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pugnax posted:I don't necessarily disagree (and definitely think that removing them is a valid design choice) but fights are situational and Titans are considerably weakened defensively. I don't think a Titan should be able wipe out fleets, unless they're extremely stupid and unlucky. But what about beautiful bombing runs that delete shield battleships? Is that too much power? Bombing runs almost always need very particular perches and warp ins set up, require at least 2-4 squads of 7 people who are coordinating very precisely, and they're very liable to getting popped right after they drop their bombs. A titan can do much more damage to that same fleet with a single pilot, have practically no risk at all of being lost if they have a large super fleet ready to support them (guess what, all our enemies do), and can do so at a much greater range. TL;DR Stop comparing apples to oranges
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Apr 29, 2016 17:14
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ChickenWing posted:That's the crux of the matter - right now, a titan can wipe out a fleet. Battleship fleet would probably be easy, cruiser fleet would be difficult, frigate fleet would be improbable, but all possible. But a solo Titan can only wipe out a fleet under a pretty limited set of tactical situations, right? They need to be balled up (like on a gate, but that terrain has almost always mattered - jumping directly into a fight is a risky move), or in a straight line, etc. Lots of room for not getting doomsdayed, and if it misses you, threre is plenty opportunity to GTFO. Again, I don't think that there is a lot of merit to 'sum of warm bodies active in one place at a given moment' as a balancing factor. Anyhow, had my coffee and feel the need to  as I (unlike most of this thread) think that Seagull's road map is pretty awesome, and we are in another mechanics upheaval that has a big impact on fleet scale PvP. I'm sure it will be broken and adjusted over the next few months. It's going to require lots of people thinking about things in new ways, because old strategies aren't working. It's a cool time in the game, as least I think it is.But anyway, sorry for posting about Eve Online: A Pretty Weird and Often Unfair Game. Resume your boiled ribs and cat pictures. pugnax fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 17:15
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Can't a Titan just wave one of those AoE doomsdays around and slice anything tackling it to pieces instantly
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Apr 29, 2016 17:17
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On a different topic, any of the production types itt have any estimates on what prices T2 capital guns will settle at?
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Apr 29, 2016 17:21
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Vendictus Prime posted:All the mining ships/barges are getting some new model love for the Industry patch coming next. I picked such a good time to join this game! Either that or Ccp have been reading my posts and thinking it would be awesome to make me grin even more!
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Apr 29, 2016 17:21
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-Troika- posted:Can't a Titan just wave one of those AoE doomsdays around and slice anything tackling it to pieces instantly nah that ONLY instantly vaporizes frigates and cruisers and also neuts out anything not hit by the beam, battleships take a few seconds of being hit
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Apr 29, 2016 17:25
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Is the neut around the titan or around the target area?
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Apr 29, 2016 17:27
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Gounads posted:Is the neut around the titan or around the target area?
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Apr 29, 2016 17:30
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Gounads posted:Is the neut around the titan or around the target area? The Titan - so they neut each other out if they're close.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:30
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VideoGames posted:I picked such a good time to join this game! Either that or Ccp have been reading my posts and thinking it would be awesome to make me grin even more! The game has changed a lot in the past 18 months to 2 years. Now is, honestly, as good of a time as any to get into the game regardless of what you want to do due to that.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:38
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pugnax posted:Again, I don't think that there is a lot of merit to 'sum of warm bodies active in one place at a given moment' as a balancing factor. Pedantic answer: technically those warm bodies have to be in battleships or whatever to be useful, it's more than just having a billion nerds in rookie ships Real answer: This is a bad opinion. Unironically, not jokingly, a bad and harmful opinion. As I said before, ISK and SP should give you an edge in a fight. It should not be the heal-all panacea that you apply whenever you're in trouble. This sort of opinion hearkens back to the unironic elite pvp "you must be this SP to have fun" mentality that is absolutely cancerous to this game.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:42
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Like, the instant you make "having enough friends" not a valid win condition, the game becomes who can get the most expensive toys and old pilots, which means that PL literally wins forever. "But chicken wing, blah blah blah blue donut friends with everyone dirty blobbers  "Yeah it's actually very Cool and Good that making friends and cooperation is the path to success.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:45
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Warm bodies is the only thing of value any MMO has to offer. To herd people into other people to be friends or enemies. To form any sort of bond. The bond of rivals or friends. Doesn't matter. Just something to keep the person in the game and make that person bring more people to the game. If a fleet is repeatedly wiped out instantly without a chance to evade or counter. That's the sort of experience that makes people put down the metaphorical controller. It's the whole FPS "map full of snipers" thing. I have no doubt that the sniper is having fun but the situation is not good for the game.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:47
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ChickenWing posted:Like, the instant you make "having enough friends" not a valid win condition, the game becomes who can get the most expensive toys and old pilots, which means that PL literally wins forever. um but the current conflict is The Evil Blue Donut vs the Heroic Forces Of Eve which just happen to massively outnumber the former numbers shouldn't play a factor!!!
