|
So you can invade the pope? Thats weird, i feel that maybe the anti-pope claim shouldnt lead to war but rather be an event chain or something that eventually lead to getting your guy or being excommunicated. If you are catholic ofc, otherwise, war on.
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 14:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 21:37 |
|
|
Honestly I wish antipopes were nerfed a bunch, or the Investiture Controversy fleshed out. Catholicism collapses into heresies every time in the 1066 start because the HRE names an antipope and it stays that way forever. There's no non-military way for that to change and there are no diplomatic consequences to popping a hat on some rando parish priest and naming him the successor of St Peter, whereas historically the Emperor had to back down because his own vassals refused to recognize his fake pope. Sadly you can't do that in-game and MA just plummets barring freak incidents or player intervention.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 18:12
|
|
|
At the very least, controlling an antipope should have all other Catholic characters treat you as if you're excommunicated. I mean it's basically the most heretical thing you can do without embracing an actual heresy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 18:36
|
|
|
Guildencrantz posted:Honestly I wish antipopes were nerfed a bunch, or the Investiture Controversy fleshed out. Catholicism collapses into heresies every time in the 1066 start because the HRE names an antipope and it stays that way forever. There's no non-military way for that to change and there are no diplomatic consequences to popping a hat on some rando parish priest and naming him the successor of St Peter, whereas historically the Emperor had to back down because his own vassals refused to recognize his fake pope. Sadly you can't do that in-game and MA just plummets barring freak incidents or player intervention. I've actually had my vassals go to war to put down an anti-pope and had to deal with the cooldown when I wanted to declare my own anti-pope and vassalize the Papacy. Then again, I use a homebrew mod that makes rulers much more powerful by letting them directly control many more holdings.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 19:03
|
|
|
Having a technical issue, I need someone to make peace with someone else so I can start my plot and they do have a 100% warscore but the offending party is dead so they can't make peace. I tried swapping to the character i want to be at peace and offering demands but no dice. edit: loading a save solved it. Odd occurrence anyway. Goofballs fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Apr 30, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 23:58
|
|
|
Honestly, the pope should be more of a tedious dick. I remember back in Medieval: Total War, if you were warring against another Christian realm that he liked better, he would go all like "Well sucker, you better peace out or I'm gonna excommunicate you". Maybe he should then gift you more or possibly offer claims for free against dicks? I dunno. To be fair, that system works differently very differently with that combat system. But still. The Pope does gently caress all anymore than be a piggybank unless you start with the Free Investure for some drat reason, in which case he never does anything for you, ever. darthbob88 posted:Honestly I could be down with a race war CB, similar to holy war but aimed at people of a different culture group. Palefaces go home, we're taking our land back. Of course then there'd be the small problem of how many culture groups are in ATE; the sort of person who wants a race war probably wasn't thinking of Portlanders carving a swathe through Coloradans or Yoopers crushing Dixie. Likewise, while Cetic is pretty close to Atheism: The Religion, adding Euphoric Enlightenment might well be good; make it basically Old World Cultist Buddhism, with learning bonus, no holy war obviously, but possibly Crusade/Prepared Invasion to bring reason to the god-botherers, and maybe an increased tyranny penalty and/or excommunication for being irrational.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2016 15:32
|
|
|
PC Gamer once had a list of the greatest video game villains of all time and The Pope(from Medieval II: Total War) ranked pretty high. That guy was an absolute dick. When I was playing as Hungary I had assassins parked in Rome for decades to kill every single Pope that displeased me or hosed me over which was basically every Pope. I really wish they'd have implemented the Pope excommunicating everyone who doesn't toe the line when they did Sons of Abraham. FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 04:39 on May 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 04:33
|
|
|
Maybe it's for the best if the pope isn't constantly pissing everyone off, considering how CKII's mechanics work, unless Paradox wants the game to go through popes like 24 went through presidents.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 05:10
|
|
|
I remember that in CK1 if you were fighting other Christians the Pope would excommunicate you if you didn't stop. I didn't put as much time into CK1 as I have CK2 (I was able to upgrade), but I do distinctly remember being pissed because one time he did that to me while I was fighting a revolting (in both cases of the word) vassal.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 05:17
|
|
|
