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Rotten Red Rod posted:I'm playing through embered all the time (PS4) and I'm kind of missing DS2's PvP. Invaders seemed to be a lot more frequent in that game, and there were more options - the bell keepers and rat king arenas in particular I spent hours and hours in. In this one, I spent some time running as a watchdog, but I seem to have hit a certain level threashold and I can't get summoned for it anymore. Other than that, I rarely get invaded (maybe happened once or twice), and I've been summoned as a blue phantom all of 3 times despite always having it on - which, admittedly, is better than in DS2, where it never worked for me at all. I don't understand how you're having issues. You can yet uncracked as low as level 1 if you want. It's not hard to get and it's literally in the first level (you get a key later) Are you summoning people? One of the things that is agreed on is that invasions prioritize people with cooperators. And yes you likely out leveled areas. Unlike previous souls games, invaders only cap out at 20 levels above their level for potential targets. Watchdogs is great around 30 and Aldrich is great around 60. I get summoned every 15 seconds if I join Aldrich to gently caress up people and I have a character who stays at 60. Staying at level is easier than staying at soul memory from ds2 which was impossible for months. I don't understand how you can say more options when Aldrich and watchdogs are like bell and rats. And you get mound makers for more pvp.
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May 3, 2016 16:10
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Weird Sandwich posted:The switch to avoid PVP in this game is to not ember, since the extra little bit of health doesn't make a huge difference. And I wouldn't call a 30% HP boost "little". quote:If you want to summon, then you should have the numbers advantage anyway. Mostly I just Alt-F4.
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May 3, 2016 16:11
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I think the biggest reason that Blue Sentinels/Darkmoon aren't working isn't due to the netcode per se(although that might be a factor) it's just the fact that nobody's invading due to this.Monomythian posted:Sounds like you have it rough compared to those invaders. They should totally be penalised for invasions, well I mean, on top of.... I think of it as passively deincentivised pvp. Make it so unfair and the rewards so worthless that people will just naturally stop wanting to do it. But in that case, it basically makes all but 1 of the covenants completely loving worthless because they all rely on invasions to exist in the first place.
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May 3, 2016 16:15
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Ineffiable posted:I don't understand how you can say more options when Aldrich and watchdogs are like bell and rats. And you get mound makers for more pvp. I haven't quite hit Aldrich yet so glad to hear that's coming. And I liked watchdogs, but I was lamenting how unique rats and bell keepers were. Especially rats, I loved being the trapmaster in my own little dungeon.
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May 3, 2016 16:16
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Doctor Spaceman posted:You can't avoid it completely though, given the way boss kills work. lol
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May 3, 2016 16:16
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Yeah I've put down white signs as a purple for the hell of it a few times and it has invariably been gank squads. I guess maybe a red sign from somebody (In theory) actually prepared for PvP managed to survive them so they wanted an easier shot  I totally understand why someone who can hurt the host isn't let into a boss fight. That would just be loving terrible no matter the potential rewards. But if they could help with boss fights, even if that disabled their friendly fire, there isn't anything to keep them interesting either (Okay I'll just switch to purple instead of sunbro for boss doors). Complete out of my rear end ideas that will never be implemented here. Make Purple bro white soapstone signs have some kind of super obvious visual effect to Unembered players. Grabbing a purple sign Embers you up, but you can't black crystal them out. Wishful thinking theories. Even if such a thing happened people would just use them as a free ember and then "Connection error from host world". Back on "As implemented", every time I see "please kill 3 loving phantoms. Or the host" even when I'm not going in for blood, gently caress it, let's try for some murder, at least one of their phantom commando squad is gonna backstab me sooner rather than later. Jastiger posted:I think invading is dumb. I literally died once and then embered at the bonfire and IMMEDIATELY was invaded. I ended up killing him but for what? I gained nothing and he risked nothing, but I risked my ember and my souls. If you kill an invader you should absolutely get either an ember or their souls or something. There should be some kind of reward for winning and there should be a penalty for them losing. I'm okay with the concept of invasions (It can only happen while in Altered Beast manly mode) but I'll say that getting invaded as soon as you get embered up from killing a boss is just plain silly. Like okay yeah put you on the list immediately if you pop an Ember, you voluntarily did that poo poo for a power up. But being invaded immediately after a boss fight is just a bit of a gently caress you. "Yes! I finally beat *Insert boss here* solo after however many tries! Now to...Come on really?" Like, even if you could make the run back in your sleep. Even if you win. That poo poo is just frustrating.
