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BravestOfTheLamps posted:That's his personal opinion and way of redeeming the Jedi. He has to observe Good qualities of a Jedi to attain that opinion; you cant edit it into "I am a Nazi, like my father Before me" and retain this belief of yours. Atleast not without sounding insane.
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Apr 30, 2016 21:55
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The Republic became Nazis The Rebels want the Republic back BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Apr 30, 2016 |
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Apr 30, 2016 21:57
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The Republic became Nazis See, now you're just devolving into absurdity. Phone at 2% and OMW to work, will continue the like 6 dropped arguments afterwards if anyone wants.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:00
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It's funny how devolving into absurdity and summarising the plot of Star Wars are the same thing to you.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:03
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Neurolimal posted:I don't advocate inaction, only that the people must first be persuaded. The jedi cannot do this because of their indoctrination. This isn't a positive quality and makes them flawed, but not evil. Go back and start again - think on it again, what's the action(intent) that is inaction(action). Who can't you see(hint: yourself)? What can't be thought of(hint: slaves)? What power do you think the will of your (re)public (empire) has over me - think critically and stop defensively reacting to ideas. In an attempt to make this a little more creative & imaginative and give you more to think on (stop reacting to the idea of thought). Watch this scene and think about the position you represent here(ideologically). This is why movies are great for creatively freeing up critical thought of ideology and learning from that destructive-creative process. It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan. Note in this scene "Crashing this plane(ideology) with no survivors!" There are survivors - Who do the all-black-military guys jumping onto the plane represent in the scene? - The camo-clad military guys in the back of the plane? - Are they symbolically(metaphorically) one and the same? - Only to survive but radically changed? Bane: Or perhaps he's wondering why someone would shoot a man, before throwing him out of a plane. This is trying to make a very small(but violent) change aimed at your heart. Search your feelings. Why is the idea born from the nightmare-dream-vision of The Knights of Ren along with Rey's rejection of Maz and her wisdom of meaning; The best drat part of The Force Awakens? These aren’t questions for you to answer, these are questions for you to ponder and then wonder. brawleh fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Apr 30, 2016 |
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Apr 30, 2016 22:05
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Yaws posted:Slavery exists in our world. Right now. The UN does nothing to help them. The UN should be slaughtered and replaced. Unironic agree
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Apr 30, 2016 22:07
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Neurolimal posted:If for no other reason, the Jedi must not be evil, because Lule sees enough Good in Ben, Yoda, and his father to identify aa a Jedi, and define it with Good actions. Have you really read this whole thread and not caught on to the idea of redemption through Christ? The flipside of the Republic having good traits along with bad is that the Empire has good and bad traits as well. There's a foolishness in elevating the nazis into this ultimate inhuman evil, when the rank-and-file were in fact just boring idiots like Luke. It's Vader who is the terrifying inhuman Evil, and he despises nazis.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:07
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Black Bones posted:Unironic agree It's always funny arrives at something revealing through sarcasm. You can't seriously be saying destroy the IMF? 
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Apr 30, 2016 22:09
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's always funny arrives at something revealing through sarcasm. ...huh?
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Apr 30, 2016 22:12
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Yaws posted:...huh? The UN's record on slavery is certainly not caused by their doing nothing with respect to the issue.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:17
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The UN has countries like China, Vietnam, Cuba and Saudi Arabia on it's Human Rights Council. The UN is a jokey joke.
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Apr 30, 2016 23:34
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Han = BIll Leia = Hillary Kylo = Cruz Snoke = Trump!
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May 1, 2016 01:14
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Phobophilia posted:Han = BIll Does this make Luke Bernie Sanders?
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May 1, 2016 01:19
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Phobophilia posted:Han = BIll Comparing Leia to Hillary is such an awful insult to Leia.
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May 1, 2016 01:22
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whos Jeb
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May 1, 2016 01:23
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One of the EU Solo kids. Famous family, erased from history.