Seeing as you can vassalize the pope it'd be a huge deal if he was very powerful and very influential. Even with "gives you lots of free money" having a vassal pope is already incredibly desirable.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 05:18
|
|
|
DStecks posted:Maybe it's for the best if the pope isn't constantly pissing everyone off, considering how CKII's mechanics work, unless Paradox wants the game to go through popes like 24 went through presidents. It basically already does that considering how old the Popes usually are when they get elected. I don't think I've ever seen a Pope last longer than a decade. ToxicSlurpee posted:Seeing as you can vassalize the pope it'd be a huge deal if he was very powerful and very influential. Even with "gives you lots of free money" having a vassal pope is already incredibly desirable. You could probably counter that with some kind of "liberate the papacy" CB granted to Catholic rulers, although honestly it would probably take a fairly massive redesign to make the Pope really reflect the level of power and influence he actually had in that era in a way that didn't feel crowbarred in. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 06:17 on May 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 06:15
|
|
|
The pope is already influential, though moreso in that he's a vending machine for money and claims than in actually having much agency. Perhaps the best plan would be to integrate that with the favours system a lot more - have the pope call in favours to get people to contribute to crusades, join an alliance to depose an anti-pope, spend their money building more church holdings, that sort of thing. And perhaps you can call in papal favours to get a share in the rewards from a crusade, instead of it all going to whoever contributed the most warscore. You could also do some rework of crusades and holy wars, so that the attacking force could gain more than just one de jure kingdom if they were able to occupy it all. (For example, this would be necessary if you wanted to match the historical first crusade, which created several crusader states all along that area.)
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 07:51
|
|
|
if i could owe a favor to the pope i want him to be able to own a favor to me likewise to all heads of religion that can be hey! great holy war! when im like omfg im fighting everyone around me please dont tank my RA off the Holy Roman Empire
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 08:12
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:It basically already does that considering how old the Popes usually are when they get elected. I don't think I've ever seen a Pope last longer than a decade. Really? I've had quite a lot of Popes that lived for 20-30 years. I even had one in my last game, who was a 20y/o (approx.) Fraticelli heresiarch who revolted in Rome, threw the Pope out of the Bishopric of Rome, then converted back to Catholicism shortly after, then became a Cardinal and was elected Pope (thus bringing Rome back into the fold) before he was 25!  It sure was something to witness, that's for sure. If I recall correctly he also led the only successful crusades, during his long reign as Pope.EDIT: But yeah, I definitely think a more 'active' Pope (similar to the one mentioned in Med2TW, as mentioned) would make things more interesting. At the moment he seems a touch too toothless.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 11:49
|
|
|
One Papal flavour feature that would be cool to get back from CK1 would be beatification and sainthood for your ancestors.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 12:42
|
|
|
a thing that bugs me at the moment is the building you get for your special type of unit, jousting list etc basically get demolished if your heir has a different culture and that's a total loving mess in some places like in france you could be occitan, frankish, caroliginian renaissance mabe basque etc etc
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 13:22
|
|
|
Honestly, I'm pretty surprised we've never gotten a DLC to overhaul Crusades. It's an area of the game that still feels pretty lacking, though that might just be compared to everything else.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 14:32
|
|
|
How were crusades at the beginning of the game? I remember they were really bad, and a patch reworked them to be what we have now (and then they got hosed because it seems like holy orders win them most of the time and results in Teutonic Hispania and other such hilarity).
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 15:00
|
|
|
At release, Crusades were "everyone individually declares holy war for the target duchy". A couple of months after release (before Sword of Islam came out), this was changed to the "Pope declares war for entire target kingdom, winner is based on war score contribution" we have now. (In CK1, Crusades were individual wars for the targeted province. And until it was changed in DV, occupying a province that belonged to a character of another religion would immediately give ownership of the province, leading to silly stuff like the Sheikdom of Prague. Basically, CK1 was poo poo.)
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 15:34
|
|
|
Defending against a Catholic uprising in the loving Faroes, my ruler decides to ask his friend to join the war. His friend is the head of the Varangian Guard, so he can't join, but he decides to send some money. 1377 gold in the bank and he sends... 1. 
