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computer parts posted:The problem isn't that "nothing happens", the problem is that "stuff happens, for seemingly no reason". stuff happens in the show because D+D are ticking off boxes of what is supposed to happen there's no rhyme or reason, everything is just because
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Apr 25, 2016 17:11
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Super Ninja Fish posted:poo poo meme? That was the best thing to come out of last year's thread. The one you quoted needs a little fleshing out though. It left out a the absurdity involved in how the Snakes were able to kill the princes. So it needs to be fixed before it gets put in with the classics. The best one went something like this: quote:"We had an assistant named Dave Hill," said Benioff and Weiss. "One day last summer he walked into our office and said, 'You know that kid (Sansa) whose family gets massacred by the Lannisters? The one who escaped to the Vale after Joffrey died?' 'Yeah?' 'Well,' said Dave, doesn't it make sense that Littlefinger gives her to the Boltons for reasons and she gets raped every night by Ramsay Snow? Where else is she going to go?' 'You're right,' we said. 'That does make sense.' 'And what if we had Sophie Turner's parents come over and have them watch the filming of the rape scene?'
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Apr 25, 2016 17:17
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I don't see book readers mourning the inability to "I told you so" on the non-readers. Plenty of non-readers are hating on the show. I see a couple of elevated fanfic writers saying "I told you so" to all of us and it's not pretty. I wonder where the wildlings were last episode. I guess they all took off to the south of Castle Black. I'm not sure what there was left for Jon to do to destroy the Watch--what Thorne feared has already been done--so what I'm saying is the show writers are sucking at cause and effect, motivation, coherence, etc.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:18
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At this point I'm convinced GRRM fed D&D a bunch of random and fake plot points to see what kind of mess they make. Then when the actual conclusion of the story comes out he'll profit massively. This is a guy who writes 1000+ pages of political manipulations after all, he knows how these things work.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:20
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Pedro De Heredia posted:This is kind of the nature of episodic / television writing. The Dorne plotline (as well as some other ones) is pretty bad but in a tv series when that happens you just gotta hope they downplay it and move on. They can't go and delete the old episodes. Well, that was kinda of my point: it would have been smart to not include the Dorne arc at all since they didint figured out a way to make it work in TV. Like they skipped the bulk of Tyrion endless journey through Essos (and penny) because they realized that would make bad TV To write all that awful crap and then finish the whole thing in a rush with little regard for logic or good storytelling because of how bad it turned out is not very smart But I guess none of then was able to look at that script from season 5 and say "hey this doenst make much sense and sounds very silly" and instead they just though it was going to work and only later they realized it didnt. So yes, it was probably for the best. At least now we have that out of the way Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 17:22
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Most book readers would probably trade five years of smug over knowledge of a fantasy work for not having to hold their tongues due to people melting down apparently when spoiled. Im happy to be able to discuss things with people with depth and not needing to walk on eggshells
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Apr 25, 2016 17:22
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Phi230 posted:stuff happens in the show because D+D are ticking off boxes of what is supposed to happen Melisandre's revelation is the clearest example of that this episode. Like, the audience finds out she's an old woman in disguise. Why did we need to know this? It is probably something that's revealed in the books, but there's no point here. Is there some revelation later on that relies on her being secretly old? Even if there is, do we the audience fare better because we know ahead of time she's old? Or is it just a shocking scene to end your episode on?
