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JerryLee posted:Yeah, I bought the Pathfinder core book at some point, though I never did play it because by that point it was years later and my group had broken up after the release of 4E, which partially addresses Nuns with Guns's implied question above. I admit that it's kind of stupid in retrospect to let an edition shift disrupt your will to play the game and to miss the obvious solution of just keeping rolling with 3E, but you have to understand, I was excited about 4E at first. I preordered the books and everything, and I spent a while trying to justify that initial excitement, combined with the (again, stupid in retrospect) line of thinking that "it's the new edition, this is what D&D is now, I have to like it." When I drifted away from it, I drifted away from TTRPGs generally. So yeah, I have this Pathfinder book that I've never actually used in a game. I'm more likely to play Pathfinder than I am to ever touch 4E again, though. It's not really anything personal to 4E; it's the same reason why I wouldn't jump at the chance to try and carry over all my source material to 13th Age or anything else. From what I've seen of it so far, Dungeon World just happens to hit the sweet spot of having modern, goon-approved rules whilst seeming to ask very little of me for importing whatever ideas I want. "Don't slaughter sacred cows if you're also going to give everybody all the tools the need to siphon away your fanbase directly by filing the serial numbers off your own game and turning it into theirs" is pretty decent advice, yes. The judges would also accept "don't listen to Ryan Dancey."
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May 1, 2016 05:43
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Kai Tave posted:"Don't slaughter sacred cows if you're also going to give everybody all the tools the need to siphon away your fanbase directly by filing the serial numbers off your own game and turning it into theirs" is pretty decent advice, yes. The judges would also accept "don't listen to Ryan Dancey." Touche, although Mantic has demonstrated that you don't need to directly "steal" someone's ruleset in order to eat their lunch when they piss off most of their existing base 
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May 1, 2016 05:46
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JerryLee posted:Touche, although Mantic has demonstrated that you don't need to directly "steal" someone's ruleset in order to eat their lunch when they piss off most of their existing base That's something I'm actually kind of curious about. Games Workshop has been around for donkey's years in tabletop game terms but it seems like only recently are we seeing a renaissance in the fantasy/sci-fi wargaming scene, among which is Kings of War, but GW has been pissing people off for decades...I remember seeing extremely similar "loving hell another GW price hike" complaints nearly 15 years ago...but that didn't seem to result in any serious competitors to their dominance of the fantasy/sci-fi wargame market cropping up. Warmachine started up a while back I know, it actually got its genesis as an idea for a 3.X campaign setting just to bring things full circle and the wargame kind of grew out of that after the people involved were like "hey how about we make some minis or something?" but Privateer's growth into a strong competitor was a gradual one, not an overnight success. So if GW has been lovely for decades, why is it only now we're seeing this big boom in competitors for them? My working theory, unsupported by anything, is that it takes both a combination of a significant catalyst as opposed to simple ongoing gripes...an edition change plus an OGL, Age of Sigmar, etc...but also a drain of creative talent to form your competition to see something like this happen all at once. Paizo after all started up their own gig only after WotC cut them loose and brought Dragon and Dungeon magazines and associated adventure stuff which Paizo had been working on for WotC in-house, and I believe Mantic has some former GW staffers working for them.
