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Szcwczuk posted:Yeah PVP needs to be fixed on every level. If I'm honest, I don't think it will be. See: Bloodborne, a game that I love in every single way for single-player and co-op but with a PvP system so pants-on-head stupid that it might as well not exist.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:43
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By the way as soon as you enter the boss arena as long as all your phantoms are dead you can just quit/reload and you'll res pawn outside the boss door, sans whatever invader you just banished. 0 risk.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:44
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NTT posted:By the way as soon as you enter the boss arena as long as all your phantoms are dead you can just quit/reload and you'll res pawn outside the boss door, sans whatever invader you just banished. 0 risk. Lol why would do that?
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Apr 29, 2016 20:45
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Tenzarin posted:And waiting outside of the firelink shrine. The firelink outskirts area being a PvP zone would actually be pretty rad. All that terrain would be cool to fight on, that and the Gundyr ring.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:45
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Harrow posted:If I'm honest, I don't think it will be. See: Bloodborne, a game that I love in every single way for single-player and co-op but with a PvP system so pants-on-head stupid that it might as well not exist. Bloodborne wasn't going to have any PvP or Co-Op at all, for a long, long time.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:46
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:Bloodborne wasn't going to have any PvP or Co-Op at all, for a long, long time. That explains a lot.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:49
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And then co-oping chalice dungeons became my favourite thing. As much as some people hated it ... I loved the randomgen dungeons.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:49
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PSA: The majority of people who play these games don't like invasions and this is why the PVP feels like an afterthought every time: because it loving is. For the record, I like doing PVP in these games just fine but lol if you expect From to suddenly start giving a poo poo about it after five of these.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:49
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Dr. Video Games 0112 posted:I'm almost positive that's I read this somewhere, your dark sigils and hollowing persist through playthroughs. Presumably so you can't just speed run the game to circumvent grinding? If it's automatically removed when you enter a new cycle, then there really is no point in ever paying it off. Then again, I'm guessing that some quest triggers for Yoel/Yuria require certain intermediate values of Dark Sigils, and thus already having 5 or 8 of them would break things. Better to just start over with a clean slate, so to speak.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:49
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Wagrid posted:PSA: The majority of people who play these games don't like invasions and this is why the PVP feels like an afterthought every time: because it loving is. 2 was relatively well designed. I think it's fair to lay the blame at a certain person's feet.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:51
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Wagrid posted:PSA: The majority of people who play these games don't like invasions and this is why the PVP feels like an afterthought every time: because it loving is. invadees typically aren't supposed to like it. it's supposed to be the risk you run for attempting to summon bodyguards. i don't think pvp is an afterthought. you could have designed the game without it and um, not made all these assets for invasion and co-op covenants...as an afterthought.. i think they just generally don't really know what they're doing.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:52
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So, this happened: https://youtu.be/FzZBj92z8Gw  Is this some weird hitbox thing? Happened to me more times than I'd like to admit...I know I should probably just dodge back but Bloodborne is the only Souls game I've played before and the whole thing of "dodge forward and slightly right and you'll be fine 99% of the time" is almost an automatic reflex for me in situations like this. 
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Apr 29, 2016 20:52
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Tallgeese posted:2 was relatively well designed. DS2 is also widely considered to be the worst of the series because the majority of the player base cares way more about PVE.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:52
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See I feel like the only time the invasion system made sense was back in Demon's Souls. It had a very clear purpose - if you died, you got stuck in spirit mode with your max hp halved. If you wanted to go back to full hp you could either co-op and kill a boss, or invade and kill a player (or just use an item but let's ignore that part). It was basically meant as a one-shot thing rather than a career choice. And sure, some players did just kill themselves to immediately invade again but at least the mechanics were designed to very clearly imply when and why you should invade. In Dark Souls it all just kind of went out the window and invading is just a thing you can do, but there's no real reason why you'd WANT to except to just dick over other players. And yes I realize that is the main reason a lot of people invaded anyway, but the point is that in Demon's Souls it fit in with the game systems - in Dark Souls it's always felt very tacked on to me.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:53
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Shnakepup posted:So, this happened: https://youtu.be/FzZBj92z8Gw i had the mimic do something similar, but you kinda did dodge towards the hand. dodge towards the attack's point of origin
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Apr 29, 2016 20:53
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Kaldaris posted:And then co-oping chalice dungeons became my favourite thing. As much as some people hated it ... I loved the randomgen dungeons. Chalice dungeons were a good idea not given enough resources to work. Then they just totally scrapped the idea going forward because internet nerds screamed about them. RIP rogue-lite with souls combat that could have been but never was...