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Apr 25, 2016 17:26
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Yeah the Mel stuff was interesting tidbit but it seemed shoe-horned in there.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:29
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computer parts posted:Melisandre's revelation is the clearest example of that this episode. Like, the audience finds out she's an old woman in disguise. Why did we need to know this? It is probably something that's revealed in the books, but there's no point here. Yes exactly GRRM told them that Mel is actually an old crone using magic to make herself look young Oh ok GRRM, let's include that scene and check it off the list I guess its supposed to mean that she's depressed and having a crisis of faith but they don't convey it well. They've put more emphasis on the VVitch than the character development.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:33
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LegalPad posted:There was no weight to anyone's death in this episode. RIP Doran, RIP Hotah, RIP Trystane -- nobody cares or knows who you were because you received zero characterization. A lot of people are reading way too much into the "My son" line, too. I think they just wanted to remind you that he had this son before they go kill him. I'm glad they got rid of that entire dumb plot that they didn't have room to develop. They can pretty much let the Dornish rule Dorne until the show ends and all the invaders can march into Kings Landing together or something. Sadly, I liked this episode more than a lot of the episodes in the previous season simply for cutting dead weight and a surprise ending that didn't make me want to puke or feel like an idiot wrote it. I would hope the status of the Lannister army and who exactly is still in it will be addressed soon? You've got two kingdoms inside Westeros who seem fairly concerned about them (Dorne and The North). tadashi fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 17:35
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Mr. Nice! posted:There are plenty of reasons they could have got onboard. Most of the people that are mad in here just seem to want to be angry about the show. I enjoyed it, personally. There's lots of ways characters can get anywhere, but for some crazy reason TV shows and movies waste valuable time with all these dumb shots of characters arriving and leaving places. It's almost like they think those shots can help contribute to the narrative or help make sure the audience knows whats going on. Idiot directors, the audience can just guess, the possible reasons anyone got anywhere are endless, why even bother spelling it out? Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 17:37
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computer parts posted:Melisandre's revelation is the clearest example of that this episode. Like, the audience finds out she's an old woman in disguise. Why did we need to know this? It is probably something that's revealed in the books, but there's no point here. This is such weird reasoning to me. A bunch of poo poo has happened on the show that a non-book reader would feel the exact same way about. "Why am I being shown this? What is the significance?" The only difference is that book readers knew the significance of those moments ahead of time and thus didn't have this reaction. Now you don't know why you're being shown something and immediately assume there's no reason.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:40
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Was it Bad Pussy snake who stabbed Doran's giant bodyguard in the back?
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Apr 25, 2016 17:43
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computer parts posted:Melisandre's revelation is the clearest example of that this episode. Like, the audience finds out she's an old woman in disguise. Why did we need to know this? It is probably something that's revealed in the books, but there's no point here. Maybe give the show a chance to make it relevant before you complain it was shoehorned in? It's the first Episode. Even if we get to the end of the season and it hasn't been relevant for plot reasons showing the audience that Melisande is vain enough to make herself a beautiful woman via magic has some value as far as adding some depth to her character. I would say they lingered on the reveal a little too much so the audience could really soak in WHAT A CRAZY DRAMATIC TWIST IT WAS, but it's the least offensive bit of writing in the episode.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:43
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computer parts posted:Melisandre's revelation is the clearest example of that this episode. Like, the audience finds out she's an old woman in disguise. Why did we need to know this? It is probably something that's revealed in the books, but there's no point here. It's revealed to show you that she might finally be giving up. She says earlier that she saw a vision Jon Snow fighting inside Winterfell. I think the revelation was supposed to be shocking but I think it actually gives you a greater idea of what's going on with her. When Davos tells the small group with him that Melisandre may be the only one who can save them (at least that seems to be his point), you expect she's going to swoop in at some point and either shadow baby their opposition or revive Jon Snow but instead we find out she might just be giving up. tadashi fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 17:45
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Mels revelation was absolutely the best scene in this episode. And all in all, the whole wall arc is still what is working the best
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Apr 25, 2016 17:48
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Elias_Maluco posted:Mels revelation was absolutely the best scene in this episode. And all in all, the whole wall arc is still what is working the best Is this the first surprising (possibly) turn of events that doesn't involve someone getting brutally murdered (at least not directly connected to that scene)?