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May 1, 2016 05:56
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ProfessorCirno posted:The average age of ttg players is going up every year. New blood just isn't getting in. So you're stuck with old players who cling to their security blanket games. I mean, I know this is the common wisdom regarding the fandom on the internet, and I certainly don't have any hard data to disprove it. I used to believe it, myself. Anecdotal observations of the number of teens and young twenty-somethings playing Pathfinder games at the GenCon before last suggest to me that things are not as dire as all that, though. Terrible Opinions posted:What in the gently caress are you talking about. Did d20 somehow make otherwise decent game designers into hacks or somehow make d20 so popular that it pressured all other RPGs off the market? Hell no, games at the time were already imploding from well all the excesses of 90s RPG design. oWoD didn't collapse in the early 2000s because mean old d20 killed it. oWoD collapsed because White Wolf's massive excesses could no longer be sustained. Same general thing with RIFTs, Deadlands, and all the other 90s rpgs that killed themselves out of purestrain 90s game design. Unless of course you mean that d20 didn't nearly kill gaming until after 4th edition came out which wouldn't make any sense because during that time D&D 4th edition was the most popular game on the market until Essentials murdered it stone dead. The D20 boom did do real damage to the industry as a whole, though. A lot of FLGSs were left with a lot of dead stock when things went bust - some went under as a result, others decided to pull out of RPGs almost entirely to focus instead on comics and CCGs. While you could make the argument that this is something that would have happened anyway, since buying whole hog into the boom betrays some poor business decisions in the first place (and you might be right), at the very least this means it hastened an inevitable decline in the hobby's visibility.
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May 1, 2016 06:00
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To be fair, paizo was already working with the toolset to make well-regarded 3e adventures and write both Dragon and Dungeon magazines for wotc. Then the 4e license came out and stated that you couldn't publish third party 4e material and 3e material at the same time , and wotc also dropped paizo as the magazine publisher. So paizo had to decide whether or not to convert to a new edition they had no familiarity with and no professional attachment to anymore, while also cutting off the only other viable source of income (3e splats and adventures). when you consider that, Pathfinder makes more sense and so does their willingness to play off the dissatisfaction people had with 4e in a lot of their early marketing
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May 1, 2016 06:02
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Kai Tave posted:That's something I'm actually kind of curious about. Games Workshop has been around for donkey's years in tabletop game terms but it seems like only recently are we seeing a renaissance in the fantasy/sci-fi wargaming scene, among which is Kings of War, but GW has been pissing people off for decades...I remember seeing extremely similar "loving hell another GW price hike" complaints nearly 15 years ago...but that didn't seem to result in any serious competitors to their dominance of the fantasy/sci-fi wargame market cropping up. Warmachine started up a while back I know, it actually got its genesis as an idea for a 3.X campaign setting just to bring things full circle and the wargame kind of grew out of that after the people involved were like "hey how about we make some minis or something?" but Privateer's growth into a strong competitor was a gradual one, not an overnight success. So if GW has been lovely for decades, why is it only now we're seeing this big boom in competitors for them? My working theory, unsupported by anything, is that it takes both a combination of a significant catalyst as opposed to simple ongoing gripes...an edition change plus an OGL, Age of Sigmar, etc...but also a drain of creative talent to form your competition to see something like this happen all at once. Paizo after all started up their own gig only after WotC cut them loose and brought Dragon and Dungeon magazines and associated adventure stuff which Paizo had been working on for WotC in-house, and I believe Mantic has some former GW staffers working for them. This is reasonable thinking, IMO, though it's obviously just speculation. To make my previous post not just a cheap quip, I really do think that, even though the OGL and Paizo being able to make Almost Literally 3E didn't do Wizards any favors, it wasn't a great position for them to put themselves in if there were any other possible heirs to the throne. "Well, it's really not any more of a discontinuity to jump to this Not-D&D than it is to jump to the new edition of D&D" isn't something you want to give your customers the chance to think.
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May 1, 2016 06:09
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JerryLee posted:This is reasonable thinking, IMO, though it's obviously just speculation. In theory I agree, but in practice there aren't a ton of Lisa Stevenses out there in this hobby. It's entirely speculative, but even if WotC had continued on as they'd done with the OGL and the 3E-4E transition as it happened, if they had instead of cutting Paizo loose instead gone "hey Paizo, we're working on a new edition and we'd love for you guys to continue on as our adventure and magazine content production team, please come and join us, also we'd like Lisa Stevens to be the head of our newly created Stop loving Laying Everyone Off Every December You Imbeciles department," would someone else have stepped up to make Pathfinder in Paizo's stead? Lisa Stevens is a long-time tradgame industry insider, she has contacts to draw on and apparently a shrewd business acumen. That combined with a recently discarded crew of people with a bunch of non-transferable elfgame writing skills just waiting to go into business for themselves don't come along every day. I'm sure that someone would have eventually tried, but I doubt it would have been done with the same marketing savvy and production values or even had the same cachet behind it as "by the people who formerly used to bring you Dragon and Dungeon Magazines and these adventures you maybe know and love."
