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Slugworth posted:Tezzor's post about the prequel commentary was profoundly boring compared to any Cnut post about the prequels. Nonfiction is often less interesting than fantasy.
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Apr 22, 2016 16:37
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Tezzor posted:No, there's plenty new, as I said. For Star Wars and cinema in general? How about the first Star Wars film and the first total blockbuster to have a black man and woman as its leads? "First total blockbuster?" I doubt that's true, and it doesn't impact the movie itself much. It's certainly a progressive decision, and they're fine in their roles, but that's about it. quote:Even if there weren't anything new in there, "newness" is not some be-all-end-all, except among the kind of pretentious turds for whom a movie's quality is predicated on whether or not one can provide an "interesting reading" about it So what new is there in the movie to justify it being made and released? Some sense of "victory" over the prequels (hence "Star Wars is good again")? You can just watch the OT for the exact same effect. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Apr 22, 2016 |
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Apr 22, 2016 16:38
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So what new is there in the movie to justify it being made and released? Quality; characters, stories, actors, contexts and audiences.
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Apr 22, 2016 16:40
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The Kingfish posted:Tezzor is the wang to SuperMechagodzilla's win. I guess, if you want to focus on Tezzor's wang. He's not really my type.
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Apr 22, 2016 16:41
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The prequels are good and I would wager that most people who think so don't actively hate TFA; it's just that it's defining characteristic is how uncontroversial it is.
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Apr 22, 2016 16:42
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Phylodox posted:I guess, if you want to focus on Tezzor's wang. He's not really my type.
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Apr 22, 2016 16:43
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Neurolimal posted:This is reliant on the theory that Luke is her father, though. I don't think its' fair to critique the movie for something with strenuous implication at best. It's a weak arc no matter what it's supposed to be, because Rey is such a thinly sketched character who isn't given very strong or believable motivations for what she does. What past is Rey even reliving? We don't know. We don't know a drat thing about Rey's past, or why the prospect of returning to it is so appealing that it makes the absolute desolation and misery of staying on Jakku worth it to her. We don't know why Rey ends determined and ready to become a Jedi, because we don't actually know anything about Rey, or anything that would make the prospect of being a Jedi meaningful or attractive to her. The actual character work in this movie--that is, anything other than surface likability attributable mainly to the well-cast actors--is just plain poor. This movie was hastily written from basically scratch in a matter of a few months to hit an imposed deadline, and it really, really, really shows.
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Apr 22, 2016 16:43
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Tezzor posted:Quality; characters, stories, actors, contexts and audiences. It doesn't do anything better than ANH or ESB do. Once you tire of the presentation, there's nothing more there. Danger posted:The prequels are good and I would wager that most people who think so don't actively hate TFA; it's just that it's defining characteristic is how uncontroversial it is. TFA boldly moves from the saturday morning cartoon conflict of "Rebels vs. Evil Authority" to the untested ground of "Good Army vs Evil Army". BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Apr 22, 2016 |
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Apr 22, 2016 16:43
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Danger posted:The prequels are good and I would wager that most people who think so don't actively hate TFA; it's just that it's defining characteristic is how uncontroversial it is. I don't hate TFA, in the sense that I don't think it's an abomination, and there are undeniably aspects of it that are well-executed. I kind of expect more than that, though. That's like the bare minimum I would have expected from Star Wars: Episode VII from legendary screenwriter Lawrence Kasdan and renowned filmmaker J.J. Abrams.
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Apr 22, 2016 16:45
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Cnut the Great posted:We don't know why Rey ends determined and ready to become a Jedi, because we don't actually know anything about Rey, or anything that would make the prospect of being a Jedi meaningful or attractive to her. What if she saw a lazer sword and had a bunch of midichlorians
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Apr 22, 2016 16:45
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*plays duel of fates and watches the battle*
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Apr 22, 2016 16:46
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Tezzor posted:Nonfiction is often less interesting than fantasy. This is makes me question you.
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Apr 22, 2016 16:46
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PBS Newshour posted:*plays duel of fates and watches the battle* i can literally point to a star wars fanfilm involving film students swinging lightsabers at each other that is better shot and gives me more reason to care about what is happening
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Apr 22, 2016 16:48
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Slugworth posted:I'm not convinced you know him well enough to make that call. Well, I never said I couldn't be convinced. 
