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DreadLlama posted:irrigating sugar maples. The real problem you are gonna have is figuring out friction loss over 300m of travel and the flow and head height required. Head heights on pumps are figuring straight up, for example from a well to a container. Here's a 20m solar pump for $436. http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/151202...9&ul_noapp=true It's a no name brand from China and does not include solar panels. I do not think that is enough head though. You will probably have to use pvc/abs pipe and protect it from damage by burying it. Once your trees are tall enough, you should consider http://treetpee.com E: ok the Internet has a calulator to figure head height. http://www.clearpond.com.au/how-to/online-calculators/head-height Looks like you will need 53M head height @ 3cubic meters per hour of flow. The Gardenator fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 09:15
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DreadLlama posted:I will plant some trees this spring and they are going to need water. The nearest surface water is estimated 300m away. I have a 55 gallon up a tree and a 12v pump + solar panel on order from E-bay. I need a big long tube to connect the pair and I would like to know what you consider best. Well line (black HDPE plastic pipe) should be even cheaper and is UV resistant. I'd still bury it so it doesn't end up getting mechanically damaged like The Gardenator said. Also, you're going to want 3/4" which is about the smallest well line comes in (friction loss is a bitch).
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Mar 28, 2016 16:28
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The Gardenator posted:E: ok the Internet has a calulator to figure head height. 3 cubic meters per hour is a bit excessive, don't you think? That will completely drain (or fill) the 55 gallon barrel in 4 minutes. Assuming half a dozen smaller trees, in non-drought weather conditions, that's a full weeks worth of watering.
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Mar 28, 2016 20:07
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That flow number was just based off that no name brands rated flow, it probably is too much water. It all depends on number and type of trees, the soil type, and wind/sun.
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Mar 29, 2016 00:01
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SiHdnI1fwSs Just as a comedic, somewhat serious, suggestion. A Williamson ram pump. You said there was an 18m elevation to overcome, if you can manage 2m of drop at the source, a ram pump should be able to provide the flow and head required. Bonus is that it works on water pressure, so no loving around with solar panels, batteries and chinesium impellers. From what I am told gravity has gotten quite a bit more reliable in the past couple of years.
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Mar 30, 2016 18:59
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I found this over at Reddit and it's too good not to share:
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Apr 2, 2016 03:52
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I'm having a very unusual plumbing problem after flushing my water heater. I turned everything back on and turned on some hot taps to bleed the air out, and everything seemed fine until I got to the kitchen sink. The hot ran for a second, and then slowed to a trickle. Same on the cold side. There's still a slow trickle even when I try to shut it off. It'll often drip a little unless you get the handle to just the right spot, but no amount of fiddling around will stop it now--just a slow trickle no matter what. The dishwasher is teed off the hot water line going to the sink, and it's working fine, as is every other tap in the house. I'm guessing the faucet is just broken somehow, is that a sound assumption? Is this connected to me draining the water heater at all, or did the faucet just choose a very coincidental time to croak?
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Apr 11, 2016 06:54
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Faucets don't "croak". You've got a blockage somewhere in your hot line very close to that sink. The 2 most likely locations are in hot cartridge/stem at the faucet, and where the hot supply line under the sink connects to the pipe/stop valve. Shut the valve at your water heater and check out those 2 locations. Those 2 places are where the water supply get choked down smaller, so they tend to collect big pieces of debris in the lines. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 07:34
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I'm going to assume it's in the stem or mixing valve then, since both the hot and cold are effected, and since the dishwasher can get hot water from the same line above the valve. Is it just a matter of removing it and getting out the offending object? Our pipes are all iron, so we get a fair amount of rust particles inside the aerators. I guess a larger than usual chunk could have been knocked loose and is blocking the flow. e: Fixed! It wasn't a large chunk, so much as a bunch of little ones. I turned the valves off and removed the aerator, and about a tablespoon of rust particles poured out like mud. Once that was out of the way, everything's working just like before. Thanks for the help. stubblyhead fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 07:48
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What's the story with this black tube coming from the water supply and shooting down the overflow? It's after the float switch so it only runs when the tank is refilling. And there's a choke on it so you can slow it down. I don't think I've seen that before, and it seems to serve no purpose but to slow down the tank refill.  At a friend's house. They have low-ish pressure to start with, and the tank on the toilet takes forever to refill, wondering if that is just making it worse.
