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AllanGordon
Jan 26, 2010

by Shine

homeless poster posted:

provided that TRUMP wins the general, I wonder if conservatives will have the same kind of milquetoast indifference towards the fact that after 8 years there was never actually a wall built across the US/Mexico border, in the same way that liberals currently have a milquetoast indifference towards the fact that after 8 years Obama never closed gitmo. like will they blame an intractable congress and senate on TRUMP's inability to build a wall too, or will they concoct even more outlandish scenarios?

The wall is already there lol

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Bernice Anders
Feb 26, 2016

by zen death robot

Majorian posted:

You realize Congressional intractability is literally the reason why Gitmo was never closed, right?

lol speaking of milquetoast indifference

as halfway crooks
Mar 7, 2007

by Shine

Korelle posted:

It would be nice to at least have a few pages to enjoy the electoral chaos without having Majorian poo poo up the thread with a constant stream of painfully terrible posts.

no no no
i used to feel the same way
but then i realized he only feels compelled to do it when trump is dominating the narrative
think of him like the canary in the coal mine
except instead of warning of dangerous gas he actually produces and inhales his own dangerous gas and warns of america being great again
its a metaphor you see

Anne Frank Funk
Nov 4, 2008

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/bgittleson/status/725765632965369857

Apparently Sandra Williams doesn't give a gently caress about qualifying her ironic signatures.

That's just him admitting to Zodiac killings, "this" is his signature, "this" is Ted Cruz, "this" is the Zodiac signing.

sincx
Jul 13, 2012

furiously masturbating to anime titties
I like how the Cruz-iCarly mashup didn't even last 12 hours before the news narrative literally turned into Cruz = Satan.

I was born too late to explore the seas, and too early to explore the stars, but at just the right time to experience the most riduclous election in the history of the most powerful country that's ever existed.

Fidel Cuckstro
Jul 2, 2007

Some helpful suggestions on how to use this image over the next few days:

Polls show Cruz is dead:


Polls show Trump's win streak will stop:


Kaisch chokes on sandwich:

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/cafedotcom/status/725464561852289024

my bony fealty
Oct 1, 2008

zoux posted:

Ah so this stunning takedown of HRC and Trump is why Cruz brought Carly on board.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N30_sbtE0gE

just lmao @ the Cruz/Carly attempt to portray Trump as "the system"

I'm the Trump supporter who watches this ad and thinks my god, Carly is right, Donald Trump has been the real Washington insider all along

Jewel Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

William Bear posted:

I like the idea that Donald Trump is some kind of cyborg with an augmented reality display of every person he sees' energy level.

Lol

No Mans Land
Feb 26, 2016

by Cowcaster

Majorian posted:

You realize Congressional intractability is literally the reason why Gitmo was never closed, right?

They couldnt put the remaining prisoners on US soil when they were never charged with a crime, and they couldnt wrangle them out of the military system to charge them in the federal courts, but im not surprised you dont know the details

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


homeless poster posted:

provided that TRUMP wins the general, I wonder if conservatives will have the same kind of milquetoast indifference towards the fact that after 8 years there was never actually a wall built across the US/Mexico border, in the same way that liberals currently have a milquetoast indifference towards the fact that after 8 years Obama never closed gitmo. like will they blame an intractable congress and senate on TRUMP's inability to build a wall too, or will they concoct even more outlandish scenarios?

lol if you think we'll have elections 8 years after trump wins.






alternatively: he will pick a successor candidate who will also promise to build the wall and finish what he started
"After I'm elected, the first thing I'll do is finish that wall!"
and the crowd goes wild

Oiled and Ready
Oct 11, 2004

He wished it could be as respectable and orthodox as spying. But somehow in his hands the traditional tools and attitudes were always employed toward mean ends: cloak for a laundry sack, dagger to peel potatoes, dossiers to fill up dead Sunday afternoons ...

Helical Nightmares posted:

I'll take a look.

But my point stands. Psycho-history is not real. No one is a Hari Seldon. Historical trends can be useful but are not deterministic. Same with stock market trends. The future cannot be predicted.