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Apr 25, 2016 17:52
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All lovely plots will be forgiven as long as Ghost chews Olli's face off.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:53
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tadashi posted:It's revealed to show you that she might finally be giving up. She says earlier that she saw a vision Jon Snow fighting inside Winterfell. I think the revelation was supposed to be shocking but I think it actually gives you a greater idea of what's going on with her. When Davos tells the small group with him that Melisandre may be the only one who can save them (at least that seems to be his point), you expect she's going to swoop in at some point and either shadow baby their opposition or revive Jon Snow but instead we find out she might just be giving up. Yeah, it was clearly juxtaposed with Davos putting his faith in her (which he would never do normally), but even she's ready to give up. She's tired and worn down, she just wants to go to bed (remember that she doesn't eat or drink or sleep). Also it served as an effective reminder to the audience that she is in fact, quite powerful. IIRC she hasn't really had an effective display of power for a season or two.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:54
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Zero One posted:All shifty plots will be forgiven as long as Ghost chews Olli's face off. I just get the feeling that somehow he lives for a long time and Arya or some Stark ally kills him ala Jon killing Slynt without really knowing what he did to Ned.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:55
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I can't wait for GRRM's "oh you think that's how it happens in the books?"  blog updates.
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Apr 25, 2016 18:08
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is there a website that has all of these?
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Apr 25, 2016 18:11
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That whole leaving the entire ultra flammable fleet completely unguarded plot convenience is very much a 'meh' as far as I'm concerned.
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Apr 25, 2016 18:41
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I don't mean to cross the streams but this is a good point from the other threadquote:magical disappearing dogs kind of sucked. Any explanation at all for that? First Theon tells Sansa that they'd be better off in the freezing river. Then the dogs find her and the whole Bolton party gets murdered but they just go away mid-scene? Couldn't they did a reversal of what happened when Yara tried to save Theon and just Benny Hill the houndmaster and the dogs back to Winterfell?
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Apr 25, 2016 18:43
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"We had a dwarf named Hugor Hill," said Griff and Aegon. "One day last summer he walked into our boat and said, 'You know that kid (Aegon) whose family gets massacred by the Lannisters? The one who runs to Pentos?' 'Yeah?' 'Well,' said Hugor, doesn't it make sense that he'd go to Westeros? Where else is he going to go?' 'You're right,' we said. 'That does make sense.' 'And what if during the battle for King's Landing, he's the one who ends up killing Tommen?' This year, Hugor Hill is riding a pig."
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Apr 25, 2016 18:45
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Dog thing seems reasonable enough. - Sansa is incredibly valuable, so they're going to be using tracking dogs and not EAT THE MEAT dogs - The guy handling the dogs is probably a dog handler and not a swordsman - All the Boltons present got killed, and yet next week Ramsay knows what happened to them, soooo obviously someone got away?
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Apr 25, 2016 18:47
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"Sansa is valuable" reminds me of when the guards of the eyrie were fine turning away arya fuckin stark without batting an eye or tellin anyone.
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Apr 25, 2016 18:50
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They were the *good* dogs, Ramsay said it so himself. I suppose they just ran off and somehow are going to tell Ramsay what happened. Perhaps he can talk to dogs too, that's why he treats then so well
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Apr 25, 2016 18:51
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Those dogs all got promotions after scaring off the Ironborn.
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Apr 25, 2016 18:51
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Elias_Maluco posted:They were the *good* dogs, Ramsay said it so himself. I suppose they just ran off and somehow are going to tell Ramsay what happened. You think Ramsay's best hounds can't teleport? Ramsay is also a warg and was skinchanging both of them at the same time.
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Apr 25, 2016 18:54
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Maybe the dogs get to eat some sweet Miranda meat as reward for returning with the news?
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Apr 25, 2016 18:54
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lifts cats over head posted:Yeah the Mel stuff was interesting tidbit but it seemed shoe-horned in there. *ticks off bingocard* It was a very good moment that worked for the narrative. "The red woman is powerful" -- here let us show you. We'll also let you know how old she is and that she's been using a glamour all this time to appear young and sexy.