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May 3, 2016 16:16
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Still amazed that Darkmoon can't use the red orb to invade sinners or people who have pale tongues in their inventory. Like, how did they not consider that possibility. 
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May 3, 2016 16:17
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Deified Data posted:BTW I'm hearing a lot of talk about how blue sentinels aren't working properly but in my time invading as a red they were an almost constant presence - at least 1 every couple invasions. I can't speak for how long it takes to get summoned as one but my hosts didn't seem to be having an issue getting them. People just need to invade more so the blues can get more action. Blues are in a weird spot. It works for some people. It works fantastically for me. I get summoned as a blue at least once or twice per hour on my Darkmoon character while I'm just running around doing NG+ stuff. And like you say, they're all over the place when you get invaded or when you're the invader. It's just that some people (I really have no idea what percentage) just never, ever get summoned as a Sentinel/Darkmoon, even if the other auto-summon covenants work for them. It's a weird situation. I'm glad I'm one of the ones who can get summoned, but I have no idea why it works for me and not so many others. Section Z posted:I'm okay with the concept of invasions (It can only happen while in Altered Beast manly mode) but I'll say that getting invaded as soon as you get embered up from killing a boss is just plain silly. Like okay yeah put you on the list immediately if you pop an Ember, you voluntarily did that poo poo for a power up. Getting invaded immediately after a boss has got to be the worst possible luck, given how rare I've found solo invasions to be in DS3. Unless that boss was Pontiff. You're definitely getting invaded after Pontiff.
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May 3, 2016 16:19
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poptart_fairy posted:Still amazed that Darkmoon can't use the red orb to invade sinners or people who have pale tongues in their inventory. Like, how did they not consider that possibility. Hey man, I got all my tonuges from killing Darkwraiths, I swear. Literally true in my case but I still agree Darkmoon should have some more proactive options if you took the effort and time to go from Bluecop to Supercop. "Oh my god I hate all these loving Darkmoon invasions  ""Have you considered just not embering  "
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May 3, 2016 16:20
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Doctor Spaceman posted:That makes it easier, but it doesn't make it fun. A "never invade me" switch would functionally kill off invading as a concept, which is why I hope it's never implemented. Incidentally, have you played Bloodborne? Even at its peak popularity, you could pretty comfortably expect you'll never be invaded in Bloodborne. The conditions for being invaded are so specific that it basically never happens except in two specific areas, one of which is optional--and even in those areas, you can kill a non-respawning NPC who's fairly close to the start of the area and turn off invasions there forever.
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May 3, 2016 16:22
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Sultan Tarquin posted:I think the biggest reason that Blue Sentinels/Darkmoon aren't working isn't due to the netcode per se(although that might be a factor) it's just the fact that nobody's invading due to this. That list doesn't include that the invader's bloodstain goes wherever they died in the other world. That said I have always gotten lots of Blue Sentinel invades up to level ~70 or so. Cathedral of the Deep especially I often have to take off the sigil if I want to get anywhere in the level.
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May 3, 2016 16:22
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Monomythian posted:Sounds like you have it rough compared to those invaders. They should totally be penalised for invasions, well I mean, on top of.... Well, yeah. I'm trying to kill the boss of a dying world, I don't want to have to deal with some pvp optimized dick hole whose sole existence is to ruin my progress with no risk to themselves. If I lose, I lose my souls and an ember. If they lose..they just Crack another orb. I just feel like there should be a slight risk or cost to invade and a happy reward for me for successfully fending off a dick head.