Uh psychohistory IS real, it's just that Trump is the mule, we've been over this. And David Rockefeller is Seldon.

Oiled and Ready
Oct 11, 2004

He wished it could be as respectable and orthodox as spying. But somehow in his hands the traditional tools and attitudes were always employed toward mean ends: cloak for a laundry sack, dagger to peel potatoes, dossiers to fill up dead Sunday afternoons ...

This is the best loving thing, i can't stop laughing

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.

Korelle posted:

It would be nice to at least have a few pages to enjoy the electoral chaos without having Majorian poo poo up the thread with a constant stream of painfully terrible posts.

You haven't had him blocked for months? It's smooth sailing

Oiled and Ready
Oct 11, 2004

He wished it could be as respectable and orthodox as spying. But somehow in his hands the traditional tools and attitudes were always employed toward mean ends: cloak for a laundry sack, dagger to peel potatoes, dossiers to fill up dead Sunday afternoons ...

This is precisely the kind of reaction Trump is trying to get. Yes, in October what he said would be very bad for him. But by getting Hillary to continue to play up her "I'm a woman, fellow women!" now, he opens up a lot of attack options down the line.

Helical Nightmares
Apr 30, 2009

homeless poster posted:

provided that TRUMP wins the general, I wonder if conservatives will have the same kind of milquetoast indifference towards the fact that after 8 years there was never actually a wall built across the US/Mexico border, in the same way that liberals currently have a milquetoast indifference towards the fact that after 8 years Obama never closed gitmo. like will they blame an intractable congress and senate on TRUMP's inability to build a wall too, or will they concoct even more outlandish scenarios?

Who you kidding. It's the latter all the way.


Oiled and Ready posted:

Uh psychohistory IS real, it's just that Trump is the mule, we've been over this. And David Rockefeller is Seldon.

:iamafag:

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Oiled and Ready posted:

This is precisely the kind of reaction Trump is trying to get. Yes, in October what he said would be very bad for him. But by getting Hillary to continue to play up her "I'm a woman, fellow women!" now, he opens up a lot of attack options down the line.

Like what

Bernice Anders
Feb 26, 2016

by zen death robot

Oiled and Ready posted:

This is precisely the kind of reaction Trump is trying to get. Yes, in October what he said would be very bad for him. But by getting Hillary to continue to play up her "I'm a woman, fellow women!" now, he opens up a lot of attack options down the line.

Exactly. He's really the best at this that anyone's seen.

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:

zoux posted:

Like what

She will lose the valuable misogyny coalition

as halfway crooks
Mar 7, 2007

by Shine
wow new dilbert blog already we are blessed
dilbert blog is an approved news source for any aspiring hari seldon
"can trump change the frame on his perceived sexism?"

dilbert blog posted:

Donald Trump called John Kasich “disgusting” for how he eats. Trump insulted Rand Paul’s looks. He said Rubio was sweaty and little. He mocked a disabled guy (an enemy reporter) who has a bad arm. Ted Cruz turned into “lyin’ Ted” and Jeb Bush got tagged with the “low energy” kill shot.

Trump also said, “Look at that face” about Carly Fiorina. He made a reference to Megyn Kelly bleeding from “wherever” and he calls Hillary Clinton “crooked” nearly every day.

What do you call it when a man insults his enemies who are both male and female? Democrats call it a “woman problem.” And indeed it is. Here I remind you that reason is not part of persuasion. If the public sees Trump as having a “woman problem” then he does.

So how could he fix it?

Reason won’t work, but persuasion might. As a trained persuader, I’ll tell you how I would approach it if I were him. I’ll present it as an imaginary interview with Megyn Kelly.

Kelly: Mr. Trump, people say you’re a sexist.

Trump: What would be an example of something where you and I have different opinions on gender, Megyn?

Did you catch the technique?

If Trump simply lists all the things he wants to do for women, such as make the country safer and richer, that goes a little ways toward helping his case, but not enough. What he needs to do is change the frame from “This is what Trump says” to “This is what women say, and Trump agrees.”