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Apr 29, 2016 20:54
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Kaldaris posted:And then co-oping chalice dungeons became my favourite thing. As much as some people hated it ... I loved the randomgen dungeons. Having the League covenant in the Bloodborne DLC made me really happy, even though it had very limited effects and didn't necessarily make it easier/more rewarding to co-op. I just liked being a ~*~special~*~ cooperator. Tallgeese posted:2 was relatively well designed. Yeah, as much as I think his presence makes the PvE side of things, including lore and atmosphere, better, Miyazaki just doesn't give a half-hearted gently caress about PvP.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:54
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The Cheshire Cat posted:See I feel like the only time the invasion system made sense was back in Demon's Souls. It had a very clear purpose - if you died, you got stuck in spirit mode with your max hp halved. If you wanted to go back to full hp you could either co-op and kill a boss, or invade and kill a player (or just use an item but let's ignore that part). It was basically meant as a one-shot thing rather than a career choice. And sure, some players did just kill themselves to immediately invade again but at least the mechanics were designed to very clearly imply when and why you should invade. In Dark Souls it all just kind of went out the window and invading is just a thing you can do, but there's no real reason why you'd WANT to except to just dick over other players. you invade so you can make a spidergirl feel better
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Apr 29, 2016 20:54
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Wagrid posted:PSA: The majority of people who play these games don't like invasions and this is why the PVP feels like an afterthought every time: because it loving is. People keep saying this and yet after the initial wave of people, you don't see people doing stuff on beating bosses over and over and all this other stuff minus funny gimmicks, you see a billion different videos about PvP. The most discussion you see half the time when people talk about these games is PvP. What eventually keeps these games so alive is usually PvP. This deal of "Most people who play these games have no interest in PvP" that keeps going around more than usual with this one especially, just seems completely unfounded. Invasions are a huge part of these games, it's where a ton of the game's kind of culture has come from. Wagrid posted:DS2 is also widely considered to be the worst of the series because the majority of the player base cares way more about PVE. I don't think I ever saw people's gripes be about PvP. It was soul memory being garbage, the world feeling cobbled together, stats feeling weirder and so on. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 20:58
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Tenzarin posted:It's like the plot of these games people try to make sense of. When in fact its made to be confusing and make no sense. It makes plenty of sense, it's just almost entirely fairy tale logic.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:02
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Yardbomb posted:People keep saying this and yet after the initial wave of people, you don't see people doing stuff on beating bosses over and over and all this other stuff minus funny gimmicks, you see a billion different videos about PvP. The most discussion you see half the time when people talk about these games is PvP. What eventually keeps these games so alive is usually PvP. This deal of "Most people who play these games have no interest in PvP" that keeps going around more than usual with this one especially, just seems completely unfounded. Invasions are a huge part of these games, it's where a ton of the game's kind of culture has come from. That's because that initial wave of people is the majority of the player base. Most people beat a game the week they buy it then move on. Lots of people watch these videos when they're well made and funny; that doesn't mean these people enjoy participating in the PVP or don't hate the experience of being invaded. Yardbomb posted:I don't think I ever saw people's gripes be about PvP. It was soul memory being garbage, the world feeling cobbled together, stats feeling weirder and so on. Yes, that is exactly my point, I never said people griped about Dark Souls 2 PVP? Wagrid fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 21:02
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I don't care about Souls PvP but I also don't care if I get invaded because they will die to my mighty Dragonslayer Axe or Dark Sword depending on how I feel on that moment.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:04
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*retard spirit wagrid has invaded your thread* "ds2 was bad, no one cares about pvp"
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Apr 29, 2016 21:04
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Control Volume posted:*retard spirit wagrid has invaded your thread* "ds2 was bad, no one cares about pvp" Dark Souls 2 was bad and nobody does care about PVP. Sorry dude, calling me a retard doesn't make the 10 or so regulars in the thread constitute the majority of the player base! It just makes you a dick! Which is how the majority of players see the people who invade so it all works out!
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Apr 29, 2016 21:05
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Yardbomb posted:I don't think I ever saw people's gripes be about PvP. It was soul memory being garbage, the world feeling cobbled together, stats feeling weirder and so on. You know what's kind of funny about Soul Memory? If it only applied to invasions with the Cracked/normal Red Eye Orb, I don't think it would've been a problem. If Orb invasions used Soul Memory and anything involving signs (co-op or dueling) used Soul Level matchmaking, none of Soul Memory's problems would've existed.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:06
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Wagrid posted:Dark Souls 2 was bad and nobody does care about PVP. 
