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anti-magic posted:The bonus damage for Trundle's Q counts as an on-hit effect (according to the LoL wiki) so that could double up but otherwise it is not a good item for Trundle because nothing else in his kit really compliments it. I don't think that Devourer Trundle is that good or anything, I'm just trying to explain what does and doesn't work with Sated Devourer.
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Apr 27, 2016 07:40
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Safety Scissors posted:Just wanted to point out that Olaf is the hardest scaling top champ with experience. If you look at the jump in win rate from 50-125 game to 125+ games it's a bit under 14%, ~45%-~59%. Technically, the hardest scaling is Nunu, but he only has 10 out of his 366 top games in the 125+ category. In comparison Olaf has 1,395 out of his 11,165 games played in the 125+ category. of course, this only holds true for top lane, whereas in the jungle its the exact opposite (to a lower magnitude). im gonna go out on a limb and say the applicability of experience numbers here is not good in general i wouldn't put much stock in experience numbers. as far as i can tell they correlate with nothing, including observations or other numbers Verviticus fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Apr 27, 2016 |
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Apr 27, 2016 07:48
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wait a second in all of those pictures the ping is ~20ms but mine is at ~70ms whats the deal
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Apr 27, 2016 07:54
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Luna Was Here posted:wait a second in all of those pictures the ping is ~20ms but mine is at ~70ms whats the deal Ping can be very server dependent, you may have gotten a lovely server for your test. In LoL stuff: Can anyone give me a Kha'zix crash course? I had only mild success in my first time playing as him last night my two big issues are: I'm currently only using my Ulti to reset the passive rather than as a tool for engage/disengage and I'm not sure what items are great; I see people say "Get Duskblade" but champion.gg has DD and TBC as the big winners.
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Apr 27, 2016 08:12
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Gridlocked posted:Ping can be very server dependent, you may have gotten a lovely server for your test. was probably the case, I think there are like 2 or 3 servers that are anywhere near me montana sucks yeah i just did one to denver and got 30 ping montana just blows
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Apr 27, 2016 08:17
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Gridlocked posted:Ping can be very server dependent, you may have gotten a lovely server for your test. Play him kind of like a mix between Talon and Rengo. Leap is your bestest friend foreverest and is an amazing engage/disengage tool. Really, your ult is more for engaging specific targets in a group of enemies and for cheap, early ganks, not your primary method. I can't get the build right enough to play him regularly, but Black Cleaver is great for not dying/taking on less squishy enemies and Ghostblade works wonders with the evolved Camo to make you into a real headache for the other team. Death's Dance has never been super high on my priority list, but I could see it having a similar use to BC if you take Dominik with it
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Apr 27, 2016 08:47
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I'm a LPB. This was on a wi-fi connection. Fiber-optic internet is pretty good! (the main EUW server is in Amsterdam, so that makes things really hunky-dory)
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Apr 27, 2016 09:36
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The Door Frame posted:Play him kind of like a mix between Talon and Rengo. I don't play Rango or Talon so sadly that advice is lost on me. I've been leveling up Leap last with only 1 point in it, and typically evolving it 2nd. Is The Bug a champ that I shouldn't be maxing certain things on too early or should I just be playing him with some more CDR runes to offset the low CD of leap at level 1?
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Apr 27, 2016 09:43
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the more i play graves, the more im not entirely sure the nerf actually happened. the most painful change feels, ironically, like the two bullets removed from crits because now you dont get a full refresh on your E i think his pointblank damage is so high that if someone's getting hit by it, they're probably loving dead anyways, so if your combo does 3% less damage, who the gently caress cares? you overkill them by like 70% if they're squishy. like this is two autos and an ult and in any reasonable time frame you can get 3 autos, a q and an ult. that combo would have done like 180% his max health  forgive the really garbage mechanics and the weirdly impossible to avoid green splash after the game, twitch: why did you have a pink ward in there
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Apr 27, 2016 09:53
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Gridlocked posted:I don't play Rango or Talon so sadly that advice is lost on me. Runes are the standard AD/Armor/MR/AD. You can rune for a minor amount of ArPen (generally no more than 6 because of your mastery pick-ups) but it's certainly not a necessity. 12/18/0 masteries. Items you want to buy to be a good Murder Bug: Warrior enchant jungle item (preferably Ward version, Blue smite version if you don't use vision because you're bad), Death's Dance, Black Cleaver, Maw (generic AD shitlord stuff). You'll get 40% CDR through itemization, assuming you do well enough to afford poo poo. Kha'zix ganks start out feeling a lot like CC-less J4 ganks: walk menacingly at them and use your gap-closer when they blow a movement ability. If you don't suck at skillshots your W also provides a minor slow which can help keep your laner in the gank. Don't worry about Leap's cooldown. Kha'zix starts getting most potent around mid-game (level 11-14) since you'll typically have jungle item + 1 complete item + parts for your next (maybe even done if you've been doing well), and you'll start having the executing power to really gently caress up some squishies. Since your power spike happens around level 11 your mobility from Leap becomes more or less a moot point issue, since Leaping in to kill addes damage and if you get the kill (you had better otherwise you're probably dead) you can Leap out. You can chain Leap if you rock at executing goobers, otherwise you just get in and out. There's not a ton of nuance to him, just don't use Leap to initiate ganks because it's almost always telegraphed and almost always means you put yourself out of team support range and into die-if-you-don't-kill-them territory.
