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Stephen9001 posted:So... if Kevin's been acing up till now... how tough/skilled would he be if he hadn't been holding back? Capable of taking Lowe on one on one? As far as I know...not really. The answers lie in another game(s), of course
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May 1, 2016 16:19
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Stephen9001 posted:So... if Kevin's been acing up till now... how tough/skilled would he be if he hadn't been holding back? Capable of taking Lowe on one on one? Kevin hasn't really been acting, I think. He lied about being the Grail Knights' lowly intern, but otherwise he's never told a lie when he could be cagey with the truth instead. As for Loewe, after his fight on top of the Axis Pillar he mentioned that lady Knight who was one of the toughest opponents he's ever faced. I don't think Kevin would win against him, but he could bloody Loewe's nose at least.
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May 1, 2016 16:21
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i wouldn't get too into power levels and such because even the baddest dude can get turned into salt by a nation destroying calamity, but the dominion are probably like enforcer-tier.
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May 1, 2016 16:29
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Stephen9001 posted:So... if Kevin's been acting up till now... how tough/skilled would he be if he hadn't been holding back? Capable of taking Lowe on one on one? We'll probably find out next year.
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May 1, 2016 16:30
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Cake Attack posted:we almost went the entire LP without anyone making jokes about weissmann being salty but then someone ruined it last update. i'm very disappointed in you You can't ruin this moment  Ding-dong! The warlock is dead. Hail! Hail! The warlock is dead. I'm glad to see nobody at Ouroborous liked Weissmann either. Now, if only Kevin could have swiped that evil staff while he was there.
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May 1, 2016 16:32
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Really Pants posted:Kevin hasn't really been acting, I think. He lied about being the Grail Knights' lowly intern, but otherwise he's never told a lie when he could be cagey with the truth instead. As for Loewe, after his fight on top of the Axis Pillar he mentioned that lady Knight who was one of the toughest opponents he's ever faced. I don't think Kevin would win against him, but he could bloody Loewe's nose at least. So, essentially, you're saying taking Weismann one on one would be easier than taking Lowe one on one (a completely fair opinion) and that Kevin could probably do better fighting solo than if you actually tried that in game. Makes enough sense. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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May 1, 2016 17:45
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Stephen9001 posted:So, essentially, you're saying taking Weismann one on one would be easier than taking Lowe one on one (a completely fair opinion) and that Kevin could probably do better fighting solo than if you actually tried that in game. Makes enough sense. Loewe did say that few, including the Anguis, can match him in battle. Some Numbers fucked around with this message at 17:48 on May 1, 2016 |
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May 1, 2016 17:46
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Some Numbers posted:Loewe did say that no one, including the Anguis and the Grandmaster, can match him in battle. That is true, I just wasn't sure how much he was blowing his own trumpet there. I mean yeah, he was obviously amazing and stuff, but video game logicTM has taught me that those higher up dudes would be harder fights than even the most impressive and boastful of their subordinates. But yeah, considering Loewe's sheer speed... I totally concede the point. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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May 1, 2016 17:49
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I love Merciless Savior. Based on what I've heard from the Ys series, the TitS games, Cold Steel, and a certain blue song from a certain blue game I can safely say Falcom has got the whole "Awesome Final Boss Music" thing on lockdown for the foreseeable future. Weissmann's demise is just too satisfying, and of course there's Kevin. Just Kevin 
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May 1, 2016 17:52
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Stephen9001 posted:So... if Kevin's been acting up till now... how tough/skilled would he be if he hadn't been holding back? Capable of taking Lowe on one on one? While I don't know for sure, Loewe did mention there was this other Grail Knight that matched him, so it's possible. Kevin also seems pretty confident that he could have taken Angel Weissman on his own and story-wise, it looks like Loewe couldn't have. On the other hand, that would make that one scene in Ruan where he's worried about being discovered by Bleublanc and Loewe really weird, unless he really didn't want to be identified.
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May 1, 2016 17:53
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Death Priest posted:While I don't know for sure, Loewe did mention there was this other Grail Knight that matched him, so it's possible. Kevin also seems pretty confident that he could have taken Angel Weissman on his own and story-wise, it looks like Loewe couldn't have. He might not have been able to take Loewe and Bleublanc by himself at the same time? Also, I'm not convinced Loewe couldn't have taken Angel Weissman.