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Apr 22, 2016 16:49
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Danger posted:The prequels are good and I would wager that most people who think so don't actively hate TFA; it's just that it's defining characteristic is how uncontroversial it is. I think this is an accurate statement. The prequels are fine and TFA is fine. Not amazing but not bad either. I feel the same way about ANH and RotJ. It seems to be only the most rabid fans of the OT that hate the prequels with such a passion. Star Wars is a series of decent films, ESB being the one and only standout.
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Apr 22, 2016 16:49
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Basebf555 posted:I think this is an accurate statement. The prequels are fine and TFA is fine. Not amazing but not bad either. I feel the same way about ANH and RotJ. It seems to be only the most rabid fans of the OT that hate the prequels with such a passion. The prequels are absolute poo poo on every level except the soundtrack, some of the visual effects, and being mostly written in a human language
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Apr 22, 2016 16:51
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Cnut the Great posted:We don't know a drat thing about Rey's past, or why the prospect of returning to it is so appealing that it makes the absolute desolation and misery of staying on Jakku worth it to her. We don't know why Rey ends determined and ready to become a Jedi, because we don't actually know anything about Rey, or anything that would make the prospect of being a Jedi meaningful or attractive to her. Rey was waiting for her family. She is overly attached to people that abandoned her. She went to Luke because she just awakened the Force and is some mix of curious and afraid about it, as well as confronted by the reality that she has a NEW family to protect (Finn) from some nutjob named Kylo Ren...who also happens to use the Force. Her face when she holds out the saber to Luke is by no means a "let's go" face, it's a terrified face.
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Apr 22, 2016 16:52
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Tezzor posted:The prequels are absolute poo poo on every level except the soundtrack, some of the visual effects, and being mostly written in a human language I'm aware that you feel this way, thanks for reiterating it though.
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Apr 22, 2016 16:55
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The hilariously lunatic hatred the prequels continue to inspire after years and years is enough to justify their existence.
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Apr 22, 2016 16:55
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I would have expected a better manifesto after two months' preparation time.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:00
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The hilariously lunatic hatred the prequels continue to inspire after years and years is enough to justify their existence. i'm afraid this post does not say anything new and therefore should never have been made. i'm so sorry
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Apr 22, 2016 17:00
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Such as? I don't think I've missed anything after I started posting. I don't have the name of every person with a reading down, so I'l just quote mine: In continuing the theme of slavery from prior films: quote:It's not 'done away with', progress is made. Droids are free, but there still exist people trying to enslave them, and they still work their old positions. Star Wars protagonists just don't tolerate it in the same way older protagonists did. Neurolimal posted:What aspect of the movie is positive of slavery or depicts protagonists engaging in or supporting slavery? It's notable that, in a star wars film, we are never shown instances of droids being abused or treated as a lesser race being tolerated, the audience insert even trusts his life to a tiny droid. We get the first example of a droid retiring in Star Wars history Neurolimal posted:Humans go out of their way to prevent a droid from being enslaved, droids are not scrapped for being suboptimal (in the PT droids are constantly scrapped for newer war machines, in the NT a diplomat is not only outdated but can't even shake hands with communicatees, he gets a new arm and is provided a senior position in the Resistance), droids are allowed to do non-servile things like take naps or relax in bars. Neurolimal posted:
There's direct comparisons between BB8 and Unkar, to Freemen and slave reclaimers, with Rey acting as a sympathetic worker who chooses to protect a fellow downtrodden member than to not-starve. Slavery in Star Wars has progressed to a less explored territory; the integration of slaves into free society, and those that refuse to recognize it. One of the biggest aspects of the Republic in TFA is its fair treatment of droids, and First Order, just as the Empire and Trade Federation before it (KKK, Independent South, Plantation owners), does not treat droids as equal members of its society. On Starkiller: Neurolimal posted:How does your belief that Starkiller is meant to be imposing, with the fact that the resistance was going to specifically have a weapon to stop death stars, the base taking up around 10 minutes of film, and the fact that three people die to stop Starkiller? Neurolimal posted:TFA is primarily about the generational shift and millenials. The starkiller sequence is about the new generation decisively trouncing old-generation ideas and tactics. Conservatives blow up the liberal-controlled