Prolonged Panorama fucked around with this message at 01:31 on May 1, 2016 |
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May 1, 2016 01:26
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Hat Thoughts posted:whos Jeb The Daniel Craig Stormtrooper
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May 1, 2016 01:53
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Yes, but the redemption is a failure. I don't see anything redeeming in Vader's death except a cowardly return to the vocabulary of the family unit and the sort of flawed humanitarianism you deride in Padme (Anakin's genocide justified by his sadness at mother's death) which seems to counter-act a Marxist reading. I don't even see how Vader is "with the droids" at the end of his life, and when I watch the prequels I have a palpable sense of Luke's absence, like reading about the brutality of the old testament after the Good News was already delivered. Why is it important for Luke and Anakin to gaze at each other sadly in the end... enjoying the privileges of father-son love that the droids never had? Even if Anakin's transformation is precipitated by his attachment to his family his seeming sacrifice and redemption is completely structured around his relationship with his biological son. One of the reasons I have trouble reading Star Wars as a functional political allegory is because its celebration of the family unit seems at odds with some of its politics, which may be the point, but I don't see how you guys can pull such a "pure" message from such discordant set of values. That's why only the questionably earnest musings of Brawleh make sense because they-ZZSAAAP
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May 1, 2016 02:06
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What's both interesting and unfortunate is that, in this latest slew of reactions, people are make no reference to the films' pop-mythological sci-fi imagery - let alone The Force. And that's, of course, because Luke was explicitly an idealist on a drat fool crusade - and not at all a pragmatist. That gives a lie to all this bullshit. 'Pragmatic idealism' is an oxymoron that only appears in - yep - Huffington Post thinkpieces about "Millennials", written by weird pundit David Burstein. In The Blog: What Happens When Millennials Come Together, wide-eyed Burstien marvels at how globalism is so normal and natural, then credits a Google executive's Facebook page with starting the 2011 Egyptian Revolution. He's like a human Neurolimnal post. Other editorials include: "Three Ways To Win With Millennial Employees", "Millennial Aren't All Girls", "Don't Ask A Millennial - Hire One", "A Generation's Time To Lead", "Facebook And Us"... "Millennials have also evolved a shared worldview that I call “pragmatic idealism.” While seeking broad-based, idealistic social change, we understand we must have a plan in order to achieve that change. [...] Pragmatic idealism drove Mark Zuckerberg as he built Facebook. He wanted to build a company that would fulfill his often expressed vision of “making the world a more open place.” He resisted every opportunity to sell or to alter his strategy in ways that would have made the company more commercial too soon. Yet through savvy technical and business skills, Facebook has pragmatically navigated major challenges to succeed at a level unimaginable just a few years ago. Through major turning points and pivots over issues such as privacy and rules to govern the Facebook community, the company learned to listen and adapt, much like our generation has had to do in the wake of the economic and political crises." -Yeesh. Neurolimnal is subtly redefining The Force as Internet. Internet as God.
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May 1, 2016 03:57
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brawleh posted:Go back and start again - think on it again, what's the action(intent) that is inaction(action). Who can't you see(hint: yourself)? What can't be thought of(hint: slaves)? What power do you think the will of your (re)public (empire) has over me - think critically and stop defensively reacting to ideas. Why do you(brawleh) post like this(on the internet)? What is(is not) the (pur)pose? Reading this(post) makes me(poster) want to gouge-rip-tear my eyes(optical organs) out(not in). These aren't questions for you to answer. Youtube-hyphen-(parenthesis)
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May 1, 2016 04:33
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Neuro "Labor ennobles the chattel slave, and their alien unknowable heart probably enjoys it anyway" limal
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May 1, 2016 06:12
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Hat Thoughts posted:whos Jeb Guy everyone expects to be a badass and goes out like a bitch? Boba Fett.
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May 1, 2016 06:49
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Star Wars fans don't like SMG.
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May 1, 2016 09:17
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Guiness13 posted:Guy everyone expects to be a badass and goes out like a bitch? Boba Fett. Who on earth expected that mush mouthed weirdo to be a badass? Granted, he did go out like a chump, but that's one out of two.
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May 1, 2016 12:21
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UmOk posted:When we talk about the Jedi freeing slave are we saying they should physically free slaves they come across? Or are we talking about them overthrowing the planetary governments that allow slavery? Or just force the leaders to amend their laws? UmOk posted:Why do you(brawleh) post like this(on the internet)? What is(is not) the (pur)pose? Reading this(post) makes me(poster) want to gouge-rip-tear my eyes(optical organs) out(not in). Thank you.