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Apr 27, 2016 10:03
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Mikujin posted:Start W, level Q then E then R>Q>W>E, evolving Q>E>W. (What you've been doing from what I gather.) Thank you Mikujin. Few quick questions: Roughly where in the build am I looking at Boot upgrades for him? I'm kinda used to champs that either rush boots out because they are all about that MS or ones who don't care if they are on Browns for a while. Also I'm going to assume going for Swifties unless they are heavy on the Tenacity-aligned stuff in which case get them. I notice you don't mention Duskblade, is this because it's a trap? Any advice on clearing w/r/t Isolating big mobs for Q? Normally on junglers I kill the big thing first unless it's Raptors. Is it actaully faster on the Bug to kill the friends first so you can get maximum damage on Q's on to the biggun? Gridlocked fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Apr 27, 2016 |
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Apr 27, 2016 10:09
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Mikujin posted:use your gap-closer when they blow a movement ability. gonna pick this out and re-iterate that a variation of this should be the golden rule of league of legends: dont gap close backwards Verviticus fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Apr 27, 2016 |
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Apr 27, 2016 10:10
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Devourer Trundle works like every other tanky melee champion works with devourer; by buying Titanic Hydra immediately after, then going straight tank. It's not real good on him because he really wants to be beefy immediately, but that is definitely a combo that will step on dudes if you are allowed to farm devourer in a timely manner. It's just kind of unreliable: see; shyvanas getting 3 stacks at 21 minutes because you denied them 2 dragons and a crab Devourer without Titanic, including bork, is utter garbage. Titanic Hydra literally makes Devourer builds work for 9 of the 10 devourer junglers.
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Apr 27, 2016 10:20
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Verviticus posted:dont gap close backwards This is like a PSA to all the people learning to play J4 like 2-3 seasons ago, who would routinely walk into top lane to gank then flag and drag towards their allied turret to knock a dude and be all "IM HALPING  "
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Apr 27, 2016 10:20
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He means 'dont gap close until you actually need to close the gap', not 'dont gap close away from your enemy'
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Apr 27, 2016 10:22
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This is why you're gold mikujin
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Apr 27, 2016 10:23
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Mikujin posted:This is like a PSA to all the people learning to play J4 like 2-3 seasons ago, who would routinely walk into top lane to gank then flag and drag towards their allied turret to knock a dude and be all "IM HALPING Ahh the old J4 tries to E-Q only to have the laner flash away the moment they see the E go down and J4 is left in the lurch.
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Apr 27, 2016 10:24
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No one even plays Trundle in the jungle any more. Nidalee/Graves/Kindred are so dominant in clear speed that to justify picking something else you need to bring major team fight presence (esp. hard engage) to compensate for the inevitable gold deficit. Trundle's Pillar and R are more utility/support, so he doesn't make the cut.
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Apr 27, 2016 10:37
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Did someone in this thread seriously post that he was Bronze 3 now so he's really improved quite a bit, honest. After more testing, I'm pretty sure Bronze 3 requires actual brain damage and/or massively impaired motor skills to achieve.
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Apr 27, 2016 12:04
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Aerox posted:City great. *crys*
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Apr 27, 2016 12:20
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NTT posted:Devourer Trundle works like every other tanky melee champion works with devourer; by buying Titanic Hydra immediately after, then going straight tank. Even after Titanic's nerfs, I still devourer + titanic is incredibly good. You can buy that poo poo on everyone from Master Yi to Xin to Tryndamere to X tanky champion and it works. e: although of course it won't matter after devourer gets gutted Sexpansion fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Apr 27, 2016 |
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Apr 27, 2016 13:09
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Ya; the AD on the item was not the reason that it was strong. The nerf cuts into a tiny part of your damage but frankly titanic's cleave is about 3x better than Hydra because A. it's instant and B. the full damage is applied to the whole cone, instead of it doing almost 0 damage after a single teemo's distance. Plus it procs twice with devourer as well, so you get to deal absurd amounts of AoE sustained damage while getting a 400 HP headstart on your tankiness. Hydra's sustain is worthless on a jungler with 2 ad items and no tank. You will get munched and killed real easy unless they literally 1v1 you 5 times.