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Apr 29, 2016 17:49
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ChickenWing posted:Like, the instant you make "having enough friends" not a valid win condition, the game becomes who can get the most expensive toys and old pilots, which means that PL literally wins forever. I, Hendrick Tallardar, take up the mantle of Chickenwing's "PL literally wins forever" and wear it proudly as a shroud of brittle avarice and all the works of foolish craven FC below. Death to GoonSwarm Federation, Death to Chickenwing (in-game), Death to the memory of this terrible post.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:51
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Zephyrine posted:Warm bodies is the only thing of value any MMO has to offer. To herd people into other people to be friends or enemies. Totally agreed, but earlier in the conversation it was pointed out that you couldn't drop on the Titan doomsdaying a gang of scoutless shield cruisers on a gate because the Titan had a friendly fleet waiting. So is there some sort of fairness ratio of fleet sizes? Worrying about a map full of snipers sounds more like an argument against AFK cloaking.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:57
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nerf doomsdays and make them damage moddable to the point that you'd' need 3 faction mods to get the same power again.
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Apr 29, 2016 18:00
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ChickenWing posted:titan doomsdays take the same amount of skill as opening your eve client titan doomsday doesn't require a password 
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Apr 29, 2016 18:04
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pugnax posted:Totally agreed, but earlier in the conversation it was pointed out that you couldn't drop on the Titan doomsdaying a gang of scoutless shield cruisers on a gate because the Titan had a friendly fleet waiting. So is there some sort of fairness ratio of fleet sizes? That he had fleet support is beside the point. The problem is that from the moment they engaged warp. He had time to cyno in and create a firewall of doom to instantly kill any of them and they were helpless in warp to evade it while automatically being unable to fight him in return due to the isk tank (this in itself is fair) Isk buys him protection from their numerical superiority in the form of a massive resilient hull that they have no chance of breaking. But it cannot at the same time buy him the offensive power to instantly wipe them out at a great distance with minimal risk.