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May 1, 2016 06:22
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Oh yeah, I totally don't blame Pathfinder for existing. Paizo was in a rather lovely position and made the most of it with a vengeance, even if it took driving a wedge in the hobby to do so, and Pathfinder was pretty much the inevitable result of the relationship between Paizo and WotC at the time. It's pretty much all on WotC for loving up badly by
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May 1, 2016 08:44
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Asimo posted:Oh yeah, I totally don't blame Pathfinder for existing. Paizo was in a rather lovely position and made the most of it with a vengeance, even if it took driving a wedge in the hobby to do so, and Pathfinder was pretty much the inevitable result of the relationship between Paizo and WotC at the time. It's pretty much all on WotC for loving up badly by Well the OGL was what let Paizo do what they did, what made them want to do what they did was WotC effectively cutting them loose. The current state of affairs with regards to WotC, Paizo, D&D, and Pathfinder can't really be ascribed to a single bad decision, it's the result of multiple bad decisions (or at the very least decisions whose consequences weren't fully considered) all coming together in a perfect alchemical mixture for WotC to create their own biggest competitor and feed them a premade customer base. It's been said before but it's going to be interesting to see how Paizo handles the inevitable Pathfinder 2nd Edition that has to come out at some point. I'd say that Lisa Stevens is smart enough to avoid making similar mistakes, but she wasn't smart enough to keep Ryan Dancey from milking her fanbase for a couple million dollars for Star Citizen Pathfinder Edition after all (this is of course the charitable assumption, the extremely cynical assumption would be that she knew that there was no way in hell Dancey could deliver on what he was promising but that PATHFINDER MMO GET HYPE made for great publicity that she didn't have to pay a dime for so she let him do it anyway).
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May 1, 2016 08:55
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She sure as hell didn't let him spend the company money. Pathfinder Online was kept safely quarantined in its own financially distinct company from the very beginning because Lisa Stevens may have HOPED it would be successful, but she wasn't going to gamble on it.
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May 1, 2016 09:15
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Terrible Opinions posted:Except in this case they're other people grabbing from the company not the company grabbing from peeps. None of the people who designed 3rd edition or 4th edition dungeons and dragons work at WotC work there anymore. Why should anyone care about the magic card factory? If someone was making a 4E Pathfinder of any quality I'd buy it if only to spite WotC. I don't particularly care about Wizards of the Coast's well-being these days. All I mean is that d20 is a franchise built on the hard work of people largely discarded by those who profit from it (aside from Monte, who rather brilliantly spun his 3e cred into a personal brand). Kai Tave posted:I'd say that Lisa Stevens is smart enough to avoid making similar mistakes, but she wasn't smart enough to keep Ryan Dancey from milking her fanbase for a couple million dollars for Star Citizen Pathfinder Edition after all (this is of course the charitable assumption, the extremely cynical assumption would be that she knew that there was no way in hell Dancey could deliver on what he was promising but that PATHFINDER MMO GET HYPE made for great publicity that she didn't have to pay a dime for so she let him do it anyway). Yeah. The ongoing debacle that is the Pathfinder MMO is really the one thing that will probably keep me from being sympathetic to Paizo for the foreseeable future. There's a lot I respect about what they've done for themselves as a company, but that's a huge black mark against them. I respect Lisa Stevens a hell of a lot, but she ever trusts Dancey with a project bigger than a pamphlet again, that'd probably be the last straw for me.