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Apr 29, 2016 21:07
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Wagrid posted:PSA: The majority of people who play these games don't like invasions and this is why the PVP feels like an afterthought every time: because it loving is. It's because everyone gets the invaders that just hide behind bad guys. Every monster should be KOS with invaders all the time.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:07
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Wagrid posted:Calling me a retard doesn't make the 10 or so regulars in the thread constitute the majority of the player base! 4chins and rebbit sure seem to love PvP for the most part, obviously that's just more internet people but if you're gonna say that's not at least a more significant grouping of people, then I dunno dude.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:08
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The Cheshire Cat posted:See I feel like the only time the invasion system made sense was back in Demon's Souls. It had a very clear purpose - if you died, you got stuck in spirit mode with your max hp halved. If you wanted to go back to full hp you could either co-op and kill a boss, or invade and kill a player (or just use an item but let's ignore that part). It was basically meant as a one-shot thing rather than a career choice. And sure, some players did just kill themselves to immediately invade again but at least the mechanics were designed to very clearly imply when and why you should invade. In Dark Souls it all just kind of went out the window and invading is just a thing you can do, but there's no real reason why you'd WANT to except to just dick over other players. The main reason people invade in Dark Souls is to be a dick, there's just no two ways about it. When people hate duels but like invasions, surely the only difference is the advantage they're getting from being an invader (host is preoccupied with fighting mobs, etc.)? I get that some people like invading because you can do all sorts of hilariously troll-y poo poo, but that hasn't really changed in DS3 compared to the previous games. The thing that has changed is that the advantage is now more in the host's favor. I don't really agree that PvP is an afterthought, but the fact remains that the Souls games are PvE games. The main appeal of the games are their PvE gameplay and their fair but hard difficulty. Invasions are a novel and interesting concept, but there are a lot of people who enjoy the games to death without necessarily enjoying the (minor) aspect of being invaded. It's such a dumb discussion, since invasions are clearly not meant to be a main gameplay focus but yet you constantly have people like this guy who goes: Szcwczuk posted:If you are so anti-pvp offline mode is there to hold your hand. The online features of the Souls series include messages, summons, bloodstains and the "ghosts" of other players, all of which are fun and harmless features that one might enjoy without enjoying invasions. The whole "well if you don't like invasions then play a different game noob" argument is so loving dumb. Yardbomb posted:What eventually keeps these games so alive is usually PvP. I couldn't agree less. The reason I've spent hundreds of hours in these games is due to the PvE, and the same goes for a huge amount of people. Take Lobos Jr for example, dude has several thousand hours in the series and he didn't even try PvPing until recently. The reason you see more youtube videos about PvP is the same reason you see more WoW videos about PvP, or any other game's PvP for that matter, people like watching it.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:09
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I don't understand this Hollowing/Dark Sigil/ Yoel stuff AT ALL. Can I get a baby's first guide on it? At least just a few words telling me how not to be dumb. Though, to be fair, I healed the Dark Sigil already. Maybe I read it wrong, but I think I had read that I couldn't get the free levels anymore so I killed that little hunchback because I got bored. What have I done? What should I do in my next playthrough?
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Apr 29, 2016 21:09
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I loved being a ratbro and a bellbro .
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Apr 29, 2016 21:09
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The PVP in this hand is really fun
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Apr 29, 2016 21:10
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Wagrid posted:Dark Souls 2 was bad and nobody does care about PVP. The majority of people don't like hard games and dark souls is just a niche title - you *game is fastest selling namco bandai title ever* 
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Apr 29, 2016 21:10
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Yardbomb posted:4chins and rebbit sure seem to love PvP for the most part, obviously that's just more internet people but if you're gonna say that's not at least a more significant grouping of people, then I dunno dude. I mean, for sure it has a community, and I don't think they should be totally brushed aside, but acting like it's the be all and end all of these games like people were a couple of pages back (and in fact, still are on this page) is very silly. Sorry for pointing out your weird niche obsessive way of playing these games that I also like doing isn't the most important thing to the developer or that popular outside of places like reddit or SA. I promise to never damage your sense of being Very Important Consumers and Tastemakers ever again. Wagrid fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 21:10
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Your Computer posted:When people hate duels but like invasions, surely the only difference is the advantage they're getting from being an invader. It's because duels 9 times out of 10 are actually gonna be you just getting summoned into an instant death, red signing is worse than it's ever been right now probably.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:11
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*Game, sorry
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Apr 29, 2016 21:11
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I guess here's the thing: I don't buy invasions being horseshit as an intentional decision. I don't think From said, "People hate being invaded, so let's make things no fun at all for invaders." My evidence for this is the existence of the Way of Blue covenant. It's an indication that From wants people who hate being invaded to still Ember up and still get invaded, because then a Sentinel or Darkmoon can come and help you. The problem is just one of them not really thinking through the effects of letting you summon multiple phantoms but not letting more than one invader in (barring territorial invasions and/or Dried Finger use, of course). The deck should be stacked in the host's favor because they're the one with something to lose, but From went too far in DS3 and it doesn't strike me as wholly intentional.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:12
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Yardbomb posted:It's because duels 9 times out of 10 are actually gonna be you just getting summoned into an instant death, red signing is worse than it's ever been right now probably. Obviously I mean actual duels and not gank squads like that. I did a good amount of PvP in DS2 in the Dragon Covenant, just putting down my sign and getting summoned for duels and while there were a couple of "get summoned, instantly killed by several people" moments I still had a bunch of fun 1v1 fights.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:13
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Wagrid posted:Dark Souls 2 was bad and nobody does care about PVP. The majority of people who played Dark Souls 2 liked it though so playing that card doesn't help you. BTW if From didn't care about invasions they wouldn't of made the Aldrich Faithful covenant, an area that stacks invasions hilariously in favor of the invaders that come in droves. From is just really bad at balancing PvP. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 21:13
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I really hope some of the pro-invasion people in the last few pages have invaded me at some point in my playtime and been terribly frustrated when I do absolutely everything possible short of yanking my ethernet cable in order to not engage them. Some of us despise PvP but there are tangible benefits to playing embered and online, so enjoy dashing after me toward the fog door or whatever.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:14
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