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Apr 27, 2016 13:18
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gnoma posted:No one even plays Trundle in the jungle any more. Nidalee/Graves/Kindred are so dominant in clear speed that to justify picking something else you need to bring major team fight presence (esp. hard engage) to compensate for the inevitable gold deficit. Trundle's Pillar and R are more utility/support, so he doesn't make the cut. When the +10% CDR changes go through on Abyssal/Zhonya's, that's really going to warp item builds to favor mage supports and AP junglers I think. Those 2 + AP Enchant/CDR Boots/Runes or Blue Buff and you could have a 3-item Max CDR Nidalee who still has considerable movement/armor/MR/survivability. That's going to be pretty insane. Maybe you'll see some more Fiddlesticks or jungle Rumble start to become a thing again. Graves / Kindred currently benefit enormously from the AD Itemization rework giving them a lot of budget and power options depending on game outlook and their clear and durability lets them carry while not sacrificing survival. NTT posted:Devourer Trundle works like every other tanky melee champion works with devourer; by buying Titanic Hydra immediately after, then going straight tank. I feel like my continued problem with Devourer + anything Junglers is that it simply isn't as compelling as building any of the top tier champions in one of the other three ways. If you aren't playing Nid/Graves/Kindred, you probably want an insane team fight ultimate on a tank or you've probably picked a subpar jungler.
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Apr 27, 2016 14:16
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Libertine posted:When the +10% CDR changes go through on Abyssal/Zhonya's, that's really going to warp item builds to favor mage supports and AP junglers I think. Those 2 + AP Enchant/CDR Boots/Runes or Blue Buff and you could have a 3-item Max CDR Nidalee who still has considerable movement/armor/MR/survivability. That's going to be pretty insane. Maybe you'll see some more Fiddlesticks or jungle Rumble start to become a thing again. This just provides more support for my "Fire Nidalee into the Sun" theory.
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Apr 27, 2016 14:44
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If by Tank Karma you guys are referring to full build only resists, then I agree that it is terrible. However you can build her bruisery and be effective. Namely I like Abyssal, Spirit Visage, Liandry's, and rarely Iceborne Gauntlet. I wish Moonflair Spellblade existed in SR, it would give AP bruisers some actual resists edit: gently caress Nidalee though also re: Titanic Hydra nerf I thought was specifically aimed at toplane just building T Hydra and nothing but resists and still owning squishies in like 3 hits, so they hit the AD a bit. Also Devourer is getting removed again or whatever so it will be dead soon. That and Fiora's passive getting nerfed led me to never build tank Fiora again and just go full AD/Lifesteal, as God intended How Rude fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Apr 27, 2016 |
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Apr 27, 2016 14:49
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Apr 27, 2016 15:22
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Apr 27, 2016 15:27
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How Rude posted:That and Fiora's passive getting nerfed led me to never build tank Fiora again and just go full AD/Lifesteal, as God intended Tank fiora was a disgusting abomination that went against everything that champ should stand for
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Apr 27, 2016 16:07
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How Rude posted:If by Tank Karma you guys are referring to full build only resists, then I agree that it is terrible. Off tank karma makes as much sense as off tank lulu: none
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Apr 27, 2016 16:10
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Libertine posted:When the +10% CDR changes go through on Abyssal/Zhonya's, that's really going to warp item builds to favor mage supports and AP junglers I think. Those 2 + AP Enchant/CDR Boots/Runes or Blue Buff and you could have a 3-item Max CDR Nidalee who still has considerable movement/armor/MR/survivability. That's going to be pretty insane. Maybe you'll see some more Fiddlesticks or jungle Rumble start to become a thing again. I'm curious why you think the ap item changes will benefit rumble jungle? I admittedly only glanced through the itemization changes so I very well could be missing obvious things, but he really only wants cdr for his ult and any mana on him is a waste. I still think he'll be a decent jungler after the changes, I just feel like his improvement won't be as noticeable as, say, a nidalee or Diana jungle
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Apr 27, 2016 16:14
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Can someone explain to this poor noob how warwick has a high winrate even though he's all single target. Also his ult seems to do way more damage than the wiki implies.
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Apr 27, 2016 16:20
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Ristolaz posted:Can someone explain to this poor noob how warwick has a high winrate even though he's all single target. Also his ult seems to do way more damage than the wiki implies. Have you ever tried to get pubs to group up
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Apr 27, 2016 16:20
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Ristolaz posted:Can someone explain to this poor noob how warwick has a high winrate even though he's all single target. Also his ult seems to do way more damage than the wiki implies. His ult is really good for ganks, he has passive sustain which also makes his jungle clear much harder to gently caress up, he has a speed boost to chase down low health people. He's just generally quite difficult to gently caress up. You just have to get your jungle camps and then once you hit 6 you have to walk into a lane with a person even mildly out of position and you've probably got a kill.
