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many johnnys
May 17, 2015

Backhand posted:

Commander really isn't that bad. I agree that I've been reluctant to go up to Legendary, though.

I just made the switch!

and in light of last night's events when I was playing, I may have to make the switch back for now (especially with the upcoming dlc releasing soon)

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The Biggest Jerk
Nov 25, 2012
Once you've played Commander a couple of times, you realize how drat easy veteran is and can pretty much ironman veteran no problem. In commander once you're able to get past the first terror mission in good shape (takes some luck) and your first mimic beacon (second terror?), you're pretty much set.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

many johnnys posted:

and in light of last night's events when I was playing, I may have to make the switch back for now (especially with the upcoming dlc releasing soon)

Which DLC is releasing soon? I thought the next one was "Summer"...

many johnnys
May 17, 2015

Lockback posted:

Which DLC is releasing soon? I thought the next one was "Summer"...

I assumed the one with the Alien Lords is coming soon because of those screenshots people posted of their updated achievement lists. If the achievements are visible, the associated DLC can't be too far behind. I could be entirely mistaken but it makes sense to hold off until the content is ready.

DoctorTristan
Mar 11, 2006

I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave, like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?

Bakalakadaka posted:

Fun fact if your mandatory evacuation point is on a roof and the roof gets blown up you'll get a new one that's probably closer to you. My sample size is only two though.

You get a new one, but it's certainly not guaranteed to be closer. Even if it moves in a random direction it's still more likely than not to end up farther away.

I think this also happens if the original point gets covered in fire or acid.

many johnnys
May 17, 2015

DoctorTristan posted:

You get a new one, but it's certainly not guaranteed to be closer. Even if it moves in a random direction it's still more likely than not to end up farther away.

I think this also happens if the original point gets covered in fire or acid.

I had an evac point that was more-than-half covered in gas, and it stayed put. I think there were only two tiles that were not gassed. It was a pretty dark mission :/

Soonmot
Dec 19, 2002

Entrapta fucking loves robots




Grimey Drawer
So, I'm kind of terrible at winning the game. I can best my missions, without troops dying as long as I'm patient, but I needed that mod to add bars onto the dark avatar project because I simply cannot slow it down.

How do you upgrade the avenger/ explore the map/ ect without falling behind and getting overwhelmed?

Qtotonibudinibudet
Nov 7, 2011



Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki
Legendary seems too much like Marathon in EW. Commander doesn't really have any handicaps besides that weird miss streak thing that shouldn't come up outside the early game where your soldiers shoot like they're half blind.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Don't worry about falling behind in the avatar project. Focus on expanding your poo poo and training up dudes and getting yourself in a more survivable position. When the bars goes to the actual clock, there will be no more avatar progress, so feel free to game that motherfucker and then take down a facility, a codex, or the blacksite. Then as you get to doing better and better you can expand your networks even further to gain access to alien facilities. Again, let that clock run up and then use that grace period to get extra poo poo done, and then hit the next story mission or facility. There's also a mod I really like out there that only lets alien facilities generate Doom Clock pips. I don't think it particularly slows down the avatar project, but it lets you game the clock indefinitely. Mobile posting or I'd get you a link. I think it's Avatar Project Reworked or something.

many johnnys
May 17, 2015

Soonmot posted:

So, I'm kind of terrible at winning the game. I can best my missions, without troops dying as long as I'm patient, but I needed that mod to add bars onto the dark avatar project because I simply cannot slow it down.

How do you upgrade the avenger/ explore the map/ ect without falling behind and getting overwhelmed?

If you have the intel, then you want to continually expand your territory farther and farther. You'll need additional comms as well. I find it very helpful to have a workshop right beside a Power and Comm Relay structure. In my last game, my relay was too far away from Engineering, so I actually built a second one below the workshop rather than upgrade the first. Your contacts are the most valuable asset you have in pushing back against the avatar project. If there aren't any critical scans to do, build those radio towers and make those contacts so you can reach as far around the globe as possible. Spend some intel at the black market sure, but always have enough left over to expand further.