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May 3, 2016 16:23
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Jastiger posted:Well, yeah. I'm trying to kill the boss of a dying world, I don't want to have to deal with some pvp optimized dick hole whose sole existence is to ruin my progress with no risk to themselves. If I lose, I lose my souls and an ember. If they lose..they just Crack another orb. I just feel like there should be a slight risk or cost to invade and a happy reward for me for successfully fending off a dick head. Invaders also drop their souls in their own world if they lose, at the spot where they died in your world.
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May 3, 2016 16:23
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Harrow posted:A "never invade me" switch would functionally kill off invading as a concept, which is why I hope it's never implemented. I didn't mind the Bellbros / Ratbros in DS2 either, because that's what those areas were for.
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May 3, 2016 16:25
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Jastiger posted:Well, yeah. I'm trying to kill the boss of a dying world, I don't want to have to deal with some pvp optimized dick hole whose sole existence is to ruin my progress with no risk to themselves. If I lose, I lose my souls and an ember. If they lose..they just Crack another orb. I just feel like there should be a slight risk or cost to invade and a happy reward for me for successfully fending off a dick head. Play offline
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May 3, 2016 16:29
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From what i've gathered, the reason bluecops are summoned so rarely are due to two things: There are less invaders than there are bluecops. The reason for this is that people dont want to invade into a world where the host has three level-adjusted havelmonsters as bodyguards on to of 30% more hp and double estus. The second reason is that there is very little reason to wear the way of the blue insignia. Why switch when you can simply summon two phantoms from the many signs scattered everywhere.
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May 3, 2016 16:32
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Harrow posted:It's in the Catacombs somewhere. If you see bonewheel skeletons, it's near them. Ahh yes, I saw the bone wheels and I promptly went the other way because gently caress them.
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May 3, 2016 16:33
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BombiTheZombie posted:From what i've gathered, the reason bluecops are summoned so rarely are due to two things: There are less invaders than there are bluecops. The reason for this is that people dont want to invade into a world where the host has three level-adjusted havelmonsters as bodyguards on to of 30% more hp and double estus. I'm not sure that entirely explains why some people (like me) get regular summons as a bluecop and others, at the same level and weapon upgrade level, get nothing at all, no matter how they fiddle with their settings or forward their ports. Scarcity is one thing, but if one group of people is consistently getting summoned and another is consistently not getting summoned, something else is going on, too. lite_sleepr posted:Ahh yes, I saw the bone wheels and I promptly went the other way because gently caress them. They're way less threatening than they used to be. Players got faster and more agile and the bonewheels didn't.
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May 3, 2016 16:33
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BombiTheZombie posted:From what i've gathered, the reason bluecops are summoned so rarely are due to two things: There are less invaders than there are bluecops. The reason for this is that people dont want to invade into a world where the host has three level-adjusted havelmonsters as bodyguards on to of 30% more hp and double estus. Jastiger posted:If they lose..they just Crack another orb. I just feel like there should be a slight risk or cost to invade and a happy reward for me for successfully fending off a dick head.
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May 3, 2016 16:35
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The invasion mechanics are so heavily stacked in favor of the host that seeing people continue to complain about invasions just boggles my mind.
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May 3, 2016 16:38
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Harrow posted:Invaders also drop their souls in their own world if they lose, at the spot where they died in your world. Do they lose an ember?
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May 3, 2016 16:38
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Doctor Spaceman posted:You can't avoid it completely though, given the way boss kills work. I didn't consider the forced embering after a boss battle, that's a good point. However, if you die from an invasion after defeating a boss, you're essentially only losing a 'free' ember, and embers are far easier to obtain in this game than the previous games anyway. And yes, the 30% HP boost can be substantial, but that's all a part of balancing risk; 'is that health boost worth the chance of invasion?'. It adds an element of decision-making that has been present with the series since the beginning.
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May 3, 2016 16:38
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Threep posted:It's easy to just assume this is the problem but some people get summoned basically non-stop so no, there's some broken prioritizing making some people get all the available summons. Something is definitely off about the summon system, some of my character get summoned constantly while some dont get any. Same reinforcement level and soul level, but a huge difference in summon frequency. Its a combo of my earlier observations and network fuckery.