You can pick apart anything Trump says and label it sexist, the same way you can pick apart anyone who says anything. But if Trump asks a woman – especially a conservative woman – how her views are different from his, the frame changes. Context matters.

For example, do you remember when Apple’s iPhone had the problem of losing a connection if you held it a certain way? When viewed in isolation, it seemed that the iPhone had a bug, which it did. So how did Steve Jobs fix this massive PR problem with one sentence?

He changed the frame.

Jobs got on a conference call with the press and said, “All smartphones have problems.”

Boom.

The headlines the next day were that all smartphones have problems. And indeed they do. Jobs ended that entire problem with…one…sentence. All he did was change the frame. Trump can do the same.

In Trump’s case, he needs to change the frame from defending a long list of offensive statements to how his opinions differ from anyone else’s opinion. For example, does anyone disagree with equal pay for equal work? Does anyone disagree with better healthcare for pregnant women? Trump’s opinions on gender issues are mostly the same as everyone else’s.

Abortion is a big exception, obviously. Here’s how Trump could change the frame on abortion.

Kelly: You said women should be “punished” for getting illegal abortions, and then you changed your position the next day. Should women be punished for getting illegal abortions?

Trump: The first time I heard that question, my initial reaction was that anyone who breaks a law should be punished. But lots of folks explained to me why this is a special case and needs to stay that way. So once I heard a better argument I quickly adjusted. It’s rare to have a crime that has no punishment, but it makes sense in this case.

That changes the frame from “Trump wants to punish women" to “This is a rare case where a crime should have no punishment.” It also demonstrates his flexibility in the face of a better argument. And since Trump is running as a citizen-politician, we expect him to do some catch-up on the issues.

Obviously Trump could pick a woman as a VP running mate. And Trump can also make his case for being the best “protector” of women because of immigration risks. Both of those approaches are strong persuasion. But the main thing he needs to do is change the frame to make two things clear:

1. He is an equal-opportunity offender. He insults anyone who attacks first.

2. His views on gender issues are mostly the same as everyone else’s.

That’s how you change the frame.

Disclaimer: I don’t endorse Trump or anyone else. My political views do not align with any of the candidates and I have no psychic powers to predict who would do the best job as president. My interests are in Trump’s persuasion skills.

dilbert blog -> predictit in 2016 if you want to be rich

Louisgod
Sep 25, 2003

Always Watching
Bread Liar

Where the gently caress is my men's card?? I need something to go with my tshirt

Typo
Aug 19, 2009

Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes
Trump

*click*

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


Oiled and Ready posted:

This is precisely the kind of reaction Trump is trying to get.

I think "precisely the kind of reaction he was trying to get" was cheers from the crowd of trump supporters he was talking to.

It seems people have shifted from "Trump is a moron who nobody will ever vote for" to "Trump is actually Kevin loving Spacey and underneath that dopey orange exterior he is a cold, calculating machine that is manipulating the world and playing us all like chess pieces". They still aren't right. Donald Trump is Donald Trump. He's breaking the system because it turns out the system had gaping holes in it that everyone ignored and it was just asking to be broken, all it required was shouting what he thought people would like to hear and calling corrupt politicians corrupt.. Him beating Cruz is not an absurd miracle or the result of a convoluted long-con that would make an anime villain blush, because Cruz is an absurdly unlikable goon that the Republicans were stupid to ever think would be President and they're even more stupid for being in denial about this fact. They're even more stupid for announcing to the world that they'd have two candidates collaborating in order to keep the popular vote from mattering and leave the decision up to a closed council of detached elites and that people would just be okay with this. They bathed in gasoline, lit and match, and are now looking around starstruck wondering how everything is suddenly on fire.

Augus fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Apr 28, 2016

Schnorkles
Apr 30, 2015

It's a little bit juvenile, but it's simple and it's timeless.

We let it be known that Schnorkles, for a snack, eats tiny pieces of shit.

You're picturing it and you're talking about it. That's a win in my book.