white house, then the leftists usurp the conservatives Additionally, Starkiller continues the themes of the original trilogy, with a numerically weak guerilla force defeating the polished war machines of the imperialist enemies. They literally Shock and Awe the Republic, and the resistance members are not dissipated. on Jakku interaction: Neurolimal posted:Their lack of interesting interaction is in itself an interesting interaction. In accordance with Rey's life mirroring that of reality's youth, Jakku itself represents the uncaring routine-focused society. Nobody has time to save a droid, nobody has time to help each other, nobody has time for anybody. Actual american culture is represented better in this way than having Rey sit with other scavengers go "Boy, it sure is BORING around here! And whats the deal with these rations?!?" It's a rather brilliant bit of storytelling that comes from working around limitations; instead of halfassing social interactions in the already crowded timeframe of the movie and Jakku in particular, the film instead chooses to leave Jakku socially barren, which in turn makes it quite representative of the reality of american society (especially among the impoverished, speaking from experience). On expectations: quote:
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TFA succeeds by appealing to both OT and PT fans by referencing both and combining the stylistic and developmental characteristics of both. It also primes OT fans to accept new, different things by directly relating them to the OT films ("more of the same") while growing into its own image by the end. A lot of this is skin-deep skimming of the last 3 pages of my posts, There's way more (I didn't even get to the Cantina, which I loved and wrote a shitload of words about WRT just one pair of figures), and there's other (far better written) readings from other people all throughout the thread. I think it mainly comes down to preference in terms of what topics you enjoy reading into; those more interested in historical moments and abstract concepts aren't likely to immediately enjoy TFA (especially if they go in having decided it's 'okay'), while those interested in reading into what films say about their period in time and modern day commentary will enjoy TFA. I imagine Verhooven would be more appreciative of the film than Ken Burns.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:05
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According to a Reddit post Rey is Anakin re-incarnated through a virgin birth from one of Luke's dead students. I don't know if I love it - or hate it.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:05
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It's frustrating because TFA has a drat solid presentation. It's a very entertaining and watchable film. Unfortunately it comes at the expense of being an indisputable rehash of it's predecessors. The prequels have the opposite problem. They have more nuance and are markedly different than anything before it but the presentation is so dull that they're a chore to sit through. All the racist caricatures in TPM make it difficult to watch. At least for me.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:06
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Commentary track: Natalie Portman says over Anakin's breakdown that Padme is attracted to Anakin's bad boy side. Bitch he's not a cool pot dealer on a motorcycle. He's screaming about much he hates the people he murdered
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Apr 22, 2016 17:07
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Cnut the Great posted:This movie was hastily written from basically scratch in a matter of a few months to hit an imposed deadline, and it really, really, really shows. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I personally feel that of the three 'worldbuilding' first episodes (A New Hope, The Phantom Menace, The Force Awakens) TFA is easily the most complete and substantial. Without their followups ANH and TPM are a lot weaker overall than as part of the whole. And if you agree with that then it's not a wild idea to wait for the completion of the NT to decide if TFA is really as vapid as you believe.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:08
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Stacks posted:It's frustrating because TFA has a drat solid presentation. It's a very entertaining and watchable film. Unfortunately it comes at the expense of being an indisputable rehash of it's predecessors. The prequels have the opposite problem. They have more nuance and are markedly different than anything before it but the presentation is so dull that they're a chore to sit through. All the racist caricatures in TPM make it difficult to watch. At least for me. There's no nuance in the prequels. You've bought into a very great and terrible lie, one decisively debunked by yours truly.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I would have expected a better manifesto after two months' preparation time. I mean, it's not a bad demonstration that Lucas is some kind of mustache-twirling deceiver.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:11
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Tezzor posted:Commentary track: Natalie Portman says over Anakin's breakdown that Padme is attracted to Anakin's bad boy side. Bitch he's not a cool pot dealer on a motorcycle. He's screaming about much he hates the people he murdered You know who was the baddest boy? Yeah, that's right.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:11
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RBA Starblade posted:You know who was the baddest boy? Yeah, that's right. Judas Iscariot. 