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May 3, 2016 16:42
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Tykero posted:The invasion mechanics are so heavily stacked in favor of the host that seeing people continue to complain about invasions just boggles my mind. It's not a matter of difficulty, I just don't enjoy them.
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May 3, 2016 16:47
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Your reward for killing an invader is to be able to keep your entourage of phantoms holding your hand through the game. You don't deserve an additional reward. The invader is there to makes things a little harder for you when you choose to make the game way, way easier. If you get invaded after killing a boss you're an outlier and a bit unlucky. Fortunately, you literally just lit a bonfire by killing that boss so you don't have to walk very far to get your souls if you didn't mange to win against somebody with half the healing and less max health than you who can't summon in an infinite train of defenders to assist them. Doctor Spaceman posted:It's not a matter of difficulty, I just don't enjoy them. Then let your phantoms paste the invader or run to the fog door. If you don't at least find the chase exciting I don't know what to tell you other than maybe you should just put up with something you don't like that takes all of five minutes instead of chumping out. You might even find that you enjoy the mechanic if you don't give up immediately after failing at it a few times. Tykero fucked around with this message at 16:55 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 16:49
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Jastiger posted:Well, yeah. I'm trying to kill the boss of a dying world, I don't want to have to deal with some pvp optimized dick hole whose sole existence is to ruin my progress with no risk to themselves. If I lose, I lose my souls and an ember. If they lose..they just Crack another orb. I just feel like there should be a slight risk or cost to invade and a happy reward for me for successfully fending off a dick head. You're next. 
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May 3, 2016 16:50
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there are multiple options if you dont want to deal with invaders summon two or more dudes and have them handle it dont ember up play offline if these options don't do it for you, you can also just not play dark souls, a series known for having other people invade your game to ruin your fun
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May 3, 2016 16:53
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Tykero posted:Your reward for killing an invader is to be able to keep your entourage of phantoms holding your hand through the game. This seems disingenuous, since invaders can and often do hit solo players as well. I like to stay Embered just for the health boost, personally. I also got invaded on a regular basis, though I splattered most of them and went on my way.
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May 3, 2016 16:53
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BombiTheZombie posted:Something is definitely off about the summon system, some of my character get summoned constantly while some dont get any. Same reinforcement level and soul level, but a huge difference in summon frequency. Considering I instantly invade with a red orb but sit in the same place for an hour trying to invade as a watchdog, something is hosed.
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May 3, 2016 16:53
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Rotten Red Rod posted:I haven't quite hit Aldrich yet so glad to hear that's coming. And I liked watchdogs, but I was lamenting how unique rats and bell keepers were. Especially rats, I loved being the trapmaster in my own little dungeon. Rats I'll give you is unique but watchdogs is way better than bell bros. Bigger area, enemies can be a threat and people have to mandatory go through it. Twice.
