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Jonas Albrecht posted:I'd love to know the amount she probably spent on social services via taxes. I could probably balance it on my fingertip. I think the more interesting question, is which government assistance programs does she use that she just hand waves away as being okay because obviously she needs it? 
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May 5, 2016 07:05
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Lots of things could happen for Hillary too. FBI comes out and says "no she did nothing wrong," someone could replace Trump's day glow orange spray with agent orange, isils cash flow issues turn into infighting, hurricane hits Florida... you just don't know. Safe bet is President Hillary at this moment in time.
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May 5, 2016 07:09
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Trump doesn't come off as all that smart to me, really. Like with the abortion thing--sure there's an incredible ignorance in not knowing what the party line is, but you'd think a smart person, if he really didn't know, would have the insight to say something along those lines anyway--we should punish the providers, defund PP, make it as rare as possible, etc.
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May 5, 2016 07:18
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porfiria posted:Trump doesn't come off as all that smart to me, really. Like with the abortion thing--sure there's an incredible ignorance in not knowing what the party line is, but you'd think a smart person, if he really didn't know, would have the insight to say something along those lines anyway--we should punish the providers, defund PP, make it as rare as possible, etc. There's a dozen social issues that Trump's enjoying the benefit of the doubt on because he hasn't been attacked on them yet, because the GOP are craven and spineless cowards who don't want to bring up stuff they're emphatically losing on. I have no doubt at all that once Clinton starts forcing him to take a position on things, he'll no doubt pick some position that's more head scratching and bad than we could all imagine. Especially since the general mood of the electorate won't accept "uhhhh state's rights" or "I prefer to focus on business things" as hand waves anymore
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May 5, 2016 07:23
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G-III posted:Lol at the sound bite of graham, the junior to strom loving thurmond, calling donald trump "race baiting" Now there's an idea. Zombie Strom Thurmond for VP
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May 5, 2016 07:34
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Setting aside why people want politicians who have no political experience, I started digging for a major party presidential nominee who has zero political or military experience. I quickly realized thanks to Taylor, Grant, Hancock, McClellan, Eisenhower et al. I'd have to add military service to the criteria, and the Founding Fathers are in a class of their own, obviously John Adams didn't have any experience as a governor or senator of a state, but I think being John Adams qualifies you to be President in 1800. (Ben Carson brought up the Founding Father angle on inexperience sometime during the primary, but you have to remember all the Founding Father presidents still served in their colonial or local legislatures, in the Continental Congress, or in the military.) The best I could come up with was Alton B. Parker who was the Democratic nominee in 1904 and who lost to T.R. very badly. He hadn't been in any political office, but he'd been elected to the New York Supreme Court. Horace Greeley was only in the House for three months. Out of candidates who got elected, the technocrat Herbert Hoover was Secretary of Commerce before his Presidency and had no experience in any elected office, and we saw how that turned out. 
Sulphagnist fucked around with this message at 07:45 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 07:41
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Yeah, Carson was nuts. John Adams was a delegate in the first and second Continental Congresses, served as ambassador to Holland, France, and the UK, negotiated the treaty that ended the Revolutionary War, and also spent two terms as Washington's VP before he was elected President. Washington was sort of a special case, but Adams had over 25 years of experience in politics before entering the Presidency.
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May 5, 2016 08:03
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The Founding Fathers were community organizers, you know who else was a community organizer?
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May 5, 2016 08:19
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CelestialScribe posted:Oh my god. For the last loving time. Trumps going to win and it will be because your posts aren't all-caps. Peztopiary fucked around with this message at 08:41 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 08:33
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Peztopiary posted:Trump's going to win and it will be because your posts aren't all-caps. NOT ON MY WATCH.
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May 5, 2016 08:41
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How was HW Bush as CIA Director? Any highlights/lowlights?
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May 5, 2016 08:44
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Tobermory posted:Yeah, Carson was nuts. John Adams was a delegate in the first and second Continental Congresses, served as ambassador to Holland, France, and the UK, negotiated the treaty that ended the Revolutionary War, and also spent two terms as Washington's VP before he was elected President. Washington was sort of a special case, but Adams had over 25 years of experience in politics before entering the Presidency. And even Washington was a delegate in the Continental Congresses and politically active in Virginia before the whole Commander in Chief thing.
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May 5, 2016 08:57
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gradenko_2000 posted:How was HW Bush as CIA Director? Any highlights/lowlights? He only had the job for like a year , but assume that since it was the 70s he probably knew about some shady poo poo.
