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FAUXTON posted:I'm imagining an F-4 Phantom just cruising past a loving Zero at Mach 2 and torching the drat thing with its exhaust. Turbulence would probably gently caress it up more than the exhaust.
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May 4, 2016 14:52
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| # ? May 23, 2024 18:46 |
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F-14 vs. Zero: http://youtu.be/f3XNEWtJF0o
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May 4, 2016 15:56
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You know what's weird is by date of introduction the zero and F-14 are closer together on a timeline than we are to the F-14.
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May 4, 2016 16:06
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Thanks for all the kind words about George, I'm sure he would have been very embarrassed about them. Sorry too that the last, and very short, instalment of his story has been so long coming. But here it is: Baker the Last: The “purblind prank that fate would play" George has returned home, but things are not all as they should be in this new post-war world. It’s April 1919 and his family have spent a solid three years lying to all and sundry about where George has been. With extremely limited contact over the years - a choice made on both sides - George has been firmly placed out of the loop, and catching up on his family’s wartime experiences is an unpleasant affair. Let’s see what they’ve been up to: Olga - George’s sister has been teaching in a primary school, but “has known tragic sorrow”. He doesn’t spell it out clearly, but George mentions “the several English men who, while in khaki, were converted to pacifism and shot for refusing to obey military orders against the dictates of conscience”. Her fiancee was a “military medallist of my hometown whose death at the hands of a firing party honoured humanity”. I can’t find him - but there’s an interesting story there, I’m sure. Dad - “He looked older, thinner, sterner. He said “So you are back, son?” I said, “yes Dad” and held out my hand. His own hands were behind his back; he did not seem to notice mine. I understood. I dropped my arm to my side” Cyril - George’s brother meets him “noisy and exuberantly glad” but fills him in that the family have “evaded” questions on what George was up to, leaving him “in no doubt as to whether my mother had been forced to lie to hide my shame as she considered it. I imagined what it must have cost her, puritan as she was, if she had lied indeed that this shameful secret might be kept...” Mother - “my mother looked older and tinier. She was glad but very quiet.” The little brown slip of a girl - has gone, “married to another”, and that’s all George has to say about it. George tries to have a restful recuperation before looking for work, but to no avail. His mother watches him nervously, “growing distressed each time that she watched me thus”, and quietly resents him as she has “anguished and evaded and lied, while I had merely gone an easy, jesting way. She saw my shuffle and grew distressed to think that others, seeing it also, would guess in what place I had got into the habit of shuffling”. Both his mother and father keep him at a distance, but it’s his father that clearly articulates how ashamed they are of him. He has spent the war as part of the Home Defence Force, too old for conscription, but firmly patriotically keen to have done his bit. He treats his “coward, skunk” son as a stranger, and George keenly feels the rejection when it becomes clear that “My father was lost to me”. Two months later, his mother is dead. His father and family distant from him, He feels free, feels the sorrow and sadness of absolute freedom and ends his story: “He is strongest who stands most alone” Queer, too, how little comfort there is in such strength. No matter. I was strong. I was free. I was free!... Free... Free? I slept.” Postscript: “In an office on the first floor of a corner building in Cheapside, London, the calendars marked the date as November the 14th, 1921. The hands of the office clock pointed to five-and-twenty minutes past nine. The morning was yellow with a slowly lifting fog, which pressed opaquely against the office windows. The telephone bell rang. I jumped from my desk, and snatched at the receiver with a hand that trembled. “Central XXXX?” Speaking “Is Mr George Baker there?” Speaking “This is Queen Charlotte’s Hospital” Yes? Yes! Oh God, for God’s sake, yes! Yes! “Your son was born early this morning Mr Baker” Thank God! Are they both well? “Yes, both well” Thank god! Goodbye and thank you! I put down the receiver and turned to Rowland Essex, my Chief. “A boy!” I said, and found it hard to say it. “All well?” he asked, twinkling at me. “yes! All’s well!” I mumbled. He smiled, said words that I did not hear; I rushed from the office, lest I should make a fool of myself in public. In private I made a fool of myself. So passed the Skunk. He had become a father.” Research: I know very little about George beyond what’s in his Autobiography and in official (and patchy) records, but I can string a few facts together to create a narrative of what I think happened next. George attends the No-Conscription Fellowship’s Residential Celebratory Camp in November 1919, and there meets a fellow CO called Richard Robert Hatton, who has had similar experiences during the war. Perhaps they have a chat, compare notes, discuss poetry or socialism, or Dulwich, where George has recently moved. A year later, George marries Richard's sister, Ann. On November 14th 1921, his story comes full circle back to the climax of his narrative, when his son is born in Queen Charlotte’s hospital at 9am, early enough in the morning that the sun rises beyond the maternity ward, it's Windows looking out on his first and most terrible prison. He considers his life to have been lived in the "Shadow of the Scrubs" but for George the high point will always be that first moment when he cast his shadow over it. That’s all I can find, except the last date: George Baker, 1894-1960 I still think we would have been friends. lenoon fucked around with this message at 16:28 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 16:19