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Apr 16, 2016 18:10
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That's to re-fill the bowl while the tank is filling. The idea is to crimp it down until the bowl just reaches full right when the valve closes. If it's wider open than that it's just pouring fresh water down the drain. Don't believe I've ever seen one that was properly calibrated.
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Apr 16, 2016 18:44
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I need to re-plumb one end of my house with a bathroom and laundry, and maybe a few trouble areas. Pex seems to be highly recommended so what do I need to start? Should I buy a starter kit like this: http://smile.amazon.com/PXKT10012-I..._=sr_1_1&sr=8-1 Assume I am an idiot that doesn't know anything about Pex.
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Apr 18, 2016 19:47
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wormil posted:I need to re-plumb one end of my house with a bathroom and laundry, and maybe a few trouble areas. Pex seems to be highly recommended so what do I need to start? Should I buy a starter kit like this: http://smile.amazon.com/PXKT10012-I..._=sr_1_1&sr=8-1 Are the drains already in place? What is the plumbing made of in the rest of your house? I'm asking because that kit doesn't include the adapters to connect the PEX to anything else. edit: also, that only includes 100 feet of each of blue and red PEX. You'd be surprised how fast that stuff gets used up when doing an entire bathroom. And if you're doing home runs for everything to a manifold, the PEX goes REALLY fast. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Apr 18, 2016 |
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Apr 18, 2016 19:54
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kid sinister posted:Are the drains already in place? Then what is your specific recommendation? What is the connection between drains and Pex? The Pex will connect to copper, one hot, one cold connection.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:17
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wormil posted:Then what is your specific recommendation? What is the connection between drains and Pex? The Pex will connect to copper, one hot, one cold connection. There's no connection. I just wanted to make sure you didn't forget the non-PEX plumbing. For connecting to copper, you could sweat barbed adapters onto the copper (do this without the PEX connected yet), or use Sharkbites. I would prefer the sweat ons.
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Apr 18, 2016 22:01
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I think soldering where you can and using crimp elsewhere is a solid plan, and I think inherently more robust (and cheaper, to be sure!) but I've had zero trouble whatsoever with the skarkbite connectors, they're pretty drat sweet.
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Apr 19, 2016 01:43
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If you're not confident in your soldering, you can buy sharkbites as backup and return them if you don't need them.
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Apr 19, 2016 02:12
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Zhentar posted:If you're not confident in your soldering, you can buy sharkbites as backup and return them if you don't need them. But then what would I buy on the other six trips to the hardware store?
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Apr 19, 2016 02:47
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I've used Sharkbites in the past and if you are careful they work fine. I had one leak because I pushed it on too far. So, anyone else have thoughts about the kit I linked? My understanding is that one advantage of pex is that you can buy more so I'm not worried about running out.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:33
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The clamping tool for pex clamps is like $30 tops. That's really the only thing you might actually want from that kit that you won't find yourself buying piecemeal anyhow. A regular old knife will work fine as a cutter, the clamps you'll just buy a bag of from the hardware store. The fittings you'll buy as needed, that kit will probably give you too many of some and not enough of others. So just buy the tool as the only overhead cost, and then buy the consumables specific to the job. I don't tend to go for kits, I think they're generally over-priced for the contents, and imo, pex doesn't really call for one anyhow.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:36
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What about sizing, seems I read that 1/2" pex is smaller inside diameter than 1/2" copper. So should I go 3/4" pex as the main supply line (only about 10') then 1/2" branching off to each fixture? Copper rings vs cinch clamp? Looks like copper rings are cheap but the tool is expensive. Cinch clamps are more expensive but the tool is cheaper.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:58
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3/4" to a tub filler can be good, but otherwise 1/2" is fine. For hot water to sinks, even going down to 3/8" can be good, for faster hot water delivery. Definitely go with cinch clamp. One tool for multiple sizes, it's more clearly visible that the ring has been crimped correctly. And you shouldn't need to make that many connections so the cost of the rings isn't significant either way.