You know the Shadow Chamber is really good to have because of the recon info you get before each mission. It's sometimes a good idea to pause your research to do a Shadow Chamber project. I do this if I only have a dot or two remaining - hopefully the mission will be somewhere I have contact, or somewhere close.

Try to get access to at least one facility or plot mission, and then don't feel like you have to jump on it right away. When the bar is full and it goes "Alien Victory Imminent", you still get an additional 14 (on classic) or 20 (on normal) days before you lose the game. It's common for players to "ride the clock" and assault the facility later on. I usually wait until there's 5-7 days left on the clock before blowing the facility up. Leave the facilities standing until then, and the more facilities you have access to, the safer you are!

If you have a facility or alien site you can assault, and the doom clock isn't counting down the days to defeat, you are doing fine. In my last playthrough, I went into "Alien Victory Imminent" no less than four times. And then when I went on a sweep, I got the avatar gauge down to very low before there was nothing to do other than beat the game. There are lots of chances to push back against the counter if you don't outright ignore them. The doom clock is a resource/priority you need to manage like any other, no different from troops, supplies, weapon/armor levels, avenger expansions. Don't cheat yourself out of that by modding out the challenge.

Soonmot
Dec 19, 2002

Entrapta fucking loves robots




Grimey Drawer

SpookyLizard posted:

Don't worry about falling behind in the avatar project. Focus on expanding your poo poo and training up dudes and getting yourself in a more survivable position. When the bars goes to the actual clock, there will be no more avatar progress, so feel free to game that motherfucker and then take down a facility, a codex, or the blacksite. Then as you get to doing better and better you can expand your networks even further to gain access to alien facilities. Again, let that clock run up and then use that grace period to get extra poo poo done, and then hit the next story mission or facility. There's also a mod I really like out there that only lets alien facilities generate Doom Clock pips. I don't think it particularly slows down the avatar project, but it lets you game the clock indefinitely. Mobile posting or I'd get you a link. I think it's Avatar Project Reworked or something.

I'll have to check that one as it sounds better than my current. My avenger priorities are: gtc, psi lab, then communication hub and proving ground. In between I clear out debris towards that power coil for a new power room


Edit: Thanks, looks like not expanding fast enough is my biggest problem. I'm able to get strong enough to take those facilities before the count down starts, so I should be good.

Soonmot fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Apr 20, 2016

many johnnys
May 17, 2015

Soonmot posted:

I'll have to check that one as it sounds better than my current. My avenger priorities are: gtc, psi lab, then communication hub and proving ground. In between I clear out debris towards that power coil for a new power room

An early psi lab is awesome, but takes so much to get that it's no surprise you're falling behind in other categories.

My order nowadays is GTS > AWC > Power > Comms > Proving Grounds > Engineering in a good spot. Depending on the circumstances, I might go Engineering before Proving Grounds - by the time I get there, I've got enough Elerium Cores that it's fired up and churning out tech 24/7 for most of the rest of the game.

LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!

If I recall correctly, both the Shadow Chamber and an upgraded Psi Lab consume more power than the bonus you get for putting a power station on a coil, so that's what I try to do with my second coil. The first one obviously should be a power station.

Obviously only an option for an extremely lucky run if you're pushing for an early Lab, but I've never not been able to put the chamber on a coil.

many johnnys
May 17, 2015

A nice thing about the workshop is that putting an engineer in there effectively gives you two engineers back, as long as they're staffed beside the workshop (aka: the drones). If you go for a very early workshop, the drones can do more than staff adjacent facilities: they can also excavate adjacent areas and assist in building them. That's a good reason to build it in the center of row 2.

It doesn't have to be there though. Even if it's jammed in the corner, as long as it's adjacent to a power relay and a comm station, the workshop will be running at 100% efficiency with all four drones having a job to do. I like the center if possible though because once it's running I can expand much my base much faster.

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010

Getting a workshop in the 2nd row middle has been my strategy the last few games, and it worked like a champ.

a cow
May 6, 2007


friendship is magic
in a pony paradise
don't you judge me

many johnnys posted:

A nice thing about the workshop is that putting an engineer in there effectively gives you two engineers back, as long as they're staffed beside the workshop (aka: the drones).