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May 1, 2016 09:29
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Tendales posted:She sure as hell didn't let him spend the company money. Pathfinder Online was kept safely quarantined in its own financially distinct company from the very beginning because Lisa Stevens may have HOPED it would be successful, but she wasn't going to gamble on it. Alien Rope Burn posted:Yeah. The ongoing debacle that is the Pathfinder MMO is really the one thing that will probably keep me from being sympathetic to Paizo for the foreseeable future. There's a lot I respect about what they've done for themselves as a company, but that's a huge black mark against them. I respect Lisa Stevens a hell of a lot, but she ever trusts Dancey with a project bigger than a pamphlet again, that'd probably be the last straw for me.
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May 1, 2016 09:43
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Asimo posted:From the desperation in their backer updates it probably wasn't just a scam, but what was the actual plan and how early and often did it go off the rails? You may notice a lack of things like "understanding the current MMO market" or any other very critical things to making a videogame, let alone an MMO, in there. And that's where I think things went wrong.
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May 1, 2016 09:50
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Not even like UO but better, but "EVE, but get this, with goblins, and on the ground" Dancey's whole pitch was that he was coming off being a marketing guy for EVE online. (IIRC while there he was involved with the whole 60 dollar monocle debacle, so, uh....yeah.) That's why there's a pathfinder MMO with no classes or any familiar elements, just skills that you can queue up to train while offline, everything's supposed to be player based content, etc, etc.
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May 1, 2016 11:30
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Kai Tave posted:That's something I'm actually kind of curious about. Games Workshop has been around for donkey's years in tabletop game terms but it seems like only recently are we seeing a renaissance in the fantasy/sci-fi wargaming scene, among which is Kings of War, but GW has been pissing people off for decades...I remember seeing extremely similar "loving hell another GW price hike" complaints nearly 15 years ago...but that didn't seem to result in any serious competitors to their dominance of the fantasy/sci-fi wargame market cropping up. Warmachine started up a while back I know, it actually got its genesis as an idea for a 3.X campaign setting just to bring things full circle and the wargame kind of grew out of that after the people involved were like "hey how about we make some minis or something?" but Privateer's growth into a strong competitor was a gradual one, not an overnight success. So if GW has been lovely for decades, why is it only now we're seeing this big boom in competitors for them? My working theory, unsupported by anything, is that it takes both a combination of a significant catalyst as opposed to simple ongoing gripes...an edition change plus an OGL, Age of Sigmar, etc...but also a drain of creative talent to form your competition to see something like this happen all at once. Paizo after all started up their own gig only after WotC cut them loose and brought Dragon and Dungeon magazines and associated adventure stuff which Paizo had been working on for WotC in-house, and I believe Mantic has some former GW staffers working for them. A combination of bad rules getting worse and Kickstarter being a big thing has really eaten into GW's dominance. The bad rules are obvious: 40k past 4th edition got progressively worse, as they kept stapling on rules to an aging system that was in desperate need of an overhaul but which they were too invested in/lazy to bother. The same is said of WHFB; mid-way through 7th, they completely screwed the pooch in terms of balance, leaving 3 armies that utterly dominated the tournament scene. This is about where people started seeing the cracks form, and where other companies began to step in with more mechanically sound games--FoW, Malifaux, Warmahordes, etc. started getting their first editions at around this time, or beginning to get a bigger foothold with their previously established games. 6th edition 40k and 8th ed. WHFB didn't do GW any favors either, as beyond their initial push and promises of a more balanced game they very quickly fumbled the ball and ruined both of them (especially with End Times/AOS killing off WHFB in most local communities). All those dumb formations being pushed on players in 7th is straining even the most dedicated of players, and if 8th ed. 40k comes around and is somehow akin to AoS in terms of badness I fully expect a mass exodus of players in response. Kickstarter is pretty obvious, but it's to be stated that it's now much, much easier to get the funding needed to get miniatures made. People are putting out incredibly successful KSes for models that don't even have a game attached to them, nevermind the ones that do have a system to go with their plastic crack dollies. Previously it required a lot more funding to get stuff up and going, which wasn't even guaranteed to sell well compared to the 800 lb gorilla that is Games Workshop. It's a whole different story now. The quality of these models can vary wildly, of course, but some companies are quickly getting to (if not exceeding) GW's quality for plastics. You're also absolutely right about talent being drained off, by the way. No one who helped found GW is at the company any more, and people like Andy Chambers and Rick Priestly are off doing their own projects to considerable success.
