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From yesterday evening in the Beta forum:Sarah Jane Avory posted:I'm changing the shield-down behavior, making AI ships more aggressive and fight more. They'll have a random chance to flee, but will flee until out of range or they fall inside your firing cone. They won't flee if your shield is down or low. Hopefully this should make people happier. Also this seems like a pretty legit criticism of the current Engineers progression system. The thread has a bunch of posts from Frontier devs too: brown sea posted:In order to gain rep with an Engineer beyond grade 1 mods, you cannot take missions from them, but have to buy a lot of their mods. You cannot use or sell these mods, you have to throw them and the invested materials away, as you typically only need 4 or 5 mods from one engineer. Unfortunately it doesn't look like we'll be able to integrate missions into the engineer system in a meaningful way any time soon so it's probably not going to be updated at all during the beta." Good Dumplings posted:At that point you're not especially realistic anyway, since you have ships that somehow have a power source that can generate relativistic amounts of energy and are armored enough to not be torn apart just moving at those speeds. Most likely those ships would be zipping around like flies on crack at anything remotely near the 1000-km scale, and the main limit to their tactical maneuverability would be the maximum force their crews could take before passing out/crushed into paste. At the same time, there's enough space in a solar system to set up countless orbitals and space stations, only Earth is known to be habitable so you have a point of conflict, and you have maybe a dozen regions to focus on as opposed to a thousand different stars all over the place. You could definitely set a whole game in our own single solar system - it's massive, plenty of room for megastructures and industrial infrastructure of all kinds! El Grillo fucked around with this message at 21:03 on May 7, 2016 |
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May 7, 2016 20:50
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El Grillo posted:Would love for E:D to have Orbitals, not just 'small' stations positioned in planet orbits. I mean, yeah, sure. You'd need some form of FTL travel within a solar system for sure, and there's more than enough room for a whole bunch of things. I'd figure a game like that would look a lot like let's say a "Firefly" simulator or "The Expanse" simulator, not deeply centered on space combat but on away missions, boarding actions, exploring derelict wrecks in EVA suits and scavenging abandoned space stations or mining facilities. Never gonna happen, but it's a cool concept. I assume everyone itt is nerd enough to have seen "The Expanse" so you know what I'm talking about.
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May 7, 2016 21:06
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So apparently not only do I need to search the galaxy to find these micro resources for an Engineer upgrade, but there is a chance my time could be wasted by a bad RNG roll?  There is not even a hint about where to get any of this stuff for the FSD range upgrade. On a semi-related note, does anyone know precisely how much jump range I need to get into NGC 7822?
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May 7, 2016 21:12
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Nice piece of fish posted:I mean, yeah, sure. You'd need some form of FTL travel within a solar system for sure, and there's more than enough room for a whole bunch of things. I'd figure a game like that would look a lot like let's say a "Firefly" simulator or "The Expanse" simulator, not deeply centered on space combat but on away missions, boarding actions, exploring derelict wrecks in EVA suits and scavenging abandoned space stations or mining facilities. I'm thinking waaay more like Zone of the Enders, where the ships are moving so fast your eyes can just barely follow; you're a tiny but essential gear in a godlike machine that only needs you because despite its speed you still think faster than it can ever move. I mean, yeah there could be derelicts and stuff, but there's enough resources to just build another 50 stations to replace the one that got blown up by that laser barrage from Ganymede the other week, and the real question is where you're going to get the soy to feed all the people that'll man the 3 replacement stations you're actually going to build (unless you're Earth in which case you're Crusader Kings-ing it up). Good Dumplings fucked around with this message at 21:18 on May 7, 2016 |
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May 7, 2016 21:13
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(qne)
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May 7, 2016 21:17
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Nice piece of fish posted:I mean, yeah, sure. You'd need some form of FTL travel within a solar system for sure, and there's more than enough room for a whole bunch of things. I'd figure a game like that would look a lot like let's say a "Firefly" simulator or "The Expanse" simulator, not deeply centered on space combat but on away missions, boarding actions, exploring derelict wrecks in EVA suits and scavenging abandoned space stations or mining facilities.
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May 7, 2016 21:26
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El Grillo posted:Also this seems like a pretty legit criticism of the current Engineers progression system. The thread has a bunch of posts from Frontier devs too: *record scratch* Wait, really? In order to build rep to get the higher ranked upgrades which you actually want, you have to burn your resources to repeatedly reroll lower ranked upgrades? If you're going to be at the mercy of the RNG to actually source the specific resources you're looking for, having to burn those resources uselessly to grind rep is kind of twisting the knife. A related concern I had with that has to do with limited resource storage. It makes sense for synthesis so you can't just spam recipes from a huge stockpile. However, if you have to choose between keeping resources you may need in the future (and can't source directly) and dumping them to make room for the stuff you're actually trying to collect at the time, that's going to be really sucky. I'd propose a resource + commodities bank you can only access at stations, but clearly it's not in the cards for 2.1.
