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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So I picked up Frank Dikötter's Mao's Great Famine since it was on sale and I wasn't so familiar with the period. Yes, because all authors have it. That said, I've read two of Dikotter's books (though not Age of Openness) and I found them to be pretty objective, though obviously Mao was a pretty indefensible shitbag in a lot of ways. I didn't find the author's interpretation of anything to be unjustifiable.
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Apr 9, 2016 02:02
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So I picked up Frank Dikötter's Mao's Great Famine since it was on sale and I wasn't so familiar with the period. that's the one with a photograph of a starving child from a completely different unrelated famine on the front cover and a subtitle that calls it "China's greatest catastrophe" because i guess he forgot about the Taiping rebellion
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Apr 9, 2016 05:10
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A human heart posted:that's the one with a photograph of a starving child from a completely different unrelated famine on the front cover and a subtitle that calls it "China's greatest catastrophe" because i guess he forgot about the Taiping rebellion Not to judge or defend the author's biases (I don't know anything about the guy), but don't publishers get the lion's share of the input on a book's title and cover?
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Apr 9, 2016 06:25
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A human heart posted:that's the one with a photograph of a starving child from a completely different unrelated famine on the front cover and a subtitle that calls it "China's greatest catastrophe" because i guess he forgot about the Taiping rebellion Well thankfully I got a translation with a cheery-looking Mao on the cover.
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Apr 9, 2016 16:01
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dublish posted:Not to judge or defend the author's biases (I don't know anything about the guy), but don't publishers get the lion's share of the input on a book's title and cover? Keep in mind that A Human Heart is a poster who thinks Stalinism was awesome so....
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Apr 9, 2016 16:41
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smr posted:Keep in mind that A Human Heart is a poster who thinks Stalinism was awesome so.... Citation Needed
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Apr 10, 2016 04:02
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A human heart posted:that's the one with a photograph of a starving child from a completely different unrelated famine on the front cover and a subtitle that calls it "China's greatest catastrophe" because i guess he forgot about the Taiping rebellion There was this idiom about books and covers, feels really relevant right now but I just can't remember it...
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Apr 10, 2016 20:38
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Funny story, Dikötter's Mao's Great Famine is the subject of the OP of this very thread!
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Apr 11, 2016 17:25
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dublish posted:Not to judge or defend the author's biases (I don't know anything about the guy), but don't publishers get the lion's share of the input on a book's title and cover? My PhD advisor had "hitler" included prominently in the title of a book about the 50s because the publisher had data about books with hitler in the title selling better.
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Apr 11, 2016 18:01
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The Crusades: statistically one of HITLER's ancestors probably fought in them or something
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Apr 11, 2016 18:56
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One of the things we used to do in gradschool while drinking was try to figure out the optimal book title for maximum Borders sales. Usually it was something like "Hitler's Hidden Genocide: Occult Nazi sexual practices and Freemasonry in the Wehrmacht." Basically we would try to cram in 1) Hitler 2) Nazis 3) war crimes 4) Wehrmacht 5) implication that the thing is unknown or undiscovered 6)  Bonus points for squeezing in a popular secret society or the occult. It also works well as a rubric for crafting fake History Channel show titles.
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Apr 11, 2016 19:08
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An old, old publishing joke was that books about doctors, dogs, or Abe Lincoln always sold, so the single greatest best-seller in history would be titled "Lincoln's Doctor's Dog"
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Apr 11, 2016 19:21
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Half the shelf from which picked up Mao's Great Famine was about Nazis. It's always Nazis. There was a book about volunteers from my country in the SS. Cheap publishing house by the looks of it. I skipped straight to the epilogue, where the author began discussing how unfairly the SS volunteers were treated after the war due to the paranoia of leftists, and how we should appreciate all soldiers despite their cause. 
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Apr 11, 2016 19:30
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Half the shelf from which picked up Mao's Great Famine was about Nazis. It's always Nazis. gently caress, read up on some of the ones where the local SS emigrated en mass. Latvia is one I'm particularly familiar with through a friend - both his grandfathers were Latvian SS that ended up in the US - and that literature is rife with people talking about how awful it was that these patriots fighting for their country against communism lost everything and had to move to the US/Britain. The cold-war era stuff is especially egregious in this regard.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:59
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I am looking for things on the history of computers/hacking. I read The Innovators recently and I have read other books I can't remember the titles of, so suggest away. I'll take anything but I particularly enjoy the wild west 70s to early 90s era. All the stuff that inspired cyberpunk, more or less.
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Apr 12, 2016 13:07
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Half the shelf from which picked up Mao's Great Famine was about Nazis. It's always Nazis.