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May 5, 2016 08:58
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Epic High Five posted:I think the more interesting question, is which government assistance programs does she use that she just hand waves away as being okay because obviously she needs it? I know it wasn't your main point probably, but... seriously? Where does every fourth person on welfare / food stamps think that money comes from?
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May 5, 2016 10:35
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Hollismason posted:He only had the job for like a year , but assume that since it was the 70s he probably knew about some shady poo poo. That was right after the Church Committee, so the CIA was frantically trying to clean up their image after having all their dirty laundry aired before Congress and the media. In terms of lowlights, Bush was running the CIA while it was up to some truly reprehensible poo poo in Angola. Edit: I never really thought about it before, but Bush was the one who allegedly began using Israel to illegally funnel weapons into the Angolan proxy war with the USSR. Ten years later, he was VP when the Reagan administration got caught doing the same thing in Iran. Tobermory fucked around with this message at 11:03 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 10:49
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Mezzanine posted:I know it wasn't your main point probably, but... seriously? Where does every fourth person on welfare / food stamps think that money comes from? Either they don't recognize it as one because the actual name of the program isn't what they've heard pundits rail against, like not realizing SNAP is food stamps, or they've rationalized that it's not really a social program in their case, but their just due unlike all those other moochers. Like a lot people don't think social security is a social program because they think of it as getting their, and only their, money back, like the government just takes that chunk of your paycheck and puts it in it's own little savings account until your 66.
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May 5, 2016 10:55
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there wolf posted:Either they don't recognize it as one because the actual name of the program isn't what they've heard pundits rail against, like not realizing SNAP is food stamps, or they've rationalized that it's not really a social program in their case, but their just due unlike all those other moochers. Like a lot people don't think social security is a social program because they think of it as getting their, and only their, money back, like the government just takes that chunk of your paycheck and puts it in it's own little savings account until your 66. It's this one btw, for food stamps at least The rest are just people being idiots or willfully ignorant because it literally says stuff like "tax credit" or "deduction" in the name
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May 5, 2016 11:03
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CelestialScribe posted:Oh my god. For the last loving time. you need to get a grip because at this rate you are going to stroke out before november Nostalgia4Infinity fucked around with this message at 11:30 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 11:27
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Epic High Five posted:It's this one btw, for food stamps at least
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May 5, 2016 11:39
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All tax is theft because *vomits profusely.*
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May 5, 2016 11:44
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Inferior Third Season posted:If you accept the framing that taxes are the government taking money that is rightfully entirely yours (whether or not you go so far as to call it "theft"), then it makes sense that tax credits and deductions wouldn't be considered government benefits. You wouldn't consider someone you walk by on the street to be benefitting you, just because they didn't take the opportunity to rob you. Things like programs where they literally give you money for having a mortgage definitely is though In cases of people with negative income tax percentages it manages to both simply be not having money taken from them AND getting a handout
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May 5, 2016 11:46
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Epic High Five posted:Things like programs where they literally give you money for having a mortgage definitely is though quote:In cases of people with negative income tax percentages it manages to both simply be not having money taken from them AND getting a handout
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May 5, 2016 12:11
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The government really needs to do some PSAs about these programs or maybe some better branding. If every check or EBT card had something like USAID style branding on it, maybe fewer people would be so clueless. The alternative would be proper government classes in High School that spend a good amount of time focusing on how the government actually affects their daily lives. Maybe they can just get rid of the stuff about how a bill becomes a law as that information seems less and less relevant.
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May 5, 2016 12:37
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You'll run into the problem of people not wanting to learn because gently caress poor people. Also give me my social security cola dambnabit.
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May 5, 2016 12:39
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Mauser posted:The government really needs to do some PSAs about these programs or maybe some better branding. If every check or EBT card had something like USAID style branding on it, maybe fewer people would be so clueless. "We already have to spend our hard-earned tax dollars on giving food and shelter to poor people, and now you want to spend that money on marketing it?!"
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May 5, 2016 12:40
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Not to mention a proper understanding of value and fiat currency isn't in the interest of the rich and powerful. Convincing proles to kill each other over pieces of paper and flags is a proven system.
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May 5, 2016 12:41
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Antti posted:The best I could come up with was Alton B. Parker who was the Democratic nominee in 1904 and who lost to T.R. very badly. He hadn't been in any political office, but he'd been elected to the New York Supreme Court. Ironically, this is less impressive than it sounds - in NY, the Supreme Court is the lowest level court of general jurisdiction (equivalent to a district court in the federal system.) He was on the Court of Appeals, though, which is the NY equivalent of a Supreme Court.
