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So WOTC released Zendikar as a setting for 5e. Why cross their IPs like this now? Why not a decade ago? Why ever?
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:22 |
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# ? May 9, 2024 14:06 |
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And also 'why do this in the laziest, least effort manner possible' if you want to keep adding questions.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:24 |
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I assume the MtG section didn't want the D&D section loving up mechanics for colored magic and summoning and the like.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:32 |
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My guess is more 'this was offloaded onto an intern who did it over the course of a weekend because no one cared about it'.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:34 |
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This isn't new news, but I recently learned that D&D was mentioned in a Hasbro quarterly report as one of several brands on the upswing, the profits from which more than offset losses from several brands that had taken a downturn. I had heard D&D 5 sold well; does this indicate plans to treat the brand more seriously? Not that long ago we were talking about how D&D had become a legacy brand.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:41 |
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psychopomp posted:So WOTC released Zendikar as a setting for 5e. Why cross their IPs like this now? Why not a decade ago? Why ever? Ice Age was the best setting though
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:46 |
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Halloween Jack posted:I had heard D&D 5 sold well; does this indicate plans to treat the brand more seriously? I was at PAX East last weekend, and there was barely a D&D presence there. They had some tables set up and were running the new Ravenloft thing, but they were over in a back corner, and the only real indication they were there was a single standee Strahd banner. It wasn't even being run by WotC; it was outsourced to some other company. And yeah PAX is more video games than tabletop, but back in the 4e era WotC had about a quarter of the tabletop area dedicated to demo tables with a huge billboard-esque sign over the whole thing. The one year I ran 4e demos for them they had something like 30-40 tables, and there wasn't a moment all day there was a gap in people wanting to try 4e out. Now they get a dozen tables stuffed in a back corner away from the main walking lines of the tabletop area and a rinky-dink sign.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:48 |
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Iron Crowned posted:Ice Age was the best setting though Yeah but they're avoiding Dominaria after the Time Spiral block for reasons.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:48 |
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Iron Crowned posted:Ice Age was the best setting though That's a weird way to spell Fallen Empires/Homelands.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:50 |
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I would say that the uptick of D&D as a brand has more to do with, say, the resurgence of Baldur's Gate than it does with the actual tabletop game. Brand isn't the same as product.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:51 |
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Halloween Jack posted:This isn't new news, but I recently learned that D&D was mentioned in a Hasbro quarterly report as one of several brands on the upswing, the profits from which more than offset losses from several brands that had taken a downturn. I had heard D&D 5 sold well; does this indicate plans to treat the brand more seriously? Not that long ago we were talking about how D&D had become a legacy brand. That is good news, but it really depends on how management responds to this news. Their downsizing efforts suggests a philosophy of "this is vestigial," but, if it's on the upswing, they might be willing to increase production size and put some more effort in putting out substantial products, instead of just adventures. However, an unfortunate reality of business is that a lot of it comes down to how management responds, regardless of facts and figures. Facts and figures might say "it sold better than expected and is on the upswing," but management, who has been downsizing the project which suggests a lack of faith, may view this success as an anomaly. However, they have been trying to build the brand (things like the attempted movie) so that may also mean management was downsizing due to reality with the hopes thing turn around and this is the proof they needed to justify changing course. Of course, decisions don't exist in a vacuum. WotC might view this as "this on the upswing...but, we can probably make more on Magic." Or "this is on the upswing...but, will it last?" Honestly, just spit balling here.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:51 |
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Terrible Opinions posted:That's a weird way to spell Fallen Empires/Homelands.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:55 |