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Apr 25, 2016 18:54
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Now what happens to Theon, by the way? Im speculating that somehow Asha/Yara is going to bump at then and take him home and then we will have kingsmoot. Balon should probably finally die a little before that, maybe in in the next episode
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Apr 25, 2016 19:00
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Did I miss a scene confirming that Davos actually knows what happened to Shireen? It seems unlikely that Mel is gonna fess us in the middle of her crisis of faith, especially to a man that will almost certainly try to kill her (again) over it. For that matter he doesn't know for sure what happen to Stannis, even if he's pretty sure. I assume the revelation and emotional gut punch is still to come.Elias_Maluco posted:Yeap. 1st season was one of the best TV I watched in many years. 2 and 3 were good too, specially 3. It got our expectations high.  qbert posted:This episode was still better than Books 4 and 5. Elias_Maluco posted:Now what happens to Theon, by the way? Im speculating that somehow Asha/Yara is going to bump at then and take him home and then we will have kingsmoot. Balon should probably finally die a little before that, maybe in in the next episode There's no reason to assume Theon goes to the kingsmoot. There's like 10 frames in the trailer of a dude that kinda looks like Theon at the Iron Islands, but if you pause it, it's clearly not him. Yet people keep saying this anyways.
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Apr 25, 2016 19:05
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counterfeitsaint posted:Did I miss a scene confirming that Davos actually knows what happened to Shireen? It seems unlikely that Mel is gonna fess us in the middle of her crisis of faith, especially to a man that will almost certainly try to kill her (again) over it. Last season finale when she shows up at the Wall, Davos goes "What happened? Is Shireen okay?" and she just stays silent and looks super sad and guilty. I think he put 2 and 2 together.
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Apr 25, 2016 19:09
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I feel like I watched a different show than you lot, because the episode was really well done. I am not sure I understand the criticism that, "things happened for no reason," because everything, except Dany's interaction with the Khalasar, had a good lead-in.
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Apr 25, 2016 19:15
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The dorne stuff is only good in a meta sense in that it looks like they recognize the mistake. I just hope they didnt axe doran for a bunch of sand snake garbage. But the way trystane and doran were killed was clownish and lovely in presentation. It was clearly a hasty abortion of an abandoned plot. It burdened the premiere with a bunch of lovely nonsense. Someone dissed bran earlier and whatever, if you dont like book bran we disagree, but it's obvious from the preseason information that hes gonna end up being pretty drat interesting
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Apr 25, 2016 19:19
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counterfeitsaint posted:There's no reason to assume Theon goes to the kingsmoot. There's like 10 frames in the trailer of a dude that kinda looks like Theon at the Iron Islands, but if you pause it, it's clearly not him. Yet people keep saying this anyways. Yeah, no. But I think they would want to have a main character there, specially since they will be introducing some new ones and Yara wanst seem for a long time Besides, what the hell Theon is gonna do with Brienne and Sansa anyway EDIT: hemophilia posted:The dorne stuff is only good in a meta sense in that it looks like they recognize the mistake. I just hope they didnt axe doran for a bunch of sand snake garbage. But the way trystane and doran were killed was clownish and lovely in presentation. It was clearly a hasty abortion of an abandoned plot. It burdened the premiere with a bunch of lovely nonsense.
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Apr 25, 2016 19:20
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I think "Theon at the Kingsmoot" came from a set spy, not the trailer.
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Apr 25, 2016 19:23
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Episode reminded me a lot of the House of Cards opener this season - it doesn't feel like something new so much as it feels like wrapping up/cutting out/intentionally forgetting plots that weren't really all that interesting. It took HoC about four episodes to shake off the previous lovely season (and it wasn't always nuanced about doing so) but when it did, the show really got compelling again. I'm going to be optimistic and hope the same thing happens here. I'm not entirely sure how to articulate this, but it seems like the writers are confusing shocking deaths with weighty ones. All of the good deaths had a strong dramatic irony behind them - Ser Alliser, for instance, a Targaryen loyalist, ignorantly killing the son of the man he fought for. Or Robb, another example - he broke his vows to the Freys and married his girlfriend because he's thinking of his honorable father's one shame: having a bastard. And of course that isn't even true. But Doran? If he'd died after revealing his plan to take down the Lannisters and Ellaria didn't know about it, okay, I'd accept that - she'd be killing him unaware they're both working toward the same goal. That, at least, has some weight. But getting clowned on the gout balcony just to whittle down the story a little? Turgid rear end.
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Apr 25, 2016 19:27
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