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Apr 19, 2016 05:36
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Zhentar posted:3/4" to a tub filler can be good, but otherwise 1/2" is fine. For hot water to sinks, even going down to 3/8" can be good, for faster hot water delivery. Way to help him under size his plumbing. Unless you want me to post a real fixture value for each list. You can use a basic rule of thumb. Never split a 1/2" line and pick up two fixtures. Always come off of a 3/4 line. You can bring 3/4 to a bathroom and be fine (unless you have giant master bathroom). The inside diameter of pex is smaller then copper. So never run 3/8 pex to anything. ( i doub't you could get it anywhere but maybe a supply house.) Also you want volume of water not velocity of water. Under sizing the pipe will cause more issues and head achess
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Apr 19, 2016 05:58
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That's bullshit. How much flow do you think a lavatory sink needs?
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Apr 19, 2016 13:49
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Zhentar posted:That's bullshit. How much flow do you think a lavatory sink needs? Not much, but if you remember from couple of weeks back, the sudden drop in pressure screwed up my shower installation. I had to "fix" it by restricting volume. Over-sizing water supply is a good thing.
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Apr 19, 2016 14:17
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Over sizing your hot water supply lines is not a good thing. Each size up more than doubles the volume of hot water needed to purge cold water sitting in the lines; it wastes time, it wastes water, it wastes energy. There are obviously cases where you do need larger supply lines, and you need to be mindful of the pressure drop of PEX fittings, but right-sizing your hot water lines gives you a better plumbing system that is more pleasant to use.
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Apr 19, 2016 17:50
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Is it legal to use 3/8ths for more than just supply lines where you live Zhentar? It's still super illegal in CA. Under-sizing piping is dumb and can create lots of problems down the road. (want to add a second lavi in that bathroom? gotta run a new line to the main branch!  ) If you're concerned about wasting water to purge the hot water lines add a recirc line / pump(with aquastat!) and insulate all the piping. God knows with pex it's very little work to hook one up. (also iirc PEX inherently has much lower heat loss than copper so it will stay hot with even less flow through the recirc pump, which is a good thing.)
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Apr 20, 2016 02:45
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The IPC allows it and I think the UPC does as well. For bathrooms, it does stay below the 8 foot per second limit even with PEX, so I had thought it was allowed here but apparently we have a flat 1/2" minimum (I hadn't cared to check previously because I knew the one I do care about, the kitchen sink, wouldn't be allowed). Even with pipe insulation, recirculation lines lose a decent amount of heat, unless you use on demand recirculation. PEX loses heat from the pipes just as quickly as copper. The R-value of the pipe wall is two order of magnitude higher, but it doesn't matter because the limiting factor is the thermal interface with the air, which is another order of magnitude or two higher than the PEX pipe wall. (The difference in thermal conductivity between PEX and copper does matter for heat traveling down the length of the pipe, but that's not relevant for recirculation).
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Apr 20, 2016 05:14
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Zhentar posted:The IPC allows it and I think the UPC does as well. For bathrooms, it does stay below the 8 foot per second limit even with PEX, so I had thought it was allowed here but apparently we have a flat 1/2" minimum (I hadn't cared to check previously because I knew the one I do care about, the kitchen sink, wouldn't be allowed). Unless they changed it recently, CPC (which is adapted from the UPC) has a flat 1/2" minimum regardless of flow rates. I'm actually in favor of allowing 3/8ths to be run these days if you're doing a home run to a new water-efficient fixture but until they change the code I think you're not doing anyone a favor by recommending it. It's one thing if you or I puts something technically illegal in our house, we've got the knowledge to argue for an exemption to the code if we get red tagged and have to stand inspection. My books are mostly at the shop but a quick googling shows you're correct about the R-value of PEX. Some sources say uninsulated PEX actually loses heat faster than uninsulated copper (While performing better when insulated) some just say that uninsulated pex doesn't meet R-value efficiency requirement. That said, insulating the hot water piping if you have a recirc line is code where I live anyways, I assume it is everywhere. On demand recircs work pretty well, though I have to admit I generally think a timer and/or aquastat system is a better idea. No button or remote to fuss around with, can easily set it up however you want.
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Apr 20, 2016 06:04
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Zhentar posted:The IPC allows it and I think the UPC does as well. For bathrooms, it does stay below the 8 foot per second limit even with PEX, so I had thought it was allowed here but apparently we have a flat 1/2" minimum (I hadn't cared to check previously because I knew the one I do care about, the kitchen sink, wouldn't be allowed). The faster the water moves the more likely it will cause pitting in the piping from erosion. The UPC doesn't mention it anywhere that i'm aware of. I've never heard of anyone running a 3/8 pex to anything. I have seen it used in small infloor heating loops.
