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You are typically not supposed to run into the back of other cars.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:37
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First half was pretty forgettable, but that 2nd half was solid. Decent race.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:37
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Human Grand Prix posted:You are typically not supposed to run into the back of other cars. This is IndyCar we're talking about here.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:37
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Where was Hawksworth supposed to go?
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Apr 24, 2016 22:39
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Human Grand Prix posted:Where was Hawksworth supposed to go? maybe disappear several laps earlier? the leaders are side by side behind him, drive off the road if he needs to, he has no business anywhere near that battle. no racing series in the world where that poo poo is acceptable.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:40
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He moved over. And was also fighting for position.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:41
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Human Grand Prix posted:He moved over. And was also fighting for position. his race is nowhere near as important as the leaders. and he didn't move over until the loving leaders were side by side. again, he should have let them both by the instant they got behind him, not at the worst possible time.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:44
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be nice wicka posted:maybe disappear several laps earlier? the leaders are side by side behind him, drive off the road if he needs to, he has no business anywhere near that battle. no racing series in the world where that poo poo is acceptable. Hawksworth was on the lead lap. You can fight as hard as you want in most US series if you are on the lead lap. He did the right thing to try to get out of the way, he didn't even have to do that. Graham misjudged it and hit him.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:45
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hawksworth decided the result of the race. that's indefensibly stupid.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:46
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be nice wicka posted:hawksworth decided the result of the race. that's indefensibly stupid.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:48
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dude finished in 19TH PLACE. his race was utterly irrelevant and meaningless.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:49
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Cygni posted:He didn't do anything wrong? It's not his fault Graham tried to use him as a pick and screwed it up. it's his fault for even being there. he's a back marker and he's not in contention for anything. get out of the way and give the actually good drivers room to race for the win.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:50
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He bashed Pagenaud off the track as well.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:51
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be nice wicka posted:it's his fault for even being there. he's a back marker and he's not in contention for anything. get out of the way and give the actually good drivers room to race for the win. A) Thats exactly what he was doing when Graham hit him, B) He doesnt have to do that, hes on the lead lap. He could have blocked them both all the way into Turn 7 if he wanted. Whether you think his race is irrelvant or not, this is racing. He is allowed to fight to stay on the lead lap as hard as he wants. If the leaders are so fast, they can pass him.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:53
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That was a really good second half of the race. SiPag deserving winner. Rahal is a hero finishing in second with no front wing. wicka has bad opinions.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:54
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Cygni posted:A) Thats exactly what he was doing when Graham hit him, B) He doesnt have to do that, hes on the lead lap. He could have blocked them both all the way into Turn 7 if he wanted. Whether you think his race is irrelvant or not, this is racing. He is allowed to fight to stay on the lead lap as hard as he wants. If the leaders are so fast, they can pass him. i don't care if he's on the lead lap, his race is irrelevant and he does not have the right to ruin the finish for the leaders. he should have gotten out of the way long before pag and rahal were side by side behind him at the apex of the corner. that is the worst possible time to pull that poo poo. the simple fact of the matter is that pag and rahal fight to the flag if hawksworth disappears earlier. only a lunatic would suggest that isn't the ideal outcome.
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Apr 24, 2016 22:58
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wicka take your meds pls
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Apr 24, 2016 23:12
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never would've expected to see racing fans argue that bad finishes are actually superior to good ones but welp here we are
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Apr 24, 2016 23:21
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be nice wicka posted:i don't care if he's on the lead lap, his race is irrelevant and he does not have the right to ruin the finish for the leaders. he should have gotten out of the way long before pag and rahal were side by side behind him at the apex of the corner. that is the worst possible time to pull that poo poo. Only a lunatic would suggest that someone on the lead lap has no right to fight for position and to stay on the lead lap.
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Apr 24, 2016 23:45
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Cubey posted:Only a lunatic would suggest that someone on the lead lap has no right to fight for position and to stay on the lead lap. say no more, the point has been made: good races with good finishes are bad and should be avoided at all costs
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Apr 24, 2016 23:46
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It seems like the only person saying it wasn't a good race with a good finish is you 
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Apr 24, 2016 23:50
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i mean it's quite obviously a far worse finish that what we could've had if hawksworth wasn't there, no one can disagree with that unless (again) they literally like bad finishes.
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Apr 24, 2016 23:52
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Cubey posted:Only a lunatic would suggest that someone on the lead lap has no right to fight for position and to stay on the lead lap. and also, no, no racing fans or racing series with an ounce of sense would suggest that hawksworth has any option there but to get out of the way. he finished 19th. his race and his presence on the lead lap is completely and utterly meaningless, and by fighting to preserve that he only made the race worse and ended rahal's chances of winning it. he's doing nothing of any value. get out of the way and let the leaders lead. this is day one stuff.