Isn't that the entire point of the workshop, not just "a nice thing"?

many johnnys
May 17, 2015

a cow posted:

Isn't that the entire point of the workshop, not just "a nice thing"?

Yes, admittedly my post was more about the additional "they can also excavate and help build, not just staff" part and I worded that sentence poorly.

Soonmot
Dec 19, 2002

Entrapta fucking loves robots




Grimey Drawer

many johnnys posted:

Yes, admittedly my post was more about the additional "they can also excavate and help build, not just staff" part and I worded that sentence poorly.

Yeah, I did not know this. Going to prioritize workshop next run

many johnnys
May 17, 2015

Soonmot posted:

Yeah, I did not know this. Going to prioritize workshop next run

I prefer to save it until at least after power, but yeah it's a very good structure of you can afford it. Resources get a little tighter time wise and money wise while it's building but it's worth it.

Maluco Marinero
Jan 18, 2001

Damn that's a
fine elephant.
Hey all, some people expressed interest in my Guerrilla War mod a while back, well, I'm almost ready for playtesting on the basic idea, so if you're cool with whackadoo balance and reinforcements that won't quit, gimme yo steam ID and I'll link y'all the mod release. I'm just trying to playtest, work out bugs, get useful feedback, so that's why I'm not just opening the mod to the public.

Mr.Pibbleton
Feb 3, 2006

Aleuts rock, chummer.

Digirat posted:

I am finding Tactical Skyranger Escapes very handy to save people from being wounded. In a mission where the loot managed to fall in a field of poison, fire, and in view of a turret, I was able to get the loot on the last turn, grenade the turret and extract before the poison did any damage. It leaves you down a person for the rest of the mission but sometimes you can get away with it.

That's clever, I only used evacs to get the team out, but since there's just a cooldown, well I wish I'd thought of it!

monster on a stick
Apr 29, 2013
No Beagle stream tonight :smith:

So instead he posted the Live and Impossible base assault

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem

monster on a stick posted:

No Beagle stream tonight :smith:

So instead he posted the Live and Impossible base assault

Oh wow. That could seriously have gone up poo poo creek in a hurry. But it also shows what you can do with a late-game power squad. Even with some line-of-sight slipups, it didn't cost him too much...

Also a nice reminder of how good some of the quality-of-life changes in xcom 2 are.

monster on a stick
Apr 29, 2013

Jabor posted:

Oh wow. That could seriously have gone up poo poo creek in a hurry. But it also shows what you can do with a late-game power squad. Even with some line-of-sight slipups, it didn't cost him too much...

Also a nice reminder of how good some of the quality-of-life changes in xcom 2 are.

There's a LOS mod for LW/EW, which Beagle was using during his last few streams, but I'm not sure if it's compatible with b14.

PantsBandit
Oct 26, 2007

it is both a monkey and a boombox


Dr Christmas
Apr 24, 2010

Berninating the one percent,
Berninating the Wall St.
Berninating all the people
In their high rise penthouses!
🔥😱🔥🔫👴🏻
So it looks like just three new enemies. Since they're "rulers," I doubt you'll be facing too many. So I wonder how a whole new tier of weapons will fit into that.

Lunethex
Feb 4, 2013

Me llamo Sarah Brandolino, the eighth Castilian of this magnificent marriage.
Day 1 mod: all pods replaced with pods made entirely of rulers.

:suicide:

Maluco Marinero
Jan 18, 2001

Damn that's a
fine elephant.
I done me a video of the campaign start for Guerrilla War, it was pretty fun but I'm keen to work more on the balance so you don't feel like your only options are run away or kill everything, more suppression options, more items, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF8nedZ8K-k

Spiderfist Island
Feb 19, 2011

Maluco Marinero posted:

I done me a video of the campaign start for Guerrilla War, it was pretty fun but I'm keen to work more on the balance so you don't feel like your only options are run away or kill everything, more suppression options, more items, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF8nedZ8K-k

Just finished watching this– your mod really does change the play for a lot of missions, and it's pretty exciting. As a suggestion, if you want certain missions to last longer than they would normally then you could maybe turn off the Call Skyranger button until either the squad kills X aliens or an XCOM member is critical or dead.

