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How do taxi companies get away with classifying drivers as independent contractors?
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Apr 24, 2016 00:19
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The X-man cometh posted:How do taxi companies get away with classifying drivers as independent contractors? Medallions (where they exist) confuse things. In a lot of cases there's an argument to be made that any control the medallion owner might exercise over the taxi driver doesn't actually constitute an employer-employee relationship because the medallion owner is simply requiring that the driver follow the usage guidelines of the medallion that they're leasing. A lot of taxi drivers also have the freedom to set their own rates and otherwise operate as a business. The fact that Uber sets fares for driver is actually a pretty core part of the problem.
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Apr 24, 2016 00:39
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In most jurisdictions (I'm actually having trouble thinking of an exception in the West) taxi rates are set by by-law. Where are you thinking of that lets taxi drivers set their own rates? Sounds like it would be tough on tourists.
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Apr 24, 2016 00:48
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Most cab companies charge a per-day or per-month rate for using their car (or branding) and dispatch. as long as you pay them they don't give two shits if you go park in a parking lot taking no fares.
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Apr 24, 2016 01:05
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Paradoxish posted:A lot of taxi drivers also have the freedom to set their own rates and otherwise operate as a business. The fact that Uber sets fares for driver is actually a pretty core part of the problem. I've heard this objection before but literally never seen it in any of the major cities I've taken taxis in. Quick googling indicates that NYC, LA, SF, Chicago, and Seattle are all this way, for example.
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Apr 24, 2016 01:36
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If anything with time fares have become more and more restricted and automatic everywhere I've ever gone.
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Apr 24, 2016 01:52
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Paradoxish posted:Medallions (where they exist) confuse things. In a lot of cases there's an argument to be made that any control the medallion owner might exercise over the taxi driver doesn't actually constitute an employer-employee relationship because the medallion owner is simply requiring that the driver follow the usage guidelines of the medallion that they're leasing. A lot of taxi drivers also have the freedom to set their own rates and otherwise operate as a business. The fact that Uber sets fares for driver is actually a pretty core part of the problem. Drivers set their own hours and own th car. On the sliding scale of contractor vs enployee they seem pretty solidly in the middle to me. I find it unlikely that the line is going to be moved far enough in the US to reclassify uber drivers.
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Apr 24, 2016 02:00
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asdf32 posted:Drivers set their own hours and own th car. On the sliding scale of contractor vs enployee they seem pretty solidly in the middle to me. I find it unlikely that the line is going to be moved far enough in the US to reclassify uber drivers. It isn't a sliding scale. You either are an independent contractor or you aren't. If you aren't setting your own rates, you aren't an independent contractor. End of story.
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Apr 24, 2016 02:06
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Citizen Tayne posted:It isn't a sliding scale. You either are an independent contractor or you aren't. If you aren't setting your own rates, you aren't an independent contractor. End of story. So what are taxi drivers? Those rates are set by by-law everywhere I know of. Does that make all those drivers suddenly employees? I think that would be surprising to the taxi companies.
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Apr 24, 2016 02:19
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And its not just the base rates per se, uber is also doing all the surge pricing for the drivers; there's no real competition on surge prices since drivers dont have much control
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Apr 24, 2016 02:23
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Citizen Tayne posted:It isn't a sliding scale. You either are an independent contractor or you aren't. If you aren't setting your own rates, you aren't an independent contractor. End of story. Yes it is. IRS posted:Businesses must weigh all these factors when determining whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor. Some factors may indicate that the worker is an employee, while other factors indicate that the worker is an independent contractor. There is no “magic” or set number of factors that “makes” the worker an employee or an independent contractor, and no one factor stands alone in making this determination. Also, factors which are relevant in one situation may not be relevant in another. The keys are to look at the entire relationship, consider the degree or extent of the right to direct and control, and finally, to document each of the factors used in coming up with the determination. https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Independent-Contractor-Self-Employed-or-Employee
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Apr 24, 2016 02:27
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blah_blah posted:I've heard this objection before but literally never seen it in any of the major cities I've taken taxis in. Quick googling indicates that NYC, LA, SF, Chicago, and Seattle are all this way, for example. People might be thinking of black car livery/dispatch? Dunno
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Apr 24, 2016 02:36
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The whole situation with independent contractors is broken and the laws needs to be rewritten from scratch, the way they are now it's way too easy for companies like Uber to screw over individuals. Short version is if you're a one person independent contractor, and you don't have years of experience in a skilled trade with professional licensing, you're probably getting screwed.