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May 7, 2016 21:29
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timn posted:*record scratch* The system is basically crafting. Make 10 white daggers to make a green dagger and pray to RNJesus you get the prefix/suffix you want.
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May 7, 2016 21:40
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Xae posted:The system is basically crafting. How much grind is there to get a Vorpal Mining Laser +6?
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May 7, 2016 21:49
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It depends on how the dice rolls shake out!
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May 7, 2016 21:50
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Tippis posted:How much grind is there to get a Vorpal Mining Laser +6? Well remember that you can get the +6 on attack, but you also roll a D6 on -damage. Then to get Vorpal you'll need to roll a special effect (25%) then hope for Vorpal (10%). So you need to craft about So a 1/6 x (.25 x .1) So you have about a .16% chance per roll. So at a 99.84% chance of not getting your perfect +6 Vorpal you'll need to roll it 50 times to get about a 10% chance. Edit: This poo poo is all made up. Don't spaz out about anything. The whole system is junk to be honest. The most interesting and useful part are the special effects and those are pure RNG.
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May 7, 2016 22:03
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I… I was just trying to make an oblique joke about how the RNG would always give the best bonuses to items that don't need them. 
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May 7, 2016 22:08
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They need to make random rolls make a module into the mining lance. Enjoy your booby prize!
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May 7, 2016 22:15
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They need to take random rolls and shove them up their own rear end.
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May 7, 2016 22:15
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Grinding low tier upgrades kind of make sense from a new player's perspective, where they're getting new ships fairly often and kind of progressing their engineer reputation as they try out different weapons and so on. For someone who has had the game since launch trying to get their new guns and leave, not so much.
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May 7, 2016 22:44
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Strategic Tea posted:Grinding low tier upgrades kind of make sense from a new player's perspective, where they're getting new ships fairly often and kind of progressing their engineer reputation as they try out different weapons and so on. At least they put some surprising elements in, like FSDs who charge faster. I never even thought about that! The best upgrade I could find so far (Felicity Farseer), can bring down your jump timer from 10 to 2,5 seconds! So you actually have a choice: Do you want more jump range, or same range as normal, but blindingly fast jumps?
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May 7, 2016 22:57
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Libluini posted:At least they put some surprising elements in, like FSDs who charge faster. I never even thought about that! The best upgrade I could find so far (Felicity Farseer), can bring down your jump timer from 10 to 2,5 seconds! But then you're still staring at the loading screen for a minute.
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May 7, 2016 22:59
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Xae posted:But then you're still staring at the loading screen for a minute. I'm hoping they deal with that before the beta is over. But yeah, even in the stable 2.0 build you get the occasional "long jumps". Still, cutting out 7,5 seconds per jump piles up fast.
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May 7, 2016 23:01
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I can't wait for after the beta and coriolis.io updates so you can craft all the spells onto your ship for crazy builds.
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May 7, 2016 23:03
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Like many, I would be more excited about all these custom elements if we had some proper method of permanent storage of equipment to readily swap in and out of whatever you are flying at the time. Or at least have it permanently unlocked as a credits option if you fly out to who you bought it from in the first place. As it is, even a "newer" player is probably going to have to leave behind many custom toys that they spent far more time trying to unlock in the first place, than it would take to get a much better ship in the first place. "So my tricked out Adder is nice and all, but I' finally decided to try out a cobra. Welp, time to abandon my fancy thrusters. Can I at least get an extra chromed up medium multicannon?... no I can go gently caress myself and roll the dice again?" Hopefully the dev comments about keeping awkwardness in mind turn out. Because as cool as these things are, a newer player is likely going to be much better served just moving up through normal equipment than stopping to try and trick out their very first I Eagle. Particularly as it would be far easier to get all the materials needed to MAKE the custom toys done with bigger ships, even if you wanted to trick out a smaller one. Section Z fucked around with this message at 23:17 on May 7, 2016 |
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May 7, 2016 23:14
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Don't know if any of you played Air Rivals back in the day, but the crafting system sounds somewhat similar. The big difference is this game isn't a p2w. The best weapons required money spent to improve, and the more you improved them, the higher the chance the weapon would "break" and be gone forever.
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May 7, 2016 23:17
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Libluini posted:I'm hoping they deal with that before the beta is over. But yeah, even in the stable 2.0 build you get the occasional "long jumps". Still, cutting out 7,5 seconds per jump piles up fast.