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Apr 24, 2016 23:54
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be nice wicka posted:i mean it's quite obviously a far worse finish that what we could've had if hawksworth wasn't there, no one can disagree with that unless (again) they literally like bad finishes. Hawksworth didn't have some kind of magical tractor beam that drew Rahal's car into the back of him. In fact Hawksworth looked to be trying to move out of the way, exactly as you suggest he should do, and Rahal followed him to that side of the track. Rahal misjudged his closing rate and broke his own wing, redirect your rage to the dude who hosed up instead of the dude who was doing what he should have been doing. Even Graham said Hawksworth was trying to let them by and he was not upset with him at all. DEEP STATE PLOT fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 24, 2016 23:59
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The fact that Rahal finished 2nd with no front wing blows my mind
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Apr 25, 2016 00:02
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Cubey posted:Hawksworth didn't have some kind of magical tractor beam that drew Rahal's car into the back of him. In fact Hawksworth looked to be trying to move out of the way, exactly as you suggest he did, and Rahal followed him to that side of the track. Rahal misjudged his closing rate and broke his own wing, redirect your rage to the dude who hosed up instead of the dude who was doing what he should have been doing. as i've said one million times before, hawksworth should have let them by long ago, not when they were side by side at the apex of the corner, that's just lol. it's unquestionably bad driving from both hawksworth and rahal, the only difference is that rahal doesn't even have the opportunity to make that mistake if hawkworth is responsible enough to remove himself from the equation. there's no rage involved here you big baby, i'm just saying this race could have been far better if it weren't for hawksworth
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Apr 25, 2016 00:02
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be nice wicka posted:as i've said one million times before, hawksworth should have let them by long ago, not when they were side by side at the apex of the corner, that's just lol. it's unquestionably bad driving from both hawksworth and rahal, the only difference is that rahal doesn't even have the opportunity to make that mistake if hawkworth is responsible enough to remove himself from the equation. The race would've also been far better if it was a photo finish with both cars upside down and on fire, guess all finishes are bad.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:07
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Cubey posted:The race would've also been far better if it was a photo finish with both cars upside down and on fire, guess all finishes are bad. jesus christ man, get over yourself. i'm talking about a type of finish that actually would have happened if hawksworth POOF vanished from the earth and left a battle he had no business being involved in.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:09
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Says the dude who has been shouted down by every other poster in this thread for being wrong.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:10
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Cubey posted:Says the dude who has been shouted down by every other poster in this thread for being wrong. hitler was popularly elected
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Apr 25, 2016 00:12
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yet to see any one single person explain what value hawksworth provided to this race by battling with the leaders with four laps to go. i don't care if he's allowed by rule to do that; that rule needs to be changed, but you don't need to a rule to tell you to give the leaders space at the end. that's elementary. if hawksworth is the championship leader on the last race of the season and he needs that spot in order to win the title, then he can defend. all he did today was decide the outcome of the race. that's not something that should be applauded.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:13
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This is competition. Would it have been better for the ending if Hawksworth metaphysically vanished from the racetrack? Maybe. Who knows. Maybe Sipag would have just blown by Rahal anyway and we wouldn't have gotten to see Rahal struggle around to keep 2nd. But Hawksworth has the right in the rules as they have been written for like a friggen 100 years on this poo poo, to fight for his position to stay on the lead lap. It is not his responsibility to give a poo poo about the 'ideal ending' for the leaders or the series or anyone else. Thats the entire point of competing. For gently caress sake, the only reason there was a battle for the lead in the first place was because people were fighting to stay on the lead lap, otherwise this probably would have been a 30+ second blow out win.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:14
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Cygni posted:This is competition. Would it have been better for the ending if Hawksworth metaphysically vanished from the racetrack? Maybe. Who knows. Maybe Sipag would have just blown by Rahal anyway and we wouldn't have gotten to see Rahal struggle around to keep 2nd. maybe. let's let them decide that, not hawksworth.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:14
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be nice wicka posted:yet to see any one single person explain what value hawksworth provided to this race by battling with the leaders with four laps to go. i don't care if he's allowed by rule to do that; that rule needs to be changed, but you don't need to a rule to tell you to give the leaders space at the end. that's elementary. Hypotheticals in competition are loving stupid. Rahal could have smashed into the back of Pagenaud and broken his own wing. He could've spun himself and Pagenaud out and ended the race behind the pace car with nobody racing for the win at all. Pagenaud could've blocked himself into a spin and handed Rahal an easy win. You have absolutely no way whatsoever of knowing whether the finish would have been even a tiny bit better without Hawksworth there, and you have no way of knowing that it could not have been worse either. The only person unhappy with this finish is you. Even Rahal did not place any blame at all whatsoever on Hawskworth, because unlike you he understands that Hawksworth had all the right in the world to race as he was.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:17
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Of course Rahal never gets anywhere near Pagenaud if every back marker pulls out of the way of the leaders at the earliest opportunity.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:17
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Cubey posted:Hypotheticals in competition are loving stupid. it's not a hypothetical. rahal doesn't crash into hawksworth if hawksworth isn't there. the only hypothetical is whether or not the race would have continued to be close, i would have preferred to discover the answer to that question irl rather than arguing about it here. i'm not unhappy with this finish. pag owns and deserved the win on the day. i just think it could have been better, and how can you even disagree?
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Apr 25, 2016 00:20
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If Hawksworth is not there, they would not have been that close together in the first place. You see how this works? Your entire argument falls right the gently caress apart when you consider that the only reason the race was even close in the first place was due to cars racing to stay on the lead lap. You get them to move over instantly for the leaders and this isn't a close race. You're right, there wouldn't be an argument about this because it would've been a blowout.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:25
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It also could have been better if it started pouring rain, or if they called a yellow for the debris on the track, or if they magically finished 9 wide or or or or... The ending was still great and hypotheticals are dumb, especially concerning people already going above and beyond what they have to do in the rules. Thats probably going to be a top 3 finish to a race that we see this year, just enjoy it man.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:26
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Cygni posted:It also could have been better if it started pouring rain, or if they called a yellow for the debris on the track, or if they magically finished 9 wide or or or or... The ending was still great and hypotheticals are dumb, especially concerning people already going above and beyond what they have to do in the rules. Thats probably going to be a top 3 finish to a race that we see this year, just enjoy it man. you are so much better than bullshit strawman arguments, cygni. were there rainclouds overhead today? no? then don't say "oh well it could have rained." that's meaningless drivel. hawksworth was actually hanging out in front of the leaders. he actually could have moved. that is a real option we had today.
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Apr 25, 2016 00:32
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Conor is upset:
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Apr 25, 2016 00:37
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