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bewbies posted:You know what's weird is by date of introduction the zero and F-14 are closer together on a timeline than we are to the F-14. And Alexander the Great was closer to the construction of the pyramids of Giza than we are to the completion of the f-35
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May 4, 2016 16:24
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MrMojok posted:F-14 vs. Zero: The Zero (well, the T-6 made to look like a Zero) almost kills the Tomcat in one shot. Watch starting at 2:40 in that clip, he stalls hard, throws the throttles forward, and only has 100' of altitude left when he pulls out of the dive. It's like in Civilization when a militia unit manages to kill a battleship. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 17:11 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 17:08
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Mycroft Holmes posted:Post them.
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May 4, 2016 18:35
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feedmegin posted:Ehhh, not really. Ramming was still viewed as a thing in the 19th century, especially after the Monitor vs Merrimack/Virginia fight in the US Civil War where neither side's firearms could dent the other's armour, whereas Merrimack rammed the gently caress out of the USS Cumberland. Ramming was still around, but when a ship that was only designed to be able to ram goes up against one that is fully decked out with cannons, it's barely a contest. The ship with cannons can finish the fight before its enemies can even close the distance. Lances are another matter entirely, unless you're suggesting that people in boats wielded them while paddling around eachother.
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May 4, 2016 19:10
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SlothfulCobra posted:Ramming was still around, but when a ship that was only designed to be able to ram goes up against one that is fully decked out with cannons, it's barely a contest. The ship with cannons can finish the fight before its enemies can even close the distance. Like, uh, the Monitor did? You're right if we're talking about 1900, but there was a window of a decade or two in the 19th century, before armour-piercing shells were a big thing, where this was simply not true.
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May 4, 2016 19:21
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MrMojok posted:F-14 vs. Zero: Supposing the entire '70s US aircraft fleet has to bomb an Imperial Japanese island, is there an actual need to establish air superiority? Could a bunch of Zeros actually intercept bombers that travel at twice the speed they do?
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May 4, 2016 19:49
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SlothfulCobra posted:Ramming was still around, but when a ship that was only designed to be able to ram goes up against one that is fully decked out with cannons, it's barely a contest. The ship with cannons can finish the fight before its enemies can even close the distance. The relevant point there isn't firepower, though, it was range - and it didn't really come around until the era of really big guns in the early 20th century. When your enemy can bombard you from 8 miles away, and can continue to bombard you while moving away from you about as fast as you can move toward them, ramming is dead as a tactic...and so are a great many other things, like "smaller guns". Even then, it was as much a doctrinal evolution as a technological one, since even after big guns became the norm it took some time for navies to really grasp the importance of training their gunners for that sort of extreme-range engagements.
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May 4, 2016 19:57
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Supposing the entire '70s US aircraft fleet has to bomb an Imperial Japanese island, is there an actual need to establish air superiority? Could a bunch of Zeros actually intercept bombers that travel at twice the speed they do? Didn't someone already do this in CMANO?
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May 4, 2016 20:04
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Supposing the entire '70s US aircraft fleet has to bomb an Imperial Japanese island, is there an actual need to establish air superiority? Could a bunch of Zeros actually intercept bombers that travel at twice the speed they do? If you're not too bothered about precision you could just send waves of B-52s in, no chance any IJN/IJA aircraft can reach the necessary height to intercept them.
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May 4, 2016 21:24
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lenoon posted:
Just wanted to say thank you for that. It is a good story. Is there anything at all about what he made of WWII? Called the girl, though.
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May 4, 2016 21:26
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lenoon posted:Thanks for all the kind words about George, I'm sure he would have been very embarrassed about them. Thank you for all of this.