As for alien bodies, maybe you could also buy them on the black market or pick them up from resistance cells through events? You'd probably want to increase the amount of Intel you get in the game's resource economy to counterbalance the greater need for it, in that case.

brakeless
Apr 11, 2011

Maluco Marinero posted:

I done me a video of the campaign start for Guerrilla War, it was pretty fun but I'm keen to work more on the balance so you don't feel like your only options are run away or kill everything, more suppression options, more items, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF8nedZ8K-k

Regarding the balancing of protect the device missions, here's a mod that scales the device hp throghout the game. Maybe you could use a similiar solution?

Maluco Marinero
Jan 18, 2001

Damn that's a
fine elephant.

brakeless posted:

Regarding the balancing of protect the device missions, here's a mod that scales the device hp throghout the game. Maybe you could use a similiar solution?

Yeah, definitely an option. I think one thing I'm thinking of doing is activating all pods by default... I want to try and kill the entire pod activation game I think, which would also mean they shoot on the device more than once a turn (like they did in one of the later turns in the video)

Spiderfist Island posted:

Just finished watching this– your mod really does change the play for a lot of missions, and it's pretty exciting. As a suggestion, if you want certain missions to last longer than they would normally then you could maybe turn off the Call Skyranger button until either the squad kills X aliens or an XCOM member is critical or dead.

As for alien bodies, maybe you could also buy them on the black market or pick them up from resistance cells through events? You'd probably want to increase the amount of Intel you get in the game's resource economy to counterbalance the greater need for it, in that case.

Yeah, I think by the time I'm done with it I'm going to make every mission pretty different. The ones that become the most interesting force protracted firefights by forcing lots of movement, such as the supply raid.

I think this will tie into tactical changes such as standard rifles being capable of light suppression, have to think more but basically there needs to be options that don't result in you losing a squad member because you didn't kill every enemy, which is the way tactical can work right now.

fspades
Jun 3, 2013

by R. Guyovich

Maluco Marinero posted:

I think this will tie into tactical changes such as standard rifles being capable of light suppression, have to think more but basically there needs to be options that don't result in you losing a squad member because you didn't kill every enemy, which is the way tactical can work right now.

Alternatively, change the strategy layer so that losing 1 or 2 soldiers in a mission is not a big deal. If getting experienced soldiers through other ways (esp. during the early game) was a bit easier and more reliable it would mitigate the downward spiral tendency the game currently has.

Maluco Marinero
Jan 18, 2001

Damn that's a
fine elephant.

fspades posted:

Alternatively, change the strategy layer so that losing 1 or 2 soldiers in a mission is not a big deal. If getting experienced soldiers through other ways (esp. during the early game) was a bit easier and more reliable it would mitigate the downward spiral tendency the game currently has.

Oh yeah, I'll be looking to mitigate that too, but if I want to throw bullshit levels of aliens at the player there needs to be ways to control the risk. Right now the amount of mitigating abilities is fairly sparse, whereas you have heaps of ways to kill things.

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

lol

RiotGearEpsilon
Jun 26, 2005
SHAVE ME FROM MY SHELF
does the shield do things

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

Apparently just a plain sword replacement

But Not Tonight
May 22, 2006

I could show you around the sights.

SynthOrange posted:

Apparently just a plain sword replacement

Yea, but does he bash dudes with it? If he does then this is good poo poo.

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

nope, same animations and slicing sound.

LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!

SynthOrange posted:

nope, same animations and slicing sound.

Also, it's not a broken, jagged bottle 0/5

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mormonpartyboat
Jan 14, 2015

by Reene

Maluco Marinero posted:

Oh yeah, I'll be looking to mitigate that too, but if I want to throw bullshit levels of aliens at the player there needs to be ways to control the risk. Right now the amount of mitigating abilities is fairly sparse, whereas you have heaps of ways to kill things.

Maybe make flashbangs and smoke both have +1 use by default?

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