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Apr 24, 2016 02:38
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Xoidanor posted:They did have a good run though on convincing the world that tax fraud and employee code violations was innovative though. That's pretty much my thought on the Alex St. John 'Recruiting Giants' BS on my Facebook. "Get an intern out of college, call them exempt, and run them at 80+ hours a week ; profit!" Too bad EA had some nasty lawsuits about misclassifying level 1 guys as exempt.
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Apr 24, 2016 03:01
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Hughlander posted:That's pretty much my thought on the Alex St. John 'Recruiting Giants' BS on my Facebook. "Get an intern out of college, call them exempt, and run them at 80+ hours a week ; profit!" Too bad EA had some nasty lawsuits about misclassifying level 1 guys as exempt. What I find truly baffling is that there are entire industries out there where, to have a career, "work free as an intern for two years -> maybe get a job if you're very lucky" is pretty much the standard. I feel like the programming world saw that going on and said "hey we want that too!' Granted in the games industry and why EA got away with that so long was because so many people are just tripping over each other to get into the games industry. For every person that looked at the permanent crunch time and dismal wage compared to literally all other programming position and went "wow, gently caress this poo poo" there were twelve other people trying to get a job programming games.
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Apr 24, 2016 03:29
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ToxicSlurpee posted:What I find truly baffling is that there are entire industries out there where, to have a career, "work free as an intern for two years -> maybe get a job if you're very lucky" is pretty much the standard. I feel like the programming world saw that going on and said "hey we want that too!' I have never talked to a person in a software field who had an unpaid internship. Am I just missing a huge slice of this?
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Apr 24, 2016 03:36
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Subjunctive posted:I have never talked to a person in a software field who had an unpaid internship. Am I just missing a huge slice of this? No, that hasn't hit the software world yet from what I hear but is apparently rampant in film and TV. People with communications degrees have dismal prospects apparently and some people will work a full time job while getting wrung for hours during internships for years and never getting job offers.
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Apr 24, 2016 03:42
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ToxicSlurpee posted:No, that hasn't hit the software world yet from what I hear but is apparently rampant in film and TV. Ah, ok. Yeah, common in press/magazine/fashion as well.
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Apr 24, 2016 03:44
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blah_blah posted:I've heard this objection before but literally never seen it in any of the major cities I've taken taxis in. Quick googling indicates that NYC, LA, SF, Chicago, and Seattle are all this way, for example. States and cities set the fares for taxis that pick up street hails and governments are explicitly exempt from anti-trust law, and companies following a government regulation on prices are likewise immune from prosecution despite that being very clear price fixing. Simply put it isn't illegal when the government does it or when the government tells you to do it. A company can set the rate they charge for their services. A company can set the rate at which they pay independent contractors. But a company cannot control what an independent contractor may charge the clients of the independent contractor - that's kind of fundamentally at odds with the independent part of an independent contractor. Either those contractors are misclassified or illegal price fixing is occurring.
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Apr 24, 2016 04:06
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Subjunctive posted:I have never talked to a person in a software field who had an unpaid internship. Am I just missing a huge slice of this? Have you talked to many gamedev folk? Besides mobile gaming usually the pay is pretty crap.
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Apr 24, 2016 04:07
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Regarding video game programmers not being paid as well as other programmers: why is this so shocking? A lot of people go into computer science because they love video games, and are willing to do anything to get into the industry. It's like nerd show business.
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Apr 24, 2016 04:24
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It's not shocking, but it kind of sucks because the habit of ripping people off because of their "passion" for a field is annoying. Not really sure what the way to address that is, other than unionization/employees generally standing up for themselves. But more people going into those industries definitely depresses wages.
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Apr 24, 2016 04:47
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Coolness Averted posted:Have you talked to many gamedev folk? Besides mobile gaming usually the pay is pretty crap. Yeah, I've worked with a number of gamedev folks, including ex-EA, and while pay in that whole industry is unpleasant, I've never heard of unpaid software internships.
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Apr 24, 2016 04:50
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Ccs posted:It's not shocking, but it kind of sucks because the habit of ripping people off because of their "passion" for a field is annoying. Not really sure what the way to address that is, other than unionization/employees generally standing up for themselves. But more people going into those industries definitely depresses wages. It's not exactly different than the economy as a whole and game devs do pretty well compared to most artists and musicians who are also in areas which lots of other people want to work in.