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May 1, 2016 18:09
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quote:Like being hit in the FACE with raw heresy... I gotta admit, I really like that line for some reason. Kevin's reveal WAS a bit surprising when I got to it, but drat was it effective. Weissman sure got what was coming for him, but I wasn't quite expecting something like THAT. Also add my voice in agreement that "Merciless Savior" is one of the best tracks of the game. drat it sounds so cool. The Enforcers might top it in personal preference, but it's certainly up there.
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May 1, 2016 18:19
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I really like that all the Society tracks (The Enforcers, The Glorious, Fateful Encounter and The Merciless Savior) all share a similar melody. It really ties the whole thing together well.
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May 1, 2016 18:22
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drat, Kevin, you don't gently caress around. I mean, it's Weissmann so I'm not too upset you used an artifact that ruined an entire nation just to kill his sorry rear end, but still, 
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May 1, 2016 21:48
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I believe it's been specifically noted that Loewe's the most powerful combat character in Sky. Staff Cassius is a little below him. Angel Weissmann is annoying if you brought in a caster team, because his art defense is stupidly high compared to his physical defense. Even then, it's more slow than dangerous, and he doesn't have too many threatening tricks. Ruined World Noaba would be a lot more threatening if it were a bit faster, but everyone gets at least one turn to move out of it. (Maybe not if you don't have an Action quartz and just S-Broke?)
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May 1, 2016 21:51
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AradoBalanga posted:drat, Kevin, you don't gently caress around. I mean, it's Weissmann so I'm not too upset you used an artifact that ruined an entire nation just to kill his sorry rear end, but still, The Church does not gently caress around. Speaking of, there's a line last update that has me scratching my head: "Like being hit in the FACE with raw heresy" How can the Aureole (even when wielded by a godless heathen like W) be heretical? This isn't a good artifact getting desecrated, it is, explicitly and by design, a neutral artifact that doesn't carry any inherent moral judgement. Unless, of course, the Church knows something we don't. Wild, completely unfounded speculation for the fun of it: 1) Aidios is evil (how cliché) but the Church is not and their endgame is replacing her with someone not evil. An hostile takeover, if you will. or 2) The seven artifacts are not, in fact, gifts from the Goddess. (or 3) I'm overthinking poo poo. Overthinking is fun though) There are problems with both options (see point 3), of course, so we'll just have to wait further games in the series.
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May 1, 2016 22:42
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I took it to mean that someone fusing with something from god is kinda heretical.
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May 1, 2016 22:50
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Perhaps the line about "raw heresy" is more about rogue and uncontrolled power? The Aureole is so potent that the protagonists can palpably feel its effects, and in addition it isn't on anyone's side. I'm guessing that Kevin and by extension the church view it as analogous to a nuclear warhead, when the Gralsritter are basically a more militant take on what the IAEA does. Or maybe just I'm reading a bit into things. (After all there are a number of spin-offs that continue this metanarrative.)
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May 1, 2016 22:50
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I love the reveal of Inquisitor Kevin Graham, Ordo Hereticus.
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May 1, 2016 22:58
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AradoBalanga posted:drat, Kevin, you don't gently caress around. I mean, it's Weissmann so I'm not too upset you used an artifact that ruined an entire nation just to kill his sorry rear end, but still, I would like to mention the Pillar of Salt isn't an artifact. Artifacts are basically oldass powerful orbments that no one really understands how they work. I mean, it could be one, but so far it's fairly unlikely. Also, I'm sure no one will understand this, but Campanella is such a copycat. He must have really liked Weissman's execution. I can't blame him though, killing Weissman with a stake made from the Pillar of Salt is like an EMT being run over by an ambulance. As for power levels, Kevin definitely can't take on Loewe alone, or at least not his SC self. That Rufina lady could and did, but Kevin is nowhere the level of badass that Rufina was. Just so you guys understand, Loewe is tied in the second place for the most powerful person in the series with another Enforcer. There are some people who can get close enough to their level, like that Rufina lady and Cassius bright and a certain dad from Cold Steel, but so far, they seem to rule the second place. As for the first place, well...let's not talk about that. By the way, am I being too *wink wink* *nudge nudge* with my posts? It's so hard to talk about the series in general without accidentally spoiling or implying something. I can stop if you want.
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May 1, 2016 23:19
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Omobono posted:The Church does not gently caress around. Weissman used to be a Septian priest, remember? The "raw heresy" isn't so much the Aureole itself as it is the apostate using the Goddess's treasure for his evil scheme.
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May 1, 2016 23:20
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What exactly happened at the second phase with the worm there? It sounded to me like the Aureole was at that point was going "enough."