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Apr 20, 2016 06:06
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Rd Rash 1000cc posted:The UPC doesn't mention it anywhere that i'm aware of. I've never heard of anyone running a 3/8 pex to anything. Not original install, but I know several guys who have fished 3/8 pex through existing 1/2 copper going to an island sink under a post-tension slab. Not a great solution but apparently it works well enough.
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Apr 20, 2016 06:29
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Jadunk posted:Unless they changed it recently, CPC (which is adapted from the UPC) has a flat 1/2" minimum regardless of flow rates. I'm actually in favor of allowing 3/8ths to be run these days if you're doing a home run to a new water-efficient fixture but until they change the code I think you're not doing anyone a favor by recommending it. It's one thing if you or I puts something technically illegal in our house, we've got the knowledge to argue for an exemption to the code if we get red tagged and have to stand inspection. Yeah, totally agree. I'll be more careful about that. Rd Rash 1000cc posted:The faster the water moves the more likely it will cause pitting in the piping from erosion. PEX is pretty resilient against pitting, so the 8 foot per second speed limit (2.0 GPM for 3/8") is a reasonably conservative safe value.
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Apr 20, 2016 14:38
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Zhentar posted:Yeah, totally agree. I'll be more careful about that. So do you run manifold to run all these 3/8 line everywhere? Turd Herder fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Apr 21, 2016 05:32
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Rd Rash 1000cc posted:I still wouldn't want it pitting over time. Regradless of the thicker side wall of pex. It's not simply thicker side walls; soft turns have less turbulence and the material is much more resistant to erosion. Rd Rash 1000cc posted:So do you run manifold to run all these 3/8 line everywhere? Yeah, I think that's the best way to do it.
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Apr 21, 2016 21:05
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Zhentar posted:It's not simply thicker side walls; soft turns have less turbulence and the material is much more resistant to erosion. Well let's just agree to disagree. And how many years have you held your Journeyman's licence?
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Apr 22, 2016 03:12
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XmasGiftFromWife posted:But then what would I buy on the other six trips to the hardware store? Caulk.
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Apr 23, 2016 05:23
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Cross-posted from the Fix it Fast thread: This past winter, despite turning off the water supply to my hose (and then also opening up the drain plug AND the hose faucet to drain water,) it still had enough water left in it to freeze and bust open. It was right at the elbow (yeah, instead of coming straight out of the hose to the faucet, it makes a 90 degree turn, because I have a deck off the back of the house so it would be a lot more pipe to have it keep going straight.) I used a pipe cutter and cut off the last inch or so from each end of pipe, and now I'm wondering the best way to fit them back together. Obviously, I could just sweat them back. But this is my first home, only in it a few months, so I have no supplies for that other than the aforementioned pipe cutter, which was just left behind by the previous owner. So I'd have to get flux, solder, torch, nozzle, etc... Plus, because of having to cut the pipes back, they don't line up well anymore (and they didn't line up great before, the pipe coming out of the house was already bent slightly.) Can I just use something like this to fix it quick:  Push fittings and flexible so no precise lining up or soldering required. But I'm wondering if it's rated for outdoor use...I'm guessing no.
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Apr 23, 2016 22:16
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I wouldn't use that, no. To me sharkbites are a last resort / temporary fix.
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Apr 23, 2016 23:01
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Really? Have you seen them fail regularly? I know a guy who fixes up houses who uses sharkbites a bunch and says they've never given him problems.
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Apr 24, 2016 03:11
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My reasoning is twofold. First, I'm a pro so I'm charging quite a lot of money to fix your problems and throwing a sharkbite on in 2 minutes doesn't look as good to the customer. Second, if I'm going to use an O ring on copper pipe why not just use my propress? Fitting cost is comparable and they are much less likely to fail. I have seen several sharkbites fail due to house settling, thermal expansion of the piping or improper installation leaving the fitting getting pressured sideways. They do not deal with pressure/shifting perpendicular to direction of flow nearly as well as they do pressure in line with the flow.
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Apr 24, 2016 06:54
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