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Apr 22, 2016 17:12
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Tezzor posted:Commentary track: Natalie Portman says over Anakin's breakdown that Padme is attracted to Anakin's bad boy side. Bitch he's not a cool pot dealer on a motorcycle. He's screaming about much he hates the people he murdered *listens to Anakin describe a mass murder he just committed "oh he's such a rebel!"
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Apr 22, 2016 17:14
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Ferrinus posted:I mean, it's not a bad demonstration that Lucas is some kind of mustache-twirling deceiver. George Lucas did not try to deceive anyone. He and everyone else is absolutely clear that he attempted to make a film with clear and unambiguous moral black and white, one that paid no attention to any of the ethical questions of his dumb PG-friendly ideas of clone soldiers or child Jedi. The only deception is from people telling us that all these moral greys, dickhead idiot characters and grim undertones were a part of his plan at all and evidence of his genius instead of another of his failings.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:16
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Speaking of commentary tracks, I cant believe they had the balls to give the film a home release without -any- commentary tracks. Is that a new thing for Blu-rays? I admittedly dont own many standard edition Blu-Rays so I wouldn't know. I understand that its common practice to withhold features for the Super Special Complete Edition, but that's just ridiculous.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:17
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I think they (correctly) assume nobody gives a poo poo anymore about stuff like that, but it should be a crime not to have a DVD commentary on a big release, in my opinion.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:18
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The problem is, like I said previously, that this is all really dull. A lot of it's ancillary in the movie, like the droid slavery. The movie is primarily about three people (Finn, Rey, and Ren) stumbling their way into traditional archetypes. It's about complexities being eliminated. The viillains are more powerful than the heroes? That's not exactly a thrilling ideological statement. Jakku is socially barren? It actually isn't, the characters interact a lot, they just don't do anything interesting there. The movie is "about Star Wars"? That's just cultural navel-gazing. This isn't any fault of yours. The movie is just kind of boring despite being competently made. It softens anything controversial, like the idea of a heroic stormtrooper or a bratty young Darth Vader. ANH, in comparison, is a movie that's just exciting. It crackles with tension. The rebel ship being overtaken by the Star Destroyer, the last stand against the stormtrooper, the creepy inhabitants of Tatooine, teenage frustrations, being stopped by the police, Satan leering on the screen, Leia chewing out her rescuers, the trash compactor scene. It's fun as hell. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Apr 22, 2016 |
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Apr 22, 2016 17:20
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Tezzor posted:George Lucas did not try to deceive anyone. He and everyone else is absolutely clear that he attempted to make a film with clear and unambiguous moral black and white, one that paid no attention to any of the ethical questions of his dumb PG-friendly ideas of clone soldiers or child Jedi. The only deception is from people telling us that all these moral greys, dickhead idiot characters and grim undertones were a part of his plan at all and evidence of his genius instead of another of his failings. You clearly believe him to have tricked you or attempted to trick you, since according to you he has repeatedly disavowed the secret meanings present in his films.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:21
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Ferrinus posted:You clearly believe him to have tricked you or attempted to trick you, since you wrote a two page rant about his words supposedly conflicting with his movie. His words do not conflict with his movie. His words conflict with the interpretation of his movie by a handful of pretentious cretins
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Apr 22, 2016 17:22
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Neurolimal posted:Speaking of commentary tracks, I cant believe they had the balls to give the film a home release without -any- commentary tracks. Is that a new thing for Blu-rays? I admittedly dont own many standard edition Blu-Rays so I wouldn't know. Yep, wait for the full trilogy pack.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:25
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Jake Lloyd: Why are the engines in the front of the pod. You'll get a lot of sand and heat in your face from them. Why not put them in the back like Luke's ship. Me: You raise a good point the author did not consider, 9 year old
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Apr 22, 2016 17:26
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Tezzor posted:His words do not conflict with his movie. His words conflict with the interpretation of his movie by a handful of pretentious cretins You haven't made the slightest attempt to engage with or disprove anything prequel fans have said about the movie. We can only conclude that Lucas himself is lying to us. Also, you forgot the last period again.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:26
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