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Apr 27, 2016 16:23
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Primetime posted:I'm curious why you think the ap item changes will benefit rumble jungle? He really, really wants cdr on his ulti though, rumble's effectiveness is very closely tied to his ulti cd, in any position, especially now that he's less of a bully. Abyssal and Zhonyas are both core on him already, still won't give mana but will let him get much more cdr than before while stil getting the stats/active/passives he really likes. Also, in the jungle he actually really likes cdr to overheat and auto down camps/counter jungle as well (although by the time he's gotten 2 or 3 items this probably won't be an issue as much, to be fair). He was never a top tier jungle, but the difference between a Rumble with synergistic items and 10% cdr and one with good items and 30% cdr, plus the ulti cd buff, should be pretty significant. He probably won't be as strong as Nidalee, but I think it'll make more of a difference for him than Diana, at least in terms of play rate (but we'll see). I'm also excited for what this will mean for Fiddlesticks, he already felt really good with some cdr but it was awkward to build before.
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Apr 27, 2016 16:29
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RIP ZEEZ
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Verviticus posted:of course, this only holds true for top lane, whereas in the jungle its the exact opposite (to a lower magnitude). im gonna go out on a limb and say the applicability of experience numbers here is not good I have no idea if you're taking about Nunu, Olaf, or something else entirely. Verviticus posted:in general i wouldn't put much stock in experience numbers. as far as i can tell they correlate with nothing, including observations or other numbers I would have to completely disagree. My observation is that almost all champions fit into one of tow subgroups that have a very strong correlation between win rate and player experience. The first subgroup is the "well rounded" champions that generally fit a logarithmic regression. The more you play these guys the higher the win rate. The second subgroup is the "counterplayable" champions that generally fit a polynomial regression. These champions peak with moderate experience and fall off with heavy experience. This is most likely because they require specific options to be absent from the enemy team, riot talk "lack of counterplay," to do well, so picking them all the time is a bad idea.
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Apr 27, 2016 16:30
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Ristolaz posted:Can someone explain to this poor noob how warwick has a high winrate even though he's all single target. Also his ult seems to do way more damage than the wiki implies. the ult's damage by itself is anemic but it applies his on-hit effects every swing, including his passive, which adds up. warwick is ridiculously good at full-nelsoning single target picks for his team and maintaining vision on enemies that get low for the cleanup crew to take advantage of, makes his team take objectives ridiculously fast, and becomes ridiculously hard to fight late-game or when he gets far enough ahead. he has lots of weaknesses but if he catches someone out and it's suddenly a 5v4 those tend to disappear.
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Apr 27, 2016 16:31
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Ristolaz posted:Can someone explain to this poor noob how warwick has a high winrate even though he's all single target. Also his ult seems to do way more damage than the wiki implies. Guys that don't die easy are good. Click stuns are good. Guys that do stuff (visions, attack speed boost, % damage, click stun) while behind are good because they enable comebacks and are still good if ahead. From watching win rates in Dota and League for a while, champs that can make a comeback and have more idiot-proof execution win more games. Amumu has been a top 10 if not top 5 win rate champ for what? 5 years? I think he sees less success at the highest level but he never becomes bad. Idiot-proof is a bit uncharitable too, since stronger opponents will give you more opportunities to make mistakes, and removing or reducing that is good stuff. If you're looking for a champ that will give you the most payoff for learning them inside and out and spamming several hundred games on, they might not be the best choices (or maybe they're still good, I dunno), but are otherwise solid, especially if you have no particular preference for any pick.
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Apr 27, 2016 16:39
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so I assume we're all spamming Galio next patch while the rest of the world attempts to play the mages in every role, right?
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Apr 27, 2016 16:53
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I'm too lazy to go through all the mage item changes coming up, does TF benefit from any of them?
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Apr 27, 2016 17:47
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Servaetes posted:That's pretty much what I'm getting at. Like I'd accept like Triforce/Muramana/??? or a shitload of damage items but jesus christ I mean, I agree that there's not anywhere near enough damage on that particular person, you want something like RoA or Liandry's + FH + Visage as your core, but the thing with building Karma tanky is it means she gets to stick around to be useful in the lategame instead of just dying like a wet noodle. Karma top in general isn't particularly good right now but building her somewhat tanky in the mid-lategame is at least better than building straight AP like most Karma players seem to do. 
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