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Apr 12, 2016 14:12
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Grand Fromage posted:I am looking for things on the history of computers/hacking. I read The Innovators recently and I have read other books I can't remember the titles of, so suggest away. I'll take anything but I particularly enjoy the wild west 70s to early 90s era. All the stuff that inspired cyberpunk, more or less. For a real-life hacking story, I recommend The Cuckoo's Egg. It's pre-Web, but it's a very interesting story.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:50
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The Soul Of A New Machine - Kidder The Hacker Crackdown - Sterling The New Hacker's Dictionary - Steele and Raymond Hackers - Levy What The Dormouse Said - Markoff
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Apr 12, 2016 17:00
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nm I goofed
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Apr 12, 2016 20:20
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Finally got around to Charles C Mann's 1491. What a wonderful read. Good writing, and provides a really fair presentation of both sides of the population of the pre-Columbian Americas debate, while obviously favouring one side. I decided to check out some academic reviews of the book and they're surprisingly positive. I'd expect at least some major nitpicking about incorrect facts, dates, a misrepresentation of some data (well the geographers didn't disappoint but aside from that...) but there wasn't much of that at all. On to 1493!
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Apr 13, 2016 13:32
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Half the shelf from which picked up Mao's Great Famine was about Nazis. It's always Nazis. I can believe that poo poo. Most people who served/survived world war 2 are dying out. in another 20 years their will be none left. and once awful poo poo goes out of living memory, people start saying it wasnt so bad. examples people defending stalin and other long dead autocrats both left and right. Hitler is one of the few who is still taboo and even that is slowing going away.  Tekopo posted:Read the Myth of the Eastern Front. One of the chapters is how there is an entire industry of small publishers that print out tracts eulogizing and lionizing the SS. that book was published and written by holocaust deniers. then they talk endlessly about the real "holocaust" like Dresden and the soviets march through Germany in 1945. because the german didnt do nothing wrong.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:42
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For a minute I thought you were referring to myth of the eastern front there 
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Apr 13, 2016 23:37
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I can believe that poo poo. Most people who served/survived world war 2 are dying out. in another 20 years their will be none left. and once awful poo poo goes out of living memory, people start saying it wasnt so bad. examples people defending stalin and other long dead autocrats both left and right. Hitler is one of the few who is still taboo and even that is slowing going away. That always happens with distance though. It's fresh because it's so recent, but you can read any history of Alexander or Caesar's conquest or the Mongols or Tamerlane or hundreds of other dudes who are now looked at dispassionately and project back that people who were actually affected by it had the same disgust we feel about the idea of an account of Hitler that isn't purely negative. It's inevitable. I guarantee you centuries from now there'll be a history book talking about how Hitler was instrumental in bringing peace to the historically war-torn European nations. That's just how it works.
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Apr 14, 2016 08:49
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Since people were recommending a glenny book on Yugoslavia earlier, is this any good? http://www.amazon.com/The-Balkans-Nationalism-Powers-1804-1999/dp/0140233776
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Apr 15, 2016 23:23
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TheFallenEvincar posted:Since people were recommending a glenny book on Yugoslavia earlier, is this any good? I liked it, Glenny's a bit close to the topic but tries to remain objective. Be aware that there's a revised and expanded edition that carries this out to 2012 and is available as an e-book, too.
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Apr 18, 2016 17:01
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On this thread suggestion picked up The Civil War a narrative by Shelby Foote and it was a fantastic read. Are there any more historical books in the narrative style that would be recommended by you guys? Not too picky on the topic if it is as engaging as the Foote trilogy was.
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Apr 19, 2016 16:48
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I just watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs9w5bgtJC8 and it reminded me of how much I used to enjoy reading and learning about the Titanic when I was young. The main book I recall reading was A Night to Remember by Walter Lord. I was wondering if anybody had any recommendations for good books about the Titanic?
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Apr 20, 2016 23:39
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Grand Fromage posted:I am looking for things on the history of computers/hacking. I read The Innovators recently and I have read other books I can't remember the titles of, so suggest away. I'll take anything but I particularly enjoy the wild west 70s to early 90s era. All the stuff that inspired cyberpunk, more or less. "Considering the fact that Windows 95 hadn't even been released when federal agents finally caught up with the computer hacker Kevin Mitnick, one might assume his new memoir would be full of stale old tech-and-techniques that no one in 2011 could possibly care about. But as Mitnick makes clear here, don't jump to conclusions.... Ghost in the Wires reads like a contemporary über-geeky thriller....For those interested in computer history, "Ghost in the Wires" is a nostalgia trip to the quaint old days before hacking (and hackers) turned so malicious and financially motivated."
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Apr 21, 2016 00:03
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Grand Fromage posted:That always happens with distance though. It's fresh because it's so recent, but you can read any history of Alexander or Caesar's conquest or the Mongols or Tamerlane or hundreds of other dudes who are now looked at dispassionately and project back that people who were actually affected by it had the same disgust we feel about the idea of an account of Hitler that isn't purely negative. It's inevitable. I guarantee you centuries from now there'll be a history book talking about how Hitler was instrumental in bringing peace to the historically war-torn European nations. That's just how it works. true, but those people actually either conquered a hell of lot and kept it for long time, and or started long lasting empires. Hitler didnt do either. he held on to most of europe for 4-5 years, hosed up bad with Russia, killed 12 million people because they were the wrong religion/ethinicity and then blew his brains out cursing everyone. He didnt enact any long lasting moral laws or codes. He might be treated "softer" but not by much. they only way he will get fully redeemed is if europe falls under the far right.