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May 1, 2016 13:25
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Again, Dancey has an almost supernatural ability to get cozy with people and products that anyone should be able to just glance at and immediately know it's a bad idea. It's not that he ruins everything he touches that's amazing, it's that he keeps being given more chances.
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May 1, 2016 13:27
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ProfessorCirno posted:Again, Dancey has an almost supernatural ability to get cozy with people and products that anyone should be able to just glance at and immediately know it's a bad idea. It's not that he ruins everything he touches that's amazing, it's that he keeps being given more chances. Haven't you ever been in a job interview where they asked you a "tell us about a previous challenge/failure, and what you learned from it" question? He has so many good answers for that one.
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May 1, 2016 14:44
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unseenlibrarian posted:Not even like UO but better, but "EVE, but get this, with goblins, and on the ground" Dancey's whole pitch was that he was coming off being a marketing guy for EVE online. (IIRC while there he was involved with the whole 60 dollar monocle debacle, so, uh....yeah.) That's why there's a pathfinder MMO with no classes or any familiar elements, just skills that you can queue up to train while offline, everything's supposed to be player based content, etc, etc. My favorite bit about the Monocle thing was the current CEO Telling people that they should be judged harshly for their fashion sense in real life. quote:People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes. Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. Do you have any specific brands? Did you choose it because it was better quality than a no-name brand? Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop. Why would you want to wear a pair of $1,000 jeans when you can get perfectly similar jeans for under $50? What do other people think about you when they see you wearing them? For some you will look like the sad culmination of vainness while others will admire you and think you are the coolest thing since sliced bread. Whichever it is, it is clear that by wearing clothes you are expressing yourself and that the price is one of the many dimensions that clothes possess to do that in addition to style and fit. You don't need to buy expensive clothes. In fact you don't need to buy any clothes. Whatever you choose to do reflects what you are and what you want others to think you are.
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May 1, 2016 17:19
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Tendales posted:She sure as hell didn't let him spend the company money. Pathfinder Online was kept safely quarantined in its own financially distinct company from the very beginning because Lisa Stevens may have HOPED it would be successful, but she wasn't going to gamble on it. Y'know, I've heard the whole "well it was Goblinworks and not Paizo, therefore Lisa Stevens is blameless" argument before but I don't buy it. Stevens let a guy with no experience managing a project of that scope use her brand to milk her fanbase for millions of dollars, taking thousands of dollars for heady promises of nonexistent virtual taverns and other such horseshit that should have had her stepping in and saying "hey wait a minute." Maybe legally she's totally in the clear, but I feel that ethically there are certain obligations to one's loyal customers that she completely elided over, and make no mistake, she did benefit from the PFO Kickstarters in terms of publicity and exposure for Pathfinder. And now PFO is dead in the water. Ryan Dancey left the project several weeks before Stevens had to break the news for "personal reasons." Now all that's left are like two shellshocked people and Stevens HAS assumed responsibility for the project which is almost assuredly never going to manifest in the form promised if ever, which means all those lifetime subscribers and virtual landowners basically paid to keep Ryan Dancey gainfully employed for a couple few years before he breezed off to his next adventure. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 19:13 on May 1, 2016 |
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May 1, 2016 18:53
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ProfessorCirno posted:Again, Dancey has an almost supernatural ability to get cozy with people and products that anyone should be able to just glance at and immediately know it's a bad idea. It's not that he ruins everything he touches that's amazing, it's that he keeps being given more chances. After 2002, though, his career has resembled that Simpsons scene where Sideshow Bob keep stepping on rakes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbd4t-ua-WQ Yeeesh. --- As for why GW is currently under siege, I think there was some kind of change in the cost of making good miniatures. I got the sense that GW reigned almost unopposed for the 1990s and most of the 2000s because the capital costs of starting and running a full-line miniatures company was just so high, especially to go into a market with one giant entrenched incumbent. But every time I go to the game store I see yet another new standalone minis game (Mars Attacks? Team Yankee? Seriously?) so something in the production/distribution economics must've changed in the last decade or so. And GW was so safe behind its moat for so long that they really have no idea how to compete in a world where they can't rely on their former commanding superiority in distribution and economies of scale.