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Covok posted:That is good news, but it really depends on how management responds to this news. Their downsizing efforts suggests a philosophy of "this is vestigial," but, if it's on the upswing, they might be willing to increase production size and put some more effort in putting out substantial products, instead of just adventures. However, an unfortunate reality of business is that a lot of it comes down to how management responds, regardless of facts and figures. Facts and figures might say "it sold better than expected and is on the upswing," but management, who has been downsizing the project which suggests a lack of faith, may view this success as an anomaly. However, they have been trying to build the brand (things like the attempted movie) so that may also mean management was downsizing due to reality with the hopes thing turn around and this is the proof they needed to justify changing course. Also, on the upswing from what. It's definitely an upswing from the lull between Heroes of the Elemental Chaos and before the PHB came out. It'd be interesting to see actual book sales numbers on something like the SCAG vs the Ravenloft adventure.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:56 |
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Finally, you can play a summoned creature in a tiny piece of the Magic: the Gathering setting.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:58 |
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Covok posted:That is good news, but it really depends on how management responds to this news. Their downsizing efforts suggests a philosophy of "this is vestigial," but, if it's on the upswing, they might be willing to increase production size and put some more effort in putting out substantial products, instead of just adventures. However, an unfortunate reality of business is that a lot of it comes down to how management responds, regardless of facts and figures. Facts and figures might say "it sold better than expected and is on the upswing," but management, who has been downsizing the project which suggests a lack of faith, may view this success as an anomaly. However, they have been trying to build the brand (things like the attempted movie) so that may also mean management was downsizing due to reality with the hopes thing turn around and this is the proof they needed to justify changing course. Mors Rattus posted:I would say that the uptick of D&D as a brand has more to do with, say, the resurgence of Baldur's Gate than it does with the actual tabletop game. Brand isn't the same as product.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 19:13 |
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Homelands was a bad expansion but the lore was kinda neat.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 19:20 |
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Maxwell Lord posted:Homelands was a bad expansion but the lore was kinda neat. I'll give you that, minotaur land
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 19:23 |
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Evil Mastermind posted:Now they get a dozen tables stuffed in a back corner away from the main walking lines of the tabletop area and a rinky-dink sign. Just as Gygax intended.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 19:36 |
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Halloween Jack posted:See, that's the thing. I have no idea if increased sales have anything to do with a new edition of the RPG or if it's board games, accessories, and/or licensing. Is it sales that have increased or just profits though? With all the downsizing of effort they've been doing (see all the posts about low presence at cons and their thin release schedule) I suspect their expenses have gone way down. If they're maintaining similar sales on much lower expenses, profits will have a noticeable upturn but it's not necessarily a sign of brand growth.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 19:54 |
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Bro if you don't wanna quest to kill the Baron Sengir, I don't even know how to help you.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 20:59 |
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There's also that the tremendous downsizing and everything might be WHY it's on an upswing. With fewer expenses, profits are up. It might not actually be making that much more money.
ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Apr 28, 2016 |
# ? Apr 28, 2016 21:35 |
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psychopomp posted:So WOTC released Zendikar as a setting for 5e. Why cross their IPs like this now? Why not a decade ago? Why ever? Finally! Proof that literally any homebrew could be better than official WotC material!
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 21:44 |
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Halloween Jack posted:This isn't new news, but I recently learned that D&D was mentioned in a Hasbro quarterly report as one of several brands on the upswing, the profits from which more than offset losses from several brands that had taken a downturn. I had heard D&D 5 sold well; does this indicate plans to treat the brand more seriously? Not that long ago we were talking about how D&D had become a legacy brand. It's just that when Diablo 3's designers realized how much of a mess they'd made with that game, they made some radical course corrections. D&D just seems to be interested in the "let's coast on this while people are still enthusiastic about it" approach instead. Alien Rope Burn posted:Finally, you can play a summoned creature in a tiny piece of the Magic: the Gathering setting.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 21:46 |
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The Diablo 3/D&D comparison reminds me of when the first Diablo 3 screenshots came out, and people got mad because some of the areas had c-c-c-COLOR instead of being grimy grimdarkness, and this was somehow a violation of the grand legacy of the Diablo franchise. Kind of like the 3e/4e split. The difference is that Blizzard just pretty much laughed those people off and just kept doing what they were doing, whereas WotC bucked to the pressure from the "old guard" and scrambled to get them back even though their only real complaint was "THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I AM USED TO".