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May 1, 2016 23:58
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BearDrivingTruck posted:Weissman used to be a Septian priest, remember? The "raw heresy" isn't so much the Aureole itself as it is the apostate using the Goddess's treasure for his evil scheme. Tallgeese posted:What exactly happened at the second phase with the worm there?
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May 2, 2016 00:11
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Did we overload the Aureole somehow? Even with the final dungeon collapsing around us that still doesn't seem too likely. Otherwise Celeste would just have gone with "punch it a whole lot" as a solution to the whole Eden Machine problem.
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May 2, 2016 00:23
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Glazius posted:Did we overload the Aureole somehow? Even with the final dungeon collapsing around us that still doesn't seem too likely. Otherwise Celeste would just have gone with "punch it a whole lot" as a solution to the whole Eden Machine problem. If she tried that it'd probably put up that shield Weissmann used and/or instantly kill her.
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May 2, 2016 00:42
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Maybe we gave the Aureole an identity crisis? Remember, the original reason the Aureole fought back against being imprisoned was because it wasn't able to comprehend something so meta as "Giving everyone what they want causes their lives to crumble and destroys society." It wants to make people happy, and giving them what they want makes them happy in the short-term, so it tried to keep doing that. Weissman comes in and it gives him what he wants, incredible power. It even grants him more power when that's not enough. But Weissman wants to kill all of us, and probably a whole hell of a lot more people as well. Now the Aureole actually has to confront what its doing. It's doing its job by granting weissman power, but to keep doing that is going to gently caress over everyone. So maybe, for the first time, it actually realizes that just giving everyone what they want can be a bad thing? And that the best thing to do, at this moment, to give the most happiness to as many people as possible... is to just go away. Or, if you assume the Aureole can't have quite that much consciousness... Originally the plan to seal the Aureole was against the wishes of the people living on Liberl Ark. Those caught up in it's fantasies didn't want to lose that, and those manipulating that poo poo for their own ends didn't want to lose their cash cow. So the Aureole attempted to prolong its own existence to abide by those people's wishes. Those people are all gone now, and the only person that actually wants the Aureole to stay is Weissman. Remember, first it was locked away from time and space, forever frozen trying to grant those people's wishes. Then it is released from the first seal, and the only people able to interact with it through gospels... are Ouroborous. Who want it to come back. So it abides by their wishes. By the point of the final boss battle, we've cleaned up pretty much everyone except for Weissman, who maintains the last link to the Aureole, which he uses to fuse with it. So here the Aureole has a personal connection with the one person that wants it to remain. It's doing everything he asks, and when that doesn't prove to be enough and he merges further with it... he blinks. Remember, the Aureole is a machine designed solely to fulfill the desires of others. And by fusing with it, Weissman is slowly losing himself and becoming more and more like it. Even that power is not enough, he still loses, and at that point he's on the precipice. His options are to give himself up and become one completely with the Aureole, or to push it away. And with that rejection, the last person who wishes the Aureole to remain tells it to leave. And so it does, it goes away. For good. Those are my two theories. 
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May 2, 2016 00:46
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I don't think there's anything concrete to indicate that the Aureole was destroyed or anything like that. Perhaps by being unable to fulfill Weissmann's wish, or perhaps responding to the wishes of the party, it simply disappears into whatever inaccessible dimensional pocket it chooses. Warping dimensions seems to be within the thing's capabilities after all.
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May 2, 2016 01:13
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I disagree. If the Aureole was able to warp dimensions, it should never have been able to be caught in a trap that flings it to a different dimension. It could have just warped itself back after the first seal was broken and it was no longer trapped in time.
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May 2, 2016 03:02
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Huh, I never realized that Merciless Savior uses parts of "The Enforcers"...but then again the music in this game gets so complicated sometimes.... That being said, it's probably going to be a long time from now, but it'd be nice if we got the "full story" about the pillar of salt. (Minor spoilers ahead) I know there is some "dialogue" about it in the later games....but to my knowledge, there isn't a full explanation for it yet Angel Weissman's ADF isn't too high, the book says he has 900 DEF and 1000 ADF, though yes I believe that normal enemies have DEF>ADF, so maybe it does feel that way....but it's hard to tell. (The book only has one entry, and I have this suspicious feeling that the two forms might have different stats...or might not) I'm more concerned with why the Shining Ring disappeared, rather than where, so to speak MisawaMahoKodomo fucked around with this message at 04:26 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 04:22
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It uses substantial melody portions from at least "The Enforcers", "Tetracylic Tower", and I think both Reverie themes "Ancient Makes/Those Who Guard the Greatest Treasure". Quite possibly more.