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May 1, 2016 19:48
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How well did the L5R ccg perform? I know locally only a handful at best of people were interested in it so I want to know how it performed in places aside from my local area or nationally. I know of only one store that stocked it and this was not because it sold, but because he liked the setting. The other stores never stocked it due to lack of demand. Hell the overpower CCG was more popular locally and that bombed pretty badly.
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May 1, 2016 21:10
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Aaod posted:How well did the L5R ccg perform? I know locally only a handful at best of people were interested in it so I want to know how it performed in places aside from my local area or nationally. I know of only one store that stocked it and this was not because it sold, but because he liked the setting. The other stores never stocked it due to lack of demand. Hell the overpower CCG was more popular locally and that bombed pretty badly. It performed well enough that it still existed and had an active scene and ongoing support until the brand was just recently purchased from AEG by Fantasy Flight Games. Now I can't speak to their exact financials and tell you how many millions of dollars it made, but ask yourself how many other CCGs from that era besides Magic were still kicking around until late 2015, and there's your answer.
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May 1, 2016 21:17
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Does the SGL still exist? Can you legally make 4e content?
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May 1, 2016 21:23
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Covok posted:Does the SGL still exist? Can you legally make 4e content? The GSL? Stuff is still being produced - like the Zeitgeist adventure path - but there might be hurdles regarding getting a new license as opposed to just using your existing one.
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May 1, 2016 21:38
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Legend of the Five Rings lasted 20 years without a break; that makes it one of the oldest CCGs that was still in production until 2015, and Magic was the only older CCG still in continuous production at that point that I can think of. It was definitely a niche audience and never the moneygrinder like Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh are, but it seemed to be successful enough to maintain one of the larger fandoms in gaming.
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May 1, 2016 21:42
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dwarf74 posted:The GSL? Stuff is still being produced - like the Zeitgeist adventure path - but there might be hurdles regarding getting a new license as opposed to just using your existing one. Just curious if feeding all of 4e's powers into a markov chain then having it spit out power after power, telling it which one is good so it learns, and then cleaning up the good ones into something useful is in violation of 4e's licensing rules or not. Yes, I saw the Magic The Gathering one.
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May 1, 2016 21:51
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FMguru posted:Another thing about Dancey was that his 1990s track record was really good. He launched the L5R CCG, probably the biggest hit of the wave of post-MtG clones (and with an original property!) and got it sold to WotC and got paid, while pretty much every other game of its generation crashed and burned. And when he was at WotC he oversaw the design and launch of D&D 3E, which was a huge success. Not everything he touched back then turned to gold ("Rolling Thunder", anyone?), but he really was something of a credible TTG visionary back then (granted, the competing visions were things like "I'm gonna make AD&D but with more complicated rules" and "what the world really needs is another hex-and-counter re-enactment of Gettysburg"). Hell, I'll even stand up for part of the D20 license - outsourcing the production of low-margin setting books and adventures to small publishers to drive an ecosystem that sold high-margin WotC core books is actually a good idea, it just wasn't fully thought out and implemented well. I don't know about it first hand, but the thing is, everything I've heard about Rolling Thunder paints it as an unmitigated disaster. The OGL likewise almost immediately became a horrific disaster, and it was one everyone here probably could've called out as such if told about it firsthand. If we're sticking to his time at WotC, there was him trying to kill off the Jyhad card game for personal reasons. And don't forget his big push for Organized Play that stumbled and crashed and died. I dunno how much of a visionary he was in the 1990's, but by the mid-late 2000's, the only places I saw anyone defending him were on d20 fansites, and we all know how delusional they are.