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May 4, 2016 21:44
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I was reading the other day about a t-34 ramming a panther at Kursk, did this poo poo actually happen or was it just a a mistake because of lovely optics on the t-34. Assuming they rammed other tanks, seems like a very Russian thing to do.
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May 4, 2016 21:55
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Flipswitch posted:I was reading the other day about a t-34 ramming a panther at Kursk, did this poo poo actually happen or was it just a a mistake because of lovely optics on the t-34. Assuming they rammed other tanks, seems like a very Russian thing to do. Ramming tanks was intentional, but a lot rarer than people assume. I also read a Hero of the Soviet Union award order where a guy destroyed an enemy train by ramming it with his tank which was on fire. Edit: while tank on tank ramming was rare, ramming smaller things like AT guns in order to preserve ammo was more common. Ensign Expendable fucked around with this message at 22:09 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 22:06
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Jesus, wouldn't want to be in that tank when hit. Do you have a link at all to the train ram award? that sounds pretty 
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May 4, 2016 22:18
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Flipswitch posted:I was reading the other day about a t-34 ramming a panther at Kursk, did this poo poo actually happen or was it just a a mistake because of lovely optics on the t-34. Assuming they rammed other tanks, seems like a very Russian thing to do. Also, as a minor nitpick, soviet optics were usually of high quality or at the very least weren't much worse than their equivalents in other armies. The major benefit german optics had wasn't glass quality or magnification but a user-friendly range marking system. OTOH the commander-gunner arrangement probably meant the full range of optics got way less use...
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May 4, 2016 22:25
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Flipswitch posted:Jesus, wouldn't want to be in that tank when hit. Do you have a link at all to the train ram award? that sounds pretty I talk about it a bit here. I'll translate the award order when I get home.
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May 4, 2016 22:27
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spectralent posted:Also, as a minor nitpick, soviet optics were usually of high quality or at the very least weren't much worse than their equivalents in other armies. The major benefit german optics had wasn't glass quality or magnification but a user-friendly range marking system. OTOH the commander-gunner arrangement probably meant the full range of optics got way less use... I think they also tended to have pretty good fields of vision, but not a huge difference.
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May 4, 2016 22:46
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SlothfulCobra posted:Ramming was still around, but when a ship that was only designed to be able to ram goes up against one that is fully decked out with cannons, it's barely a contest. The ship with cannons can finish the fight before its enemies can even close the distance. Ramming can still be a viable naval tactic if you approach from the right direction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehime_Maru_and_USS_Greeneville_collision
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May 4, 2016 22:50
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Ensign Expendable posted:Ramming tanks was intentional, but a lot rarer than people assume. I also read a Hero of the Soviet Union award order where a guy destroyed an enemy train by ramming it with his tank which was on fire. <insert "drive_me_closer_i_want_to_hit_them_with_my_sword_meme.jpg" here>`
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May 4, 2016 22:59
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kill me now posted:Ramming can still be a viable naval tactic if you approach from the right direction Especially against U-Boats! quote:After the ramming, Borie was high-centered on top of U-405, and until they separated, exchanges of small arms fire took place. This was a unique battle: unlike most other modern naval battles, it was decided by ramming and small arms fire at extremely close range. Borie's 24-inch spotlight kept the submarine illuminated throughout the following battle, except for brief periods when it was turned off for tactical reasons.
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May 4, 2016 23:15
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spectralent posted:Also, as a minor nitpick, soviet optics were usually of high quality or at the very least weren't much worse than their equivalents in other armies. The major benefit german optics had wasn't glass quality or magnification but a user-friendly range marking system. OTOH the commander-gunner arrangement probably meant the full range of optics got way less use... Do you have a good source on that? I don't doubt that their optics were competent, but German glass grinding facilities were widely considered to be really top notch in the early 20th century. It's also noteworthy that optics plants were one of the big targets when the Soviets hauled industrial equipment back east as war reparations. Zeiss was pretty much picked up and moved wholesale, with the microscope and camera branches going to two different locations.
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May 4, 2016 23:24
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loving stupid loving browser or cloud forums or whatever double post
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May 4, 2016 23:24
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Cyrano4747 posted:Do you have a good source on that? I don't doubt that their optics were competent, but German glass grinding facilities were widely considered to be really top notch in the early 20th century. It's also noteworthy that optics plants were one of the big targets when the Soviets hauled industrial equipment back east as war reparations. Zeiss was pretty much picked up and moved wholesale, with the microscope and camera branches going to two different locations. I have the Soviet QA checklist for tank and armoured car optics, if there's an equivalent German document somewhere out there it would be easy to compare.
