian scouts did not spot the Roman ships but low visibility conditions compromised the battle formation. When they reached Drepana at sunrise, the fleet was scattered in a long, disorganized line with Pulcher's ship in the rear. Punic scouts saw the clumsy approach and the advantage of surprise was lost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Drepana
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Apr 20, 2016 03:43
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Arquinsiel posted:I know there's the whole "cultural context" and "product of the times" recursive reasons for it, but I'm still just totally Prester Jane's got a thread on authoritarians (like religious fundamentalists, sovereign citizens and other tax protesters, paranoid militia, etc.) that talks about things like this. It's not the exact same context, but it does talk about what happens in these groups when things don't go as planned. Something fucks up? Don't worry, it doesn't mean you were wrong in your beliefs! It just means that some convenient scapegoat was responsible for your failure! Maybe Friar Joshua didn't pray hard enough out of everyone in the group, or Wilhelm in your tent is bad luck and you had him around when a prediction was made. Either way, you cast out whoever you need to cast out or otherwise find something to blame it on and keep on going.
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Apr 20, 2016 03:47
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chitoryu12 posted:Prester Jane's got a thread on authoritarians (like religious fundamentalists, sovereign citizens and other tax protesters, paranoid militia, etc.) that talks about things like this. It's not the exact same context, but it does talk about what happens in these groups when things don't go as planned. Besides, it's a more supple and complicated thing than the various conspiracy theories PJ's subjects let dominate their lives. The most introspective astrologers will say that the stars only determine personality/life path/health tendencies, not dictate word-for-word fate, and in tracking down those tendencies in their clients they end up sounding a lot like therapists.
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Apr 20, 2016 04:04
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Arquinsiel posted:I know there's the whole "cultural context" and "product of the times" recursive reasons for it, but I'm still just totally edit: Here's a good one--you're tired, right? i mean, right now. Perhaps modern life has left toxins in your body. Nobody was like this in the past, when things were natural and more wholesome. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Apr 20, 2016 |
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Apr 20, 2016 04:06
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Arquinsiel posted:I know there's the whole "cultural context" and "product of the times" recursive reasons for it, but I'm still just totally I'm still just totally that people never really sat down and went "well... that was clearly bollocks" and just stopped bothering with economics after a blatantly false prediction.
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Apr 20, 2016 04:12
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chitoryu12 posted:Prester Jane's got a thread on authoritarians (like religious fundamentalists, sovereign citizens and other tax protesters, paranoid militia, etc.) that talks about things like this. It's not the exact same context, but it does talk about what happens in these groups when things don't go as planned. Do you have a link?
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Apr 20, 2016 04:16
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HEY GAL posted:Most of these guys aren't authoritarians in her sense, and most of them aren't looking for an ironclad thing that'll explain everything. (That might be more about the witchcraft panics?) According to one book i read on early modern astrology, it's kind of like economics. Some people absolutely believe in it, some people absolutely disbelieve, most people are somewhere in between. People make fun of its practitioners, but governments will still pay a lot of money to their pet ones. There are different schools of thought, and you can get a degree in any one of them you please, but certain colleges have certain trends and will crowd anyone else out of faculty positions. And it's good at some predictions and absolutely poo poo at predicting things in different areas. and so on. I think a lot of it can be traced to a general lack of confidence. They didn't have a lot of facts to go on since scouting and communications were rather iffy. Just going with your own gut is pretty risky, as you personally take all the blame if it goes wrong. Consulting an oracle of some sort gives you some cover to make it look like it wasn't all your idea. Everybody naturally wants to dodge responsibility for decisions. As long as the people who matter think astrology/omens/whatever is a legit source of advice, following it is a good way to avoid recriminations after.
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Apr 20, 2016 04:21
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sullat posted:Remember when Barthas and his friends freak out after they are equipped with cutlasses right before a trench raid? It could happen. I'd take a cutlass over one of those nasty improvised trench weapons which are essential cudgels wrapped lovingly with barbed wire.
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Apr 20, 2016 04:23
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chitoryu12 posted:Prester Jane's got a thread on authoritarians (like religious fundamentalists, sovereign citizens and other tax protesters, paranoid militia, etc.) that talks about things like this. It's not the exact same context, but it does talk about what happens in these groups when things don't go as planned. HEY GAL posted:have you ever seen a germ? sat down and grabbed one, i mean. The "recursive" bit is how my problem with these concepts are the same reasons they believe them  Hargrimm posted:I'm still just totally 
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