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May 7, 2016 23:17
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Pilchenstein posted:I'm guessing it's that or extra range though, not both? Uh yes, that's what I wrote a post earlier. Fast charging FSD, high range FSD, super-armored FSD. That's the options. You can only take one.
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May 7, 2016 23:19
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It is. On the other hand, that's also 7.5 seconds less you're getting shot at when you're being fired upon after an interdiction - and if it's an actual multiplier, it's 75% off whatever time you'd normally spend bogged down thanks to the mass shadow of a big ship. Not so useful for exploration, extremely useful for anyone who wants to GTFO ASAP from a potentially hairy situation.
Drake_263 fucked around with this message at 23:24 on May 7, 2016 |
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May 7, 2016 23:22
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I really like them buffing the boost mechanic. Makes the combat a little more fast paced and feels more like star citizen combat, which is a model that I at first didnt favor compared to elite, but have come to appreciate more due to its faster pace and higher skill cap. The greatly increased mission payments for smuggling are good. Money should be more easily acquired as the game is already too grindy for the amount of content it has. The AI buffs are good and I wish they would stick with the human like behavior model. Buying a big ship does not entitle you to killing every small ship you engage, especially when that ship can be 400ms faster than you are. This makes intelligent module targetting more worthwhile, as well as burst damage. Its funny how much whining there is about AI behaving as humans do, which indicates there might be an issue with gameplay and not so much with npc/player behavior. That said, because of the more challenging AI they should really increase bounty payouts by 4 or 5 times. And get rid of the boring and easy RES farming mechanic of the past and turn it into more challenging bounty hunting.
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May 7, 2016 23:24
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just think how awesome Robigo runs will be with that shorter jump time! 
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May 7, 2016 23:24
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Someone will probably  the gently caress out of the maths involved, but I feel like the increased FSD range mod will make travel faster for you over the sped-up FSD charge. You're still using x time per jump to orient yourself, y to maybe do a fuel scoop, and z to wait for your drive to cooldown - while with the upgraded FSD range you'll get by with fewer jumps overall.
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May 7, 2016 23:27
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nippythefish posted:just think how awesome Robigo runs will be with that shorter jump time! Even if they give a pay cut, I might actually try out Smuggling in general finally if that whole "Silent running now prevents scans" thing I saw mentioned makes it to live.
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May 7, 2016 23:28
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Too be fair, a fast charging FSD would be super useful when you're smuggling/trading and have to run from loving interdictions every other jump.
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May 7, 2016 23:33
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How much time does a cop scan take again? Because if you're big enough to not be bogged down by their mass, drat.
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May 7, 2016 23:36
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Don't think that some of the mission payouts will be permanent yet. Until the patch is hit and we see that 40 mill is possible they may patch it back down to the normal 4 mill or so a mission. I don't trust them to not patch it down because of the brown sea and it just being for beta to help the players gain cash fast and try out the new mission styles. However the new way the missions work is great and making the slaves unique will kill slave scumming. But not losing if scanned until you reach the system is a great mechanic.
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May 7, 2016 23:58
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I'll finally be able to pay for my ship insurance more than 3x over!
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May 8, 2016 00:02
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Fishreds99 posted:The AI buffs are good and I wish they would stick with the human like behavior model. Buying a big ship does not entitle you to killing every small ship you engage, especially when that ship can be 400ms faster than you are. This makes intelligent module targetting more worthwhile, as well as burst damage. Its funny how much whining there is about AI behaving as humans do, which indicates there might be an issue with gameplay and not so much with npc/player behavior. The buffs that make the enemies more dangerous to the player are good (better use of directional thrusters, using speed to create firing opportunities, etc.). The "buffs" that make them point their plane toward empty space and spam boost don't make them harder to fight; they make them harder to kill, and in a very tedious and boring manner. It effectively forces everybody into the PvP metagame of huge alpha strikes and wing composition roles (in a game that currently has no NPC winging capability). It may not be realistic for a damaged Eagle to try to fight a Vulture, but who cares? NPCs have nothing to lose, and this isn't some sort of military training simulator. There are some guys whining on the official forums that removing or toning down the flee mechanic will break their immersion because "a real person would just boost away," as if we haven't spent the entirety of gaming history playing with NPCs that favor fighting to the death over self-preservation. Does it break anybody's immersion in Dark Souls when an invader NPC fights the player to the death instead of sprinting away and hiding in a pack of enemies to bait aggro, like 90% of human invaders do? Did it ever break anybody's immersion in TIE Fighter when a damaged ship would continue to fight your base model TIE Fighter instead of effortlessly outrunning it? Was Shadow of the Colossus ruined because the colossi wouldn't just roll over or run their hand through their hair and kill you instantly? NPCs in space games are there to give players something to shoot. If you don't think that a Vulture should ever be able to kill a FdL without using the PvP alpha strike de jour or winging up with an interceptor, then just play exclusively in Open in populated areas and go nuts with that metagame. For PvE, that FdL should use its speed to do "boom and zoom" runs on you (they do this in beta, and it makes them much more interesting to fight!), but it shouldn't just run. That's effectively the developer saying "no more spaceship laser fighting for you, sorry; gotta keep it real."