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May 5, 2016 12:47
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Kalman posted:Ironically, this is less impressive than it sounds - in NY, the Supreme Court is the lowest level court of general jurisdiction (equivalent to a district court in the federal system.) And looking more closely the Chief of Court of Appeals was an elected position too. So he actually ran in a statewide election and won.
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May 5, 2016 12:49
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PhazonLink posted:The Founding Fathers were community organizers, you know who else was a community organizer? Best part of 2008 was the smug liberals going, "Pontius Pilate was a governor, Jesus was a community organizer."
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May 5, 2016 12:51
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cheerfullydrab posted:Best part of 2008 was the smug liberals going, "Pontius Pilate was a governor, Jesus was a community organizer." You don't see anyone worshipping Pilate anywhere, do you
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May 5, 2016 13:02
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I am sorry if this is derailing into Primarychat, but I am genuinely surprised that Ted Cruz dropped out of the race after Indiana's primary. I thought Cruz's megalomaniac pride and ego would have kept him going to the bitter end if it meant a death struggle between him and Trump for the GOP presidential nomination. Or maybe it was that pride that kept him from running any further since it would embarrass him later and hurt his titanic ego? Who knows? 
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May 5, 2016 13:03
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He probably ran out of money and his campaign's math showed that losing Indiana meant he was DOA on the first ballot. I presume he also got some kind of signal from the GOPe that they won't let him ratfuck Trump through RNC rules committee shenanigans.
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May 5, 2016 13:04
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Epic High Five posted:Before this cycle the young, up and coming future of the GOP were: Before this kicked off, there were only two rising stars. Rubio who managed to show the entire nation why the state of Florida loving hates his lazy rear end. and Nikki Haley, who is going to be the 2020 nominee for whats left of the smoking ruins of the the republican party. There were no others. Jindal was dead man walking behind the curtains because of his absolute incompetence in, well, anything. Jindal can't piss on the ground. Walker was never an up and comer for the party, This is a guy who faced a recall as a governor. No one likes him. Jeb was thrown out there because his last name is Bush. He didn't want to be president, he didnt want to run. But going to Christmas dinner, you do it so your mother won't bitch at you.
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May 5, 2016 13:11
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Also paging Joementum for his thoughts on Trump becoming the presumptive GOP presidential nominee.
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May 5, 2016 13:13
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Antti posted:He probably ran out of money and his campaign's math showed that losing Indiana meant he was DOA on the first ballot. I presume he also got some kind of signal from the GOPe that they won't let him ratfuck Trump through RNC rules committee shenanigans. It's either this or he's honestly stupid enough to try to score points with Trump by handing the race to the Orange Overlord. Cruz might even be so spectacularly dumb that he's angling for the VP nod.
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May 5, 2016 13:20
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Scott Walker was definitely a rising star. A GOP Governor that won both a recall and a re-election and is nationally known for beating Democrats and instituting conservative policy in what was seen as a labor friendly state. He was moneyed interest's attempt to throw money at a guy and make him their Presidential puppet. Luckily for the country he was a huge loser and looked goofy so no one outside of Wisconsin suburbs fell for it.
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May 5, 2016 13:22
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Cerebral Bore posted:It's either this or he's honestly stupid enough to try to score points with Trump by handing the race to the Orange Overlord. Cruz might even be so spectacularly dumb that he's angling for the VP nod. Trump/Cruz would be a helluva ticket. Whereas the Romney/Ryan ticket in 2012 was a sly yet shallowly underhanded attempt to get conservative policies implemented, Trump/Cruz would be blatantly in-your-face gently caress-you-got-mine Über Conservatism.
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May 5, 2016 13:24
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Radish posted:Scott Walker was definitely a rising star. A GOP Governor that won both a recall and a re-election and is nationally known for beating Democrats and instituting conservative policy in what was seen as a labor friendly state. He was moneyed interest's attempt to throw money at a guy and make him their Presidential puppet. Luckily for the country he was a huge loser and looked goofy so no one outside of Wisconsin suburbs fell for it. He was a great gop candidate: empty suit stuffed with Koch cash.
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May 5, 2016 13:25
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Trump/Cruz would be a helluva ticket. Whereas the Romney/Ryan ticket in 2012 was a sly yet shallowly underhanded attempt to get conservative policies implemented, Trump/Cruz would be blatantly in-your-face gently caress-you-got-mine Über Conservatism. Even without the incredibly bitter knife fight that the Trump/Cruz nomination battle devolved into between the two of them, I can't even imagine Cruz accepting a place on a ticket that doesn't involve his name coming first.
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May 5, 2016 13:33
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Trump needs some moderate cred for his sharp pivot to the center. Trump/Romney 2016
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May 5, 2016 13:35
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