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 16:12
|
|
|
I'd say the current problem with popes in CKII is that the papal mechanics are both mostly non-interactive and basically impossible to use without being gamey, so the AI never uses the Pope for anything and it just becomes another unique advantage granted to large player empires. It's not just that the Pope never does anything on his own, it's that the AI never uses him against you the way you can use him against your neighbors.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 16:39
|
|
|
The other half of the problem with crusades on release was that if you were coming from a way out, half your troops would be dead of attrition before you ever got there. It actually led to the demise of my first Irish playthrough because right after my half dead army was wiped out by Saracens, the English attacked me as soon as crusade ended.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 17:02
|
|
|
kingturnip posted:Defending against a Catholic uprising in the loving Faroes, my ruler decides to ask his friend to join the war. Here's what that event choice (friends_rivals_events.txt, 100150) looks like, from the other guy's perspective: code:Ready! Set! Blow! fucked around with this message at 18:06 on May 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
How the gently caress does Conclave work. In an MP game my single vassal demanded to be on the council and had like -100 but was not actually eligible to be on it in any way. Also all my councilors were +80 or higher but absolutely any action I could take besides going AFK and watching gold tick up caused a tyranny hit.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 18:09
|
|
|
Does the pope even do excommunications anymore? I haven't seen one of those in a long time.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 18:42
|
|
|
Grizzwold posted:Does the pope even do excommunications anymore? I haven't seen one of those in a long time. There is a random event where you can choose to extort the church for money, which (maybe always, maybe randomly) gets you excommunicated. But as far as the pope doing it as a character interaction? Never seen it.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 18:50
|
|
|
Grizzwold posted:Does the pope even do excommunications anymore? I haven't seen one of those in a long time.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 18:52
|
|
|
If you border an Empire, is there any reason not to just swear fealty to it and start expanding and grabbing border counties from inside the Empire? I did that for the hell of it as Ironman France, and it's made the game super easy. The only hiccup is the occasional realm peace and you can get rid of that with a favor. I don't think I'll even have to rebel because I'm pretty close to taking over Burgundy and making my own Empire. I also conquered Jerusalem, passed the title onto a family member, and then won the counter jihads for the first time ever because the loving Holy Roman Empire was throwing down stacks of 30,000 troops like it was going out of style.  vassal map  I also have a bonus strong ally in Castille as the result of a plot to take over through marriage that kind of fizzled out. Ghetto Prince fucked around with this message at 20:31 on May 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 20:25
|
|
|
Larry Parrish posted:How the gently caress does Conclave work. In an MP game my single vassal demanded to be on the council and had like -100 but was not actually eligible to be on it in any way. Also all my councilors were +80 or higher but absolutely any action I could take besides going AFK and watching gold tick up caused a tyranny hit. Council members have more complicated thought processes than just "rubber-stamp everything if they like you, reject everything if they hate you". Try actually reading the things that come up, and maybe even mousing over them?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 21:19
|
|
|
Ok, since I finished my Rome restore the borders campaign. My advice? Go loving Catholic, vassalize dat Pope rear end. Or, go Fraticelli, Get the Fraticelli duke-level pope. Excommunicate everyone, acquire Western Europe in like twenty years. I finished just as the Mongols showed up. They ate some of dynasty members who had someone managed to navigate into being steppe hordes (I think some marriage shenanigans were part of this). The joys of having a family house with 700+ people in it 
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2016 02:22
|
|
|
One very simple and effective change would be to make the Pope stop giving away free money, and make people sell favors to him instead at a similarly scaled rate. The much more challenging part is programming the Pope to call in those favors in a sensible way. But that's how I'd approach the issue.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2016 14:08
|
|
|
Grizzwold posted:Does the pope even do excommunications anymore? I haven't seen one of those in a long time. In my first game the Pope excommunicated my Irish Queen I think in some vain attempt to get one of her three brothers onto the throne but all it resulted in was Ireland becoming Cathar (before any of the SoA updates unfortunately  ) and taking over the British Isles for the rest of the game.  But since then I haven't seen a single excommunication.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2016 16:34
|
|
|
I think excommunication was more common pre-SoA just because the changes made in that DLC made it a lot harder to meet the requirements (basically if the Pope has a positive opinion of someone at all, he won't excommunicate them period, unless he's forced to as a vassal).