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Apr 24, 2016 14:05
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Konstantin posted:The whole situation with independent contractors is broken and the laws needs to be rewritten from scratch, the way they are now it's way too easy for companies like Uber to screw over individuals. Short version is if you're a one person independent contractor, and you don't have years of experience in a skilled trade with professional licensing, you're probably getting screwed. So the situation is a bit more complicated, legally. I agree with the idea that there's a problem when uber drivers are not making enough money to cover business expenses the way they would if they were classified as employees. But that's basically the problem of the economy having too low wages for large classes of people. Walmart employees are employees, afterall, but we still think they're getting the short end of the economic stick. The solution there is economic policy much broader than employee classification.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:25
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Posted in the YOSPOS thread, a really good article about the inside baseball of late-stage funding and why the money is drying up for unicorns: http://abovethecrowd.com/2016/04/21/on-the-road-to-recap/. There's a lot of quotable poo poo in there.
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Apr 25, 2016 03:40
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Yeah, really good piece. There's a response piece that I found interesting as well, but I'm not finding it quickly on my phone. The identity-destroying fear of a down round is leading people into some bad decisions.
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Apr 25, 2016 03:50
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Excellent link, there. "Rdio, I guess, made the mistake of trying to be sustainable too early,” says [early employee Wilson] Miner. “That classic startup mistake of worrying about being profitable and having a business that makes any sense before you’ve reached this astronomical growth curve. " 
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Apr 25, 2016 04:39
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I can speak to the tapping of 2nd tier funding sources e.g., sovereigns, family offices, offshore HNWI. It's a whirlwind of late-to-the-show investors wanting to get in on start-ups but who don't have the capacity to evaluate term sheets. It's going to blow up in their faces soon.
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Apr 25, 2016 04:44
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Excellent link, there. Wilson's right, though; Spotify outlasted Rdio with a worse product because it's easier to get backing for unsustainable growth than sustainable mini-growth. Spotify also played a little fast and loose with licensing rights and artist payments, but that's pretty much expected these days, right?
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Apr 25, 2016 04:48
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Kobayashi posted:Posted in the YOSPOS thread, a really good article about the inside baseball of late-stage funding and why the money is drying up for unicorns: http://abovethecrowd.com/2016/04/21/on-the-road-to-recap/. There's a lot of quotable poo poo in there. The kerning in that website is terrible. It makes "burn" look like "bum". At least for me.
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Apr 25, 2016 06:12
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It is weird how herd-like angels and VC and equity scenes can be. That Bill Gurley article is really good. Some new articles about Theranos Short take on the diagnostic tech, would be better if it went a little deeper http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-rise-and-fall-of-theranos/ NYT article on Elizabeth Holmes, the board room situation, and some "after the collapse" guesses. All the company can really dangle out there is PR stuff, that that they are "adding talent" to the board, which Holmes controls, and that any outsider taking over would be akin to a predatory Shkreli scenario. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/25/business/theranoss-fate-rests-with-afounder-who-answers-only-to-herself.html
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Apr 25, 2016 15:09
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Slate Money/Felix Salmon podcast also gets into Theranos etc. I haven't listened to it, yet. https://soundcloud.com/panoply/money-the-dubious-values-edition edit: Pretty funny that they talk poo poo about Zenefits and the guest is (essentially) an investor and starts having to get very abstract about things. pangstrom fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 17:28
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pangstrom posted:Short take on the diagnostic tech, would be better if it went a little deeper
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Apr 25, 2016 20:19
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Looks like we're about to settle the poll in the header (paywall).San Francisco Chronicle posted:Potentially speeding the sale of one of Silicon Valley’s best-known companies, Yahoo announced Wednesday that it has reached a settlement with activist investor Starboard Value to give the New York hedge fund four seats on the board.
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Apr 27, 2016 23:42
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*wrecks a tech giant company by taking increasingly stupid decisions* *walks away with 50 million golden parachute* How do I become a CEO please advise.
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Apr 28, 2016 12:52
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Uber is going to fight to (somebody's) death to keep from classifying drivers as employees, because if they do, their "disruptive" buisiness model collapses. If they can run out the clock on that until we have autonomous self-driving cars they'll have won. The drivers are merely a transitional step, like how Netflix's ultimate goal was streaming but had to do DVD by mail for its first few years of existence as the technology wasn't ready yet.
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Apr 28, 2016 15:51
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Has Uber's use of capital to suppress rates been mentioned here? I thought it was pretty stark, and makes me want to regulate their asses to the ground http://www.businessinsider.com/why-uber-won-2016-4
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Apr 28, 2016 19:31
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Pochoclo posted:*wrecks a tech giant company by taking increasingly stupid decisions* First: be born to rich parents
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Apr 28, 2016 19:43
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Wheany posted:First: be born to rich parents Second: Study symbolics, and pretend it's actually something worth studying.
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Apr 29, 2016 01:51
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