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May 8, 2016 00:24
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Don't think that some of the mission payouts will be permanent yet. Until the patch is hit and we see that 40 mill is possible they may patch it back down to the normal 4 mill or so a mission. I don't trust them to not patch it down because of the brown sea and it just being for beta to help the players gain cash fast and try out the new mission styles. Can people test the new mission-system yet, though? I'm asking because I've been simply flying from engineer to engineer and the game crashes like clockwork every time I get near a planetary base. With the waiting for two sets of shaders doing their thing every time I log in, that tells me testing isn't really viable until we get a more stable build. Then again, I could just be the most unlucky man alive. 
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May 8, 2016 00:33
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Drake_263 posted:Someone will probably This, plus the previously mentioned time that you'll still lose to glitched load screens, plus the fact that increasing your range reduces travel time twice (it cuts the number of jumps you need to make over the same route, but it also frequently opens up better routes). You gotta get that double dip, girl. More range is an easy pick for explorers, even if you're just looking at reducing travel time and not considering the awesome ability to go places no ship has yet gone! The timer reduction is for scootin' the loving boot when you're under fire in the bubble, but I'm excited for that too. Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 00:49 on May 8, 2016 |
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May 8, 2016 00:45
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Shine posted:The buffs that make the enemies more dangerous to the player are good (better use of directional thrusters, using speed to create firing opportunities, etc.). The "buffs" that make them point their plane toward empty space and spam boost don't make them harder to fight; they make them harder to kill, and in a very tedious and boring manner. It effectively forces everybody into the PvP metagame of huge alpha strikes and wing composition roles (in a game that currently has no NPC winging capability). It may not be realistic for a damaged Eagle to try to fight a Vulture, but who cares? NPCs have nothing to lose, and this isn't some sort of military training simulator. If they had "real" mission types this could be fine though. Like, you get a bounty for clearing an area, or forcing them to flee, or just engaging an enemy and doing damage. Having to literally blow up countless other space-people has always been a gamey thing. If they want to add human behavior, they should give rewards for human outcomes. But if you just had to fight enemies until they quit the field, the flee mechanic could just offer bonuses; the drops and the like.
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May 8, 2016 00:53
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Your Loyal Vizier posted:This, plus the previously mentioned time that you'll still lose to glitched load screens, plus the fact that increasing your range reduces travel time twice (it cuts the number of jumps you need to make over the same route, but it also frequently opens up better routes). You gotta get that double dip, girl. More range is an easy pick for explorers, even if you're just looking at reducing travel time and not considering the awesome ability to go places no ship has yet gone! Does the range increase also increase fuel consumption?
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May 8, 2016 01:03
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Plek posted:If they had "real" mission types this could be fine though. Like, you get a bounty for clearing an area, or forcing them to flee, or just engaging an enemy and doing damage. Having to literally blow up countless other space-people has always been a gamey thing. If they want to add human behavior, they should give rewards for human outcomes. But if you just had to fight enemies until they quit the field, the flee mechanic could just offer bonuses; the drops and the like. That would be cool, yeah. Space Rangers 2 (FRONTIER PLEASE COPY) had missions like that, where you were tasked with preventing civilian deaths in an area for X amount of time, so if a pirate attacked a trader and you ran the pirate off, it contributed to your success and thus felt rewarding.
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May 8, 2016 01:14
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Conskill posted:Does the range increase also increase fuel consumption? The engineer I visited gave range increase by giving a bonus to mass optimization, so since mass also influences fuel consumption, the answer is a "maybe"? This reminds me, this also means heavier ships profit from this bonus probably a lot more than smaller and lighter ships. Does someone want to visit Felicity with a Cutter and a Courier to try this out and compare?
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May 8, 2016 01:19
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Shine posted:That would be cool, yeah. Space Rangers 2 (FRONTIER PLEASE COPY) had missions like that, where you were tasked with preventing civilian deaths in an area for X amount of time, so if a pirate attacked a trader and you ran the pirate off, it contributed to your success and thus felt rewarding. i think i have a boxed copy of this somewhere, if i can find it i'm going to send it to frontier fao davey brabes
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May 8, 2016 01:23
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