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Apr 22, 2016 18:17
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The same could be said of the confederacy and there is no end to their apologists.
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Apr 23, 2016 02:33
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Dapper_Swindler posted:true, but those people actually either conquered a hell of lot and kept it for long time, and or started long lasting empires. Hitler didnt do either. he held on to most of europe for 4-5 years, hosed up bad with Russia, killed 12 million people because they were the wrong religion/ethinicity and then blew his brains out cursing everyone. He didnt enact any long lasting moral laws or codes. He might be treated "softer" but not by much. they only way he will get fully redeemed is if europe falls under the far right. I'm not looking to defend Hitler here but you can very easily make the argument that the current, unprecedented level of peace and cooperation in Europe is directly a result of the horrors of the World Wars (which will be condensed into a single conflict eventually). Europe may have become more peaceful just as the general world trend has been towards peace--though, again, the World Wars are a big part of that--but it might very well look more like East Asia, where there's no active fighting but everybody hates each other and is on a hair trigger. I can't tell you that's going to be the common view of it in the future but I guarantee there'll be plenty of books making the argument. It also depends on if the European peace lasts in the long term or this is just a short interruption in the usual state of affairs.
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Apr 23, 2016 03:53
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Grand Fromage posted:I'm not looking to defend Hitler here but you can very easily make the argument that the current, unprecedented level of peace and cooperation in Europe is directly a result of the horrors of the World Wars (which will be condensed into a single conflict eventually). The Mongols can be rehabilitated and reconsidered because they won. They got to do stuff, and that stuff might be seen as good. Hitler didn't achieve anything. He committed atrocities and then lost. The only good he did was serve as a negative example. You can't really rehabilitate that. Since I'm actually posting in this topic... Anyone have any good audio book recommendations? I have a long commute and a frustrating number of really cool books in this topic just aren't available in audio format. I'm more interested in general overviews of a period than specific narratives of lives or events, and unfortunately it's narratives that tend to be popular enough to get audio books. Otherwise I have broad interests. I've got an overview of whaling in America and a random book about "Ancient Civilizations" in my queue just because they were there. Anything audio would interest me. Eiba fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 06:37
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Cyrano4747 posted:The same could be said of the confederacy and there is no end to their apologists. true, but they wernt put to the sword like the nazis were. yeah a bunch of lower SS got away, but most of the higher ups died or got executed. In the civil war, we didnt purge the poo poo out of the south or their leadership. we didnt hang davis. therefore all those fuckheads could write their bullshit. the Nazis had a few but not enough to fully change the narrative.
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Apr 23, 2016 07:08
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Dapper_Swindler posted:true, but they wernt put to the sword like the nazis were. yeah a bunch of lower SS got away, but most of the higher ups died or got executed. In the civil war, we didnt purge the poo poo out of the south or their leadership. we didnt hang davis. therefore all those fuckheads could write their bullshit. the Nazis had a few but not enough to fully change the narrative. Actually most Nazi officials weren't purged at all after the war, assuming you mean West Germany, the bureaucrats and mid level officials and so on were basically the same people as during the war and they continued running things. And lots of ex Nazis and other fascists ended up working with NATO anyway, either in Europe itself or in other places like South America.
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Apr 23, 2016 07:28
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Kuiperdolin posted:The Crusades: statistically one of HITLER's ancestors probably fought in them or something Speaking of which, is there a go-to book for a narrative history of the First Crusade? I enjoy the writing style of Christopher Clark, Helen Castor and Tom Holland if that helps in any way.
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Apr 23, 2016 12:58
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Eiba posted:
I enjoyed the audible version of Hubris: The Tragedy of War in the Twentieth Century .
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Apr 23, 2016 17:27
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Thanks for the computer suggestions, I'm checking a few out now. I was also reading a random Wikipedia article and therefore want to read something about the Victorian era Royal Navy. Preferably about Asian stations but I'm okay with anything good.
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Apr 23, 2016 17:36
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Endman posted:Speaking of which, is there a go-to book for a narrative history of the First Crusade? Take a look at Thomas Asbridge's The First Crusade: A New History: The Roots of Conflict between Christianity and Islam or Jonathan Riley-Smith's The First Crusade and the Idea of Crusading .
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Apr 23, 2016 18:12
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Charlie Mopps posted:Take a look at Thomas Asbridge's The First Crusade: A New History: The Roots of Conflict between Christianity and Islam or Jonathan Riley-Smith's The First Crusade and the Idea of Crusading . Thanks! The first one was one I was already looking at, so I'll just go ahead and grab it.
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Apr 24, 2016 09:12
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A human heart posted:Actually most Nazi officials weren't purged at all after the war, assuming you mean West Germany, the bureaucrats and mid level officials and so on were basically the same people as during the war and they continued running things. And lots of ex Nazis and other fascists ended up working with NATO anyway, either in Europe itself or in other places like South America. true. but it was pushed into the younger generations brains (at least in west germany) that the nazis were evil and they were culpable in their crimes. the Union never did that in the south. partly because lincoln had wanted a binding of wounds and partly because johnson was a sack of poo poo.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:23
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