Peachstapler posted:

Oregon Poll (thanks C7ty1) from Hoffman Research Group:

Trump 43
Cruz 26
Kasich 17

Telephone based poll with 555 Republican voters (MOE 4.2%). And here's your gem:


Pollster has also indicated the Cruz-Kasich deal could have backfired with voters. “I think that just got a lot of people fed up,” said Nashif, referring to the deal. He said voters tend not to like such gamesmanship.

Well now.

Well now indeed.

Oiled and Ready
Oct 11, 2004

He wished it could be as respectable and orthodox as spying. But somehow in his hands the traditional tools and attitudes were always employed toward mean ends: cloak for a laundry sack, dagger to peel potatoes, dossiers to fill up dead Sunday afternoons ...

zoux posted:

Like what

I don't know, I'm not Trump, but giving out literal women's cards plays into his narrative that if you're a smart person regardless of gender you shouldn't vote for the person who wants the job based on their gender. I'm eager to see what he does with it after goading her into making that kind of move 100 more times before August.

Oiled and Ready
Oct 11, 2004

He wished it could be as respectable and orthodox as spying. But somehow in his hands the traditional tools and attitudes were always employed toward mean ends: cloak for a laundry sack, dagger to peel potatoes, dossiers to fill up dead Sunday afternoons ...

Augus posted:

I think "precisely the kind of reaction he was trying to get" was cheers from the crowd of trump supporters he was talking to.

It seems people have shifted from "Trump is a moron who nobody will ever vote for" to "Trump is actually Kevin loving Spacey and underneath that dopey orange exterior he is a cold, calculating machine that is manipulating the world and playing us all like chess pieces".

I shifted to that about 6 months ago and it's been working fairly well every single day since. Meanwhile the wailing from people like you never ends but it never seems to matter!

E: also he doubled down in an interview so I donno what crowd of people cheering you're talking about

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Oiled and Ready posted:

I don't know, I'm not Trump, but giving out literal women's cards plays into his narrative that if you're a smart person regardless of gender you shouldn't vote for the person who wants the job based on their gender. I'm eager to see what he does with it after goading her into making that kind of move 100 more times before August.

Let me go ahead and stop you there: "Woman Card" is an unmitigated disaster of a statement that is going to dog him until November.

sharkbomb
Feb 9, 2005

Oiled and Ready posted:

This is precisely the kind of reaction Trump is trying to get. Yes, in October what he said would be very bad for him. But by getting Hillary to continue to play up her "I'm a woman, fellow women!" now, he opens up a lot of attack options down the line.

lmao, what does this even mean?

You think this is going to be some kind of self-limiting angle of attack for the Clinton campaign? Like they're going to hit October and be shrugging their shoulders because they shot their wad during the Spring?

Oiled and Ready
Oct 11, 2004

He wished it could be as respectable and orthodox as spying. But somehow in his hands the traditional tools and attitudes were always employed toward mean ends: cloak for a laundry sack, dagger to peel potatoes, dossiers to fill up dead Sunday afternoons ...

zoux posted:

Let me go ahead and stop you there: "Woman Card" is an unmitigated disaster of a statement that is going to dog him until November.

I have been stopped in my tracks. You are wrong, though, it will dog him to a fever pitch at some point in the narrative (debate one?), which he will choose, then something will happen and you'll be asking how the gently caress Hillary is so bad at running a campaign and there'll be talk of 2008 and Sanders etc etc

Then people like you will act like you called it.

Epic High Five
Jun 5, 2004



Lol the woman card line of attack would probably lose steam against like, Scott Walker, but it'll get stronger and stronger against Trump because any time the DNC sees women ticking up in favorability for him they'll just play another Stern tape where he says J Lo is too ugly and therefore shouldn't be successful or some poo poo

Typo
Aug 19, 2009

Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

Oiled and Ready posted:

I don't know, I'm not Trump, but giving out literal women's cards plays into his narrative that if you're a smart person regardless of gender you shouldn't vote for the person who wants the job based on their gender. I'm eager to see what he does with it after goading her into making that kind of move 100 more times before August.