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 21:52 |
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I can't tell are you trying to claim Diablo 3 was bad or that 4th edition was bad? Neither of those things is true. This thread confuses me sometimes, what with people claiming GW is good becasue they "disregard grogs" and other such blatant falsehoods.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 21:55 |
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Terrible Opinions posted:I can't tell are you trying to claim Diablo 3 was bad or that 4th edition was bad? He is literally saying the exact opposite of both those things.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 21:58 |
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Zephirum posted:Finally! Proof that literally any homebrew could be better than official WotC material! I'm not super interested in the D&D stats. However, I am a whore for the post-Onslaught Magic settings and will gladly consume any and all of these setting books.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 22:08 |
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Evil Mastermind posted:The Diablo 3/D&D comparison reminds me of when the first Diablo 3 screenshots came out, and people got mad because some of the areas had c-c-c-COLOR instead of being grimy grimdarkness, and this was somehow a violation of the grand legacy of the Diablo franchise. Kind of like the 3e/4e split. See, I don't think there was really any scrambling. You look at Essentials, what it did, and how hard it flopped, and it becomes real obvious that, after a certain number of layoffs, the guys who pushed for 4e were no longer in the company, and the remainders wanted to kill off 4e to create their own new edition. Calling back to grogs was an easy justification - they were always gonna do it. Mearls didn't poo poo on the warlord constantly then refuse to allow one into the game because grogs hated warlords, he always hated the class. And then of course immediately realized that would take work and got tremendously lazy with it.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 22:09 |
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Terrible Opinions posted:I can't tell are you trying to claim Diablo 3 was bad or that 4th edition was bad? Neither of those things is true.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 22:10 |
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Halloween Jack posted:As someone who doesn't actually play GW products, I've repeated the meme that GW regards themselves as a unique hobby and deal with periodically shedding customers to attract the next crop of new customers. However, it seems they've bought their own marketing buzz to the point that they think reality no longer applies to them. There's also a huge difference between not pandering to the crustiest curmudgeonly part of your fanbase and actively making GBS threads over all of your fans, which is what GW has been heavily engaged in lately.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 22:14 |
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Lemon-Lime posted:He is literally saying the exact opposite of both those things. Hotdamn I suck at looking over my stuff. I meant that Diablo 3 was good, cause it was not. Diablo 3 was very bad. The people whining about colors were dumb, but Blizzard ignoring them didn't help anything.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 22:21 |
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Terrible Opinions posted:Hotdamn I suck at looking over my stuff. I meant that Diablo 3 was good, cause it was not. Diablo 3 was very bad. The people whining about colors were dumb, but Blizzard ignoring them didn't help anything. But its badness wasn't related to its color palette, is the point, and cleaving to the people posting badly photoshopped screenshots of Diablo 3 Extra Brown edition wouldn't have made it any better.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 22:26 |
Kai Tave posted:But its badness wasn't related to its color palette, is the point, and cleaving to the people posting badly photoshopped screenshots of Diablo 3 Extra Brown edition wouldn't have made it any better.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 22:33 |
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It proves that there isn't any virtue in making something to specifically piss off your established fans. There is only virtue in making a good loving game. Otherwise you go full Age of Sigmar or Windows 8.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 22:42 |
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Terrible Opinions posted:It proves that there isn't any virtue in making something to specifically piss off your established fans. There is only virtue in making a good loving game. Otherwise you go full Age of Sigmar or Windows 8. D&D4E was a good game that pissed a bunch of people off, many of whom felt personally and deliberately slighted by it. Is the lesson here that WotC shouldnt have made it? Someone somewhere has written a hundred thousand angry words about why removing mana burn from Magic is a slap in the face, should they be backpedaling over that? The issue here is when a certain subset of fans take ANY change as something done to specifically piss them off, whether it actually was or not.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 22:52 |
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No, cause Mana Burn was stupid. Now Damage not being on the stack anymore
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 22:54 |
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Grognards should be pissed off as much as possible. Pretty sure that the more sacred cows you burn, the better designed game you have.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 22:59 |
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Zurui posted:I'm not super interested in the D&D stats. However, I am a whore for the post-Onslaught Magic settings and will gladly consume any and all of these setting books. Good news! Zendikar already has a systemless source book already, and Innistrad has one coming. thefakenews fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Apr 28, 2016 |
# ? Apr 28, 2016 23:06 |
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Kai Tave posted:D&D4E was a good game that pissed a bunch of people off, many of whom felt personally and deliberately slighted by it. Is the lesson here that WotC shouldnt have made it? Someone somewhere has written a hundred thousand angry words about why removing mana burn from Magic is a slap in the face, should they be backpedaling over that? The issue here is when a certain subset of fans take ANY change as something done to specifically piss them off, whether it actually was or not. Just make a good game and don't give a gently caress about people being pissed off. WotC made 4th edition which was good and pissed people off, but they didn't make it to piss people off. Whereas several people involved in 5th edition have specifically stated they want to stick it to people who don't play "Real D&D". Similarly you have Mk 3 of warmachine which seems to be making a bunch of changes to the game that will improve it's overall feel and competitive health, and they aren't caring if a few people whine on their forums. Then there is Age of Sigmar whose stated goal was to jettison less profitable than desired customer segments under the belief that new customers would flock to fantasy space marines and extra fascism.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 23:13 |
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# ? May 9, 2024 14:06 |
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Terrible Opinions posted:Just make a good game and don't give a gently caress about people being pissed off. WotC made 4th edition which was good and pissed people off, but they didn't make it to piss people off. Whereas several people involved in 5th edition have specifically stated they want to stick it to people who don't play "Real D&D". Well the good news that I don't think anyone here was disagreeing with this particular point.
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# ? Apr 28, 2016 23:16 |