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Apr 29, 2016 18:06
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CommonShore posted:titan doomsday doesn't require a password I have my passwords saved  pugnax posted:Totally agreed, but earlier in the conversation it was pointed out that you couldn't drop on the Titan doomsdaying a gang of scoutless shield cruisers on a gate because the Titan had a friendly fleet waiting. So is there some sort of fairness ratio of fleet sizes? gently caress the friendly fleet, who in the scoutless shield cruiser fleet has a cyno? What's the likelihood that someone can find a dictor/hic and cyno and get tackle before the titan's DD cycle is up and he jumps out? What's the likelihood that that shield cruiser fleet has a dreadbomb waiting in the wings for just this occasion? What's the likelihood that a dreadbomb can be assembled in the time before the titan fucks off? What's the likelihood that the correct combination of these things happens and the titan is actually dropped on? Before escalation is even an option, you need to take a fuckton of other factors into account. Realisticially, if the titan pilot does this a bunch then sure you can set a trap for him. Then we get into the escalation argument, and honestly if you have a big 'ol support fleet ready to defend that titan and we can't beat it then sure, you win, that's fair. The problem is, we don't even get to that escalation because in the time it took us to form a fleet and get on grid, the titan has already frogged out and posted five different threads on r/eve
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Apr 29, 2016 18:18
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So I've been having a lot of fun just screwing around in lowsec with sniggwaffe sometimes we camp a gate and get some kills, other times we go on roams and kill caracals and faction frigs all in all it's not a bad time
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Apr 29, 2016 18:24
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Landsknecht posted:So I've been having a lot of fun just screwing around in lowsec with sniggwaffe screwing around is some of the best times you can have in eve its a very good break from tryharding
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Apr 29, 2016 18:30
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http://i.imgur.com/Uk3lMkO.mp4
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Apr 29, 2016 18:36
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Hey I need some quick help with my maths - given that a cloaking device targeting delay is above 10 seconds, and the only way to keep a titan tackled in lowsec (barring 50 interceptors) is a focused hictor point, is it reasonably safe to jump a super into a lowsec system with a few not-on-grid hostiles if the super is able to do a 10 second warp to a pos? This is assuming you're in a safe that takes 10s to warp to from every celestial and you jump the instant you light the cyno e2: and you confirm there are no active probes out Goatman Sacks fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 18:40
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Ahh, remember back before B-R when grath and other PL dudes said that a good balance for titans was that they should be able to kill anything smaller and not be killed by anything less than more titans? And then after B-R that kind of talk got much smaller. Now they have majority again, I wonder what stance they'll take.
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Apr 29, 2016 18:43
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Goatman Sacks posted:Hey I need some quick help with my maths - given that a cloaking device targeting delay is above 10 seconds, and the only way to keep a titan tackled in lowsec (barring 50 interceptors) is a focused hictor point, is it reasonably safe to jump a super into a lowsec system with a few not-on-grid hostiles if the super is able to do a 10 second warp to a pos? might be a panther bumping you just enough to let the hictor tackle you 
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Apr 29, 2016 18:43
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Oh right I always forget bumping is a thing
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Apr 29, 2016 18:44
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CainFortea posted:Ahh, remember back before B-R when grath and other PL dudes said that a good balance for titans was that they should be able to kill anything smaller and not be killed by anything less than more titans? Grath never got over the fact that CCP decided that 3 dudes in 8 titans shouldn't be able to delete 200-person Maelstrom fleets anymore
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Apr 29, 2016 18:44
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Goatman Sacks posted:Hey I need some quick help with my maths - given that a cloaking device targeting delay is above 10 seconds, and the only way to keep a titan tackled in lowsec (barring 50 interceptors) is a focused hictor point, is it reasonably safe to jump a super into a lowsec system with a few not-on-grid hostiles if the super is able to do a 10 second warp to a pos? The targeting delay is 10 seconds but they can still light their own cyno and bring in some friends instantly.
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Apr 29, 2016 18:47
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Goatman Sacks posted:Hey I need some quick help with my maths - given that a cloaking device targeting delay is above 10 seconds, and the only way to keep a titan tackled in lowsec (barring 50 interceptors) is a focused hictor point, is it reasonably safe to jump a super into a lowsec system with a few not-on-grid hostiles if the super is able to do a 10 second warp to a pos? With two T2 Targeting System Stabilizers, the delay is more like 7,4. If you want to live in interesting times, go for it.