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May 2, 2016 04:26
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Hmm, I probably need to listen to the enforcers more, though it's not really one of the tracks I like very much or anything. AFAIK there are four recurring themes or so Whereabouts of Light (not sure if it's the whole thing, or otherwise) Silver Will (As far as I know, it's only used in Hamel and Truth Behind the Tragedy) Enforcers (Fateful Confrontation, Glorious) Trails in the Sky (there are two parts, Trails in the Sky itself contains part of Whereabouts of Light as well) This one probably has too many to count, it's like, everywhere...but to be honest sometimes I forget which song is which when listening (similar phenomenon happened in the past where you have two recurring songs and can't immediately tell one from the other) There's also one more recurring theme, though a bit minor, it's part of "Looking up at the sky" Trails in the Sky is probably my favorite track overall, even though with all these good tracks. Mostly because it has pretty smooth flow throughout (as good as, say, Hollow Light of the Sealed Land, or Merciless Savior, they have parts which I feel "break" the flow of the song) Major Rambling ahead (depends if I get another post to ramble on) Sometimes, I wonder if I would have enjoyed the game(s) more if I wasn't spoiled of like, half or more of the major plot points already. Oh well. My hearing sense isn't perfect really, but from what I can tell Tetracyclic Tower: At first, when I heard this, I was rather reminded of Mardek, but eh. This track uses Trails in the Sky. Disappearing Star: Uses Whereabouts of Light Black Orbment/Hollow Light of the Sealed Land/Ancient Makes/Those Who Guard What Matters Most: Trails in the Sky Release from the Spell: Silver Will + Trails in the Sky Confession/Dancing With the Wind: Whereabouts of Light I skipped a bunch of the SC OST because they were too difficult for me Gospel Project: I believe this is Whereabouts of Light, but it's kind of hard to tell Hamel: Silver Will Fate of the Fairies/Hidden True Form/The Greatest Treasure Released/In the Favour of the Goddess: Trails in the Sky Liber Ark/Aiming for the Future/Axis Pillar/Gravestone Struck by Lightning/Outskirts of Evolution/Merciless Savior: Trails in the Sky In practice, knowing the lyrics to the vocal version of Trails in the Sky makes it a little easier to identify....but only a little. I suspect there are a lot more subtle ones hidden in various tracks, and some tracks have multiple themes as well. MisawaMahoKodomo fucked around with this message at 05:14 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 04:31
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I know the LP isn't technically over yet but is there already someone planning to do a Cold Steel LP any time soon? E: Honestly my favorite part of Merciless Savior is the violin portion in the middle, it just flows so drat well. Super Jay Mann fucked around with this message at 04:56 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 04:49
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The Aureole didn't actually disappear. Pay close attention to the gif of Campanella fingersnapping Salt-Weissmann to very tiny pieces.
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May 2, 2016 06:01
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Erpy posted:The Aureole didn't actually disappear. Pay close attention to the gif of Campanella fingersnapping Salt-Weissmann to very tiny pieces.  God drat it. Did it just move from the salt statue to the staff? The staff that Campanella retrieved? Please tell me the staff blinked like that before this scene and that it's NOT an Aureole butterfly net. That can't be good. That's double-plus-ungood.
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May 2, 2016 06:25
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I don't buy it. Kevin clearly realized what Campanella was doing and then waved it off with the equivalent of "not my problem." I'd like to imagine that the fate of the Aureole is exactly his problem.
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May 2, 2016 06:37
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It is interesting that Kevin's "!" of surprise doesn't start until the staff begins to blink...
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May 2, 2016 06:55
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He's not saying it's not his problem, he's saying it's not his jurisdiction. He mentioned before that the Aureole was a side mission and executing Douche W. McHeretic was his real mission and he accomplished that. Apparantly, 3rd contains a scene where Campanella makes his report on the events in this game where this is confirmed. The gold flash was just a little piece of foreshadowing. From what I've heard, Weissmann's surprise at the Aureole "disappearance" was genuine. The staff did its thing without his knowledge. Weissmann's staff, given by the grandmaster, was apparantly, among other things, a safeguard against him taking things into his own hands. That and having Loewe and his barrier-shattering sword around. Seems like Cassius isn't the only one capable of outgambitting Weissmann.