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May 1, 2016 13:46
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It's kind of amazing how simple concepts, expressed in unsubtle ways, are so hard tog rasp for some people. The Republic and the Jedi were flawed, had failed their own ideals pretty hard. Because of this, and the monster it allowed to grow without heir notice, they lost everything and fell. However, a new generation manages to overthrow the monster created by the Republic and hopefully will manage to build something better. Except TFA shows that no, they can't.
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May 1, 2016 16:00
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itt "Marxists" argue that space fascism is morally superior to space liberal democracy.
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May 1, 2016 16:05
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Pretty sure they're actually saying that both are poo poo, which is true
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May 1, 2016 17:03
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The Kingfish posted:itt "Marxists" argue that space fascism is morally superior to space liberal democracy. Keep in mind we're discussing Star Wars, a series of films wherein space liberal democracy segues into space fascism. In the context of the films, they're equivalent, outside of space liberal democracy being less efficient. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 17:13 on May 1, 2016 |
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May 1, 2016 17:11
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Neuro "Labor ennobles the chattel slave, and their alien unknowable heart probably enjoys it anyway" limal He's asked for this. The Force as social network in Fincher's sense, heroic Rey on a Google Search for Luke, guided by BB-8 search-engine. The galaxy digitized into a World(s)Wide Web: "it's all true, all of it." FN escapes the closed system, goes 'open', makes an Internet Connection. Kylo Ren reads Rey's profile (pun intended). "The whole movie is a series of character introductions," says [screenwriter] Arndt. Yeah, that's one hell of a pilot. “We had the idea about R2 plugging into the information base of the Death Star, and that’s how he was able to get the full map." Internet as obverse of Death Star. 'Frictionless' postmodern capitalism. From material to symbolic production, from centralist-hierarchical logic to the logic of self-organisation and multi-centred co-operation. Maz's bar is the very model of the hip new workplace. Open plan: I'm not your boss, I'm your friend. The IPod Revolution becomes an IPod Resistance against the control of this privatized commons. "And now it calls to you." "Millennials have embraced the need to globalize, and have become the first generation of truly global citizens. We’re the first generation to spend all of our grown years in a world where connecting to people from all over the world, instantly and constantly, seems normal and natural."* Hyperspeed interconnection of planets. Worlds blur together. So why are they still harvesting junk in Somalia? "A consequence of the rise in productivity brought about by the exponentially growing impact of collective knowledge is a change in the role of unemployment. It is the very success of capitalism (greater efficiency, raised productivity etc) which produces unemployment, rendering more and more workers useless: what should be a blessing – less hard labour needed – becomes a curse. Or, to put it differently, the chance to be exploited in a long-term job is now experienced as a privilege." -Zizek Rey: "you're offering me a job?!" Don't Just Ask A Millennial - Hire One *"David D. Burstein, 23, is a writer, filmmaker, and passionate believer in the millennial generation. [...] For his work he was honored with a 2009 DoSomething Award and his story was featured on millions of Doritos bags."
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May 1, 2016 17:17
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Rey: "you're offering me a job?!" This is becoming sublime. I really feel like we're on the cusp of total understanding here.
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May 1, 2016 17:24
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Young people are bad.
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May 1, 2016 17:29
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TFRazorsaw posted:Young people are bad.
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May 1, 2016 17:30
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I believe that the world will be changed by snobbish intellectuals that thumb their nose at the next generation while reaping the benefits of the undeserved celebrity they condemn.