clinton playing the gender card doesn't come off nearly as badly irl as it does on reddit

a lot of women really do want to see the first female president and sexism to them is a real actual phenomenon they deal with. especially older voters who votes reliably.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Well well well looks like we all owe Ted Cruz an apology.
https://twitter.com/RichardGrenell/status/725759923200520192


Oiled and Ready posted:

I have been stopped in my tracks. You are wrong, though, it will dog him to a fever pitch at some point in the narrative (debate one?), which he will choose, then something will happen and you'll be asking how the gently caress Hillary is so bad at running a campaign and there'll be talk of 2008 and Sanders etc etc

Then people like you will act like you called it.

Ok buddy.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


Oiled and Ready posted:

I shifted to that about 6 months ago and it's been working fairly well every single day since.

Then I'm afraid you're missing the point.

No Mans Land
Feb 26, 2016

by Cowcaster
He doesn't necessarily have to be cold and calculating and be all "if Clinton does this I will do this" for every possible scenario, that's some poo poo that a big machine of a campaign would pay an army of consultants to map out and it wouldn't be or come off organic. What Trump does is he gets inside his opponent's heads and so it becomes a very natural process to draw their weaknesses out of them.

A lot of his haters just don't seem to get what level he's operating at. Neither cold and calculating or completely off the cuff, he's disciplined yet unpredictable because he knows how to read people and situations. He's a real politician. Doesn't need an army of professionals around him tell him how to read situations. Of course, that will become more helpful as time goes on as the campaign gets more complicated, and a Presidency is obviously even more complicated than that with a higher learning curve. But that basic instinct will always be a huge strength. IMO Trump has personal qualities that many people aspire to have.

Cue the "ha, like racist and sexist? :smuggo:

AllanGordon
Jan 26, 2010

by Shine

zoux posted:

Let me go ahead and stop you there: "Woman Card" is an unmitigated disaster of a statement that is going to dog him until November.

Prob true if people didn't remember the hatred Hillary supporters felt towards Barry in 08 after he won the nomination

Agronox
Feb 4, 2005

Oiled and Ready posted:

I don't know, I'm not Trump, but giving out literal women's cards plays into his narrative that if you're a smart person regardless of gender you shouldn't vote for the person who wants the job based on their gender. I'm eager to see what he does with it after goading her into making that kind of move 100 more times before August.

Haha, what? Isn't it obvious that HRC is doing that as a response to Trump's comments?

It's not a funny joke, but it's a joke.

Montasque
Jul 18, 2003

Living in a hateful world sending me straight to Heaven

Louisgod posted:

Where the gently caress is my men's card?? I need something to go with my tshirt



Trump got the MRA vote on LOCK!

Slate Action
Feb 13, 2012

by exmarx
https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/725704920851185664

:eyepop:

Oiled and Ready
Oct 11, 2004

He wished it could be as respectable and orthodox as spying. But somehow in his hands the traditional tools and attitudes were always employed toward mean ends: cloak for a laundry sack, dagger to peel potatoes, dossiers to fill up dead Sunday afternoons ...

sharkbomb posted:

lmao, what does this even mean?

You think this is going to be some kind of self-limiting angle of attack for the Clinton campaign? Like they're going to hit October and be shrugging their shoulders because they shot their wad during the Spring?

"Hillary thinks she gets your vote because you're a woman. She's entitled, but women are smart enough to vote for who will do a better job." This is the frame, and the more times he can get Hillary to make a "he can't say that about us women, right ladies?" move the more ammo he'll have when he turns to that frame in the fall.

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Typo
Aug 19, 2009

Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

Oiled and Ready posted:

"Hillary thinks she gets your vote because you're a woman. She's entitled, but women are smart enough to vote for who will do a better job." This is the frame, and the more times he can get Hillary to make a "he can't say that about us women, right ladies?" move the more ammo he'll have when he turns to that frame in the fall.

this is what a bunch of dudes on reddit believes but doesn't correspond very well with real life

even palin did well with women until the couric interviews or so, her announcement as vp literally flipped women voters like 20 points in mccain's favor overnight

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