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May 2, 2016 07:38
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:I took it to mean that someone fusing with something from god is kinda heretical. This is pretty much the exact intent. Weissmann has used one of the Seven Treasures of Aidios to mutate his own body in order to bring harm to others. It'd basically be like eating the Shroud of Turin or jamming a verified piece of the True Cross into your forehead in order to gain real ultimate power. He would have to be dribbling a baby like a basketball to be any more sinful at that moment. (He'd do it, don't you doubt it) Anyway, loc-chat, on the subject of Kevin: So. This, right here, is the other reason I made his "accent" mostly capital-c Comedy. While the accent doesn't completely disappear in Japanese, his tone in this scene is markedly different from every other appearance in the game and there is a definite shift in how he speaks. If humor remains, it is the bitter humor of the gallows, and mostly, he's just interested in killing Weissmann and fulfilling his mission. There is still the obvious implication that the jokester we've seen for most of the game isn't who he is at all, and we've perhaps seen this peek out a little bit previously. The comedy is mostly an act - remember how, in real life, many comedians feel the need to affect Kansai dialect anyway? So yes, Kevin is partly a funny-man in English because it better sets up the tone shift here at the end. Hopefully the XSEED team can carry this forward into 3rd! Stephen9001 posted:So... if Kevin's been acting up till now... how tough/skilled would he be if he hadn't been holding back? Capable of taking Lowe on one on one? Not quite one on one, like Atou Ren said. He's darn strong, and for reasons that haven't been fully explained yet, but Loewe was just really goddamn good with a sword, and it doesn't help that his goddamn sword was literally forged via the Laws of Cheating. Please Look Forward To Sky 3rd, is what I'm saying. Atou Ren posted:I would like to mention the Pillar of Salt isn't an artifact. Artifacts are basically oldass powerful orbments that no one really understands how they work. I mean, it could be one, but so far it's fairly unlikely. So this is the result of a couple different things. Firstly, yes, the Pillar of Salt is referred to as a 呪具 - a "magical tool" (and with, like many things related to "magic" in Japanese, something of an implication of sinisterness - 呪 is a kanji rarely associated with butterflies and happiness). In other games, it's a term used to describe things like wizard casting implements. Robin actually got this right in his own initial translation that he handed to me, and I then decided to run with small-a artifact because I was at least a little more familiar with the thing's place in the narrative. The "small-a artifact" idea is the sticky wicket, though. In my draft as submitted to XSEED, I made a distinction between capital-A, proper-noun Artifacts - the advanced Zemurian orbal devices - and general, uncapitalized artifacts, which would be like a bowl from the Middle Ages or something. Especially with things like the museum in Grancel, this struck me as an important distinction to make, that in this world's archaeology there were basically "artifacts and Artifacts". Perhaps slightly confusing in speech (but then, there's tons of cases like that in real speech, so ++verisimilitude) but enough of a distinction in text to be clear. Unfortunately, either Jess & the other folks at XSEED disagreed with that idea, or they just didn't pick up on it - all of the capital-A Artifact references were reverted to lowercase in the script as published. So a distinction that was present in my draft didn't make it into the published product. I'm still not quite sure how else I would handle 呪具, though; it is an old artifact in that lower-case sense, and I feel like "magical tool" isn't the best translation of the Japanese in any event, particularly for the Pillar. Yeah, I guess it's a "tool" - in the same way an atomic weapon is a tool. quote:Also, I'm sure no one will understand this, but Campanella is such a copycat. He must have really liked Weissman's execution. I can't blame him though, killing Weissman with a stake made from the Pillar of Salt is like an EMT being run over by an ambulance. As Campanella has been put on this gay, happy earth to troll the hell out of people, I'm sure that Weissmann's manner of death was the highlight of his year.
SpaceDrake fucked around with this message at 07:46 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 07:44
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Super Jay Mann posted:I know the LP isn't technically over yet but is there already someone planning to do a Cold Steel LP any time soon? I'm still working out the kinks of video editing, but yeah I'm technically planning to LP the game sometime this year. Hopefully soon.
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May 2, 2016 07:54
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SpaceDrake posted:I'm still not quite sure how else I would handle 呪具, though; it is an old artifact in that lower-case sense, and I feel like "magical tool" isn't the best translation of the Japanese in any event, particularly for the Pillar. Yeah, I guess it's a "tool" - in the same way an atomic weapon is a tool. Would "relic" not encompass quite the same meaning?
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May 2, 2016 08:03
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