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2016 16:47
|
|
|
Guildencrantz posted:Honestly I wish antipopes were nerfed a bunch, or the Investiture Controversy fleshed out. Catholicism collapses into heresies every time in the 1066 start because the HRE names an antipope and it stays that way forever. There's no non-military way for that to change and there are no diplomatic consequences to popping a hat on some rando parish priest and naming him the successor of St Peter, whereas historically the Emperor had to back down because his own vassals refused to recognize his fake pope. Sadly you can't do that in-game and MA just plummets barring freak incidents or player intervention. Lowering the RA is supposed to be the intended consequence. The problem is that the AI doesn't plan for that and takes certain actions whenever it meets the preconditions. There is always a Cynical king who likes his bishops more than the Pope somewhere in Western Europe (and the usual fragmentation of HRE ensures plenty of kings).
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2016 16:55
|
|
|
The pope needs some kinda event where he requests that another Christian king fight his wars for him. Backing it with money, threats of excommunication and other poo poo. "Hey Powerful duke of the lovely King I hate, have a claim on the kingdom" or "Join my crusade/depose this anti-pope/Holy-War this dude/defend me from heathens, you'll get [min gold per rank + half yearly income] from me. Or I excommunicate you." And anyone with Free investure should be risking excommunication unless they got something going on; either a high opinion from the pope, good stats or something. Heck, in after the end, the Emperor can already do some of this stuff.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2016 18:46
|
|
|
Deceitful Penguin posted:And anyone with Free investure should be risking excommunication unless they got something going on; either a high opinion from the pope, good stats or something. Free investure should depend on how powerful you are as a kingdom, you can doomstack 20k men then the Pope isn't going to gently caress with you. If you're the king of Burgandy and can maybe pull 10k then you are getting called on your free investure.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2016 20:22
|
|
|
just playing After The End mod as a nomad in the Dakota areas go on the good rear end +5 opinion vision quest agree that Wolf chose me and I gain gregarious, brave, and cruel i love this mod so much. its like going on a Hajj but i didn't have to spend money!
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2016 08:24
|
|
|
Ack, I accidentally allowed elections for the empereror's title. There's no acute danger that some outsider gets it but I would approve any hints to minimize the risk. I'm the emperor of Britannia, king of England, Ireland and Wales (these will go to my son who's not currently going to be the emperor), kings of Scotland, Norway, Finland and Jerusalem are my vassals and everyone but Norway is part of my dynasty.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2016 14:28
|
|
|
So, I just spent the last generations trying to culture flip my heir... only to realize now as the first one flipped that Nomads can't inherit if different culture  It's only the middle of the 10th century, so I'm thinking I'll just bid my time and try to become a child leader and get educated in another court. Is that even doable? If not eeeeeh it means I'll have to restart as the proper culture.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2016 14:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 21:37 |
|
|
StarMinstrel posted:So, I just spent the last generations trying to culture flip my heir... only to realize now as the first one flipped that Nomads can't inherit if different culture As far as I know, apart from using the console, you cannot successfully culture change as a horde. It's very difficult but possible for your heirs to flip culture, but they would all be disinherited and you would get a game over if you had no valid heirs left. Kennel posted:Ack, I accidentally allowed elections for the empereror's title. There's no acute danger that some outsider gets it but I would approve any hints to minimize the risk. I'm the emperor of Britannia, king of England, Ireland and Wales (these will go to my son who's not currently going to be the emperor), kings of Scotland, Norway, Finland and Jerusalem are my vassals and everyone but Norway is part of my dynasty. Elective in an empire where nearly every vassal is of your dynasty obviously makes it next to impossible to lose the empire title, so you are more or less safe. Try to get designate the family member who got England, Ireland and Wales as the next emperor after you inherit, to bring those back under your direct control. Then you can work on switching to primogeniture afterwards.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2016 14:59
|
|