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May 1, 2016 17:33
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TFRazorsaw posted:I believe that the world will be changed by snobbish intellectuals that thumb their nose at the next generation while reaping the benefits of the undeserved celebrity they condemn. Did you not read? The world is being changed by the new generation. Neurolimnal is an ideologist of "the information revolution". His 'pragmatic idealism' already had an ironic, oxymoronic term: 'liberal communism'. "So who are these liberal communists? The usual suspects: Bill Gates and George Soros, the CEOs of Google, IBM, Intel, eBay, as well as court-philosophers like Thomas Friedman. The true conservatives today, they argue, are not only the old right, with its ridiculous belief in authority, order and parochial patriotism, but also the old left, with its war against capitalism: both fight their shadow-theatre battles in disregard of the new realities. The signifier of this new reality in the liberal communist Newspeak is ‘smart’. Being smart means being dynamic and nomadic, and against centralised bureaucracy; believing in dialogue and co-operation as against central authority; in flexibility as against routine; culture and knowledge as against industrial production; in spontaneous interaction and autopoiesis as against fixed hierarchy. Bill Gates is the icon of what he has called ‘frictionless capitalism’, the post-industrial society and the ‘end of labour’. Software is winning over hardware and the young nerd over the old manager in his black suit. In the new company headquarters, there is little external discipline; former hackers dominate the scene, working long hours, enjoying free drinks in green surroundings. The underlying notion here is that Gates is a subversive marginal hooligan, an ex-hacker, who has taken over and dressed himself up as a respectable chairman." -Zizek Rey: I didn't know there was this much green in all the galaxy. A million dollars isn't cool. You know what's cool? A billion dollars.
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May 1, 2016 17:52
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Schwarzwald posted:Keep in mind we're discussing Star Wars, a series of films wherein space liberal democracy segues into space fascism. No they are not equivalent, the very first scene in the very first star wars movie establishes that the republic has been disbanded and the empire established. It doesn't matter if it was a long slow process with no clear dividing line, the republic is dead and the emperor rules. Bourgeois democracy is not good. Bourgeois democracy is preferable to genocidal fascism.
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May 1, 2016 18:02
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Pretty creepy how people only start lobbing spitballs at me after I'm done posting for the day. HookedOnChthonics posted:Neuro "Labor ennobles the chattel slave, and their alien unknowable heart probably enjoys it anyway" limal Their heart isn't unknowable; we directly see their feelings onscreen. They do not resent their duty. We see no evidence of slavery on the part of the Republic with regards to the Clone race. MonsieurChoc posted:It's kind of amazing how simple concepts, expressed in unsubtle ways, are so hard tog rasp for some people. Not many people currently arguing are suggesting that the Jedi and the Republic do not fail; only that they do not start the prequels having already failed. TFA shows that they can; the Empire is marginalized, planets are allowed independence, droids are free within the republic, and we are never shown any instance of fascism or aggression even within the script nor deleted scenes. Only that there exist malice towards Leia/the leftists and doubt towards the threat of the Empire's new generation. You will never find unanimous perfection within a democracy. Again, the focal critique of TFA appears to be that they dare to continue the universe without perfection nor holy reverence of the original trilogy. It's a bizarre critique to pair with "they don't do enough controversial things". SuperMechagodzilla posted:Did you not read? The world is being changed by the new generation. Neurolimnal is an ideologist of "the information revolution". His 'pragmatic idealism' already had an ironic, oxymoronic term: 'liberal communism'. This is a pretty good Dane Cook routine, but there's more to arguing than crying that you dont' relate to the new generation.
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May 1, 2016 18:16
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Neurolimal posted:TFA shows that they can; the Empire is marginalized, planets are allowed independence, droids are free within the republic, and we are never shown any instance of fascism or aggression even within the script nor deleted scenes. Only that there exist malice towards Leia/the leftists and doubt towards the threat of the Empire's new generation. You will never find unanimous perfection within a democracy. The Empire genocides a planet in TFA. This includes the New Republic. The New Republic failed. Neurolimal posted:This is a pretty good Dane Cook routine, but there's more to arguing than crying that you dont' relate to the new generation. Your fear and hatred of spectral "squares" and "oldies" is as weird as ever. Again, are you still unaware of the hypocrisy of praising change and innovation while putting people in boxes so that you can dismiss them?
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May 1, 2016 18:49
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Neurolimal posted:Their heart isn't unknowable; we directly see their feelings onscreen. They do not resent their duty. We see no evidence of slavery on the part of the Republic with regards to the Clone race. The clones are literally sold to the Jedi. Moreover, the assertion that people cannot be slaves so long as they are happy is morally repugnant.
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May 1, 2016 18:55
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Neurolimal posted:there's more to arguing than crying that you dont' relate to the new generation. I'm actually agreeing with you, silly. You have convinced me that the film is about 'Millennials' - a term you use as a substitute for 'Information Capitalists'.    
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May 1, 2016 18:55
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