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May 3, 2016 16:53
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Jastiger posted:Well, yeah. I'm trying to kill the boss of a dying world, I don't want to have to deal with some pvp optimized dick hole whose sole existence is to ruin my progress with no risk to themselves. If I lose, I lose my souls and an ember. If they lose..they just Crack another orb. I just feel like there should be a slight risk or cost to invade and a happy reward for me for successfully fending off a dick head. You'll basically never get invaded if you don't summon. Besides, if you keep your gear upgraded to competent levels, you can probably just... kill them. You've got 30% more HP and double the healing items. They can't do anything you can't, and worst-case scenario you can always just escape through the boss fog. Also, Way of Blue, summons, Giant Seeds, learning how to fight worth a drat, etc. You can even use your own Red Orbs or a purple summon sign to practice PVP with no risk yourself. Kite Pride Worldwide fucked around with this message at 16:58 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 16:54
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Harrow posted:They're way less threatening than they used to be. Players got faster and more agile and the bonewheels didn't. I'm mixed on them because while I can smack them to death in two hits of a +2 flamberge, they are also smart enough to not smash into walls anymore so I don't get the satisfaction of hitting them while they are down. Normal bonewheels are a relief to me though, after dealing with ones glitched to be invincible lite_sleepr posted:Ahh yes, I saw the bone wheels and I promptly went the other way because gently caress them. If you are completely positively, absolutely, cripplingly afraid of Mister Skeleton. This spoiler has one weird trick that will basically make the entire catacombs a loving non issue Executioner Greatsword fucks up Warden Skeletons if you so much as brush them with an R1
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May 3, 2016 16:55
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Jastiger posted:Well, yeah. I'm trying to kill the boss of a dying world, I don't want to have to deal with some pvp optimized dick hole whose sole existence is to ruin my progress with no risk to themselves. If I lose, I lose my souls and an ember. If they lose..they just Crack another orb. I just feel like there should be a slight risk or cost to invade and a happy reward for me for successfully fending off a dick head. summon gank squads, you baby
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May 3, 2016 16:55
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Jastiger posted:Well, yeah. I'm trying to kill the boss of a dying world, I don't want to have to deal with some pvp optimized dick hole whose sole existence is to ruin my progress with no risk to themselves. If I lose, I lose my souls and an ember. If they lose..they just Crack another orb. I just feel like there should be a slight risk or cost to invade and a happy reward for me for successfully fending off a dick head. Play offline or don't ember. Jeez.
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May 3, 2016 16:56
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Everyone who continually lists a host's advantages misses an extremely significant invader advantage. The invader is always prepared for PvP to happen. The host is not. It's entirely possible to go through the entire PvE game with a PvP-unfriendly build (hello sorcery) and have invasions be nothing but frustrating. It's possible to stick yourself in a corner for five minutes so you can go handle the laundry and come back to a lost ember and a level to re-clear. It's possible to be a person who hates PvP and intentionally doesn't summon hordes of friendly phantoms because you'd prefer the PvP segment of your day to be over as soon as humanly possible. I'm not saying this perfectly balances the invader/host disparity or means PvP should be skewed more toward hosts. But when you're defending invading you should remember that your playstyle is not the only one that exists and calling people whiners for having a different playstyle is pure silliness.
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May 3, 2016 16:58
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Melanion posted:It's possible to stick yourself in a corner for five minutes so you can go handle the laundry and come back to a lost ember and a level to re-clear. literally nobody should be having this issue because if you need to afk you can "quit game" and when you load back in you'll be right where you logged out if this does happen, its really your fault
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May 3, 2016 16:59
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Melanion posted:Everyone who continually lists a host's advantages misses an extremely significant invader advantage. If you're embered you should be prepared and ready for an invasion. That's kind of the point.
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May 3, 2016 17:01
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What does the host need to do to be "prepared" for PvP?
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May 3, 2016 17:05
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Oxxidation posted:This seems disingenuous, since invaders can and often do hit solo players as well. I like to stay Embered just for the health boost, personally. Hardly disingenuous since I address that in the second paragraph of that post you quoted. I don't get very many solo host invasions (after all, the game tries to invade anyone with a phantom first), probably fewer than fifteen percent. I may actually start tracking that. I've played through the entire game on my current character three times without summoning, embered the entire way. I got maybe ten invasions total, including Watchdog and Aldrich Faithful invaders. You're still at an advantage against an invader as a solo host. You have more HP and double the healing. The one boon invaders get can be negated with a renewable item (Seed of a Tree of Giants). And again, if somebody doesn't enjoy getting invaded, they can utilize one of several strategies to avoid engaging the invader -- run to the fog door, summon phantoms, play hide and seek, whatever.
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May 3, 2016 17:06
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Anybody else miss the Small White Soapstone? I find that I really liked being able to help clear a tough PvE area for a dinky reward and then NOT having to go all the way to the boss. I can park my Big Sign outside the fog door for that.Melanion posted:Everyone who continually lists a host's advantages misses an extremely significant invader advantage. Yo I agree with most of what you're saying but this is dumb as gently caress, all you have to do is quit to the title screen and loading (at least on PC) is super quick.
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