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Apr 29, 2016 18:50
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Libluini posted:With two T2 Targeting System Stabilizers, .....that's a thing that exists? e: the more you know
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Apr 29, 2016 18:56
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CainFortea posted:I wonder what stance they'll take Solo pwn mobiles
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Apr 29, 2016 19:00
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Meh, I'm not a fan of super buffs in general. The fact that functionally "Non State" actors with no skin in the game can gain enough power through simply having a large pool of isk to effectively be spoilers in any armed conflict in the game is an issue. This isn't like hiring Noir. or even what we laughably call Mercenary Coalition where they can sway the balance in the occasional fight or even a war by a smaller margin. Come the future where nullsec logically balkanizes under fozzie sov, whoever hires PL first in any conflict is pretty much automatically the winner. So once we're stomped, or abased to sufficient degree that PL wants to fish other waters, wherever they land is going to be Brave Newbies X2, and it's going to be loving awful. Like I don't know why people think we formed this coalition just for yuks. It was literally formed as a way to defend ourselves from actors like PL. Space Monkies for all the poo poo talk about them had PL squatting on top of them for several months. So did we. The fact that the coalition went off the rails with dumb imperium/viceroy poo poo is a non arguable point.
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Apr 29, 2016 19:23
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We put so much effort into this "out of game community" of a coalition with the other allies to form a stronger bond. Then someone puts a little pressure on us and nearly all our allies snap like bread sticks instantly. I've been enduring FCON for two years and then when the Mongolians are finally at the ramparts. All FCON did was go "see ya!" and then I'm not even allowed to shoot FCON in the back as they jump over the wall and run into the woods.
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Apr 29, 2016 19:28
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Rhymenoserous posted:The fact that the coalition went off the rails with dumb imperium/viceroy poo poo is a non arguable point. Do you mean in the sense we reduced the size of the CFC when we formed the Imperium or that the Viceroy poo poo was "To Evil"?
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Apr 29, 2016 19:30
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Venom Snake posted:Do you mean in the sense we reduced the size of the CFC when we formed the Imperium or that the Viceroy poo poo was "To Evil"? The Viceroy thing was fine. Just evil enough. The CFC/Imperium simply became fat from spending two years unopposed. The real fighters left for more active groups because fights need a fight. In their place and we recruited thousands of bears. Who had no problem staying because "not fighting" was just what they wanted.
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Apr 29, 2016 19:34
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Venom Snake posted:Do you mean in the sense we reduced the size of the CFC when we formed the Imperium or that the Viceroy poo poo was "To Evil"? I wouldn't say evil. Just stupid and pointless.
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Apr 29, 2016 19:35
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Zephyrine posted:The Viceroy thing was fine. Just evil enough. it wasnt fine it was hubris as gently caress
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Apr 29, 2016 19:36
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ChickenWing posted:Like, the instant you make "having enough friends" not a valid win condition, the game becomes who can get the most expensive toys and old pilots, which means that PL literally wins forever. excuse me as I word this poorly as gently caress because I'm eating korean bbq, but I'm mostly on the fence with the new capital changes- for a laundry list of reasons. I'm okay with Titans shredding fleets as long as those doomsdays also kill friendlies (which they do) and they lose a mega portion of buffer (which they have)- but I'm still of the belief that Titans existing is a mistake. It's not a HUGE issue right now because there isn't a market to meet the demand, the build costs for some of the capital items are broken (T2 Shield Boosters requiring a T2 Booster to build) and the materials to build the faction items are quite literally It will probably be 2-3 months before the more organized capital groups are fitted and ready for glorious space battle (read: shooting towers/citadels) and Titans will mostly likely serve as meat bazookas until they're properly fitted. ChickenWing posted:Also yes numerical superiority should absolutely beat SP and ISK past a certain threshold. 100 machs should beat 100 maelstroms. 100 machs should probably beat 150 maelstroms if the machs have a good FC. 100 machs should not beat 200 maelstroms. 100 Machs will probably poo poo on 150 Maels as long as you fit them properly (i.e. not whatever that poor yacht fleet fit was). Although this was probably more of sourcing the necessary fittings for 500+ dudes than a cost issue. There's a reason rank and file infantry doesn't share the same kit as Navy Seals/SOGs. Xolve fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 19:37
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Xolve posted:excuse me as I word this poorly as gently caress because I'm eating korean bbq, but Bulgogi owns.
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Apr 29, 2016 19:39
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