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May 1, 2016 21:52
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ProfessorCirno posted:I don't know about it first hand, but the thing is, everything I've heard about Rolling Thunder paints it as an unmitigated disaster. Well, there was the advantage that I got to clean up on unsold Doomtown packs on my local store!... yeah, it was a trainwreck, one that even Dancey admits, even though he tries to cast blame on anything but the actual idea; the state of the market, the unwillingness of stores to embrace their genius, the phase of the moon...
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May 1, 2016 22:17
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And just in case anyone here has forgotten about it or never knew, let's not all forget the time that Ryan Dancey hacked into confidential emails of the GAMA board of directors just prior to getting himself elected as their treasurer.
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May 1, 2016 22:23
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Man, and I thought GAMA was run by clowns just by how they handle Origins.
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May 1, 2016 22:26
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Basically, gently caress Ryan Dancey.
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May 1, 2016 22:39
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Ryan Dancey managed to kill off Living City, which had the most fanatically loyal player base I had ever seen, and basically kept the RPGA going through the long dark of the late nineties. He also managed to nearly kill GenCon. Literally the only actual success he has ever had was L5R, and very little of that was due to him, and he also almost killed it twice. Once with rolling thunder, once with the sale to WotC. Ryan Dancey ruins everything he touches.
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May 1, 2016 22:49
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NinjaDebugger posted:Ryan Dancey ruins everything he touches. Must be hard to shower.
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May 1, 2016 23:00
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NinjaDebugger posted:Ryan Dancey managed to kill off Living City, which had the most fanatically loyal player base I had ever seen, and basically kept the RPGA going through the long dark of the late nineties. And yet he kept getting hired. Maybe his weird streak is finally done - Goblinworks might've been the final nail in the coffin. I'm not sure though. I still think any day we'll hear about him being hired back into WotC to work on Magic or something else that's utterly ridiculous.
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May 1, 2016 23:28
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Forgiveness in the TG industry runs deep, whether that's good or bad.
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May 2, 2016 00:05
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It's bad.
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May 2, 2016 00:16
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Forgiveness in the TG industry runs deep, whether that's good or bad. Witness how many chances Ken Whitman has been given to screw over basically everyone he's ever been in business with.
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May 2, 2016 00:24
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Geek social fallacies are just as strong even when it's geeks running businesses.
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May 2, 2016 01:17
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unseenlibrarian posted:Not even like UO but better, but "EVE, but get this, with goblins, and on the ground" Dancey's whole pitch was that he was coming off being a marketing guy for EVE online. (IIRC while there he was involved with the whole 60 dollar monocle debacle, so, uh....yeah.) That's why there's a pathfinder MMO with no classes or any familiar elements, just skills that you can queue up to train while offline, everything's supposed to be player based content, etc, etc. He wanted to make it like EVE but also not like EVE because he wanted to be able to ban any large outside groups (like Goonswarm) from rolling in and ruining everyone's fun by being aggressive and competitive. this was an actual item available in their cash shop:  (even during beta the subscriptions were the same monthly amount fully-released games charge) note that you get a tavern which is only indestructible for 6 months... after that you have to rebuy protection or else mean pvpers can blow it up. this was also an MMO based on a dungeon-crawling RPG with no dungeons and no plans to add dungeons for the foreseeable future.
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May 2, 2016 01:23
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Nuns with Guns posted:this was also an MMO based on a dungeon-crawling RPG with no dungeons and no plans to add dungeons for the foreseeable future. I know they produced a number of adventure modules for Pathfinder that were designed to tie into Pathfinder Online, all of which involved dungeons (or in one case, a SUPER DUNGEON). If there were really no plans for dungeons in the game then suddenly things have become even more 
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May 2, 2016 01:27
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