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May 4, 2016 23:35
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Flipswitch posted:Jesus, wouldn't want to be in that tank when hit. Do you have a link at all to the train ram award? that sounds pretty Done Zamboni Apocalypse posted:<insert "drive_me_closer_i_want_to_hit_them_with_my_sword_meme.jpg" here>` 
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May 4, 2016 23:56
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Wow, it's as good as I hoped it would be
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May 5, 2016 00:00
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Best photo of a nagant revolver in action ever.
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May 5, 2016 00:13
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Was looking for a photo I remember seeing quite often, with a T-34 that rammed a PaK 37 but broke down(?) in the process and stumble across this old gem. The T-34/88 
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May 5, 2016 00:15
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Was looking for a photo I remember seeing quite often, with a T-34 that rammed a PaK 37 but broke down(?) in the process and stumble across this old gem. I love everyone just giving it the most  look.
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May 5, 2016 00:18
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Cyrano4747 posted:Do you have a good source on that? I don't doubt that their optics were competent, but German glass grinding facilities were widely considered to be really top notch in the early 20th century. It's also noteworthy that optics plants were one of the big targets when the Soviets hauled industrial equipment back east as war reparations. Zeiss was pretty much picked up and moved wholesale, with the microscope and camera branches going to two different locations. From the Aberdeen trials: "Consensus: the gun sights are the best in the world. Incomparable to any currently known worldwide or currently developed in America." From EE's site, "Overall Impressions", here: http://tankarchives.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/aberdeen-t-34-and-kv-1-test.html I've seen it repeated in several other places that the soviet optics were considered very high quality devices in those trials, as well.
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May 5, 2016 00:19
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Cyrano4747 posted:I love everyone just giving it the most Tank abominations like that are probably my favorite 
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May 5, 2016 00:25
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feedmegin posted:Like, uh, the Monitor did? You're right if we're talking about 1900, but there was a window of a decade or two in the 19th century, before armour-piercing shells were a big thing, where this was simply not true. No, I'm talking about the 16th century, you're talking about the 19th. The Monitor still had guns; ramming was not the primary purpose of the vehicle. It was not the same thing as the little ramming galleys propelled by oars that I am talking about. They were shown to be very obsolete at the battle of Diu, when the Portuguese rolled in with their big ships packed full of guns and devastated a numerically larger force. Just because later vessels rammed every now and then does not mean that 300 year old vessels are still cutting edge warfare.
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May 5, 2016 00:30
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Was looking for a photo I remember seeing quite often, with a T-34 that rammed a PaK 37 but broke down(?) in the process and stumble across this old gem. That's a photoshop.
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May 5, 2016 00:35
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 Shame. Good photoshop, though.
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May 5, 2016 00:38
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Yeah, but I want it to be real.
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May 5, 2016 00:57
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This entire post is awesome,.
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May 5, 2016 01:01
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That photoshop is basically The Man With The Tea; fairly transparent bollocks, but I want to believe it anyway. 100 Years Ago 27th April: General Townshend attempts to negotiate some kind of parole for his men despite being in just about the worst negotiating position. Halil, unsurprisingly, is not particularly interested in negotiating, and no amount of "don't you want to haggle?" pleading does any good. And it's Edward Mousley who suffers from hearing all the latrine rumours. There's a minor German gas attack at Hulluch; E.S. Thompson continues failing to drive to Arusha; the Sunny Subaltern is relieved as transport officer and will go up the line to Hooge tomorrow; Clifford Wells offers us a great chance for a running gag; and Maximilian Mugge muses idly upon military lexicography. 28th April: Edward Mousley tells the story of how that rear end in a top hat Townshend appears to have deliberately got his men's hopes up for parole despite knowing that the other side weren't interested, and also the last stand of Lieutenant Tudway, RN. Lt-Col Churchill decides he's had enough of living in a ditch in the middle of nowhere; there's not enough room for him, his servant, his alcohol supplies, and his ego. The Sunny Subaltern goes to Hooge and finds it's completely poo poo; Malcolm White does the 1916 equivalent of gushing about how great Xena: Warrior Princess is and also gives an inventory of different shell noises; and Maximilian Mugge listens to the old sweats of his camp spinning their yarns.
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May 5, 2016 02:16
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